Upgrade AMD or swap to Intel??

[crazyeyesreaper]

8350 doesnt really win at 3D modeling. Using Autodesk Maya / Max / Blender 3D Intel wins more often than not even with the extra integer cores on the AMD.

In most situations the 4670K will be equal to or faster than the 8350. AMD route is cheaper but in some situations for rendering memory speed can play a rather large roll and no matter how you slice it AMD has an inferior memory controller.

Cost to Cost 8350 or 4770K i would go with the 8350 if money is a concern. 4670k or 8350 its a wash doesnt matter.

ANd your talking about average FPS which is worthless what matters is Minimum FPS.

In something like Total War ROme 2 even on low an AMD proc will drop to 11 fps or LOWER while Intel even the cheaper I3s can maintainy 24-25+ minimums. It depends on needs. But you don't have to listen to me or anyone else here honestly do what you wish. I just know having attended college for Computer Animation and Game Design = rendering = rendering means time faster = less time spent rendering and considering the little issues that pop up and you have to go back fix it re render means faster is better. For a hobbyist this won't matter if at all. That said I will always take greater performance over lower price. Considering in many situations with 3D rendering Intel can pull as far as 30%-40% ahead of AMD it depends on whats important to you.

In your situation it seems AMD is fine. however in multiple games I play applications I use AMD is inferior costs far more to run and in the end just isnt worth it. Different strokes for different folks as they say. So go with your gut instinct and again at equal cost 8350 vs 4670k the 8350 is a better fit for what you want to do.

 

[Steevo]

I managed to run 32Gb of DDR3 at 1T with tight timings on a 8350, however their cache latency is horrendous and they should feel bad. Also worth noting it was a matched set and on a Overclocking board.

 

[Cybrnook]

Just to throw it out there, Microcenter has the 8320 for $99 (Nothing a little overclock won't fix, same architecture as 8350 for $100 less)

http://www.microcenter.com/product/401796/FX_8320_Black_Edition_35GHz_AM3_Boxed_Processor


EDIT: This is such a hard question to ask, you are going to get Fanboys from both sides flaming the other side. Basically just go with what YOU feel will suit your needs.

Intel is always has a "Better" CPU as Intel has more R&D cash, but half the features the CPU's have you will never use.

AMD has always been the best bang for the buck.

Either one will perform great under the right circumstances.

 

[Chetkigaming]

yeah as crazyeyesreaper mentioned, amd is bad for gaming, unbelievable fps drops, ridiculous really. Intel or suck. 4670k doubled minimum fps against 9350.

 

[TristanD27]

8350 doesnt really win at 3D modeling. Using Autodesk Maya / Max / Blender 3D Intel wins more often than not even with the extra integer cores on the AMD.

In most situations the 4670K will be equal to or faster than the 8350. AMD route is cheaper but in some situations for rendering memory speed can play a rather large roll and no matter how you slice it AMD has an inferior memory controller.

Cost to Cost 8350 or 4770K i would go with the 8350 if money is a concern. 4670k or 8350 its a wash doesnt matter.

ANd your talking about average FPS which is worthless what matters is Minimum FPS.

In something like Total War ROme 2 even on low an AMD proc will drop to 11 fps or LOWER while Intel even the cheaper I3s can maintainy 24-25+ minimums. It depends on needs. But you don't have to listen to me or anyone else here honestly do what you wish. I just know having attended college for Computer Animation and Game Design = rendering = rendering means time faster = less time spent rendering and considering the little issues that pop up and you have to go back fix it re render means faster is better. For a hobbyist this won't matter if at all. That said I will always take greater performance over lower price. Considering in many situations with 3D rendering Intel can pull as far as 30%-40% ahead of AMD it depends on whats important to you.

In your situation it seems AMD is fine. however in multiple games I play applications I use AMD is inferior costs far more to run and in the end just isnt worth it. Different strokes for different folks as they say. So go with your gut instinct and again at equal cost 8350 vs 4670k the 8350 is a better fit for what you want to do.

Now this is what I wanted, someone who can clearly justify why the Intel is better and just throwing out some pointless benchmarks with average FPS as if it matters, which it doesn't as long as it is over 60, and that is not just me, take at look at this: http://www.cameratechnica.com/2011/11/21/what-is-the-highest-frame-rate-the-human-eye-can-perceive/ - "Human perception response drops off at 60fps".

