Someone shake newtekie1 hand for me please!!

I agree that Apple's marketing has failed them. Their OS, while great, is not perfect by any means. Just like Windows and Linux, it has it's advantages and disadvantages. None of them are truly better than the other.

It's weird that it hangs on the blue screen.

Has anyone stepped forward and said what the incompatibility is? I have a few proggies that install kexts, if that's what they mean by a "framework that modifies OS X". Sigh, looks like aI'll have to do an Archive and install, just to be safe. Don't really like doing upgrades anyway, but was hoping to save myself the need to back up or anything.

Wile EI agree that Apple's marketing has failed them. Their OS, while great, is not perfect by any means. Just like Windows and Linux, it has it's advantages and disadvantages. None of them are truly better than the other.

That's probably another reason why we won't see OSX on PC's anytime soon. Remember the Safari fiasco where Apple touted it as the world's most secure browser for Windows. Yup it was hacked and had other types of other problems when it was released. Apple supposedly fixed some of the problems but it didn't make look good when they made those arrogant claims.

Don't get me wrong i've owned Apple products but I don't care for their "we're perfect and they're not" attitude.

Helveticaare you fking kidding me? That the #1 reason to switch listed on their site, and in their ads.

www.apple.com/getamac/works.html

Lying is starting to bite them in the ass.

Guess I don't pay much attention to Apple advertisement. I haven't had any problems with my MacBook Pro yet, but I haven't expected there to be any as I'm running a stable OS. I don't plan on upgrading anytime soon quite yet, but that's just a logical decision I make for all OSes that are just released.

RodsterThat's probably another reason why we won't see OSX on PC's anytime soon. Remember the Safari fiasco where Apple touted it as the world's most secure browser for Windows. Yup it was hacked and had other types of other problems when it was released. Apple supposedly fixed some of the problems but it didn't make look good when they made those arrogant claims.

Don't get me wrong i've owned Apple products but I don't care for their "we're perfect and they're not" attitude.

I agree with your statement 100%.

newtekie1What exactly do you think drivers are? Software and usually 3rd party software at that.

I love this fanboi kind of double talk though. I'm not calling you a fanboi, I'm just saying your statement is the kind you hear out of fanbois a lot.

You start off you statement by applauding Apple for forcing incompatibilities with most hardware and software, then claim the PCs problem is incompatibility with hardware and software.:wtf: You can talk about incompatibilities until you are blue in the face, the fact of the matter is exactly as you state it, OSX is far less compatible with the hardware and software out on the market to day, which again leads back to my original point, it is exactly why they have the illusion of being better in terms of stability.

And PCs aren't nearly as picky. Apple shoved that "it just works" shit down our throats, and it clearly doesn't. You are correct, with Macs it either works or it doesn't, and the majority of the time it doesn't, but it is getting better every day. However, with PCs it just works the majority of the time, works but works pretty shitty some of the time, or doesn't work at all. At least if I walk into a computer store today I don't have to worry about looking on the package to make sure it will work with my PC, but I do have to looks on it to make sure it will work with my Mac.

Well coming from experience with my Mac for well over a year now, I haven't had any issues I've had with Windows in the past.

As for the pickiness of OSX, all that does is help keep it more stable. You walk into an Apple store, and you can find out right away if something will work with your Mac or it wont. This is the advantage of them refreshing their hardware maybe three times a year, tops. If you were to walk into Circuit City looking for a new component, you'd be faced with a wall of products that may or may not work based on your specifications. Rather than saying "I have an Imac from 2005 with a G5 Processor" you can say "well I have this HP..uh...forgot the model number" or "I have a bunch of parts that I put together."

Now of course, this is all from the stance of the "average user" who doesn't know jack about a computer and only cares if it works. Hardware afficionados look at it much deeper.

I'm just trying to show the other side of the story, and I fear I've gotten off topic a bit.

And by the way, I am far from an Apple fanboy. I think some aspects of their OS are wonderful, and I am very glad to have purchased a Mac. But I absolutely hate their marketing strategies, and how lots of Mac users get on their high-horse like they're immune to everything. I could go on for a while but this isn't the scope of the thread. BTW, I just ordered parts for a PC last week because I'm sick of not playing games! And some software for school doesn't work on Macs. They don't work for everything, but you can get them to work for most stuff.

I love how the first thing they do is call tech support. Typical Mac user. I'm sure they listened to iTunes while on hold with their new iPhone. Because, obviously ipods are SOOOOO last year.

