robertcThat's not exactly true... No USB2.0 flash drive is the same. Go try a Corsair Flash Voyager GTR, then try a Kingston DataTraveler and let me know if you think the performance of those two are anything even CLOSE to each other. The USB2.0 interface is NOT the bottleneck here. :nutkick:

Ooook. Let me say it this way. You can't get more than ~30MB/s out of USB 2.0. Regardless of hardware, the limit will be around there because that's physically as fast as USB 2.0 is able to deliver.

That said, some flash drives are not able to hit this mark. So they will be under the limit. But nothing will be over this 'limit'. It doesn't matter what kind of USB 3.0, USB 4.0, USB 5.0 capabilities the drive has, if operating in USB 2.0 mode you won't get more than ~30MB/s.

Feel free to prove me wrong, but this is how I understand it.

angelkillerOoook. Let me say it this way. You can't get more than ~30MB/s out of USB 2.0. Regardless of hardware, the limit will be around there because that's physically as fast as USB 2.0 is able to deliver.

Who's wanting to get more than ~30MB/s out of USB2.0? That's just stupid. If you had read my original question, I simply asked:

robertcAny idea what the Read/Write would be on USB2.0 for one of these?

If you have ever done research on USB3.0 flash drives running on USB2.0 hardware, you would see what I mean. Of COURSE it isn't going to run at USB3.0 speed on USB2.0 hardware, because it ISN'T USB3.0! Now then, if you use deductive reasoning, if the capabilities of this drive are 67MB/s read on USB3.0, that would imply that the internal chipset and memory modules are capable of maxing the USB2.0 bus. However, depending on the drive itself, just because it is USB3.0, doesn't mean that it will max out the USB2.0 bus, as shown by comparing these two reviews (Kingston Datatraveler Ultimate and Super Talent Express).

If you will notice, the Kingston will average 25MB/s write and 33MB/s read. The Super Talent, on the other hand, is closer to 20MB/s write, while the read is just above 30MB/s like the Kingston. Each flash drive will vary, depending on the chipset and memory modules used.

Now then, does anyone else know what the read/write performance for this particular flash drive is when used on USB2.0 hardware?

Great price. Great performance. I remember paying $200 for my first flash. And it was just 512MB! Big fat black keyfob thing. At the time it was amazing. People still used floppies and burned to CD. Times have changed.

UM... thoes are great prices. even if they convert the price into euros it's still a great price:)

robertcWho's wanting to get more than ~30MB/s out of USB2.0? That's just stupid. If you had read my original question, I simply asked:



If you have ever done research on USB3.0 flash drives running on USB2.0 hardware, you would see what I mean. Of COURSE it isn't going to run at USB3.0 speed on USB2.0 hardware, because it ISN'T USB3.0! Now then, if you use deductive reasoning, if the capabilities of this drive are 67MB/s read on USB3.0, that would imply that the internal chipset and memory modules are capable of maxing the USB2.0 bus. However, depending on the drive itself, just because it is USB3.0, doesn't mean that it will max out the USB2.0 bus, as shown by comparing these two reviews (Kingston Datatraveler Ultimate and Super Talent Express).

If you will notice, the Kingston will average 25MB/s write and 33MB/s read. The Super Talent, on the other hand, is closer to 20MB/s write, while the read is just above 30MB/s like the Kingston. Each flash drive will vary, depending on the chipset and memory modules used.

Now then, does anyone else know what the read/write performance for this particular flash drive is when used on USB2.0 hardware?

Ok. You understand that you can't get more than 30MB/s read out of USB 2.0. You also see that the drive does 23MB/s write in USB 3.0.

Then you ask what the drive does in USB 2.0. This is where you lose me. Clearly it won't get more than 30MB/s read and the USB 3.0 benchmark shows that the flash can only do 23MB/s write. Just like pretty much every other USB 2.0 drive, 30MB/s read 23MB/s write.

The only uncertainty in what I'm saying is if the chipset can max out the flash in USB 2.0 mode. In other words, the flash can deliver 23MB/s write, and the question is if the USB 2.0 controller can reach these speeds. (And I'm guessing it will after seeing other controllers reach these speeds)

*facepalm* :shadedshu

angelkillerYou also see that the drive does 23MB/s write in USB 3.0.

Not sure where you are getting your information. Last time I checked this thread, the only specs given were:

btarunrSuper Talent’s new USB 3.0 Express Duo can top over 67MB/s when plugged into a USB 3.0 port...

