Who'll be the better president?

[DaMulta]

Biden CLEARLY won this. He answered every question, while Plain skipped just about everyone. How many times did she repeat the same thing about taxes? two many to count.

McCain on wallstreet voting for less and less deregulation. When Obama seen this coming two years ago and said something needed to be done. Now all McCains adds push the buck to Obama when in fact Obama was for regulation that McCain wants now.

Biden clearly new whats going on in all the wars. And who to go after.

Palin was all about oil and drill drill drill. It will take 10 years to get that oil, and it's only a 3 year supply. In ten years if we focused all our attention on wind farms and other sources of energy we would not even need that oil. There's plenty now. On clean coal, Biden clearly pointed out that was he was talking about was taken out of context. Clean coal could be the way to the future. We can make jet fuel, diesel out of that stuff it just needs to be worked on as gasoline has to burn cleaner. To top it off we have mountains of coal. It would be a very wise thing to go after instead of more oil.

She said that he kept looking at the past, but every time he did that he gave the answer of what he voted for. Then everything that he was against and predicted came true in a bad way. He was not just saying the past but giving a way to fix it, or how it should of been done. Plain during many of these times, didn't respond back to him, but went back to her taxes taxes taxes statements. I loled every time she did it, because clearly she had no idea on what he was even talking about.

I love how she says cut cut cut taxes when we are going into a huge dept. It's going to take my lifetime, and my sons just to pay it off. It's a have to thing, and yes Palin it's patriotic to help your country pay for the things that help us and the world. Money does not grow on trees. And yes Palin people that make over 250k a year would not be hurting if they had to pay a little more. It has to be paid one day, before we go bankrupt and I have to take a wheel barrel of cash to buy a loaf of bread.

She kept saying the maverick over and over, I loved when Bidin corrected her on why he is not one. It's just a spin on the truth.

At one point she made a statement about Obama raising taxes on a bill, when McCain voted yes on the same bill. He clearly knows McCain better than she does.

And lets be honest is Pakistan or Iran shot off a nuke. They would only get a few off, before they were wiped off the planet. From my understanding we could wipe Russia out with just 4 bombs.

To me she should she has no business running for Vp of the United States of America. Even more so that McCain could drop dead at any given moment and she would become President. I don't even want to think about that.

The biggest thing I myself walked away from watching this was. That McCain and Bush are the same. Biden made that point very very very clear. So if you take a look at were we are now, and the world hating us, if McCain wins it's just going to continue.

 

[btarunr]

Kieran, why do you care? your not a US Citizen (correct me if im wrong on that)

He cares because this is a open debate for everyone, even if we don't participate in the American democracy, an American leadership does affect the whole world. So the "superpower" monicker comes into play there.

This is sparta (300 replies )

 

[DaMulta]

I don't think people understand that in the US, medical treatment is available to everybody. Be it that you don't have insurance, are an illegal immigrant, or even don't pay your medical bills, you will still get treatment.

Based on our constitution, a nationalized healthcare system is not the answer. This is what Obama is in favor of which would completely destroy the heatlthcare free market industry.

You have to be on your death bed to get that.....Emergency room. McCains healthcare plan is just scary to me.

In my state we have a healthcare system for everyone that is under 18 and it works VERY well. You pick your own doctors, dentist, eye doctors. It just works. Now you have to make so much money to qualify for it, and that's what we should have for everyone in the us. You make under 24k or border line poverty you should have free health care.



Most countries that have money have free heathcare. Why don't we?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_health_care

 

[DOM]

You have to be on your death bed to get that.....Emergency room. McCains healthcare plan is just scary to me.

In my state we have a healthcare system for everyone that is under 18 and it works VERY well. You pick your own doctors, dentist, eye doctors. It just works. Now you have to make so much money to qualify for it, and that's what we should have for everyone in the us. You make under 24k or border line poverty you should have free health care.



