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Horrible pictures of dead caps

Discussion in 'Cases, Modding & Electronics' started by trodas, Sep 8, 2007.

  1. trodas

    trodas

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    infrared -
    Nope, he was not aware of any bug and I do believe he did it right. It is just fake Elite polymers that give up. Nothing new. I seen this already plenty of times.

    Wrong again. That it is :p


    Mussels -
    Nah. Given the "quality" of used caps it would go "boom" even just in time of use ;)


    thebeephaha -
    True. Even good one can fail miserably when overloaded. The specs specify exactly the maximum ripple currents. If you go (and you can go) over it - well - you know what is comming. And if you use polymers where elytes should be and underrated and from dubious maker also - what did you expect?! ;)


    Duffman -
    Not anymore. It is actually quite simple. Where would all the board makers be, if boards last 20 years?! They can't afford that to happen. So, how about buy some of the cheapo China made fake caps? Yea! We can save on production and there is guaraned income then, because everyone will need to replace their mainboards!
    What a idea!



    The Vcore mod turned out to be perfectly fine. Just "Elite" polymer cap's are nowhere near being "Elite" ones at all. Everyone in the caps bussines know that only Fujitsu, NCC, Samxon and Sanyo that make good / respectable makers of polymer caps.
    The rest is - plainly and simple - junk. Regardless how many "Elite" stamps they put on it. I would never use these caps.

    At least if I did not plan end up like there these PSU caps:


    Skyhawk PSU 230W, CapXon caps, user Trippax, SvetHardware.cz forum

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2008
  2. Mussels

    Mussels Moderprator Staff Member

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    trodas: the quotes are a bit out of context. we are talking about the asus board specifically - mines ran OC'd for a year without even bulging, and he DID vmod the board. Either he did the vmod wrong, or the board cant handle the stress of the vmod - it doesnt mean the caps are bad at all, if they handle the voltages the board can naturally supply by itself.
  3. trodas

    trodas

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    Well, I used the quotes to be right on the problem ;) Polymer caps, even dubious ones, never bulge or leak. So this is not a argument anymore.

    Board and mosfets are fine, or the current protection would kick in, so, once again no argument ;)
    Sorry.

    Truth is that in stress test you check the quality of the caps and their safe rate margin well. Obviously (as this is not isolated case) the caps are of poor quality and underrated concerning the settings of OCP ;)
  4. mag96 New Member

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    does eneyone know where to get solid caps
  5. a111087

    a111087

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    most of the new popular mobos are with solid caps
    it is often one of the feature, so read them and you will see
  6. Black Panther

    Black Panther Senior Moderatorâ„¢ Staff Member

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    Not a cap but what I got on a mobo... a blown VRM (voltage regulator module?) Looks pretty bad though doesn't it?

    [​IMG]
    trodas says thanks.
  7. a111087

    a111087

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    isaw some people selling dead video cards on ebay because of VRM
    and those who can fix it easily can buy them and fix cheaper that the video card
  8. spearman914

    spearman914 New Member

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    LOL IT BROKE INTO PIECES:
    [​IMG]
  9. trodas

    trodas

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    mag96 - Bip Pope sell some Os-con polymers as well as more of Samxon X-Con polymers ;) I just recently took photos of like 13 new types. You can order them from there:
    http://capsmod.net/caps/
    ...however till Big Pope add these new photos to database, you can check them on my little private database-testing (yep, we did the database for him as well, as the pics) think there:
    http://trodas.wz.cz/kondiky/
    Look out for SEPC Os-cons (best quality polylers ever, almost as good as the Samxon ULR ones) and their SVP SMD equivalents as well, as for the ULR ones from Samxon ;)
    (Big Pope seems to love push the X-Con name, but... it is just like the Os-con line from Sanyo...)


    a111087 -
    Witch is, in many cases, pretty dumb idea. For example for the Vcore input, well, this almost scream to have reasonably sized elyte cap... but you know. Marketing. They need to push the "all solid caps" stuff, so... Except for hi-frequency Vcore output I prefer quality elytes.


