flashstarHis motives are relevant. If Al Gore made an Inconvenient Truth only to make a boatload of cash without correct scientific data, then thousands of people have been deceived. The average Joe won't go out to independent scientific sources to verify Gore's claims. He will just assume that Al is correct. If anything, Al Gore has harmed our economy while making a ton of dough for himself. I'm not against making money by any means, but it is unacceptable if you are hurting your country in the process. Unfortunately, that seems to be a common theme among liberals.

That's the average Joe's fault then for not finding things out for themselves. Politicians lie, I thought that was common knowledge. He's no different than any other. We can only do what we can to acsertain what is the truth and what is not, what Al Gore says about global warming matters not if he is not part of the scientific community. There are many many more politicans who have hurt the country far worse for personal monetary gain, don't be too conservative.

zitheThe 1c drop was all over the news, surprisingly. The fact that last years global temperature average was 1c lower than the year before was what I was trying to point out. The graphs in wikipedia show it takes nearly 2 centuries to get that large of a temperature change,

Oh and epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=53DE09DC-802A-23AD-4EC4-C8ACCD44A47D
and then blog.wired.com/defense/2008/06/army-vs-global.html
Can't forget this one epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=5CEAEDB7-802A-23AD-4BFE-9E32747616F9
and last epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=A17DEFA8-802A-23AD-4912-8AB7138A7C3F

If those sources aren't reliable then I don't know what is.

K well now I'm confused, b/c you are now taking info from the mass media? I thought they lied? Those links are blogs, I don't think I need to say more (although I am not saying they are lies).

Your explanation is pretty clear, but no matter how I look at it, .5 isn't a significant or rapid change. Perhaps if it were 5 degrees as opposed to a half of a degree, I might be inclined to agree with you, but as it stands, nothing can make .5 degrees significant in my mind. Unless, of course, somebody can point me to something that actually proves that small change makes a significant impact on the environment.

farlex85That's the average Joe's fault then for not finding things out for themselves. Politicians lie, I thought that was common knowledge. He's no different than any other. We can only do what we can to acsertain what is the truth and what is not, what Al Gore says about global warming matters not if he is not part of the scientific community. There are many many more politicans who have hurt the country far worse for personal monetary gain, don't be too conservative.

Global warming IS hurting the economy. Corn was wasted on ethonol, something that actually DOES increase temperatures (Water vapor = increased humidity) and caused food shortages. Not trying to offend anyone, but the Arabian countries are trying to drive the rest of the world's oil prices up by not selling a whole lot of it.

Off-topic for a moment.. Has anyone heard that scientists have found out that if you feed this insect certain foods it excretes usable petroleum? They're working on getting that going. (More of an economy related issue)

farlex85K well now I'm confused, b/c you are now taking info from the mass media? I thought they lied? Those links are blogs, I don't think I need to say more (although I am not saying they are lies).

Oh I'm sorry. I didn't know the US Senate Committee was just another online newspaper.
OK. Ignore the 1 link that isn't government-involved. Just because it's a blog completely throws away any credibility of the article I guess.

Edit: I'm going to bed now. I'll wake up and reply in the morning.

Wile EYour explanation is pretty clear, but no matter how I look at it, .5 isn't a significant or rapid change. Perhaps if it were 5 degrees as opposed to a half of a degree, I might be inclined to agree with you, but as it stands, nothing can make .5 degrees significant in my mind. Unless, of course, somebody can point me to something that actually proves that small change makes a significant impact on the environment.

.5 is significant b/c it's more than usually happens in that period of time (estimated at least). The effects on the enviornment aren't drastic, but subtle at that point. Drier inland, lower ice-caps, certain subtle climate shifts, stuff like that. Which has happened. The main debate is over how much this trend will continue, or accelerate. B/c if it were to speed up to say 3 or 4 degrees in 100 years, the climate shift would be very noticeable, and difficult to cope w/.

zitheGlobal warming IS hurting the economy. Corn was wasted on ethonol, something that actually DOES increase temperatures (Water vapor = increased humidity) and caused food shortages. Not trying to offend anyone, but the Arabian countries are trying to drive the rest of the world's oil prices up by not selling a whole lot of it.