Most countries that have money have free heathcare. Why don't we?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_health_care

greed my friend :shadedshu

 

[Darkrealms]

DaMulta you and I took very different points of view away from this debate. I felt that Biden dodged more issues than Palin did.
What state do you live in? Sorry I know Oregon doesn't have that as a system. One of the problems with providing for the very poor (permanently, I agree with temporary assistance) is that many of them won't raise themselves to a higher standard if it is paid for. I have stated several times that I don't mind helping people out temporarily to help them get back on their feet but people take advantage of the system all the time.
I also feel that Palin has more experience in politics than Obama does, does this mean I want her to be president, NO! But I do feel she has more experience. I also feel that Biden presented himself in a way that made him no more straight forward than McCain does.

MilkyWay do you know anything about Alaska? My parents have lived there for a while now and feel that her strengths out way her weaknesses by far and she has been helping Alaska.

 

[Basard]

lol, the debate, wow.... sad... i couldnt take it anymore after 5 minutes..... they couldnt discuss any points because the other side just would talk shit, so the whole time each vp was just defending his or herself.

palin gives shoutouts to 3rd graders during one of her turns---sad..... god will save our country.... yeah right, what a dumb ass, if republicans win this year, we may as well commit suicide.... "she stopped the bridge to nowhere" whoopty fuckin do....

biden? at least he acts like a politician, not a ditsy soccer mom with a fuckin yooper accent. i have no clue about this guy, but at least he doesn't SOUND like an idiot.

and whats the deal with political parties, get rid of them.... for the same reason we seperated church and state.... "what are you democrat or republican?" "seriously, i wanna know so i can start hating you already..." sad.... lets label everybody in the country, so we can be prejudice against them...

as far as palin helping alaska... ya sure, it's pretty hard to help that state, haha.... anything you do up there is help.... u could dig a hole in the ground, and crap in it... u just helped keep one pile of crap off the streets of alaska--and nothing else would break the news....

"on one side is russia, and on the other is canada, they are both in alaska--der da der"

 

[eidairaman1]

i sort of realized something about the 2 major parties, each time the sides swap, the current president sets up the office for failure, making it hard for the next party to do something productive, im sorry but these parties have got to go.

 

[Rammsteiner]

No, they pull the plug here all the time - and if it were not for the socialists, probably more often...

Ive heard other stories to be honest. Even a hosptital in our country was on USA news for 'murdering':shadedshu And with the huge pro-christianity in USA I doubt it's done with 100% agreement in the first place.

Most DISCOVERIES are made here. American companies have more patents, inventions, etc. than anywhere in the world. per capita, we have the BEST system in the world. Nobody waits 6 months for a cancer treatment.
Canadians come here, from their UK style health system...

Errr, are you trailing Palin now? What have compagnies with patents and inventions have to do with healthcare?

Anyway, if you want a nice short clear list of the great achievements conservatists seem to be proud of; here you go. No matter what USA discovers, if we'd only forget the mess they made the past 15 years, it's still nothing to be proud of.

Also USA has nothing to do with compagnies and such really, this could have happened in any country. USA has simply the pioneer status and a lot of people are still drugged with the American Dream, so it's always growing and thus almost a guaranteed money flow. Regarding the patents, that's because everyone is afraid the neighbour runs away with it and eventually makes money from it, even if the invention was only meant to prevent shit flying around your toilet when your sick.

And actually, the very few and most important inventions were done in the old Greek/Roman/Chinese/Egypt/Iraq/Iran/French and even Dutch times, everything is based on that.

Wait time for healthcare is indeed good yeah, however this still does not mean the quality is because of that the best, nor that the whole system is the best or what so ever. In quite a few countries the most important drawback is the lack of enough hospitals.

Democrats like Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama try to make you believe that they actually care about your healthcare. That's horsecrap. The truth of the matter is: they don't. They care about power. Democrats want to provide government healthcare or insurance programs for one reason ... because they realize that controlling your health care means controlling you. Power. Don't believe me? Here's the news from April 2008

It could be me really, but I hardly see anything wrong there? It's just a battle between two systems where both have there negative and positive points... Like capitalism and communism.

Also I see no 'evil power control' options there, as far as I understand it they want to make sure people do not spend insurance money for healthcare on irrelevant things. If I would have a reason to try and think of a theory/conspiracy here, I would think they want to protect the insured people for cheating their selves instead of controlling... what?

