Friday, January 18th 2008

New Blu-ray 2.0 Spec Makes PS3 the Most Future-proof Player

With an unexpected announcement from Warner stating that the company would issue its movies on Blu-ray, the high-definition format war is over for many.

A new definition of Blu-ray is coming up, namely "Blu-ray 2.0". The 2.0 profile brings picture-in-picture and online functionality to Blu-ray discs; these movies will have "BD-Live" stickers on the case so you know certain features will require 2.0-compliant players.

Currently, the Playstation 3 is the only Blu-ray 2.0-compatible player available.

Below is a summary of the different requirements for the several Blu-ray standards:
  • 1.0 is the launch profile, and secondary audio and video decoders are optional, as is local storage and network connectivity. The majority of standalone players fit into this category.
  • 1.1 is the newer profile, and to take advantage of these discs, players need a secondary audio and video decoder to handle picture-in-picture, as well as at least 256MB of local storage for content.
  • 2.0 is the profile of the future, requiring the two secondary decoders, 1GB of local storage for updates and content, and an Internet connection.
Source: Arstechnica
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50 Comments on New Blu-ray 2.0 Spec Makes PS3 the Most Future-proof Player

#2
effmaster
Ravenas said:
This war is already over, Bluray is the clear winner and all of the publishers are coming out and saying it.
Thats funny because both Universal and Paramount still have said they will still only support HD DVD for the time being. Whether or not they switch after their contracts are up who knows but what you say right now is not totally true at this moment.


Ravenas said:
Right now, Toshiba is just hurting people by keeping their product on the market.
Not really considering their HD DVD players are pretty good prices for DVD upconverters still. And from the so called publications most HD DVD players still upconvert better than most other Blu ray ones (I dont know how much truth there is in the toshibas being better but I have heard some sites state that before)



Ravenas said:
People are going to be pissed when their player goes obsolete just because Toshiba won't stop production because they are in debt. :shadedshu
People are actually already pissed and not because of what Toshiba did but what Warner did. And Toshiba is not in debt at all silly. It is way too powerful of a company to be in debt. And remember Microsoft is still with HD DVD. Some people may say it is too prolong the format war simply in order to help themselves get online movie downloading going strong. (which I really do not beleive.) But lets say that hypothetically they are there with HD DVD to further stall this format war. They are not even close to ready to have online downloading ready for primetime as of yet. So do you really think that they would just stand around and watch HD DVD's demise happen right before its eyes? Well I for one wouldnt think so. They have more money saved away in their coffers for just such an occasion than either you or I could even imagine combined. Dont call HD DVD a dead format or a dying format when it is not.
Posted on Reply
#3
spacejunky
Easy Rhino said:
uhm...and hd-dvd didnt offer money to keep them? per the nytimes...

Money was an issue. Toshiba offered to pay Warner Brothers substantial incentives to come down on its side — just as it gave Paramount and DreamWorks Animation a combined $150 million in financial incentives for their business, according to two executives with knowledge of the talks who asked not to be identified.

Kevin Tsujihara, president of the Warner Brothers Home Entertainment Group, declined to comment on whether any payments were offered for support of Blu-ray. “This market is absolutely critical to our future growth,” he said in a telephone interview. “You couldn’t put a number on that.”

that is business, grow up. we dont have to buy blu-ray movies, we dont have to rent blu-ray movies. we can all be happy with our current dvd format. nobody is forcing us to watch HD programming. we can turn the tv off and go ride a bike. yet we dont. sony wins and pays a hefty price for it. that is business and if you dont like it then you dont have to watch blu-ray movies. you gotta pay to play with the big boys. hd-dvd will always be around and will find its own niche which is only natural in a free market. dont worry, the price of blu-ray for consumers wont be beyond anything we consumers will not pay.
So you are saying that you have to be a big boy to survive in business because it is all about who can pay the most to standardize an industry? That seems anticompetitive/illegal. What if some guy figured out how to compress HD onto a std DVD with no loss but it got squashed because he couldn't round up the finances to compete with a multi-billion dollar corporation?