Off-topic for a moment.. Has anyone heard that scientists have found out that if you feed this insect certain foods it excretes usable petroleum? They're working on getting that going. (More of an economy related issue)



Oh I'm sorry. I didn't know the US Senate Committee was just another online newspaper.
OK. Ignore the 1 link that isn't government-involved. Just because it's a blog completely throws away any credibility of the article I guess.

Edit: I'm going to bed now. I'll wake up and reply in the morning.

It's worse than just another online newspaper, it's political. There are alterior motives there, they are not just trying to spread factual information, not to say they are worthless, there is certainly some good info there. And yes, when speaking of scientific matters, I think the fact that it is a blog does remove it's credibility. It means it wasn't reviewed or edited by an outside source before making it there. I wouldn't use them as arguments.

I haven't heard about that insect you speak of, I'd certainly like to though, definitely link some info on that. And the middle-easter and arabian countries are claiming the skyrocketing prices are not b/c they are not selling enough, but b/c of the failing US dollar and economic situations here. I don't trust that explanation or our own gov't's completely, but what can you do?

meh im still using CRT i like it more than LCD anyway, i just want a 22in CRT

spacejunkyI just saw what your politicians did about it...they decided to increase taxes! great! let's not solve the problem, if there is one, instead let's make money off it. Yeah your great country has the solution all right. How does a 20% hike in your food prices sound due to your taxes?

Droughts? In Dallas, TX we have had droughts every 2 years for the last 10!

They have you so scared over there that you will be happy to pay your inflated prices and not revolt over the tax increase to the producers that is being passed on to you the consumer.

How much CO2 is released when a volcano erupts? Speaking of volcanos...read about the ones under the Arctic Funny how the scientists are quick to dismiss it against global warming...why? can't make any money off a volcano.

We aren't as greedy and inconsiderate as you have been led to believe. We care about the enviro but most of us did not buy LCDs to better it. We bought them to save space. The assumptions the liberal media makes are funny. The assumptions you make are even funnier. I hope you do feel sick about the mess. Your government has taken advantage of you and you are proud about it. Why do they need to tax carbon output? Why not just tax the input? Why tax individuals and then give it back? Why not just tax the producers? Do you really think you will get your money back? HAHA good luck.

Here's a link for those that are interested in what is going on in Australia.

Err no drought = less food produced. Half the fucking farms here are defunct thanks to the dought.

Wile EI still fail to see how .5 is substantial in any way, regardless of area. I don't know if I'm misinterpreting something, but that just seems minimal to me.

.5 *C higher average for a year can go a LONG way. Example, ice sheets, that 0.5 may weaken the ice sheets around the poles enough to crack them. Thats occured in antarctica over the past few years, ice sheets giving into stress MUCH earlier than predicted.


Oh yes. I heard. Your droughts in the US are a couple of days without rain.

Our droughts = weeks - months of no rain and scorching hot and dry conditions. The drought preceeding the current one, there was only what one month between them!

Since you guys arent on the recieving end you guys don't care. Its you guys in the US who usually deny or downplay the significance of global warming. People from the rest of the world, the UK, Australia, new zealand, etcetera, ALL realise it.

I'm not anti US, i like the food (maccas ftw), i like the culture, i like the stuff that comes out of it. I just don't like how the government makes you guys think.

Your arguments that tax etc, is for greed is invalid. Its saying "Global warming doesnt exist because there is money".

tkpenalty.5 *C higher average for a year can go a LONG way. Example, ice sheets, that 0.5 may weaken the ice sheets around the poles enough to crack them. Thats occured in antarctica over the past few years, ice sheets giving into stress MUCH earlier than predicted.


Oh yes. I heard. Your droughts in the US are a couple of days without rain.

Our droughts = weeks - months of no rain and scorching hot and dry conditions. The drought preceeding the current one, there was only what one month between them!

Since you guys arent on the recieving end you guys don't care. Its you guys in the US who usually deny or downplay the significance of global warming. People from the rest of the world, the UK, Australia, new zealand, etcetera, ALL realise it.

I'm not anti US, i like the food (maccas ftw), i like the culture, i like the stuff that comes out of it. I just don't like how the government makes you guys think.

Your arguments that tax etc, is for greed is invalid. Its saying "Global warming doesnt exist because there is money".

There's no evidence to support that ice sheets cracking at the poles are cause from the whopping .5 degree change in temperature. -50C + .5C still equals -49.5C.

