ATI and NVIDIA are holding back on us

[HillBeast]

I'm new to this forum so I'll proably look like a n00b writing this but please understand that what I am writing makes sense to me.

I've been thinking lately about the latest creations from ATI/AMD, NVIDIA and Intel and I've come to the conclusion that they are ALL holding back on us. I have used alot of GPUs and CPUs in the past decade but recently most of the stuff that they come out with just isn't that great. Sure they are impressive but they aren't as good as we hoped.

I recently got a hold of ATIs latest Radeon 5870 card and it's was a total disappointment. At $700NZD I had expected far more from a GPU than what I got. It was built from poor quality plastics, it's fan was painfully loud and it really wasn't that great in games. And it wasn't like I was being picky either because sure the frames were high and it looked amazing but it kept stuttering whenever the camera would rotate in games (it would pause briefly and once the camera finished rotating it went normal again) and unfortunately these sorts of things are not mentioned in reviews when they go on about FPS in games.

I had a think and I did a full reinstall of Windows and installed nothing but the drivers and the game but it still did it. After a while discussing with my mate about why it would be doing that and eventually we figured out that it was the memory bus of the GPU at fault. The Radeon has a hugely powerful processing performance but its 256bit memory bus holds it back and when the game has to rapidly change what it on screen, the memory bus holds it back and it lags.

I know ATI are smart guys and they made a brilliant card despite a few issues but I can't help but feel they held back on the memory bus. NVIDIA have been using 512bit buses since G200 came out and ATI could have easily put one on the 5870 but they opted for running GDDR5 on a small bus.

But don't go thinking I'm bashing ATI because NVIDIA are holding back on us too with their more recent stuff. G200 when it came out was supposed to be the best thing money can buy but it used an insane amount of power and the heat from it was ridiculous. The thing is, when it came out they were using 65nm but Intel was already dealing with 45nm in their CPUs. Why couldn't NVIDIA do 45nm or 55nm when G200 came out? They instead left 55nm for the 285s, 275s, and 295s. The thing is though, yes they reduced the die size, but they didn't do it as much as they could have. 45nm technology was getting pretty common by the time the 285 came out.

I can't help but feel the manufacturers are holding back to make another generation card later on which is what this generation should have been but when the next generation comes out, it's already a generation late (if that makes sense)

Any opinions and discussion on this matter is welcome.

 

[slyfox2151]

i hope your not trolling....

i think you need to do some more googleing and read about why GPU's dont use the same process as cpus do and why ati only needs 256 bus... i think this "stuttering" is more due to your monitor or not using vsync tbh.

 

[Binge]

This looks like you're trying to get people to agree with you, disagree with you, or side with a company. These threads are often parasitic and boost post counts with little or no real information being presented to enlighten readers.

There's a lot to suggest you have no idea what you're talking about, so I leave it at that.

 

[95Viper]

Hi, Welcome to TPU.

Boy Oh Boy, If you don't mind a little helpful info, before starting a thread like this...sit back read and observe the threads that contain good info or ask for help in finding out why you are having the problems you had. Don't do the conspiracy theory thing...

You might want to fill out your system spec in the user cp, so people will know what you got to help you.

Again, welcome

 

[pantherx12]

Graphics cards have used shitey plastics for the shrouds and fans for ages unless you buy a fancy one.

Its not holding back, the companies use the bare minimum to keep the card within its working specs most of the time.

its sensible business practice.

 

[DirectorC]

Actually ATI is working hard as hell to make the fastest most highly featured GPUs on the planet and nVidia is trying like a son of a bitch to keep a great number of their new wafers from going to waste due to heat and power consumption issues, so I think they are holding back from themselves

And I haven't heard of this stuttering issue from anyone else, so either 1) You have a defective card or 2) A crap computer [Weak PSU] 3) Bad system RAM or 4) Something else, but it's most likely not 5) That 5000 series cards are inherently flawed.

 

[HillBeast]

i think you need to do some more googleing and read about why GPU's dont use the same process as cpus do and why ati only needs 256 bus... i think this "stuttering" is more due to your monitor or not using vsync tbh.

I have Vsync on ALL THE TIME. It's not a Vsync issue and if you saw it yourself you wouldn't think so either. It's hard to explain but if it was Vsync then it would happen all the time. It just lags when a huge amount of sutff on screen changes.

I had a GTX285 and it had a 512bit bus and it has memory bandwidth of 159GB/s while the 5870 has only 153.6GB/s. That may be 5GB/s but in real life it's huge.

They mention it here too that the bandwidth is low: http://techreport.com/articles.x/17618/6

There's a lot to suggest you have no idea what you're talking about, so I leave it at that.

I have been working with computers for nearly 20 years and I know what I'm talking about when companies are holding back. Think about it, when was the last time you were truely amazed by how much better than the previous generation something was?

You might want to fill out your system spec in the user cp, so people will know what you got to help you.

My system specs are as follows:

Intel Core i7 920 @ 3.8GHz with HT on
6GB OCZ Platinum DDR3-1866 @ 8-8-8-25 timings
EVGA Classified X58 3xSLI
Intel X58 Chipset
HIS Radeon 5870 @ 900MHz
Corsair HX1000 1KW Power Supply
WD Black 1TB

And my NVIDIA Card was a Gigabyte GeForce GTX285

 

[HillBeast]

And I haven't heard of this stuttering issue from anyone else, so either 1) You have a defective card or 2) A crap computer [Weak PSU] 3) Bad system RAM or 4) Something else, but it's most likely not 5) That 5000 series cards are inherently flawed.