The way I read it, it's like a bank. Bank sets up a mortgage with you, you think you're smart and actually increase it with 50K so 'lol, we've got more money!'. Then we cant pay it anymore because of no job, spending too much or whatever and the bank will the be left laughing because you only cheated yourself.

Just how I see it really. Im not anti-American, pro-Democrats or what so ever. I do think that the thoughts of a lot of Americans is a bit, simplistic so to say. And yes, quite a lot of those are mostly conservatists

 

[Scrizz]

lol, the debate, wow.... sad... i couldnt take it anymore after 5 minutes..... they couldnt discuss any points because the other side just would talk shit, so the whole time each vp was just defending his or herself.

palin gives shoutouts to 3rd graders during one of her turns---sad..... god will save our country.... yeah right, what a dumb ass, if republicans win this year, we may as well commit suicide.... "she stopped the bridge to nowhere" whoopty fuckin do....

biden? at least he acts like a politician, not a ditsy soccer mom with a fuckin yooper accent. i have no clue about this guy, but at least he doesn't SOUND like an idiot.

and whats the deal with political parties, get rid of them.... for the same reason we seperated church and state.... "what are you democrat or republican?" "seriously, i wanna know so i can start hating you already..." sad.... lets label everybody in the country, so we can be prejudice against them...

as far as palin helping alaska... ya sure, it's pretty hard to help that state, haha.... anything you do up there is help.... u could dig a hole in the ground, and crap in it... u just helped keep one pile of crap off the streets of alaska--and nothing else would break the news....

"on one side is russia, and on the other is canada, they are both in alaska--der da der"

:shadedshu

 

[Odin Eidolon]

Kieran, why do you care? your not a US Citizen (correct me if im wrong on that)

America is the most powerful nation in the world. What happens to you affects us all. Bush's errors damage us too. I pay fuel triple i did 10 years ago too.
Your economy is in a moment of danger, and our is trying not to fall down with yours.
We are all linked people. in this globalized world what happens to one nation affects the others.

 

[DaMulta]

DaMulta you and I took very different points of view away from this debate. I felt that Biden dodged more issues than Palin did.

I dont see how, like?

What state do you live in? Sorry I know Oregon doesn't have that as a system. One of the problems with providing for the very poor (permanently, I agree with temporary assistance) is that many of them won't raise themselves to a higher standard if it is paid for. I have stated several times that I don't mind helping people out temporarily to help them get back on their feet but people take advantage of the system all the time.

What makes people think that other people don't want to make more money? Just because they get free heath care, or a food stamps does not make people not want to make themselves do better. Now there are a few out there, but I would put money they have other issues as well.[/QUOTE]

I live in Oklahoma, I'm working at a place for the last 3 years as a single parent that does not make a ton of money. I plan on very soon taking my experience and looking for better employment that pays more with benefits. During that time, yes my son has been on the state heath care system. Why would you not want kids to go to the Dr if they are sick or just even a check up. Who you are born to is not a choice that kids get to make. They should be taken care of no matter what until they are adults IMO. The system has been in place for as long as I can remember, and I believe that it has done our kids a lot of good. I think it would be wrong to deny them them the right to be healthy.

Also

What if you live in a small town and all there is, is jobs that pay next to noting or a small farmer that barely makes ends meats and no way in hell could pay for health care? Is it a big fuck you move to a big city make big cash or sorry about your luck? Are we as a people not better than that, not to help our own people, but only to go fight wars across seas to free people with democracy. But then turn around and say fuck you to an American citizen that is sick and needs preventive care to live or to be even healthy? It should be a given right that all people should be taken care of, at least all the kids that have no choice in the matter at all.

I also feel that Palin has more experience in politics than Obama does, does this mean I want her to be president, NO! But I do feel she has more experience. I also feel that Biden presented himself in a way that made him no more straight forward than McCain does.