I know that the free market is based on competition, consumer choice, and profitability. This guise of subsidizing is bogus and extremely anti-competitive. In this format war, neither side should be doing it and the Movie producers should stay out of it. Let the consumer decide otherwise the costs will be passed on to us. By letting the consumer decide means lowering prices and coming out with better features than ring-tones on your TV.

I see no reason why there should be any BR fan boys as there is no real difference in movie quality and who cares about the extra space when all it is used for are trailers and silly games. Is it possible you're attempting to rationalize your $500 console purchase by saying to yourself, "See. I made the right choice"?

BTW this war isn't over and will probably never be over until someone figures out how to stream about 45Mb/s over the Internet to thousands of people or a better CODEC is created.
Posted on Reply
#4
Easy Rhino
Linux Advocate
effmaster said:
I dont think any Blu ray owner or HD DVD owner would ever pay what they are asking for, for something like this:

http://www.moviesunlimited.com/musite/product.asp?sku=B11052
lost season 3 on blu-ray is $100 and it has been selling well. but that is not the point. if people dont pay that price then they have to lower the price. it is simple economics. they will then have to find a cheaper way to produce it. alot of the "blu-ray will cost so much monez!!!!!" is hd-dvd group fear mongering. if we dont buy it then sony wont make a profit.
Posted on Reply
#5
Easy Rhino
Linux Advocate
spacejunky said:
So you are saying that you have to be a big boy to survive in business because it is all about who can pay the most to standardize an industry? That seems anticompetitive/illegal. What if some guy figured out how to compress HD onto a std DVD with no loss but it got squashed because he couldn't round up the finances to compete with a multi-billion dollar corporation?
when it comes to something as important as next gen video then yes it is about paying to standardize the industry. toshiba was doing the same damn thing but got beat. it isnt anti-competitive and it isnt illegal. and if some guy figured out how to put an HD movie on a standard dvd and it got squashed i would say it was because he sold out to the big companies. that is how it works. somebody comes up with a better idea and instantly sells it for cash. people are greedy. welcome to the real world. that person didnt have to sell it.
I know that the free market is based on competition, consumer choice, and profitability. This guise of subsidizing is bogus and extremely anti-competitive. In this format war, neither side should be doing it and the Movie producers should stay out of it. Let the consumer decide otherwise the costs will be passed on to us. By letting the consumer decide means lowering prices and coming out with better features than ring-tones on your TV.
but who is the consumer? movie companies are consumers as well and have their own interests to think of. and we, the end users, still have a say. if you dont like that blu-ray will be the standard for HD movies then dont buy it. if enough people believe as you do then obviously blu-ray will die and HD-DVD will live.
I see no reason why there should be any BR fan boys as there is no real difference in movie quality and who cares about the extra space when all it is used for are trailers and silly games. Is it possible you're attempting to rationalize your $500 console purchase by saying to yourself, "See. I made the right choice"?
im a blu-ray fan boy because i like sony and i like the companies that were backing blu-ray. plus i have money invested in these companies. that is my perogative and i am entitled to it.yes i own a ps3 and yes i am glad blu-ray has essentially won but i dont use it to justify my $500 console. it is only 1 of the many reasons i bought the ps3.
BTW this war isn't over and will probably never be over until someone figures out how to stream about 45Mb/s over the Internet to thousands of people or a better CODEC is created.
i agree. HD-DVD will be around as long as there is HD content out there. and once technology improves and we can steam 45Mb/s over the net im sure other formats will arise. but for now blu-ray is dominating the HD movie market. you can either fight it and boycott sony and all of its products or you can embrace it and see how it all pans out.
Posted on Reply
#6
spacejunky
Easy Rhino said:
i agree. HD-DVD will be around as long as there is HD content out there. and once technology improves and we can steam 45Mb/s over the net im sure other formats will arise. but for now blu-ray is dominating the HD movie market. you can either fight it and boycott sony and all of its products or you can embrace it and see how it all pans out.
I don't embrace it but I have a BR/HD combo player so I do get both formats of movies. Historically, Sony has always looked for a market they can corner and when they try to force everyone to do things their way, (like Apple), they have ultimately failed. Apple can pull it off but Sony can't.
Posted on Reply
#7
effmaster
spacejunky said:
I don't embrace it but I have a BR/HD combo player so I do get both formats of movies. Historically, Sony has always looked for a market they can corner and when they try to force everyone to do things their way, (like Apple), they have ultimately failed. Apple can pull it off but Sony can't.
Because mamny an apple fan will tell you that they are paying for sexy, with Sony your not paying for sexy. lol
Posted on Reply
#8
Ravenas
effmaster said:
Thats funny because both Universal and Paramount still have said they will still only support HD DVD for the time being. Whether or not they switch after their contracts are up who knows but what you say right now is not totally true at this moment.




