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Help with New gaming rig that is most needed

^ that isnt the fault of crossfire or drivers, some cards are not supposed to be crossfired period! The 5850 runs relatively hot and consume a lot of power its hardly the best candidate for crossfire to begin with.

You can not fault crossfires scaling when you have lower midrange cards like the 5750/5770 in crossfire beating out a 5870.

Some cards like crossfire, some do not. In your case a single 5850 can manage any game, at any level of detail @ any resolution. Most games will cap your frame rate at about 100 frames per second? so you'll never benefit from additional frame rates crossfiring a monster like a 5850 anyways.
 
uh 5850 im sorry to say usues about 110w average and peaks at 150 thats just 1 6pin and 1 pcie slot power requirment the gtx 460 uses more power then a 5850 and im also sorry to say a 5850 runs damn cool 44c idle in crossfire at 80'f ambients and load while overclock with default fan i hit 70'c the problem is crossfire just isnt as potent as sli currently.

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASUS/EAH_5850_TOP_DirectCu/26.html
roughly the 8800gtx 9800gtx gts 250 gtx260 etc all use more power in some cases the 4850 uses more power or equal to the 5850 and thats the blue reference 5850s which i have. Face is crossfire dosent scale as well as SLI
power_maximum.gif

power_peak.gif

power_average.gif

power_idle.gif


ATi started with a different dual card configuration nvidia was way ahead in the early days and that lead on development still holds today sadly
 
Well lets agree on one thing: SLI or Crossfire... I think SLI is the answer... in that case AM3 is out the window? What happened to the 980a chipset is that no good?

crazyeyesreaper said:
true phanbuey but amd ati has the same ability to do just that but they dont if crossfire scaled better and didnt bottom out on minimum frame rates as much as it does it would greatly improve ATis standings but the fact is when nvidia mid range will scale better then atis best cards it shows the problem at hand
Click to expand...

I totally agree - so what does that mean in terms of (reluctant grumble) AM3 gaming rig? Why do people say there are no good boards?
 
true phanbuey but amd ati has the same ability to do just that but they dont if crossfire scaled better and didnt bottom out on minimum frame rates as much as it does it would greatly improve ATis standings but the fact is when nvidia mid range will scale better then atis best cards it shows the problem at hand

Asus AM3 980a sli mobo $139 x16 x16 PCIe
ASUS M4N98TD EVO AM3 NVIDIA nForce 980a SLI ATX AM...

and no there are some games that still need the power of 2 gpus

examples

Metro 2033
Crysis
Oblivion and Fallout 3 if u mod the game and the game engine as much as i do the game becomes even MORE demanding then Crysis

fact is sli tends to scale around 50-90% crossfire scales around 30-70% and thats across ALL GPUS not just mid or high seperately and its moot sure 5770 xfire = 5870 but 2 5870s also usually are 2x the 5770s due to how scaling works 5770s dont scale any better then 5870 and lets not forget in games that half ass crossfire support that single 5870 wipes the floor with dual 5770s
 
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crazyeyesreaper said:
true phanbuey but amd ati has the same ability to do just that but they dont if crossfire scaled better and didnt bottom out on minimum frame rates as much as it does it would greatly improve ATis standings but the fact is when nvidia mid range will scale better then atis best cards it shows the problem at hand

Asus AM3 980a sli mobo $139 x16 x16 PCIe
ASUS M4N98TD EVO AM3 NVIDIA nForce 980a SLI ATX AM...
Click to expand...

^^ that looks like an amazing board... and its CHEAP too.
 
ah yea but for $40 u get a newer better supported chipset and dual x16 instead of dual x8 ;) which isnt a bad price difference since i came from 790gx (dual x8) at $120 vs 790fx at the time that was $180
 
Dent, I heard the i5 6xx series OC like crazy, and if you have a good chip 5ghz is achievable on air. Again, stuff I heard but I don't know for sure since I don't own one. But given that some ppl have gotten their E8500 to do 5ghz on air and that Anand got to 4.3ghz on the stock cooler, I'd say it isn't impossible, and I was just using it as an illustration.

Bob, I'd wait a little and do some more research on the AM3. The LGA1366 series is king in terms of performance, but it also commands a premium. The good thing about X58 performance wise is support for both crossfire and SLI, and the x16/x16 bandwidth. The bad thing is obviously the higher price.

The LGA1156 i7s offer almost all the performance for less money, though most p55 boards only do x8/x8, but unless you are using GTX 480s in SLI or 5970s in crossfireX, you shouldn't see more than 2-3% drop in performance due to the smaller bandwidth. So from a performance/$$ point of view, P55 is more sensible than X58.