The reviews I linked to were NOT for the drive in this thread, but for completely different USB3.0 drives. They were given for comparison's sake only.

angelkillerJust like pretty much every other USB 2.0 drive, 30MB/s read 23MB/s write.

Wow... ummm... you have obviously never had a flash drive before. Why don't you get one of these drives and let me know when you can get 23MB/s write and 30MB/s read out of it. I've got one of those drives sitting here and Kingston's specs of 10MB/sec. read, 5MB/sec. write are quite accurate.

robertc*facepalm* :shadedshu

My thoughts exactly. At the very least we agree on this.

The video is from SuperTalent and shows the drive doing ~23MB/s write in USB 3.0 mode.

I understand that the reviews were for comparison and were not of the drive in question. I didn't mention those reviews in my last post so I am confused as to why you bring those up again.

Any flash drive that can't max out USB 2.0 is not worth my ownership. Sure not all USB 2.0 drives can max out the USB 2.0 bus. But this SuperTalent drive can. We know that in USB 3.0, the drive can do 67/23 read/write. Since USB 2.0 has a 30MB/s cap, logically I would think the drive would do 30/23 in USB 2.0 mode. Does this make sense to you?

I'm using an RDP connection. Videos = sh**. Would have thought btarunr would have actually put all the necessary info for tech people reading this in the original post, not leave it in some crappy flash video.

angelkillerDoes this make sense to you?

Only thing that doesn't make sense is why it took you so long to say that this drive gets 23MB/s write in USB3.0.

Now, was that so hard and really needed as many posts as we went back and forth on? No, I think not. Anyways, thank you for the information you provided in your last post; that post was the most helpful bit of information yet.:toast:

angelkillerNo. Performance will most likely be exactly the same as all other USB 2.0 devices when used as a 2.0 device. USB 2.0 is the limiting factor here. Most hardware can exceed 2.0 speeds, but since that's the interface all flash drives use, they all are subjected to the same bottleneck.


So does anyone know where these are sold? I would buy one right now if I had a link. This is one of the best things I've seen in a while. Faster than USB 2.0 flash drives? Hellz yeah! :D

USB 3.0 drives perform better than most USB 2.0 drives, even in 2.0 ports.

And USB 2.0 does not necessarily cap at 30MB/s. While not this particular drive, I do have Super Talent's 16GB Express Drive USB 3.0 and I compared it to my Patriot Xplorer XT 16GB over USB2.0.





As you can see, they are faster even than quicker USB 2.0 drives. Sure, there are some USB 2.0 drives, like Corsair's GTR series, that are just as quick in USB 2, but they cost about the same as the Express Drive for the same amount of space, so are a waste of money, as they don't benefit from USB 3.0.

For the price these drives cost, no USB 2.0 drive make sense, even if you can't exploit the full USB 3.0 capabilities.

angelkillerOk. You understand that you can't get more than 30MB/s read out of USB 2.0. You also see that the drive does 23MB/s write in USB 3.0.

I don't know where you get that 30MB/s number from, but the limit of USB 2.0 is 480Mb/s = 60MB/s.
There are overhead and stuff, but the limit is certianly higher than 30MB/s. :slap:

ZubasaI don't know where you get that 30MB/s number from, but the limit of USB 2.0 is 480Mb/s = 60MB/s.
There are overhead and stuff, but the limit is certianly higher than 30MB/s. :slap:

Show me a USB 2.0 drive that does 60 MB/s. Show me one that does 50 MB/s. Show me one that does 40 MB/s.


Thanks to Wile E for the explanation and benches. I did some more reading and it seems that USB 3.0 drives can reach higher speeds on USB 2.0 than most USB 2.0 drives. I don't understand why, but they can. I have no idea how this affects what I was arguing earlier, but now I don't care.


Didn't mean to cause so much fuss. My bad.
*leaves*

angelkillerShow me a USB 2.0 drive that does 60 MB/s. Show me one that does 50 MB/s. Show me one that does 40 MB/s.


Thanks to Wile E for the explanation and benches. I did some more reading and it seems that USB 3.0 drives can reach higher speeds on USB 2.0 than most USB 2.0 drives. I don't understand why, but they can. I have no idea how this affects what I was arguing earlier, but now I don't care.


Didn't mean to cause so much fuss. My bad.
*leaves*

It just means that the controller in the USB 2.0 drives themselves contribute to the bottleneck, that's all.

Looks like Super Talent got a product page up for these!

Also, looks like press release now states "Now Sampling to Press and taking orders for shipment in November."

Can't wait to see these in online retail stores!