Not really considering their HD DVD players are pretty good prices for DVD upconverters still. And from the so called publications most HD DVD players still upconvert better than most other Blu ray ones (I dont know how much truth there is in the toshibas being better but I have heard some sites state that before)





People are actually already pissed and not because of what Toshiba did but what Warner did. And Toshiba is not in debt at all silly. It is way too powerful of a company to be in debt. And remember Microsoft is still with HD DVD. Some people may say it is too prolong the format war simply in order to help themselves get online movie downloading going strong. (which I really do not beleive.) But lets say that hypothetically they are there with HD DVD to further stall this format war. They are not even close to ready to have online downloading ready for primetime as of yet. So do you really think that they would just stand around and watch HD DVD's demise happen right before its eyes? Well I for one wouldnt think so. They have more money saved away in their coffers for just such an occasion than either you or I could even imagine combined. Dont call HD DVD a dead format or a dying format when it is not.
Lol I don't really care that much anymore. The war is over... Just give it up man. Argueing is over, it's really getting kinda annoying every format thread you come in here and ignite a flame war. I'm done talking with you because you can't just talk, you have to start a flame war every conversation. I have no problems with you, just cool it with the same conversations over and over. I just don't care anymore lol :toast:
Posted on Reply
#9
MilkyWay
well its not a surprise that every ps3 owner supports blu ray or that most if not nearly all blu ray supporters have a ps3

honestly blu ray is unessential and a waste of time when you can get a cheaper hd format that has the same quality for less price

well i guess that every single fanboy of blu ray will disagree but thats because fan boys are stubborn

i just buy in an economical and sane way

i think that when i buy i look for the best value for money so if your only losing out on a few features but the price is way cheaper that how i think also if its only a little more for the better version or more features then i buy that i dont just buy the dearest one i think those that dont buy like this are wasting money and resources that could be put to better use

its like hd dvd its cheaper but has the same quality right i have the ability to buy more movies if i save money on the player now if blu ray had better quality movies and was only a few more £ then it would be more economical to buy

there are such things as buying games for example i wouldnt pay for unreal tournament on my console because its half the price on PC right

i would buy an ati 3870 over a 3850 because its not that much more and is the powerfuller card!
Posted on Reply
#10
Easy Rhino
Linux Advocate
spacejunky said:
I don't embrace it but I have a BR/HD combo player so I do get both formats of movies. Historically, Sony has always looked for a market they can corner and when they try to force everyone to do things their way, (like Apple), they have ultimately failed. Apple can pull it off but Sony can't.
sony has taken a lot of losses but they really payed out for this so i tell them congrats. money isnt the only reason movie studios are backing blu-ray. in business the most stable company usually gets the best backing. toshiba and its motely crew cant stand up to industry giant sony so it makes sense to align yourself with the leader. btw, apple has hardly failed.
Posted on Reply
#11
Ravenas
@[USER=42488]spacejunky[/USER]: Sony doesn't force things on you, lets take the PS3 for example:

The ps3 can use ANY bluetooth mic. The xbox 360 can only use MS headsets (and off brands) that have the proprietary ports.