AM3 X6 (only 6 core) is another interesting option IMO, b/c AM3 socket still has life in it, as opposed to both X58 and P55, both of which will be discontinued. Not only that, the 890FX series gives you the same amount of PCI-E lanes as X58, along w/ USB3 and SATA 6gb/s built in. So it definitely offers more value, but you lose support for SLI (officially anyways).

I did a quick pricing on Newegg.ca, an core i7 860 + Maximus Formula III combo and 2x GTX 460s 1gb is already $1000. Then you gotta add in hard drive, RAM, PSU, case, and all that. I came out w/ $1420 before shipping, that's not including monitor either.
 
^^ he's not buying monitor and a Maximus Formula III is expensive as hell for 1156
 
id still prefer 890fx cheapest u can find 1055T and 4 gigs DDR3 do to the fact that AM3 will be the same for bulldozer thing AM2+ now with AM3 the next jump is AM3+ with AM3 backwards support so in theory an amd rig with a current chipset offers the chance at a drop in CPU upgrade down the road much like the 940BE of its day

and there are good nvidia boards phanbuey there just few and far between on the AMD side of things due to intel basically shit canning nvidia chipsets when u lost about 60% chipset market (rought idea from what id expect ) its no longer profitable

'Intel NVIDA chipset were more common intel canning it killed nvidias chipsets and amd as an alternative isnt in the consumers mind enough to warranty true support anymore
 
crazyeyesreaper said:
ah yea but for $40 u get a newer better supported chipset and dual x16 instead of dual x8 ;)
Click to expand...

dual 8x is plenty and the 750a is just as supported. Unlocks core, x6 support ....
 
Okay I missed a bunch of posts while typing my response lol.

OP, I agree, SLI > crossfire and that should be your choice. AM3 offers no SLI support officially (I still say SLI hack it lol), so I built a P55 rig on Newegg.ca with 2x 1gb GTX 460s.

phanbuey, I picked the Maximus III b/c I got lazy and it was in a bundle w/ the i7 860. It is expensive for a P55 mobo, but if OP wants to run this rig for 6 years and still OC his CPU 24/7, I'd say a solid mobo is a worthy investment. Though a P55 FTW will probably suit him better.

crazyeyesreaper: I love my 1055T setup and it definitely has more value, but if OP doesn't want to do SLI hack, P55 would be his best option since I wouldn't want him to run on a 980i mobo for 6 years. That's like eternity in computer terms lol.
 
thats just it ebola look above lol jr beat me to it and what i mean jr is the 980a is more likely to get a bios update for bulldozer then a 750a which in that situations offers even MORE value in a longevity stand point
 
crazyeyesreaper said:
thats just it ebola look above lol jr beat me to it and what i mean jr is the 980a is more likely to get a bios update for bulldozer then a 750a which in that situations offers even MORE value in a longevity stand point
Click to expand...

I highly beleive it would get the bios update!!! It's basically the equivalent of an AMD 770 chipset in the AMD nVidia world. Budget chipset.
 
mmm we shall see i suppose ;) lol i prefer to stick to newer chipsets as there more likely to get an update and there more likely to get an update sooner :toast:
 
crazyeyesreaper I said the 5850 runs relatively hot and consumes a lot of power.

So it means that it runs cool, but in comparison to other cards it can be perceived as hot.

As for power consumption you didn’t post the 5850s power consumption in crossfire which is what the topic is really about.


Power consumption and heat aside, the fact remains that you can not fault crossfire's scalability on a whole because it there is good demonstrations of it with the 4770 in CF being on par with the 4870X2 and the 5770 in CF being on par with the 5870.

The 5850 is relatively expensive, very few people buy 5850 outside the enthusiast crowd, why would ATI employee software engineers $40 per hour to configure crossfire drivers to scale well on a card that brings in little revenue, ATI probably know that most people can bearly afford 1 5850 let alone 2 and hence why its crossfire optimisation is probably poor. Which brings me to my original point - Some cards are not ideal for crossfire to begin with, the 5850 is one of them which is no reflection on crossfire as a whole.
 
Jr. and reaper, I see the boards you guys are talking about, but the 980i has a legit chance of being the last chipset Nvidia puts out. If that is the case, all support for those boards will be dead. That is perhaps my biggest reason for not recommending it.

