Windows 7 x64 RTM 59Hz issue

[Steevo]

http://www.pixelmagicforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2450

Who here is experiancing a monitor shutdown due to 59Hz?

NTSC is actually 59.9hz, and Windows 7 reporting shows it as 59hz.

If you have this issue, use new drivers, or make a driver for your monitor. If your TV doesn;t have support for the "real" 59.9hz then add a profile for it in CCC.


It will still be 59.9Hz at teh end of the day however. So your tearing is something else.

 

[Mussels]

http://www.pixelmagicforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2450

Who here is experiancing a monitor shutdown due to 59Hz?

NTSC is actually 59.9hz, and Windows 7 reporting shows it as 59hz.

If you have this issue, use new drivers, or make a driver for your monitor. If your TV doesn;t have support for the "real" 59.9hz then add a profile for it in CCC.


It will still be 59.9Hz at teh end of the day however. So your tearing is something else.

pray tell - how do you add a 59.97Hz refresh rate to the CCC - if that is your solution, i'd like to know how you managed to achieve it.

i'd also like to know why the NTSC standard applies to PC screens that arent TV's, and why its even needed to change from something that all screens and games support (60hz) to something they dont (59.97/59)

 

[Steevo]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTSC


http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/monitors/2009/02/06/the-dark-side-of-overdrive/1


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frame_rate

LCD has a set frame rate to maintain compatability with current industry standards, the controller chip that translates the data from your grapchis card is just the interface that changes your UBER 10000000000FPS into 59.94 frames per second. Just to prevent tearing at common resolutions and for most video as it is a multiple of the video being shown. 30 is actually 29.xx 15 is actually 14.XX etc...

Since there is no change partway through the refresh the display driving chip renders what is in buffer, unless there is a change, and that is what causes tearing on a LCD. Really once we get past all this interface we can allow a graphics card to determine what pixel to drive to what level and what it displays with little to no lag effect.

 

[Mussels]

you arent getting the point, this is the last post i'll make replying to you.


some people are experiencing compatibility issues when their screens run at 59Hz. End story.


just because you dont suffer it, or it doesnt work within your theories is entirely irrelevant, off topic, and almost trolling. you cant go and tell people the issues they're having dont exist.

 

[Steevo]

I asked who was having troubles as I have seen lots of these threads all over Windows 7 forums, and 99.9% of the people are having no issue other than asking why, and a few get some crazy conspiracy theory going and befoer you know it you ahve a 30 page thread about how bad 59Hz is, and how it damages LCD monitors, how bad the graphics card makers are for making this happen, and windows.....bla bla bla.



Then I posted the simple fixes for the issue for those who are having the issue. Either choose 30P, 60P or 24P and create a device profile. Update your drivers if the fix is available, or create your own driver for the TV, or monitor and relax. It is just anouter rounding thing that happens. Now who wants a $5.01 arby combo?

 

[Binge]

you arent getting the point, this is the last post i'll make replying to you.


some people are experiencing compatibility issues when their screens run at 59Hz. End story.


just because you dont suffer it, or it doesnt work within your theories is entirely irrelevant, off topic, and almost trolling. you cant go and tell people the issues they're having dont exist.

He is on to something that I've been itching to test out. Are there only some HDMI cables that strictly adhere to NTSC display frequencies, or do they all adhere to some sort of frequency standard?

 

[Mussels]

if you want to see a reason for problems, go check out the AMD game forums and look at the toshiba HDTV users complaining - nvidia cards work fine at 60Hz, but ATI cards get stuck at 59hz and the TV's give screwy images or dont work at all.


In my case it works fine most of the time, but i beleive it to be one of the main causes for my issues with crossfire (and its certainly the cause for DX10 games dropping to 30Hz - which is all over the place if you google it)

 

[Steevo]

He is on to something that I've been itching to test out. Are there only some HDMI cables that strictly adhere to NTSC display frequencies, or do they all adhere to some sort of frequency standard?

The frequency is set by your video device, and receiving device. If there is a error in transmission weather from internal or external sources the frequency is reduced.


There have been multiple blind studies thatshow as long as you don't use the cheapest piece of crap cable, set next to high line power cables, and break half the wires inside by bending the crap out of it repeatedly, you get the same exact picture.