How so?
Obama was a constitutional law professor from 1992-2004(give or take)State legislator, 1997–2004,U.S. Senator, from 2005----now
During his time as a senator Obama got a little taste of EVERYTHING that goes on in this county and over seas way more than a Governor would ever see..
How many bills has he voted on that could have or did affect you and me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_legislature_(United_States)

As a Governor you deal with your state, to me not as important as what a senator does which affects each and every one of you and I.
As a legislative branch of government, a legislature generally performs the same duties for a state the Congress performs at Federal level, and a general rule, the same types of checks and balances at the Federal level apply between the state legislature, the state executive officer (a governor) and the state judiciary, though the degree to which this is so varies from one state to the next.

During a legislative session, the legislature considers matters introduced by its members or submitted by the governor. Businesses and other special interest organizations often lobby the legislature to obtain beneficial legislation, defeat unfavorably perceived measures, or influence other legislative action. A legislature also approves the state's operating and capital budgets, which may begin as a legislative proposal or a submission by the governor.

Under the terms of Article V of the U.S. Constitution, state lawmakers retain the power to ratify Constitutional amendments which have been proposed by the Congress and they also retain the ability to apply to the Congress for a national convention to directly propose Constitutional amendments to the states for ratification. Under Article II, state legislatures choose the manner of appointing the state's presidential electors. Formerly, state legislatures appointed the U.S. Senators from their respective states until the ratification of the 17th Amendment in 1913 required the direct election of Senators by a state's voters.

So Palin has more experience because she was in this small towns(6000 people) Wasilla, Alaska, city council from 1992 to 1996 and mayor from 1996 to 2002 dealing with city issues Not world issues(I keep seeing on t/v don't really know that that city went 2 million in dept with her in control but a lot of citys do that), and the Gov for not even 2 years yet(in Nov it will be 2 years).

MilkyWay do you know anything about Alaska? My parents have lived there for a while now and feel that her strengths out way her weaknesses by far and she has been helping Alaska.

No I don't live there, but Alaska has so much oil that it pays people to live there from my understanding. Of course they are going to be able to cut taxes for it citizens they are a rich state. When most states in the united states have to borrow money every year, or have a balanced budget. I think Alaska is almost a different country that the rest of America, it's isolated IMO and not the same as the rest of the us. Well yes and no as the same.

 

[mdm-adph]

Oh yeah -- forgot to say this yesterday. I know it's a low blow, but I like Obama better (as a person) because he's never cheated on his wife.

Not to say I'd vote for him (if I could), but I wouldn't mind having a beer with the guy sometime.

 

[trt740]

i dont care if palin is middle class all dandy and WASP shes too inexperiencd to be vice president goverour of what ALSKA WITH A FRIKEN POPULATION CONSISTING OF A FEW HUNDRED PEOPLE AND A FEW HUNDRED BEARS!!!

dont care if anyone is from a poor or a rich upbrining all i care about is can they run the country well thats all that matters

maybe i was being ageist and maybe mc cain would be a good president but i think obahma is the leader the country needs

im only an outsider so dont bother about what i think

700,000 people is hardly a few hundred people and a few bears.

 

[WhiteLotus]

700,000 people is hardly a few hundred people and a few bears.

The population of Plymouth (UK) is 250,700 and that is just a small city. I think what Keiran was getting at was that for the population density of Alaska compared to many other states in the USA it is nothing.

 

[btarunr]

The population of Plymouth (UK) is 250,700 and that is just a small city. I think what Keiran was getting at was that for the population density of Alaska compared to many other states in the USA it is nothing.

But it's a prominent state in respect to the country's oil reserves. Palin not only manages the people of Alaska, but also its wild-life, timber, oil corporations... and since the state is so dangerously close to Russia (implies some military presence in Alaska) and shares a border with Canada (patrol), and the fact that it's somewhat cut-off from mainland USA, running that icy state needs guts.

 

[WhiteLotus]

But it's a prominent state in respect to the country's oil reserves. Palin not only manages the people of Alaska, but also its wild-life, timber, oil corporations... and since the state is so dangerously close to Russia (implies some military presence in Alaska) and shares a border with Canada (patrol), and the fact that it's somewhat cut-off from mainland USA, running that icy state needs guts.

this is true - i don't argue that one bit, there is a lot of natural resources up there and they need to be looked after, and/or extracted without destroying all the wildelife that alaska has

I was just trying to say that Keiran probably meant its not hard to make 700,000 odd people happy.