The point about minimum FPS is very good and what is more important to me is the rendering speed but as you say, I'm a hobbyist so the 8350 will do fine. So, with all of that said, if I decide not to upgrade my motherboard, I will stick with the 8350 but as someone pointed out, I won't be able to OC greatly on my board as I run the risk of blowing the Vram when OCing an 8 core, so I may need to upgrade the mobo anyway, in which case I guess I am better spending the extra £25 on the 4670k? Or is the 4670k not as good? "at equal cost 8350 vs 4670k the 8350 is a better fit for what you want to do." Or where you just saying that because of my current board?

 

[Chetkigaming]

Intel is best cpu`s for gaming and not only, in the market, you can go 4670k and be happy with it clearly. Human eye sees big difference between 120hz and 60, all gamers who have 120hz monitor can admit it. So 60 fps is minimum, no point for buying some cpu that cant afford it at hard game times.

 

[crazyeyesreaper]

Now this is what I wanted, someone who can clearly justify why the Intel is better and just throwing out some pointless benchmarks with average FPS as if it matters, which it doesn't as long as it is over 60, and that is not just me, take at look at this: http://www.cameratechnica.com/2011/11/21/what-is-the-highest-frame-rate-the-human-eye-can-perceive/ - "Human perception response drops off at 60fps".

The point about minimum FPS is very good and what is more important to me is the rendering speed but as you say, I'm a hobbyist so the 8350 will do fine. So, with all of that said, if I decide not to upgrade my motherboard, I will stick with the 8350 but as someone pointed out, I won't be able to OC greatly on my board as I run the risk of blowing the Vram when OCing an 8 core, so I may need to upgrade the mobo anyway, in which case I guess I am better spending the extra £25 on the 4670k? Or is the 4670k not as good? "at equal cost 8350 vs 4670k the 8350 is a better fit for what you want to do." Or where you just saying that because of my current board?

In 3D rendering the 4670K is on par or slower in the general benchmarks depending on what you do for modeling characters or rendering a single scene the 8350 will be better when adding physics objects fluids dynamics intel will be a bit better usually.

for gaming AND 3D a 4770K or a used 3770k on Z77 make far more sense with a used 3770K being a good deal cheaper. Of if you can find a Microcenter near you or someone you know lives near one the 4770K + Mobo option can be pretty damn cheap.

for just slap in performance aka set it forget it the 8350 is the better bet.

Essentially if you have to buy a new motherboard for the 8350 to overclock your better off getting an entry level Z87 board and a 4770K

The 4670K while great for gaming will cost you more for the same performance to get the best of both worlds the 4770k or 3770k if you need save some cash are where you should look.

Take it from someone that went from a 940BE to a 965BE at 4GHz to a 2500k at 4.4 to a 3770K then to a 3960x and 4960x the 2500k was great for gaming in terms of my 3D work the 3770k was far better noticeably better.

When it comes to gaming and minimum FPS Intel usually wins hands down. Skyrim with mods and ENB and shadow teaks can sent even an Intel chip down to 20 fps AMD can barely stay afloat at 5-10 depending on settings even with high end GPUs. Shogun 2 Total War has the 8350 min fps sitting around the SAME as your 960T at about 11-14 while the newer Intel chips average 24-30.

Again it all depends on what you want. Where are you located / Buying from is the key question now as a higher end Intel build may be possible without breaking the bank. IF you really need to save money maybe check and see if your 960T has unlockable cores because the Phenom II architecture when 6 cores are present tend to give the 8320 / 8350 a run for their money. So if your chip unlocks you should see nice gains. Granted I have not read the entire thread so if thats been tried disregard that line of thought.

 

[MxPhenom 216]

Intel is best cpu`s for gaming and not only, in the market, you can go 4670k and be happy with it clearly. Human eye sees big difference between 120hz and 60, all gamers who have 120hz monitor can admit it. So 60 fps is minimum, no point for buying some cpu that cant afford it at hard game times.

No, just no.

 

[TristanD27]

Intel is best cpu`s for gaming and not only, in the market, you can go 4670k and be happy with it clearly. Human eye sees big difference between 120hz and 60, all gamers who have 120hz monitor can admit it. So 60 fps is minimum, no point for buying some cpu that cant afford it at hard game times.

Clearly an Intel fanboy here. At the end of the day, even with some drops which yes, are worse on the AMD the average is still more then enough on the AMD. You stop noticing a big difference over 100FPS so yeah you'll see a diffence between 60 and 120 but your only really seeing a 40 fps difference and AMD can pull 90/100 average. There isn't really a maximum FPS the eye can see as the eye does not see in frames, it is just on all the time but anything above 100 and the average person wont see much, if any, difference.