    Black Panther - nice. Poor thing. What happend? :confused: It is kinda near the bios, something with USB or...? :confused:


    a111087 -
    Well, some cases are not exactly fixble anyway. So it is more like a gamble ;)


    spearman914 - nah, someone just diassembly it. What is that? iMac mobo, or...? :confused:
  10. cdawall where the hell are my stars

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    hey what about RLX caps i have a ECS KT600-a sitting in my room that i was going to play with i might recap if they are bad
  11. trodas

    trodas

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    RLX? They are probably OST caps, right? IIRC OST do the RLX type... ;)


    Fake Nichicon caps onIntel D865GLC mobo:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG] [​IMG]


    My friend Peter bring the mobo to me for recap.
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2012
  12. Black Panther

    Black Panther Senior Moderatorâ„¢ Staff Member

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    It's at the top near the RAM.

    A friend of mine told me that his computer wasn't powering on. He didn't do anything to it, I suspect it was a voltage spike in the power? He wasn't using a voltage regulator, just pc plugged into wall socket.
  13. theeldest

    theeldest

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    Someone earlier said that the mobo manufacturers should just use larger caps.

    But if I remember my electronics correctly, the size (in farads) of the capacitor defines what frequency it is going to filter out. PSUs want to filter anything around 60hz (artifacts of switching AC to DC). The boards themselves want to filter anything that may arise from generating frequency signals (ie, clocks for the different components).

    Smaller caps (fewer farads) filter higher frequencies. So if you replace the caps with bigger ones (more farads), then you'll no longer filter the proper frequencies.

    Is this right? Granted, I've never done power regulation circuits and it's been awhile, so my electronics is a bit rusty.
  14. trodas

    trodas

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    That is incorrect. Yes, mostly they should use a bit larger caps and not skip on the capacitance way too much, however this is a side issue. The main issue is, that these caps are known fake-phony bad brands made in China from stolen formulas and 100% known to fail miserably in just a short while.

    This is oversimplification. The capacitor parameters are not only capacity and nominal voltage. There is ESR, ESL, max ripple and frequency/temperature response.
    To put it in short, there are unbeliable differences in filtering different freqency and it has all together nothing to do with capacity at all and everything to do with technology of the capacitor.

    This is incorrect. Suggested reading: http://capsmod.net/forum/viewthread.php?tid=19&extra=page=1 ;)

    Not to worry. I learn in my electronics school the very same nonsense and oversimplification. The capacitors are way too complex things for such dangerous oversimplifications.

    The CPU VRM filtering can be seen, if we forget all the temperature/frequency and impedance problems involved as simply as resistance of the CPU and in parallel the resistance (ESR) of the Vcore output caps. There is need that these caps have at least 20x lower the resistance (that is why quality caps are used and in parallel connection, witch futher decrease the resulting resistance) so most of the ripple go thru them ;)

    Again, even this is a dangerous oversimplification, but it works almost like this - the other variables play relatively little role - at least as long, that the regulator is designed to use suitable frequency for them (near 100kHz is typical well performing spot of polymers, however as frequency increase (starting from like 50Hz), the capacity of the cap decrease (!) ... so it is a very complex thing)...

    Polymers is wise to use only where the regulation circuit is designed for them directly - where no low frequency exist. That is because in low frequency the polymers simply suxx badly. You can find the multiplier for lower frequency in specs and come up with table like this:

    Samxon X-con URL polymes: 120Hz = 0.05; 1kHz = 0.30; 10kHz = 0.70; 100kHz = 1.00
    Samxon electrolyte GA cap: 120Hz = 0.50; 1kHz = 0.80; 10kHz = 0.90; 100kHz = 1.00

    So using the table shown up there we can calculate the real maximal ripple currents for Samxon GA 3300uF 6.3V and Samxon URL 820uF 6.3V caps:

    120Hz - URL = 332mA, GA = 2345mA
    1kHz - URL = 1992mA, GA = 3752mA
    10kHz - URL = 4648mA, GA = 4221mA
    100kHz - URL = 6640mA, GA = 4690mA