RavenasGuess I don't pay much attention to Apple advertisement. I haven't had any problems with my MacBook Pro yet, but I haven't expected there to be any as I'm running a stable OS. I don't plan on upgrading anytime soon quite yet, but that's just a logical decision I make for all OSes that are just released.

I've had plenty of problems with my Mac, but then again I actually use it and put it to the test, just like my Windows machines. Most Mac users don't actively seek out alternative programs. They are perfectly happy using iTunes for their music, and Safari for their browser. Most Mac users won't plus hundreds of different pieces of hardware into their Mac to see if it will work. I do, and let me tell you, most don't work.

Rob!Well coming from experience with my Mac for well over a year now, I haven't had any issues I've had with Windows in the past.

As for the pickiness of OSX, all that does is help keep it more stable. You walk into an Apple store, and you can find out right away if something will work with your Mac or it wont. This is the advantage of them refreshing their hardware maybe three times a year, tops. If you were to walk into Circuit City looking for a new component, you'd be faced with a wall of products that may or may not work based on your specifications. Rather than saying "I have an Imac from 2005 with a G5 Processor" you can say "well I have this HP..uh...forgot the model number" or "I have a bunch of parts that I put together."

Now of course, this is all from the stance of the "average user" who doesn't know jack about a computer and only cares if it works. Hardware afficionados look at it much deeper.

I'm just trying to show the other side of the story, and I fear I've gotten off topic a bit.

And by the way, I am far from an Apple fanboy. I think some aspects of their OS are wonderful, and I am very glad to have purchased a Mac. But I absolutely hate their marketing strategies, and how lots of Mac users get on their high-horse like they're immune to everything. I could go on for a while but this isn't the scope of the thread. BTW, I just ordered parts for a PC last week because I'm sick of not playing games! And some software for school doesn't work on Macs. They don't work for everything, but you can get them to work for most stuff.

Only a year, wow, you really are experienced.:banghead: I'm going on my 6th year of supporting Macs through work.

Funny how you bring up walking into Apple stores. That is a great argument if you have one around you. The nearest one to me is 2 HOURS away. Guess what I do have very close to me though, a Circuit City. And the "average user" can walk in there and tell the person working there what they want to do and the person can direct them to the product to do it. Yes, surprisingly there will usually be more than one product available to do this task, unlike what you will find in an Apple store. But all of those products will work with a PC and will do the task the person wants. Oddly enough, if you tell that employee you have a Mac, chances are he wouldn't be able to pick out a product that would work without sitting there and reading through each box to see which is Mac compatible.

The great thing about PCs is it doesn't matter what you have inside of them. It doesn't matter what processor you have. You can just walk in the door and say "I run Windows" and that is good enough.

I never said you were a fanboi, I just stated that your original statement was very fanboi like.

newtekie1I've had plenty of problems with my Mac, but then again I actually use it and put it to the test, just like my Windows machines. Most Mac users don't actively seek out alternative programs. They are perfectly happy using iTunes for their music, and Safari for their browser. Most Mac users won't plus hundreds of different pieces of hardware into their Mac to see if it will work. I do, and let me tell you, most don't work.



Only a year, wow, you really are experienced.:banghead: I'm going on my 6th year of supporting Macs through work.

Funny how you bring up walking into Apple stores. That is a great argument if you have one around you. The nearest one to me is 2 HOURS away. Guess what I do have very close to me though, a Circuit City. And the "average user" can walk in there and tell the person working there what they want to do and the person can direct them to the product to do it. Yes, surprisingly there will usually be more than one product available to do this task, unlike what you will find in an Apple store. But all of those products will work with a PC and will do the task the person wants. Oddly enough, if you tell that employee you have a Mac, chances are he wouldn't be able to pick out a product that would work without sitting there and reading through each box to see which is Mac compatible.

The great thing about PCs is it doesn't matter what you have inside of them. It doesn't matter what processor you have. You can just walk in the door and say "I run Windows" and that is good enough.

I never said you were a fanboi, I just stated that your original statement was very fanboi like.

Mac compatible is a marketing term on many components tho. On things like video cards, yes you have to buy a Mac specific component, or be willing to mod your cards firmware, or use a modified kext.

But things like hard drives, optical drives, ram, and cpus(for Intel Macs) drop right in. No need for that Mac sticker on the side of the box.