And you aren't feeling the difference that .5C has given you. .5C is not enough to cause droughts. Your droughts are naturally occurring, and have nothing to do with "global warming".

And if global warming does exist, explain to me how this past year the average went down a degree, completely negating the .5C anyway.

If global warming does exist, it has nothing to do with man. It's cyclical.

I for one dont believe in the whole global warming/climate change crap.... why did they change it from global warming to climate change anyway?? The earths temperature always changes... its effected by the sun... always has been... always will be!!! The earth can heal itself.... we had an ice age around 10000 years ago.... were we to blame for that?? Damn those sabertooth tigers and mammoth elephants for not helping fight against the ice age!!!!

Those CFL/energy saving light bulbs have their good and bad points. Good that they might save you money on your electricity bill on the long run, bad that they contain Mercury and take ages to fully light up. If you break the CFL light bulb in your house you have to open the windows and doors and leave your house for a few hours to let the mercury out... out to the environment!!

The normal light bulbs are fine, if everyone was to change over from the normal lightbulbs to the CFL ones, their would be more waste from the changeover than a full landfill dump site!!!

Another thing that really gets up my nose is those "Green" cars... like the Toyota Prius..... the batteries that are in those cars use more chemicals and CO2 to make one of them than what the average "non-green" car outputs in one year.

Yes i believe in conserving our natural resources, but if all of those tree hugging "save our planet al gores types" want to really save it... then stop breathing!!! (We exhale CO2)

Heres an interesting concept to offput CO2... seen that everyone is on the bandwagon of it..... plant more trees...or.... stop the deforestation of the amazon.... Plants and trees need CO2 to survive... they take it in and convert it to oxegen... basic chemistry! cant remember but its something like 3-4 football fields are being cut down a day in the amazon.

Al Gore really annoys me..... jetting all over the planet telling us to stop polluting the planet... then he can jet back to his nice house with his electricity bill being paid for by the average joe...... also greenpeace can go fcuk themselves.... another waste of space orgainsation... best thing the French ever did was to sink that rust bucket that greenpeace was using to motor around the planet and tell us to stop polluting.

Anyone remember those concerts held last year (think it was last year, might be the year before) with all the rock stars bragging on about conserving energy and stop polluting and cut down CO2..... little hypocritical of them... flying all over the planet to a concert that using a MASSIVE amount of electricity... hmmm.... kettle.... pot.....black?????

.5C can cause some effects.... .5 in a CPU temp can cause effects.... but nothing drastic!!

Just did an image search in Google for the words "glacier melt" and came up with this:

images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.helpsavetheclimate.com/greenlandice1.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.helpsavetheclimate.com/climatechange1.html&h=269&w=300&sz=22&hl=en&start=11&tbnid=LWX_hg_hAhveGM:&tbnh=104&tbnw=116&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dglacier%2Bmelt%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG

The reason i searched for these 2 words in particular is because i've seen, in documentaries, how much have certain glaciers retreated in recent years. Unfortunately, i was unable to find the glacier pics i had seen in the documentary :(

0.5º doesn't seem like much but, when compared to the changes in the other time frames (see the charts in the link), you'll get an idea why it IS significant.

its just the end of the last iceage, this is the normal cycle of the planet get over it. Global Warming is a liberal farce meant to scare the mass's

tkpenaltyErr no drought = less food produced. Half the fucking farms here are defunct thanks to the dought.

I Really hate to tell you this, but Austrillia was never the best place in the world to farm, and where at the end of the last Ice Age, meaning its just gonna get hotter down there. I understand alot of yall where put there as exiles of the Brittish Government but wake up its a desert and that is growing its not global warming, its the end of the last iceage, and we go through these cycles about once every what 1 million years or so. The planet is about at the end of this age, in another thousand years the ice caps should have totally melted, which has happened before and will again, it has be proven most of this planet has been covered by water. But don't blame man for this cycle it was going on long before we got here and there is nothing we can do to stop it.

candle_86its just the end of the last iceage, this is the normal cycle of the planet get over it. Global Warming is a liberal farce meant to scare the mass's

It's not the increase that's the problem, dude: it's the time frame in which it occurred.