Remember, the OP is building a PC that will last six years, that's crazy long. I would not save $100 now to use a platform that is clearly heading the way of the dodo. Look at it this way, avg your savings now over 6 years that's like what, $17/year? I'd spend that to enjoy a superior mobo throughout that duration.

Anyways, here's the rig I threw together on Newegg.ca, I'm sure money can be saved here and there, but it should be just under $1500 after shipping and it's a solid rig for sure.

buildpart1.jpg

buildpart2.jpg
 
Dent1 said:
crazyeyesreaper I said the 5850 runs relatively hot and consumes a lot of power.

So it means that it runs cool, but in comparison to other cards it can be perceived as hot.

As for power consumption you didn’t post the 5850s power consumption in crossfire which is what the topic is really about.


Power consumption and heat aside, the fact remains that you can not fault crossfire's scalability on a whole because it there is good demonstrations of it with the 4770 in CF being on par with the 4870X2 and the 5770 in CF being on par with the 5870.

The 5850 is relatively expensive, very few people buy 5850 outside the enthusiast crowd, why would ATI employee software engineers $40 per hour to configure crossfire drivers to scale well on a card that brings in little revenue, ATI probably know that most people can bearly afford 1 5850 let alone 2 and hence why its crossfire optimisation is probably poor. Which brings me to my original point - Some cards are not ideal for crossfire to begin with, the 5850 is one of them which is no reflection on crossfire as a whole.
Click to expand...

fact crossfire on 5670 5770 and 5870 scales the same % wise within margin of error 5850 uses 110 watts on average that on part with a 9800gt and is LESS then the 460 its LESS then gts 250 etc meaning nearly double the performance at same wattage and 70c is at 30% fan speed meaning the fan never spins up at 50% i still cant hear it and temps drop to 60c and thats with them IN CROSSFIRE with the cards a centimeter apart 5850 runs cool and it uses very little power examples 150w tdp max vs 250 of the gtx 470 for same performance in crossfire power DOES NOT SCALE IN LINEAR FASHION meaning about 280w for 5850 crossfire at peak and 470 will peak around 420w and 460s will peak around 330w. and again crossfire scaling is roughly the same across all gpus due to the fact ati codes for families not invidual gpus so...

5800 SERIES 5700 SERIES there drivers are optimized on a per family of gpu basis mean its less efficient then Nvidia who tends to pay a great deal of interest on scaling for all gpus individiually
 
Reaper, you also have a HAF 932 so you need to keep that in mind :p

That giant side fan will keep anything short of 480s in SLI cool lol.

I agree, the evergreen family is amazing, but SLI just has better scaling (performance wise) and more games are optimized for Nvidia. But I don't think that the 5850 is more power efficient makes much difference, it's not like the GTX 460 is a powerhog anyways.
 
yea i stripped the side panel fans using 3 120mm coolermaster R4s and im sorry to say no temp difference with or without side panel fans as ive had them off since installing and testing water cooling lol they make nearly no difference for me altho they DRASTICALLLY lowered mobo chipset temps and hdd temps

im just replying to Dent1 for the most part ebola i know gpu usage i use to have a 8800gts 640mb volt modded and overclocked to as high as i could get it at 100% fan speed 24/7 at that lvl it used as much power as an 8800 ultra if memory serves me right hahaha
 
Just awesome!

A lot of information to process in a short period of time haha :laugh:

Thx a bunch for the rig ebola, will look into further and try to gather info. Atm my brain is like a sponge and I knda look like crazyeyes avatar :twitch:

So AM3 sli IS possible, hmm this is getting interesting. What was the downside of both mobos, it kinda went fast and it was a bit out of my knowledge limit.

Thx,

HoboBob
 
Yea, HAF 932 is a beast in terms of cooling, the OP won't have that luxury though (and that'll depend on his sense of style as well, can't help it if he finds the HAF series fugly :roll:)

Well, this'll be my last post for several hours, hopefully OP will find our discussion useful :p

You gentlemen have fun, I have a shiny new pair of MSI GTX 465 Twin Frozr Golden Edition to attend to :rockout:
 
@ebola

I understand your point, problem is cpu longevity as I previously stated. Intel has already claimed to not release(IIRC) anymore cpu's for 1156/1366.
 
and lol ebola yea the haf is ugly as sin but function over form man function over form :toast: id use a cardboard box to house my stuff if i had balls made of Titanium do to the wtf holy crap factor of it.

cases are a get what u like senario good cooling comes with the desire to make the cooling better any case can have good cooling ur willing to do it yourself i was just to lazy
 
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