People argued this about TOSLINK optic cables. And after quite a few tests on my cables, including a $1.99 cheapo, there was no difference in audio quality.

if you want to see a reason for problems, go check out the AMD game forums and look at the toshiba HDTV users complaining - nvidia cards work fine at 60Hz, but ATI cards get stuck at 59hz and the TV's give screwy images or dont work at all.


In my case it works fine most of the time, but i beleive it to be one of the main causes for my issues with crossfire (and its certainly the cause for DX10 games dropping to 30Hz - which is all over the place if you google it)

Create a profile for your monitor/TV and set it at 60Hz, or go edit the driver profile and see if that fixes it.

 

[Mussels]

The frequency is set by your video device, and receiving device. If there is a error in transmission weather from internal or external sources the frequency is reduced.


There have been multiple blind studies thatshow as long as you don't use the cheapest piece of crap cable, set next to high line power cables, and break half the wires inside by bending the crap out of it repeatedly, you get the same exact picture.


People argued this about TOSLINK optic cables. And after quite a few tests on my cables, including a $1.99 cheapo, there was no difference in audio quality.




Create a profile for your monitor/TV and set it at 60Hz, or go edit the driver profile and see if that fixes it.

doesnt work. thats the problem - you set 60, you force 60, and it drops to 59.

if it was so simple to fix, it wouldnt be an issue.

the only way i can get 60, is to dual monitor and 'clone' - since the second output is on VGA it sticks to 60 and forces the other screen to 60Hz as well.

 

[Steevo]

resistor mod the VGA adapter, fixed.


Have you tried forcing 60 through DX too?

And through your monitor driver?

 

[Mussels]

resistor mod the VGA adapter, fixed.

or not. i need both outputs as it is, so its a completely useless fix.

Have you tried forcing 60 through DX too?

you cant. that trick only worked in XP.

And through your monitor driver?

yes. as i've said many times (although i admit, its possible you've missed all the threads) the ONLY solution for many is to modify their monitor driver through rivatuner, making 60Hz the only working refresh rate.

its not a great solution however, as you have to manually install it via device manager every time you update the video card drivers. (and in my case, every time windows update decides to update the monitor drivers for me)
(pretty much every time i unplug the monitor and replug it, windows chooses the generic/windows update drivers over the modded one)

 

[Steevo]

It isn't so much a ATI/NVidia issue, but a monitor driver issue/Windows 7 issue.

http://entechtaiwan.com/util/ps.shtm

You could mod it.


But you say that adding your second display allows for 60Hz? and you use two? So.........

 

[Mussels]

It isn't so much a ATI/NVidia issue, but a monitor driver issue/Windows 7 issue.

http://entechtaiwan.com/util/ps.shtm

You could mod it.


But you say that adding your second display allows for 60Hz? and you use two? So.........

in order to fix it, i need to use clone mode. that requires two screens showing the same image.

I use two screens with different images, so it means my second screen is useless if i want to fix this problem.

 

[Steevo]

IC



I might mod the monitor.sys file to exclude the 59Hz entirely.

 

[Mussels]

IC



I might mod the monitor.sys file to exclude the 59Hz entirely.

i just modded my driver and this time it didnt work - it still reverts to 59Hz on DVI and HDMI

another thing i forgot to mention: the scaling options dont work on ATI drivers unless you're at 60Hz. so theres another casualty.

 

[Steevo]

I'm downloading the compiler classes now to edit the monitor.sys generic driver. YOu do know it actually looks to your EDID to fill in most of the blanks for your monitor right?

 

[Mussels]

I'm downloading the compiler classes now to edit the monitor.sys generic driver. YOu do know it actually looks to your EDID to fill in most of the blanks for your monitor right?

not really. thats not my area of expertise.

 

[Steevo]

Of course they require a update. Good MS. Five billion updates to "current" software librarys.

 

[Paintface]

I dont understand how this bug even got into windows, cause of this weird refreshrate even youtube videos tear, world of warcraft thinks its running at 60hz cause windows says so even though its 59 so the screentearing in that is horrible also .....

Is there a fix on the way ? although i dont know if i have to blame MS or ATI on this, it really is a bummer.

 

[Mussels]

I dont understand how this bug even got into windows, cause of this weird refreshrate even youtube videos tear, world of warcraft thinks its running at 60hz cause windows says so even though its 59 so the screentearing in that is horrible also .....

Is there a fix on the way ? although i dont know if i have to blame MS or ATI on this, it really is a bummer.

its some kind of not very thought out 'feature'