The Earth has had Ice Ages for millions of years: what it didn't have until recently (100 years or so), was a 3rd party factor (Man) helping in the global temperature increase.

The politicians (worldwide) are more interested in keeping their asses in power to look @ the middle / long term effects of what they are doing.

HTCIt's not the increase that's the problem, dude: it's the time frame in which it occurred.

The Earth has had Ice Ages for millions of years: what it didn't have until recently (100 years or so), was a 3rd party factor (Man) helping in the global temperature increase.

The politicians (worldwide) are more interested in keeping their asses in power to look @ the middle / long term effects of what they are doing.

And were we around to note how rapidly (or not) the temperatures changed when moving from one Global Climate to the next? How do you know this level of change isn't normal?

yes the planet is at the end of an ice age... yes the planet is going through cycles.... yes australia is majority a desert...... yes global warming/climate change... whatever the tree huggers wanna call is not man made!

Anyone here know their chemistry? i rememeber a lab experiement that was done in my chem lab when i was in secondary school (10 yrs ago).... CO2 is a heavy gas... how can i get up to the atmosphere?? Has CO2 lost weight?? Been to the gym??

It seems that if a scientist wasnt to get tonnes of funding or want their name on the latest edition of Scientist Weekly they just say that the study they want want to do, are doing or just finsished is related to climate change! BAM... instant funding....!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Cant beleive all our our tax dollars are going towards something we have literally no power over.... no control over.... and not our doing!!

Wile EAnd were we around to note how rapidly (or not) the temperatures changed when moving from one Global Climate to the next? How do you know this level of change isn't normal?

That can be measured ... in the Ice as well as other places:

Figure 5. Variations of the Earth's surface temperature over the last millennium. Data from thermometers (red), tree rings, corals, ice cores and historical records (blue). The year by year (blue curve) and 50 year average (black curve) variations of the average surface temperature of the Northern Hemisphere for the past 1000 years have been reconstructed from proxy data calibrated against thermometer data. Note: there is quite large uncertainty in proxy data for past climates, of the order of 0.5oC (adapted from IPCC, 2001)

Source: www.helpsavetheclimate.com

they don't thats the point, also prove to me its bad for the planet if it is off by 1000yrs because of man, considering the poles won't melt for another 10,000 years minimum and the jet stream should be good for another 13,000-14,000 years how does this affect us, and how is it bad for the planet honestly? Do you think when the earth gets flooded if man is even still here we won't have a way to leave the earth by then?

Even considering this a problem is like being concered that the sun is gonna go Nova or the Universe emplode one day. I don't waste my time considering what is going to happen i have better things to do. The only thing affected by this is guess what, life on the planet, which if life is here after the last ice age and if man survived the last iceage and we wore fur, don't you think even today we are equipped to handle it, heck think of all the fresh water we will have to drink and all the frozen fish, we won't even have to pay for plumbing and who needs to worry about food with millions of prefrozen uncooked fish, heck the next iceage is like the frozen meat section at the store. And well let it come, i got a blanket, and i got a heater, and i still have my Y2K stock of toliet paper

HTCThat can be measured ... in the Ice:




Source: www.helpsavetheclimate.com

I don't believe that for a second. They even admit it may not be accurate. The only way I'll believe this kind of data, is if somebody was there to actually record it at the time. Meaning we can't accurately go back far enough to determine what the global trends are. We can only guess at best.

ANyway, this is my last post on the subject. You all know my stance. Provide me with hard evidence, and I'll change my views. But until then, it's all just speculation.

HTCThat can be measured ... in the Ice as well as other places:




Source: www.helpsavetheclimate.com

amazing look where warming up, so what, as we said this is natural. know why you won't find proff though, it might have to do with when the last ice age ended the ice was gone, i dunno but just maybe thats why no ice cores are around. All you did was say what i said, where at the end of the iceage, thanks for proving the point. Now prove this rapid warming isnt indictive of the end of an iceage, go ahead find me proof


All i can say is clothing stores will sell less coats and more swim trunks, bout damn time to, its to cold in the winter for a proper BBQ

candle_86they don't thats the point, also prove to me its bad for the planet if it is off by 1000yrs because of man, considering the poles won't melt for another 10,000 years minimum and the jet stream should be good for another 13,000-14,000 years how does this affect us, and how is it bad for the planet honestly? Do you think when the earth gets flooded if man is even still here we won't have a way to leave the earth by then?