Anyway, if you want to debate Intel vs AMD then find another thread, that is not what this thread is about. Why can't you talk about processors without people starting a war over AMD vs Intel.

In 3D rendering the 4670K is on par or slower in the general benchmarks depending on what you do for modeling characters or rendering a single scene the 8350 will be better when adding physics objects fluids dynamics intel will be a bit better usually.

for gaming AND 3D a 4770K or a used 3770k on Z77 make far more sense with a used 3770K being a good deal cheaper. Of if you can find a Microcenter near you or someone you know lives near one the 4770K + Mobo option can be pretty damn cheap.

for just slap in performance aka set it forget it the 8350 is the better bet.

Essentially if you have to buy a new motherboard for the 8350 to overclock your better off getting an entry level Z87 board and a 4770K

The 4670K while great for gaming will cost you more for the same performance to get the best of both worlds the 4770k or 3770k if you need save some cash are where you should look.

Take it from someone that went from a 940BE to a 965BE at 4GHz to a 2500k at 4.4 to a 3770K then to a 3960x and 4960x the 2500k was great for gaming in terms of my 3D work the 3770k was far better noticeably better.

When it comes to gaming and minimum FPS Intel usually wins hands down. Skyrim with mods and ENB and shadow teaks can sent even an Intel chip down to 20 fps AMD can barely stay afloat at 5-10 depending on settings even with high end GPUs. Shogun 2 Total War has the 8350 min fps sitting around the SAME as your 960T at about 11-14 while the newer Intel chips average 24-30.

Again it all depends on what you want. Where are you located / Buying from is the key question now as a higher end Intel build may be possible without breaking the bank. IF you really need to save money maybe check and see if your 960T has unlockable cores because the Phenom II architecture when 6 cores are present tend to give the 8320 / 8350 a run for their money. So if your chip unlocks you should see nice gains. Granted I have not read the entire thread so if thats been tried disregard that line of thought.

So if I needed to upgrade my board (which also gives me PCI 3.0 to get the most out of the GTX 770 I would get) would:
This: GIGABYTE GA-G1.SNIPER Z87 Intel Socket 1150 Motherboard
+
This: i5 4670K
be the best idea? No way am going to afford the 4770K

I am located in Birmingham, England and buy from scan.co.uk

I also want to add that there may be one or two boards that would be a little better for a bit more money which isn't the problem, I love the look of the sniper boards and I'm sorry to say but the appearance of my rig is pretty important to me so unless another board would give significantly better performance I would like that one, oh and no no red, I hate red rigs, too overused and just not a big fan of red.

 

[crazyeyesreaper]

give me a few minutes to poke around you do not need a high end board the SNiper board is overpriced for you need

G1 Sniper + 4670K = $108 + 168 = $276
GA-Z87 HD3 + 4770K = $78 + 240 = $318

Thats just through Scan.co.uk
Aria PC has 1 in stock for $229
http://www.aria.co.uk/SuperSpecials/Other products/Intel Core i7-4770K 3.50GHz (Haswell) Socket LGA1150 Processor - Retail ?productId=55835&source=skinflint

Add in the mobo from Amazon for $69
http://www.amazon.co_uk/dp/B00CUYOWMG/?tag=tec053-21

$229 + 69 = $300 comes down to $25 difference. You lose the option for SLI but if your debating between AMD and Intel and plan to go multi GPU shoot yourself now if you do it on the 8350 as its not gonna be good.

Simply put by shopping around you can get a 4770K + Z87 and a board that allows for overclocking for $300 just $24 more than what you were looking at if you dont really plan to overclock get the 4770 non K and save another $10-15 dropping the cost down to 216 or $13 thus $283 thats just $7 more than you were gonna spend total. At which point its possible to pick out a different mobo with better features in the H87 lineup and probably save a few more dollars there as well. Up to you honestly. http://www.aria.co.uk/SuperSpecials/Other products/Intel Core i7-4770 3.40GHz (Haswell) Socket LGA1150 Processor - Retail ?productId=55833&source=skinflint

So lets break this down

your idea
G1 Sniper + 4670K = $276
Ga Z87 HD3 + 4770K = $300
GA Z87 HD3 + 4770 non-K = $283
8350 + 990FX Sabertooth R2 = $260

$40 is insignificant honestly for the overall improvement in performance / lower power draw etc.