Then you have the things that need drivers. Wireless cards, USB periphials such as Video encoders, and things of that nature are a pain on Macs. But for standard PnP components, I've yet to have a problem.

newtekie1I've had plenty of problems with my Mac, but then again I actually use it and put it to the test, just like my Windows machines. Most Mac users don't actively seek out alternative programs. They are perfectly happy using iTunes for their music, and Safari for their browser. Most Mac users won't plus hundreds of different pieces of hardware into their Mac to see if it will work. I do, and let me tell you, most don't work.



Only a year, wow, you really are experienced.:banghead: I'm going on my 6th year of supporting Macs through work.

Funny how you bring up walking into Apple stores. That is a great argument if you have one around you. The nearest one to me is 2 HOURS away. Guess what I do have very close to me though, a Circuit City. And the "average user" can walk in there and tell the person working there what they want to do and the person can direct them to the product to do it. Yes, surprisingly there will usually be more than one product available to do this task, unlike what you will find in an Apple store. But all of those products will work with a PC and will do the task the person wants. Oddly enough, if you tell that employee you have a Mac, chances are he wouldn't be able to pick out a product that would work without sitting there and reading through each box to see which is Mac compatible.

The great thing about PCs is it doesn't matter what you have inside of them. It doesn't matter what processor you have. You can just walk in the door and say "I run Windows" and that is good enough.

I never said you were a fanboi, I just stated that your original statement was very fanboi like.

I never ask employees for help at a store, I do my homework before I go. Therefore, it really wouldn't matter what the store is, because I'm not going to go there unless they have my product. If I had to drive 2 hours to goto an Apple store to buy products, I would just simply buy them off the internet. Therefore, I would never think of walking into a store and saying "I run Windows" (if I did, I would probably be looked at like a dumbass for saying that for no apparent reason :laugh:).

www.engadget.com/2007/10/28/getting-leopards-bsod-try-uninstalling-ape/

It seems the people having problems are the ones that use things that actually patch the core of the OS. Unsanity's APE is being blamed for many of the problems.

I'm glad I don't install kernel modifying software on any of my OSes. Looks like I'll be upgrading sometime tonight.

Let's not all forget what this topic is about... It's about Apple's lame ass, lying marketing strategies. "It just works." - no, it doesn't just work. Macs still crash, give BSODs, and they only have a fraction of the compatability that Windows PCs do.


Every time I would explain to a Mac cult member why Macs were more 'stable' than PCs, they's just say "no, it's programmed better! and Power PC smokes Intel.". Now that BSODs are showing up with the growing mac market, I can officially say "what now, bitches!!!! :nutkick:"

p-p-p-p-PWNED!!

HelveticaLet's not all forget what this topic is about... It's about Apple's lame ass, lying marketing strategies. "It just works." - no, it doesn't just work. Macs still crash, give BSODs, and they only have a fraction of the compatability that Windows PCs do.

The Apple computers are not called "Macs". The term Mac is just short for their OS. Furthermore, I've been running Mac for a year now, and haven't had any of the above errors. As far as compatibility goes, that may be true but the only thing I have found wanting is the game community for Mac.

Do you own an Apple computer?

HelveticaLet's not all forget what this topic is about... It's about Apple's lame ass, lying marketing strategies. "It just works." - no, it doesn't just work. Macs still crash, give BSODs, and they only have a fraction of the compatability that Windows PCs do.

No, this article is about Leopard hanging on upgrading a modified OS. Some posters made it about Apple's marketing strategies. (Which, btw, I don't condone)

Everybody needs to stop jumping on the Apple-bashing bandwagon in this thread. Yeah, yeah, Apple's break, too. Yeah, we know the marketing dept is full of crap. Everyone needs to quit dragging it out. Let's just get down to figuring out the problem, and fixing it.

Well, just finished Upgrading to 10.5. No issues here. Seems a bit snappier in usage, but ram usage has gone up compared to 10.4. 190MB on a fresh boot in 10.4 vs 260MB on 10.5.

The new features are nice, too. I'm digging the virtual desktops (spaces), and the new way the dock handles folders is nice as well.

Overall, I like it. We'll see how it pans out with more use tho.

newtekie1Why is it superior? It gives the illusion of superiority by not having 1/100th the number of add on applications for it, which means it only has to worry about 1/10,000th of the number of compatibility issues, but is it really superior in regards to the topic at hand? In terms of crashing and stability, which I state was all I was talking about, is the OS actually any better? Or does it just seem better because it has less chance of having a compatibility issue because it is compatible with far less software?

i think OSX is superior because it is based on the much stronger BSD. if the same number of applications were available and open to apple as they are windows id say apple has less likely a chance to crash because of its superior framework. that is why everyone is making a big deal over this one issue that effects a minority.