    So as you can clearly see, polymers with the multiplier 0.05 has no chance in 120Hz (and let's not even mention 50Hz). So polymers are good for output phase of hi-frequency VRM circuits and nowhere else. This nicely demonstrating and confirming the design of Intel D955XCS mainboard:
    [​IMG]
  15. trodas

    trodas

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    MSI 6541 (Compaq Evo 310) and G-Luxon caps in it

    [​IMG]
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2012
  16. p_o_s_pc

    p_o_s_pc F@H&WCG addict

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    thats great. My MSI board in my P4 rig has the same kind of caps and the age is getting up there.
    Crunching for Team TPU
  17. DrPepper

    DrPepper The Doctor is in the house

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    Oh the humanity :twitch:
  18. trodas

    trodas

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    Sacon caps on eVGA 7600GT, user Bevo, CapMods forum

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2012
  19. synaesthesia New Member

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    Hi folks, new user here; just found this thread whilst idley flicking through the forums :D

    See loads of blown caps on a day to day basis due to my work, mostly through Dell "CapMan" Optiplexs and HP Compaq desktops. No pictures to post.

    I think it was touched upon before, but much of the issues causing the bad caps, especially for the above two brands and Apple also was due to them buying cheap caps using a stolen formula. A stolen formula with a vital missing stabilisation ingredient :) As much as some folks are right up Apples bottom, they're not immune to sourcing cheap parts either.

    Obviously anything chemical isn't going to last forever so the above is certainly not true for all the cases we've seen on this thread :)

    I see quite a lot of them in the cheaper OEM power supplies and definately a lot of Gigabyte and MSI motherboards (socket 478 and socket A mostly). It suprises me to find that picture of a blown cap on an X-Fi here too - got one in my machine. I have noticed that much of the hardware I deal with daily generally has caps that have going or are going, or have lids marked with permanent marker, making me wonder if there's been a lot of replacement going on.

    Repaired one example at work yesterday, we scrapped off a 22" widescreen TFT monitor (NEC). I'm a stubborn bugger and can't stand throwing an otherwise decent bit of kit away, so cracked it open, finding both the power supply and inverters littered with bulging caps. Replaced them all and I've now got a new screen on my desk :)

    Looks like I'll be sticking around this place, a great deal of information and mods to ogle at :D
    trodas says thanks.
  20. ste2425

    ste2425

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    i read the firsrt page then skipped a few so if this has already been asked i apologise :p but how exactly do you avoide this apeening, them 'poping'?
  21. Mussels

    Mussels Moderprator Staff Member

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    buy good quality hardware, pray a lot. because lots of these are fake, you can never actually tell until they blow - once they start leaking, cooling them with a fan or heatsink can slow the damage... but they're basically screwed once they start to bulge.

    That said, i've seen caps bulging and the system lasted over 5 years, even after they spewed brown goop everywhere. PC died eventually, a horrible fiery death... but hey, it took a while to get there.
    ste2425 says thanks.
  22. ste2425

    ste2425

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    a right ok, does it damage the rest of your system if they do? i mean if it dnt goes up in flames or out:p like cpu ram etc?
  23. lemonadesoda

    lemonadesoda

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    Only roman catholic caps will pope. If you see any other caps poping, then they're faking it.

    ****
    Troda's tip will be to replace all dody caps with high quality Jap ones. Probably good advice. But a lot of work... and not for people who arent experienced in working with microelectronics and soldering irons.

    The other way to stop caps from popping is to UNDERCLOCK your PC, and reduce CPU voltage. That gives each electronic a lot more headroom and will wear out/fail much less.

    If you overclock, and increase volts, you are taking the mainboard ABOVE its design specification (unless it is a quality m/b designed for overclocking). Doing so will only speed up the risk of fail.
  24. Mussels

    Mussels Moderprator Staff Member

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    depends what they were powering. if you see caps next to your CPU socket start bulging/leaking... either solder new ones on, or get a new mobo. fast.
  25. tkpenalty New Member

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    Its good that they had the breakable vents.... imagine the vents didnt exist :twitch:.

    Trodas is it true that solid polymer caps also come in the old-style aluminium cans?
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2008

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