Even considering this a problem is like being concered that the sun is gonna go Nova or the Universe emplode one day. I don't waste my time considering what is going to happen i have better things to do. The only thing affected by this is guess what, life on the planet, which if life is here after the last ice age and if man survived the last iceage and we wore fur, don't you think even today we are equipped to handle it, heck think of all the fresh water we will have to drink and all the frozen fish, we won't even have to pay for plumbing and who needs to worry about food with millions of prefrozen uncooked fish, heck the next iceage is like the frozen meat section at the store. And well let it come, i got a blanket, and i got a heater, and i still have my Y2K stock of toliet paper

When will you be running for office? I mean: you think like a politician, so ...

EDIT

candle_86amazing look where warming up, so what, as we said this is natural. know why you won't find proff though, it might have to do with when the last ice age ended the ice was gone, i dunno but just maybe thats why no ice cores are around. All you did was say what i said, where at the end of the iceage, thanks for proving the point. Now prove this rapid warming isnt indictive of the end of an iceage, go ahead find me proff

Ofc it's natural: what's unnatural, as the pic clearly shows, is the time frame in which the increase took place.

you can't prevent the inevitable you can prepare or you can die, but you can't prevent, why is that so hard to grasp, also why should i care whats in 10,000 years, i doubt we as a race will even be here, either we will destory ourselves in war, or the biblical armagedon takes place.


As for Office, im not a politcian, i hate them, every last one of them, i just vote for the republican one because i hate them slighly less

HTCWhen will you be running for office? I mean: you think like a politician, so ...

EDIT



Ofc it's natural: what's unnatural, as the pic clearly shows, is the time frame in which the increase took place.

prove it, find me prove of that fact that what that graph shows is unnatural. Anyone know why Global Warming is a Theroy and not a fact, because to become a fact you have to prove it and they can't

global warming

Hi friends i am very interested to join you.global warming is mainly caused by man activities.so we must aware of the problem created by people.so, we must ready to bothering others also.

===================================================

sherin


www.orkut.com

well dont go bothering me about it, last group of tree huggers came over here to talk to be about this problem they precive i called the cops for tresspassing on our apartments property and loitering because they didnt have premission to be on the property annoying people. Save your tree hugging liberal feel good crap for yourself. IF and its a big IF global warming becomes an actual problem i might give a shit, right now nope, i see no reason for concern, 10000 years from now does not affect me in the slighest

Do you know of the volcano of Mount Tambora eruption in 1815?

From Wikipedia:

Mount Tambora (or Tomboro) is an active stratovolcano, also known as a composite volcano, on Sumbawa island, Indonesia. Sumbawa is flanked both to the north and south by oceanic crust, and Tambora was formed by the active subduction zones beneath it. This raised Mount Tambora as high as 4,300 m (14,000 ft),[2] making it one of the tallest peaks in the Indonesian archipelago, and drained off a large magma chamber inside the mountain. It took centuries to refill the magma chamber, its volcanic activity reaching its peak in April 1815.[3]

Tambora erupted in 1815 with a rating of seven on the Volcanic Explosivity Index, making it the largest eruption since the Lake Taupo eruption in AD 181.[4] The explosion was heard on Sumatra island (more than 2,000 km or 1,200 mi away). Heavy volcanic ash falls were observed as far away as Borneo, Sulawesi, Java and Maluku islands. The death toll was at least 71,000 people (perhaps the most deadly eruption in history), of whom 11,000–12,000 were killed directly by the eruption;[4] the often-cited figure of 92,000 people killed is believed to be an overestimate.[5] The eruption created global climate anomalies; 1816 became known as the Year Without a Summer because of the effect on North American and European weather. Agricultural crops failed and livestock died in much of the Northern Hemisphere, resulting in the worst famine of the 19th century.[4]

Do you know what the overall decrease in temperature (globally) was?

According to this, it was ~3º: ~3º and it caused a year without summer.

For a few more years after 1815, the temperatures recorded were abnormally low.


OK: this was a 1 time event but i'm only using it to show what a mere 3º difference in global temperature can do.

We're seeing a 0.5 increase over the last 100 years or so and, although it seems insignificant to many, it most certainly is NOT.