 

[MilkyWay]

yeah making Alaska happy is easier than begin a mayor of a city of millions, all you have to do is make sure you dont upset the locals with to much resource drilling do a good job here and there

what does Palin know about running the US? granted only vice president but still a big job! shes not proved shes more than capable of the job

this election is more about family values and personalities

i dont even know what mc cain and obahma stand for LOL!

she might run Alaska very well indeed but begin vice president is totally different you understand im not mocking her work for Alaska its just totally different in scale


Russia LOL its tundra on that side of Russia and loads of ice between the sea, i highly doubt they are going to invade Alaska and march through Canada

who would want to illegally cross the border from Canada to Alaska? both are nice places

 

[bigenuffumbrella]

2008 Presidential Candidate Comparison

Here are the facts...vote for whomever you want. Links to all quoted sources are at the end of the post. God Bless America!

Favors new drilling offshore US
JOHN McCAIN Yes
BARAK OBAMA No

Will appoint judges who interpret the law not make it
JOHN McCAIN Yes
BARAK OBAMA No

Served in the US Armed Forces
JOHN McCAIN Yes
BARACK OBAMA No

Amount of time served in the US Senate
JOHN McCAIN 22 YEARS
BARACK OBAMA almost 4 YEARS

Will institute a socialized national health care plan
JOHN McCAIN No
BARACK OBAMA Yes

Supports abortion throughout the pregnancy
JOHN McCAIN No
BARACK OBAMA Yes

Would pull troops out of Iraq immediately
JOHN McCAIN No
BARACK OBAMA Yes

Supports gun ownership rights
JOHN McCAIN Yes
BARACK OBAMA No

Proposed programs will mean a huge tax increase
JOHN McCAIN No
BARACK OBAMA Yes

Voted against making English the official language
McCAIN No
BARACK OBAMA Yes

Voted to give Social Security benefits to illegals
JOHN McCAIN No
BARACK OBAMA Yes

CAPITAL GAINS TAX

MCCAIN
0% on home sales up to $500,000 per home (couples). McCain does not propose any change in existing home sales income tax.

OBAMA
28% on profit from ALL home sales. (How does this affect you? If you sell your home and make a profit, you will pay 28% of your gain on taxes. If you are heading toward retirement and would like to down-size your home or move into a retirement community, 28% of the money you make from your home will go to taxes. This proposal will adversely affect the elderly who are counting on the income from their homes as part of their retirement income.)

DIVIDEND TAX

MCCAIN
15% (no change)

OBAMA
39.6% - (How will this affect you? If you have any money invested in stock market, IRA, mutual funds, college funds, life insurance, retirement accounts, or anything that pays or reinvests dividends, you will now be paying nearly 40% of the money earned on taxes if Obama becomes president.
The experts predict that 'Higher tax rates on dividends and capital gains would crash the stock market, yet do absolutely nothing to cut the
deficit.')

INCOME TAX

MCCAIN

(no changes)
Single making 30K - tax $4,500
Single making 50K - tax $12,500
Single making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 60K- tax $9,000
Married making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 125K - tax $31,250

OBAMA (reversion to pre-Bush tax cuts)
Single making 30K - tax $8,400
Single making 50K - tax $14,000
Single making 75K - tax $23,250
Married making 60K - tax $16,800
Married making 75K - tax $21,000
Married making 125K - tax $38,750
Under Obama, your taxes could almost double!

INHERITANCE TAX

MCCAIN
- 0% (No change, Bush repealed this tax)

OBAMA
Restore the inheritance tax

Many families have lost businesses, farms, ranches, and homes that have been in their families for generations because they could not afford the inheritance tax. Those willing their assets to loved ones will only lose them to these taxes.

