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Haswell boards and PCI crowding

Discussion in 'Motherboards & Memory' started by newconroer, Sep 19, 2013.

  1. newconroer

    newconroer

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    Anyone else notice that the Z87 Haswell boards are not very PCI friendly - not so much in the quantity of slots but the location? It's like every three out of four boards have the PCI slot on the wrong side of the PCI E lanes causing you to run out of space with using any normal sized GPU multi card setup.


    Is this a sign that I should be using a PCI E 1x sound card? Aren't most still PCI ?
  2. Fourstaff

    Fourstaff Moderator Staff Member

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    Yes its quite hard to find a slot for PCI now. I am pretty sure you can find one which has PCI on the "right" place, but you will need to look for the cheaper ones. Soundcards are migrating to PCIe precisely because of this reason, but as you pointed out there are a lot of good ones still on PCI.
    newconroer says thanks.
  3. newconroer

    newconroer

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    Yes, seems to be the way.
    Thanks for responding as I'll keep it in mind on the next build.
  4. Kursah

    Kursah

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    I've been using my Auzen PCIe x1 sound card since 2009, it wasn't long before then that pci-e sound cards were a newer thing. I think it kind of sucks that the PCI slot is going away with sooo many great PCI cards out there. The Creative X-Fi Xtreme Music being one of my favorite sounds cards of all time. I love my Auzen card, but I wouldn't own it if it weren't for the X-Fi Xtreme Music that sold me that add-in sound cards are amazing!
  5. JunkBear

    JunkBear

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    It is just an opinion guys but I am not an expert so just take it easy ok! IMO they started to get this problem after they developped the socket 775 able to get duocore and quadcore. The boards that can handle only single cores where mostly DDR1 or DDR2 but some people still had the PCI graphic and many PCI hardware like LAN, Firewire, USB and sound cards. When DDR2 boards came in with better onboard stuff they cutted down on the PCI slots.

    That's my explanation but hey...I could be wrong. :)
  6. newtekie1

    newtekie1 Semi-Retired Folder

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    PCI has been obsolete for almost 10 years, I think it is time to let it die.

    AFAIK, Z87 doesn't even have native PCI anymore, so the board makers have to use a PCIe -> PCI bridge chip. I'm surprised they even bother anymore.
    Crunching for Team TPU More than 25k PPD
  7. Frick

    Frick Fishfaced Nincompoop

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    Memory has nothing to do with it (well not much anyway, not as such), but yeah boards did get more and more stuff built in, and we got faster and faster stuff so them 133MB/s didn't last long.

    It's sort of good that it goes away, because except for sound cards I can't think of any reason why anyone would want a PCI card in a modern system. For legacy systems or special stuff there are lots of interesting things to have there.

    10 years? No way, no how. Ten years ago you encountered systems without AGP slots, so if your onboard video died your only option was PCI GPU's. Ditto if you wanted more than 1 monitor. Sound cards, expansion cards (USB 2.0 on older boards), NIC's... Tons and tons of realistically usefull stuff.
  8. HammerON

    HammerON The Watchful Moderator Staff Member

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    I personally have not used a PCI slot since socket 939 days...
    But I understand that others do...
    Crunching for Team TPU
  9. JunkBear

    JunkBear

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    I am using it on a Compaq Evo D51S-sff.

    The low profile AGP version of a big 64 megs MX440 and the PCI for a USB 2.0 Belkin card.

    The two front usb ports are so mashed together that you can't fit 2 items of even a large usb won't fit.
  10. newtekie1

    newtekie1 Semi-Retired Folder

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    PCIe was released in 2003(yes, really, 10 years ago!), PCI became an obsolete technology at that moment. We continued to use PCI(just because it is obsolete doesn't mean it isn't useful), but it was technologically obsolete. We've prolonged its death 10 years, I think it is about time we let it it die.
    Crunching for Team TPU More than 25k PPD
  11. tigger

    tigger I'm the only one

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    I agree, same with the parallel and serial ports.
  12. Frick

    Frick Fishfaced Nincompoop

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    Ah we're using words differently then.
  13. Bo$$

    Bo$$ Lab Extraordinaire

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    still using one ;)
  14. Jstn7477

    Jstn7477

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    Anything after LGA 1156 doesn't have native PCI slots and relies on an ASMedia or ITE PCIe to PCI converter. AMD still has them but then again they are still using the legacy NB/SB for AM3+ and the chipset itself hasn't really changed since ~2010 (I consider the 9xx chipsets a re-brand of the 8xx series).
    Crunching for Team TPU More than 25k PPD
  15. marsey99

    marsey99

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    just because something becomes replaced or eol it doesnt make it obsolete.

    that being said i have 2 of them on my z87 oc :lol:

    i got rid of my pci sound card years ago xD
  16. newtekie1

    newtekie1 Semi-Retired Folder

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    Actually, that is exactly what Obsolete means. The simplest definition of obsolete is "Replaced by something newer". Just because something is obsolete doesn't mean it isn't still used or isn't still useful, it just means something new has come out. And even if you make the argument that PCI wasn't obsolete right when PCIe came out 10 years ago, it definitely is obsolete today, there is no arguing that. PCI needs to die.
    Crunching for Team TPU More than 25k PPD
  17. newconroer

    newconroer

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    Therein lies the problem - the main reason PCIs are put on boards still is for use with sound cards, as they recognize many sound cards are still PCI. Which raises the question then, why put the slots in unfavorable positions? It just forces you to choose between PCI E device which may take up two slots/spaces, or a PCI device. Why not then just leave off the PCI altogether?
  18. swaaye

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    And the PCIe-to-PCI bridge setup can cause problems specifically with sound cards. The "PCI bus" on my Z68 board doesn't work correctly with my old X-Fi card (but Audigy works fine).
  19. Jstn7477

    Jstn7477

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    Yep, the only PCI card I have tried in my Z87 Extreme6 is an old IEEE 1394 card pulled from some old early 2000s HP desktop and it refused to initialize properly. Haven't tried any other cards but I'm positive the card still works on "true PCI" boards.
    Crunching for Team TPU More than 25k PPD

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