RavenasI never ask employees for help at a store, I do my homework before I go. Therefore, it really wouldn't matter what the store is, because I'm not going to go there unless they have my product. If I had to drive 2 hours to goto an Apple store to buy products, I would just simply buy them off the internet. Therefore, I would never think of walking into a store and saying "I run Windows" (if I did, I would probably be looked at like a dumbass for saying that for no apparent reason :laugh:).

Yes, so do I. But we are talking about the "average user", not people that know what they are doing and hang out on tech forums.

Easy Rhinoi think OSX is superior because it is based on the much stronger BSD. if the same number of applications were available and open to apple as they are windows id say apple has less likely a chance to crash because of its superior framework. that is why everyone is making a big deal over this one issue that effects a minority.

Just because you think it is superior doesn't mean it actually is. BSD appears superior because it isn't compatible with even a fraction of the things Windows is. If BSD had to support every single thing Windows did would it still be superior, in terms of stability as we are discussing it here?

RavenasThe Apple computers are not called "Macs". The term Mac is just short for their OS?

"Hi, I'm a Mac"

:laugh::laugh::laugh::nutkick:

Wile EEverybody needs to stop jumping on the Apple-bashing bandwagon in this thread. Yeah, yeah, Apple's break, too. Yeah, we know the marketing dept is full of crap. Everyone needs to quit dragging it out. Let's just get down to figuring out the problem, and fixing it.

It's not about apple bashing. It's about apple fanboys getting a taste of their own medicine. Everything APPLE fanboys have stood for is starting to turn around and bite them in the ass.

It's about Apple's marketing strategy bashing.... And it's about realizing the simple fact that Apple is no different than microsoft.

Wile ENo, this article is about Leopard hanging on upgrading a modified OS. [Regarding Unsanity's Application Enhancer (APE)]

"Uhm.. as long as you don't install apps? So the 6 useful apps for mac that you CAN do something with should not be used? Isn't that what you mac fan boys always make fun of US for as well? "Yeah, you guys have tons of software.. tons of CRAP software". But then it happens to YOU guys and the first thing you blame is the same thing that you just finished joking US for?

You guys really need to assemble so that you can get your insults correct... and not just to jerk each other off and compare .png dock icons."

newtekie1Yes, so do I. But we are talking about the "average user", not people that know what they are doing and hang out on tech forums.



Just because you think it is superior doesn't mean it actually is. BSD appears superior because it isn't compatible with even a fraction of the things Windows is. If BSD had to support every single thing Windows did would it still be superior, in terms of stability as we are discussing it here?

BSD would be far superior.

Easy RhinoBSD would be far superior.

No it wouldn't.

newtekie1No it wouldn't.

so you are saying that the BSD framework is not superior to Windows?

HelveticaIt's not about apple bashing. It's about apple fanboys getting a taste of their own medicine. Everything APPLE fanboys have stood for is starting to turn around and bite them in the ass.

It's about Apple's marketing strategy bashing.... And it's about realizing the simple fact that Apple is no different than microsoft.



"Uhm.. as long as you don't install apps? So the 6 useful apps for mac that you CAN do something with should not be used? Isn't that what you mac fan boys always make fun of US for as well? "Yeah, you guys have tons of software.. tons of CRAP software". But then it happens to YOU guys and the first thing you blame is the same thing that you just finished joking US for?

You guys really need to assemble so that you can get your insults correct... and not just to jerk each other off and compare .png dock icons."

And your comments aren't worth any more than the Apple fanboy comments. Haters are just as bad as fanboys. I don't fall into the blaming or fanboy category, in case you didn't notice. Never once did I say Apple or OSX is superior to PCs or Windows. In fact, I recall agreeing that Apples break, and that I don't condone their marketing tactics. I think it's stupid to install any program that modifies the core of an OS, regardless of the OS. You won't find things like Windows Blinds on my PC. I think you need to redirect your comments to someone else, that actually has said those things.

And no, this thread is not supposed to be about sticking it to the fanboys or about bashing Apple. It's about a problem with upgrading software. Some people turned it into an Apple bashing thread. Pwned and nutkick smilies aren't exactly intelligent or useful comments. (Not directed at you, Helvetica)