NEW TAXES PROPOSED BY OBAMA

New government taxes proposed on homes that are more than 2400 square feet.
New gasoline taxes (as if gas weren't high enough already) New taxes on natural resources consumption (heating gas, water, electricity) New taxes on retirement accounts, and last but not least....New taxes to pay for socialized medicine so we can receive the same level of medical care as other third-world countries.

On a personal note...Tax cuts for the middle class are all well and good. God know's I'm all for that. I'm as middle as they come. But the fact of the matter is if you raise taxes on the "wealthy", then they will in turn do less of those things that will cause them to be taxed. If they're a corporation they are likely to take their businesses over seas, if they are privately owned businesses they are likely not to expand and will cut back on the number of jobs they do have. Pay attention to the unemployment rate. Every time the minimum wage increases the jobless rate goes up the next quarter. Why? If I have 5 people who work for me for 5 dollars an hour and suddenly have to pay them now 7.50 an hour...I'm going to cut 2 people so I can make ends meet and still make a profit. Don't let your hatred of W get in the way of making a decision you will regret. I am old enough to remember the Carter administration and I remember eating brown beans 3 nights a week because it was all my parents could afford. John McCain is not George Bush. I think we can all agree we've had enough of W. But do not throw out the baby with the bathwater. 88% of the time he has voted in the Senate he has voted in favor of the taxpayer. Last year his average was 100%, Obama's was 12%, Biden's was 0%. John McCain has been in combat. He has fought and suffered for this country and I personally trust him to surround himself with people smart enough to fix the economy and I know he knows the fastest and best ways to bring my cousins, my friends and the rest of our boys home from Iraq. I don't' guess it's very hard to guess who I'm voting for, all the above figures are true btw and I invite you to check the answers for yourself. If you've read all of this thank you for your time.

BigE​

Just something to think about.


***You can verify the above at the following web sites:

http://money.cnn.com/news/specials/election/2008/index.html

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/issues/issues.taxes.html

http://elections.foxnews.com/?s=proposed+taxes

http://bulletin.aarp.org/yourworld/politics/articles/mccain_obama_offer_
diff
erent_visions_on_taxes.html

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/candidates/barack_obama/

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/candidates/john_mccain/

 

[mdm-adph]

Here are the facts...vote for whomever you want. Links to all quoted sources are at the end of the post. God Bless America!

Ooh, me first, me first -- since even though you didn't state who you support, it's still pretty obvious, just let me check on a few things...

Favors new drilling offshore US
JOHN McCAIN Yes
BARAK OBAMA No

More drilling isn't going to fix any problems in the long run. Hell, it's hardly going to fix any in the short run. American oil companies have had leases to drill on offshore land for decades now, and have chosen not to do it (probably in order to keep prices high -- more oil in market = lower oil prices, lower profits for oil companies). How is giving them even more land to not drill on going to help?

Will appoint judges who interpret the law not make it
JOHN McCAIN Yes
BARAK OBAMA No

This is a very subjective statement -- care to back this up with some evidence?

Served in the US Armed Forces
JOHN McCAIN Yes
BARACK OBAMA No

And... who cares. If military service was a necessary precursor to being President, it would've been entered into the constitution. For example: your last President's military "service" involved mostly sitting behind a desk in the US state of Alabama. Big deal.

Amount of time served in the US Senate
JOHN McCAIN 22 YEARS
BARACK OBAMA almost 4 YEARS

Being a Senator also has little to do with being President. Very few Senators have ever been President (only about 15), and some of the best (Lincoln, FDR) were never Senators at all. Thus, amount of time served in the Senate wouldn't necessarily mean someone's going to be a great President.

Will institute a socialized national health care plan
JOHN McCAIN No
BARACK OBAMA Yes

I don't know how you can state someone's refusal to give everyone national health care to be a good thing.

Supports abortion throughout the pregnancy
JOHN McCAIN No
BARACK OBAMA Yes

You've got a point here, but this all goes down to personal belief, and has little to do with running a country.

Would pull troops out of Iraq immediately
JOHN McCAIN No
BARACK OBAMA Yes

I think 95% of the world here would say that Obama wins that argument.