The ps3 can use ANY 2.5" HD. The xbox 360 makes you use MS's HD.

The ps3 can use any linux distro. The xbox 360 won't.

The ps3 can use many many many stream formats, you can connect macs and PCs. Xbox won't do that.

Totally flawed arguement man, sorry to say.
Posted on Reply
#12
Easy Rhino
Linux Advocate
Ravenas said:
@spacejunky: Sony doesn't force things on you, lets take the PS3 for example:

The ps3 can use ANY bluetooth mic. The xbox 360 can only use MS headsets (and off brands) that have the proprietary ports.

The ps3 can use ANY 2.5" HD. The xbox 360 makes you use MS's HD.

The ps3 can use any linux distro. The xbox 360 won't.

The ps3 can use many many many stream formats, you can connect macs and PCs. Xbox won't do that.

Totally flawed arguement man, sorry to say.
:respect:
Posted on Reply
#13
effmaster
Ravenas said:
Lol The war is over... Just give it up man.
This war has never been over dumbass:slap:
Posted on Reply
#14
Ravenas
effmaster said:
This war has never been over dumbass:slap:
Good to know. :toast:
Posted on Reply
#15
effmaster
Ravenas said:
@spacejunky: Sony doesn't force things on you, lets take the PS3 for example:

The ps3 can use ANY bluetooth mic. The xbox 360 can only use MS headsets (and off brands) that have the proprietary ports.

The ps3 can use ANY 2.5" HD. The xbox 360 makes you use MS's HD.

The ps3 can use any linux distro. The xbox 360 won't.

The ps3 can use many many many stream formats, you can connect macs and PCs. Xbox won't do that.

Totally flawed arguement man, sorry to say.
People can hack their 360 harddrives if they want a different sized one.

Linux isnt worth it to 95% of the PS3 fanbase since they dont even use limux except for maybe a handful of them.

Now lets see about the Bluetooth. Last time I checked Bluetooth was way more expensive than traditional wireless ever was.

Now heres what Sony forces on its PS3 fanbase:
Blu ray
Six axis
Crappy servers on its online program for multiplayer
No more PS2 Backwards compatibility. (at least Microsoft is still working on getting as many xbox games to work on the 360 as possible.)
Posted on Reply
#16
Ravenas
effmaster said:
People can hack their 360 harddrives if they want a different sized one.

Linux isnt worth it to 95% of the PS3 fanbase since they dont even use limux except for maybe a handful of them.

Now lets see about the Bluetooth. Last time I checked Bluetooth was way more expensive than traditional wireless ever was.

Now heres what Sony forces on its PS3 fanbase:
Blu ray
Six axis
Crappy servers on its online program for multiplayer
No more PS2 Backwards compatibility. (at least Microsoft is still working on getting as many xbox games to work on the 360 as possible.)
The blu-tooth headset i got was a jabra for 20$ plus it's wireless bluetooth(if 20$ is expensive than this must be a fortune to you: Wireless xbox 360 headset). Works perfect.

Why would I want to have to "hack" my harddrive?...(plus most likely void my warranty)

Those stats on Linux are made up out of thin air, did you conduct a research study?

Saying sixaxis is forced on the user is like saying the rumble on the 360 is forced on you. Dualshock3 is coming to PS3 in the spring. (Many games have the ability to turn Sixaxis on and off, and the rumble option will be able to be turned on and off also).

Micrsoft has had 2 consoles only. One of which they don't sell now. Sony has had 3 consoles, one which they don't sell anymore (PS1) and one that they do (PS2). One PS3 model offers backwards PS2 capablity (for extra money and it comes with a bigger HD) and one doesn't. Both models have PS1 compability with upscaling enabled and PS smoothing if you so choose. The fact is, you have the choice to get what you want with Sony. Sony is giving you so much choice here it's not even funny.