1) The card might be broken but why only when the camera turns. It's not like it's artifacting or anything or crashing. It does it at stock speeds and overclocked...
2) Nah the power supply is 1000W. It's been regarded my heaps of reviewers as the best power supply you can get powering up to and past it's rating.
3) If it was RAM then why didn't it do it with the GTX285 in it?
4) Dunno.
5) That's what I'm thinking.

 

[eidairaman1]

memory bandwidth is nothing, and the way your attitude is needs to stop right now.

 

[HillBeast]

Graphics cards have used shitey plastics for the shrouds and fans for ages unless you buy a fancy one.

It is a fancy one. This is their flagship model. My old 9800GX2 I had, used a nice metal shroud and the fan was really quiet. I did a test and my vacuum cleaner sounds quieter than the 5870. No kidding.

 

[slyfox2151]

if you know so much then why do you not know why they use'd 65nm ect wile intel is using 45nm or why ati only needs to use a 256 bus wile the nvidia 285 had 512... nvidia use's GDDR3 wile ati use's GDDR5 thus they cancel each other out and perform roughtly the same.

also why are you using a 1000watt psu??? would be wasting power due to ineficiency

It is a fancy one. This is their flagship model. My old 9800GX2 I had, used a nice metal shroud and the fan was really quiet. I did a test and my vacuum cleaner sounds quieter than the 5870. No kidding.

who made the card, what brand?? is it reference design or custom?

 

[HillBeast]

memory bandwidth is nothing, and the way your attitude is needs to stop right now.

I'm just trying to have a discussion and people are biting my head off. I'm just trying to express my opinion on how companies are running things these days...

 

[pantherx12]

1) The card might be broken but why only when the camera turns. It's not like it's artifacting or anything or crashing. It does it at stock speeds and overclocked...

Only when the camera turns?

Sounds like quite a specific glitch.

What games does it happen in? All of the ones you've tested?

It wouldn't be due to the card itself as reviewers would of mentioned such a flaw, it could only be a flaw with that individual card, have you tried for an rma yet?

If it happens with your next card then it could be some obscure hardware incompatibility ( can happen)

 

[HillBeast]

also why are you using a 1000watt psu??? would be wasting power due to ineficiency

No. What makes you think that? Just because it's 1000W doesn't mean it uses 1000W all the time.

who made the card, what brand?? is it reference design or custom?

HIS. It's a reference card.

 

[DirectorC]

How much is nVidia paying you.

 

[HillBeast]

Only when the camera turns?

Sounds like quite a specific glitch.

What games does it happen in? All of the ones you've tested?

It wouldn't be due to the card itself as reviewers would of mentioned such a flaw, it could only be a flaw with that individual card, have you tried for an rma yet?

If it happens with your next card then it could be some obscure hardware incompatibility ( can happen)

It happens in Dirt 2. The game the card came with.

 

[slyfox2151]

No. What makes you think that? Just because it's 1000W doesn't mean it uses 1000W all the time.

no it will only supply what your system requiers, i know how it works. becouse your system will draw such a light load from your psu, it wont have a very high efficiency and thus draw a lot from power from the wall then it needs to.

 

[pantherx12]

No. What makes you think that? Just because it's 1000W doesn't mean it uses 1000W all the time.

You'd be a bit worried if your psu was cracking out what ever it said on the tin 100% of the time XD


Hey sly it depends on the PSU.

Mines like 89% effciant most of the time

With lows of 84%

 

[HillBeast]

How much is nVidia paying you.

$200 an hour. Sarcastic enough? Seriously, NVIDIA have annoyed me enough in the past with their lack of support for low end cards and poor customer support.

 

[crazyeyesreaper]

there only 1 game that has camera slow down in it and thats GTA IV and thats CPU NOT GPU this is a troll post we had a thread discussing this its not memory bandwidth if it was bus width causing an issue why can a 5770 compete with a 4870 or 4890 why can a 4770 surpass a 4850 etc memory bandwidth isnt the issue start searching tpus current threads on gpus. before starting another useless flame fest of crap

 

[HillBeast]

No. What makes you think that? Just because it's 1000W doesn't mean it uses 1000W all the time.

no it will only supply what your system requiers, i know how it works. becouse your system will draw such a light load from your psu, it wont have a very high efficiency and thus draw a lot from power from the wall then it needs to.

When did this become a discussion about my power bill?

 

[slyfox2151]

what if you run a benchmark say that DX11 one...(i forget what its called but im sure some one knows it .. with the dragon on an island in the air ect)

run that and see if it still has the problem.

 

[slyfox2151]

When did this become a discussion about my power bill?

well its not but you claimed to have worked around pc's for 20 years... i thort you would know how a psu works and would want to save some power.

sorry.

-.- also double post

 

[HillBeast]

there only 1 game that has camera slow down in it and thats GTA IV and thats CPU NOT GPU this is a troll post we had a thread discussing this its not memory bandwidth if it was bus width causing an issue why can a 5770 compete with a 4870 or 4890 why can a 4770 surpass a 4850 etc memory bandwidth isnt the issue start searching tpus current threads on gpus. before starting another useless flame fest of crap

I'm not saying it's all down to memory bandwidht. I'm saying it's not all down to processing power.

 

[crazyeyesreaper]

true enough but your missing my point we have indepth threads on this already thare ridiculously long namely the 5870 not up to expectation thread etc etc if it was memory bandwidth upping the mem speeds would give us linear performance increase fact is that dosent happen core speed = best way to get performance gain because it affects core and shaders mem ocing will gain performance not in a way that gives credibility to a mem bandwidth / bus width issue