Supports gun ownership rights
JOHN McCAIN Yes
BARACK OBAMA No

Source? I seem to recall Obama and Biden saying they support gun rights, explicitly. You may have an argument about what's called in America "CCW licenses," but then CCW licenses were never part of the Constitution to begin with.

Proposed programs will mean a huge tax increase
JOHN McCAIN No
BARACK OBAMA Yes

Taxes are necessary for running a country. A country without taxes would be a shitty one indeed.

Voted against making English the official language
McCAIN No
BARACK OBAMA Yes

I'd think it'd be quite naive to propose making English the official language of your country at this point when about 13% of your population doesn't even speak it natively.

Voted to give Social Security benefits to illegals
JOHN McCAIN No
BARACK OBAMA Yes

Once again, source?

And then a bunch more stuff about Obama raising taxes on the upper crust of society (estate taxes, dividend taxes, capital gains taxes). Boring...

(And by the way, I'm not an Obama supporter, but I love fact checking. )

 

[thoughtdisorder]

Frankly I don't like any of the choices. Just like the last several General elections. Lewis Black summed it up quite nicely; "Face it, when you step into that voting booth you are confronted with two bowls of sh*t, it's just a matter of which one stinks the least".

 

[Odin Eidolon]

Could be BigE. I dont live in the US so i dont care of the taxes you pay, and i dont know how much you pay/how much you will pay. what i know is that McCain is simply a copy of Bush. Same interests, same politics, same warmongering.
And another thing i know is that Bush is causing and caused lots of problems to our world, and you cant deny this.
You understood, I hope Obama will win.
All i'll say if McCain wins is: Now humanity will get its just deserts.

Four years ago I thought that it was impossible that Americans didnt have understood what Bush was causing. I was wrong.
This time, please, i implore you, think of the future of humanity, not just about yourself and the taxes you have to pay.
Humanity dont deserve a Bush3.


EDIT: oh, and I almost completely agree with mdm-adph's last post

 

[Rammsteiner]

Could be BigE. I dont live in the US so i dont care of the taxes you pay, and i dont know how much you pay/how much you will pay. what i know is that McCain is simply a copy of Bush. Same interests, same politics, same warmongering.
And another thing i know is that Bush is causing and caused lots of problems to our world, and you cant deny this.
You understood, I hope Obama will win.
All i'll say if McCain wins is: Now humanity will get its just deserts.

Four years ago I thought that it was impossible that Americans didnt have understood what Bush was causing. I was wrong.
This time, please, i implore you, think of the future of humanity, not just about yourself and the taxes you have to pay.
Humanity dont deserve a Bush3.


EDIT: oh, and I almost completely agree with mdm-adph's last post

Ghehe, you think the same as me mostly.

I think it's especially making me sick that everyone hails McCain for being in the army and tortured by VC... So what, that could have happened to anyone, even more soldiers actually died. He's not a hero for surviving, because in the end it's just that. He did not win the war, he did not go rambo and freed his self. And then how bad the VC treated him because he cant lift his arms fully, I'd rather see they broke his neck to be honest.

How clear is it to see? No matter if McCain/Bush solves the economics, they caused it them selves? If they really wanted it to be solved they already recalled all troops. Or they didnt deploy an anti-missile shield in Europe, which at this time is causing problems again. Damn, it's almost like they're turtling in Red Alert 3 and making an unstoppable fire power to destroy everything once they're finally done.

Lets face it, what are the reasons to have troops out right now? Why in Iraq? That was was one big lie in the first place. Why in Afghanistan? Because of Osama? Either he's already dead or he's not even near there. Besides that, there's a lot of questions to be asked why Osama planned 9/11. He didnt just do that for lol, there's a history with Bush Senior and Osama IIRC which messed up.

 

[Bigjohn]

The biggest flaw in the arguments of mdm-adph and the rest of the Europeans here is that, after years of indoctrination by their states, they have come to believe 2 things:
1 - There is such a thing as Government Money
2 - The state knows best

They also likely belive that corporations pay taxes.