The blu-ray isn't forced on you because all of the games are in blu-ray format with single layer 25gb space.

THE PSN network is completely lag free on every game I play. Go try it sometime. And it's free! :rockout:

Let's talk about UT3. You have the choice to use the controller or a keyboard/mouse. You can even map all of your keys.'

Sony gives you so much choice it's not even funny.
Posted on Reply
#17
WarEagleAU
Bird of Prey
Hate to side against my fellow Alabamian but Ravenas is right.
Posted on Reply
#18
Xaser04
kieran_fletch said:
well its not a surprise that every ps3 owner supports blu ray or that most if not nearly all blu ray supporters have a ps3
Or of course god forbid it could actually be that the PS3 happens to be one of the best blu-ray players on the market whilst also being one of the cheapest.

Additionally I am a PS3 owner and I don't particularly support either HD format at the moment. I just get Blu-ray movies if I want them (planet earth for example) simply because I am not spending an extra 100 quid to get the HD-DVD add on for my 360.

More to the point why should I when my PS3 already has blu-ray built in?!
i would buy an ati 3870 over a 3850 because its not that much more and is the powerfuller card!
WTF?! powerfuller?! I take it you mean the more powerful card?
Posted on Reply
#19
sethk
effmaster said:
So do you really think that they would just stand around and watch HD DVD's demise happen right before its eyes?
Yes I do. They would prefer Blu-Ray and Sony not take over the market, but that's about the extent of it. They have, are and will continue to not take bigger steps to keep HD-DVD alive. They could have offered their own console SKU with HD-DVD built in to compete with the PS3 but as an owner of the HD-DVD addon as well as a PS3 owner, the 360 is a much clumsier solution. It is slow to respond to remote inputs, it can't process or output the full definition audio, instead downconverting it to AC3 and you don't have as many video optimization settings as in the PS3. They have deep pockets - they could have paid Warner as much as Sony did. They could offer built in HD-DVD playback support in Vista.
Posted on Reply
#20
newtekie1
Semi-Retired Folder
effmaster said:
People can hack their 360 harddrives if they want a different sized one.

Linux isnt worth it to 95% of the PS3 fanbase since they dont even use limux except for maybe a handful of them.

Now lets see about the Bluetooth. Last time I checked Bluetooth was way more expensive than traditional wireless ever was.

Now heres what Sony forces on its PS3 fanbase:
Blu ray
Six axis
Crappy servers on its online program for multiplayer
No more PS2 Backwards compatibility. (at least Microsoft is still working on getting as many xbox games to work on the 360 as possible.)
Wow, that is possible the most BS post I have ever seen.

Sony is forcing Blu-Ray on us? That is like saying Microsoft is forcing the DVD standard on us, or they all are forcing the CD standard on us. You aren't forced to buy Blu-Ray movies, giving people the option to do it isn't forcing it on them.

Six Axis isn't a forced option, I haven't played a game yet that forces you to use the Six Axis controls. Every game that has used it gives you the option to turn it off if you wish.

The PS3 still has PS2 compatibility, Sony now gives you the option to get a console with it, or not. How is that forcing anything on the consumer? Funny, when they include a feature(Blu-Ray) you say they are forcing it on us, and when they don't include a feature(PS2 compatibility) you say they are forcing that on us too, even when they give you the option to still have the feature. And isn't the 80GB PS3 compatible with more PS2 games than the Xbox360 is with Xbox games? I think so.

At least Sony isn't forcing Xbox-Live down their consumers throats.
Posted on Reply
#21
ChillyMyst
screw them all, somebody just needs to bring out a dvd player that supports mkv/ogm/mp4 containers as well as h264 video and various audio tracks(mp3,aac,ogg,exct) we would see HD movies avalable on normal dvd's at the 4gb range, dual layer for extras.

honestly you can encode a 1080p movie down to 3-4gb without quility loss given proper settings, i have done it, its slow on current systems/cpu's but given proper hardware encoder support it could be done EASLY by companys and they could sell movies at lower cost because honestly dvd's(disks) and the readers(players) are cheaper to make, even with a hardware h264 decoder, hell they could use the via c7 1.5gz cpu to decode the video and audio and support any type of files needed and even allow updates to support newer codecs, and it would still be cheaper then hd-dvd or blu-ray is now.

if i had the $ i would design a player and convence a company to produce it, most expencive part of the new HD standreds is the player/reader not the decoders.
Posted on Reply
#22
spacejunky
Easy Rhino said:
sony has taken a lot of losses but they really payed out for this so i tell them congrats. money isnt the only reason movie studios are backing blu-ray. in business the most stable company usually gets the best backing. toshiba and its motely crew cant stand up to industry giant sony so it makes sense to align yourself with the leader. btw, apple has hardly failed.
I guess I should have phrased that differently. I meant that Sony is trying to be like Apple. And Sony has failed at their attempts to be like Apple. Apple can pull it off but Sony can't.
Posted on Reply
#23
ChillyMyst
what sony wants the image of being for weird excentric people who like to spend to much $ for something that puts form over function(common....those mac mice suck.....cold fingers=they dont work.....)
Posted on Reply
#24
spacejunky
Ravenas said:
@spacejunky: Sony doesn't force things on you, lets take the PS3 for example:

The ps3 can use ANY bluetooth mic. The xbox 360 can only use MS headsets (and off brands) that have the proprietary ports.

The ps3 can use ANY 2.5" HD. The xbox 360 makes you use MS's HD.

The ps3 can use any linux distro. The xbox 360 won't.

The ps3 can use many many many stream formats, you can connect macs and PCs. Xbox won't do that.

Totally flawed arguement man, sorry to say.
When did I ever argue for the XBOX vs PS3??
I thought this was a forum about Blu-Ray.

This forum was about BR 2.0. It is saying that previous consoles will have a problem. This is only the begining. Sony will try to use it to force everyone to buy a PS3 just to watch BR movies. I'll probably never buy a PS3. The games suck except for UT which I have on my desktop pc.
Yes! The PS3 games suck. Here's proof.

Like effmaster said, no PS2 game compatibility is proof of Sony's intentions. They want you ditch your PS2 and all of your PS2 games and buy a PS3 with all new games. Do you also see the parallel with no two sided Blu-Ray/DVD discs? (I know BR discs have a different process than DVD and HD-DVD but you should know that it could have been done.) Nothing wrong with that business model but it has never worked for Sony because it leaves the door open for the competition which historically has been their downfall. This must be the business strategy in Japan MBA schools. Why don't they just try to beat the competition by making a better product? It worked pretty well for them with the PS2.

BTW. You can connect the XBOX HD-DVD Rom to your PC which I think is very cool for $129.
Posted on Reply
#25
spacejunky
ChillyMyst said:
screw them all, somebody just needs to bring out a dvd player that supports mkv/ogm/mp4 containers as well as h264 video and various audio tracks(mp3,aac,ogg,exct) we would see HD movies avalable on normal dvd's at the 4gb range, dual layer for extras.

honestly you can encode a 1080p movie down to 3-4gb without quility loss given proper settings, i have done it, its slow on current systems/cpu's but given proper hardware encoder support it could be done EASLY by companys and they could sell movies at lower cost because honestly dvd's(disks) and the readers(players) are cheaper to make, even with a hardware h264 decoder, hell they could use the via c7 1.5gz cpu to decode the video and audio and support any type of files needed and even allow updates to support newer codecs, and it would still be cheaper then hd-dvd or blu-ray is now.

if i had the $ i would design a player and convence a company to produce it, most expencive part of the new HD standreds is the player/reader not the decoders.
You don't happen to work out of a garage do you? j/k
I wish someone would bundle that up in a nice package. If Sony were smart, they would have saved a billion or two and the industry would have sold a few hundred million more HD movies to date with a premium.
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