Those are all incorrect.
Government money comes into existence by the state, using it's power of force, to take it from someone who earned it. When this situation exists for the benefit of ALL, it's commonly approved as a good thing - i.e. building roads, maintaining an army for defense, etc.

But to take money from someone who's earned it, for the benefit of another, is theft.

Benjamin Franklin put it quite clearly, the US is NOT a democracy. It's a republic. He said, "A democracy is two wolves and sheep arguing over whats for dinner".

Our government is in place to try to PREVENT the majority in power at any given time from taking from the minority....

It is THEFT to transfer wealth from 5% of Americans for the benefit of 95%, yet that is what Joe Biden and Barack (barry) Obama want to do.

The "inheritance tax" is wrong too. It's a communistic confiscation of the property of one family for the benefit of people who DID NOT work to build their family business or wealth...

Taxes are necessary for running a country. A country without taxes would be a shitty one indeed.

No. It would be a very FREE one though. It would be much closer to what our (USA) founding fathers wanted. Taxation without representation is what started this whole thing in 1770's...

I'd think it'd be quite naive to propose making English the official language of your country at this point when about 13% of your population doesn't even speak it natively.

That 13% are here illegally, and are not citizens. They need to pack their shit and go home.

Being a Senator also has little to do with being President. Very few Senators have ever been President (only about 15), and some of the best (Lincoln, FDR) were never Senators at all. Thus, amount of time served in the Senate wouldn't necessarily mean someone's going to be a great President.

you know, you're right about that. But Barack voted "present" 90% of the time he was around to vote (and that was not often - he was busy running for president most of his term...). Now, a good number of our presidents have, however, been Govenors.. From that you can extrapolate that Sara Palin has more qualification to be President than Obama!

 

[Bigjohn]

Ghehe, you think the same as me mostly.

I think it's especially making me sick that everyone hails McCain for being in the army and tortured by VC... So what, that could have happened to anyone, even more soldiers actually died. He's not a hero for surviving, because in the end it's just that. He did not win the war, he did not go rambo and freed his self. And then how bad the VC treated him because he cant lift his arms fully, I'd rather see they broke his neck to be honest.

No, but he refused to give in, he refused to go home, until all his fellow prisioners did too.

How clear is it to see? No matter if McCain/Bush solves the economics, they caused it them selves? If they really wanted it to be solved they already recalled all troops. Or they didnt deploy an anti-missile shield in Europe, which at this time is causing problems again. Damn, it's almost like they're turtling in Red Alert 3 and making an unstoppable fire power to destroy everything once they're finally done.

Umm, the entire economic problem here is brought on by a bill called "the community reinvestment act of 1999". Bill clinton and his cronies hatched this egg. When John McCain tried, 2 years ago, to get some regulation onto this mess, the democrats parading around congress said "There is no problem"....

 

[Polaris573]

Frankly I don't like any of the choices. Just like the last several General elections. Lewis Black summed it up quite nicely; "Face it, when you step into that voting booth you are confronted with two bowls of sh*t, it's just a matter of which one stinks the least".

There are third party options such as Ralph Nader, Chuck Baldwin, and Bob Barr. Most people are just too disenchanted with the election process to believe they have any chance. There was a poll recently that asked a group of people whether they preferred a third party candidate to Obama and McCain, the vast majority said yes. When asked whether they believed a third party candidate had any chance of becoming elected the majority said no. Is it not ironic that a large group of people would not vote for the candidate they prefer because they perceive them as unelectable, yet if they all voted for the third party candidate he/she would have a chance at winning? The electorate needs to free itself from this "lesser of two evils" mindset pushed on it by pop-culture and the media. A vote for the lesser of two evils is still a vote for evil no matter how you look at it. This petty fear that a vote must be cast for the most electable Democrat or Republican in order to prevent the opposing and supremely evil Democrat or Republican from becoming elected must stop as well. It is horribly counterintuitive and illogical. On election day as you walk into the booth and confront your "lesser of two evils" ask yourself, "Will I feel better voting for the candidate I believe in and losing, or voting for a candidate I hate and winning?"

Naturally none of this applies if you believe [Insert Republican or Democrat Here] will make the greatest president ever.