 

[TristanD27]

give me a few minutes to poke around you do not need a high end board the SNiper board is overpriced for you need

G1 Sniper + 4670K = $108 + 168 = $276
GA-Z87 HD3 + 4770K = $78 + 240 = $318

Thats just through Scan.co.uk
Aria PC has 1 in stock for $229
http://www.aria.co.uk/SuperSpecials/Other products/Intel Core i7-4770K 3.50GHz (Haswell) Socket LGA1150 Processor - Retail ?productId=55835&source=skinflint

Add in the mobo from Amazon for $69
http://www.amazon.co_uk/dp/B00CUYOWMG/?tag=tec053-21

$229 + 69 = $300 comes down to $25 difference. You lose the option for SLI but if your debating between AMD and Intel and plan to go multi GPU shoot yourself now if you do it on the 8350 as its not gonna be good.

Simply put by shopping around you can get a 4770K + Z87 and a board that allows for overclocking for $300 just $24 more than what you were looking at if you dont really plan to overclock get the 4770 non K and save another $10-15 dropping the cost down to 216 or $13 thus $283 thats just $7 more than you were gonna spend total. At which point its possible to pick out a different mobo with better features in the H87 lineup and probably save a few more dollars there as well. Up to you honestly. http://www.aria.co.uk/SuperSpecials/Other products/Intel Core i7-4770 3.40GHz (Haswell) Socket LGA1150 Processor - Retail ?productId=55833&source=skinflint

I am actually stuck with scan as I will be trying to get it on finance so I can get it all together and pay it off, which is why I'm on a tight budget so it's a £50 difference. Thinking about it, one thing I had on the list of things to put into this upgrade is an SSD for my OS, if I knock that off for now (I don't mind waiting an extra few seconds for boot-up), I could go for the 4770K and the Sniper (future-proof and to be frank, I love the look of that board, always wanted one).

 

[Vario]

^get the third on the list. GA Z87 HD3 + 4770 non-K = $283

No need to overclock with Haswell. Its fast to begin with!

K series chips lack VT-D if thats a feature you want... useful for VMs. Not sure if motherboard supports that though.

 

[eidairaman1]

If you go intel you have to change your entire setup and also reformat your drives. If your motherboard is AM3+ READY and supports FX cpus the minimum id suggest is the FX6300, 8320 and 8350 are worthy upgrades, only thing ud have to maybe do is update the bios and motherboard drivers without a system format.

by the way flamebaiters need to leave

 

[TristanD27]

Just saw your edit after posting. I thought of one more problem, I currently have an arctic a30 cooler and if I went for a 4770K or even 4770, it would be foolish to use the stock cooler so I would need new cooling which either means an extra £90 for a H100i or an extra £30 for the not as good Arctic Cooling Freezer i30.

When I sit back and look at this logically, this whole thing started as just a CPU upgrade, now its a CPU, board, cooler... is it too much just for what I want? For a nice steady 60FPS on high setting and decent 3D modelling and rendering, no physics, its mainly just character modelling, not for games or animation, just pictures, that's all, do I even need to upgrade my board so I can OC the 8350 or do I just get an 8350, not OC it and be happy with that? Remember that I am getting a PNY GeForce GTX 770 2GB too... hmmm.

It's £200 more to get a new board and Intel chip then it is to settle with just an 8350, I could get the SSD and still be talking lower costs.

In fact, for less then the 4770, mobo and cooling I can get:
Gigabyte Motherboard GA-990FXA-UD3 (which allows OCing without worries of blowing the vram)
AMD FX 8350 Black Edition
Samsung 840 EVO 120G
and still have change...

 

[crazyeyesreaper]

Also if you plan to overclock the 8350 and push it to rather high speeds the cheap a30 will probably not be sufficient so youll still be buying a better cooler unless sticking to lower overclocks at which point even with high overclock a better cooler new board the 8350 ends up on par with the stock 4770 and it took more effort to get there. Simple put expect a TDP of around 200-250W depending on the quality of your chip when a large overclock is applied.

Also in terms of mobos you wont find much in the looks department either only the Sabertooth 990FX 2.0 springs to mind as an updated motherboard. The rest are old tech. These are things to keep in mind.

To put it bluntly AMD has pretty much abandonded the AM3+ platform in favor for the APUs and FM2+

 

[HammerON]

Edited one post already for language. Keep it clean and stay away from you are a "AMD/Intel faboy" terms. This thread has about served it's purpose...

 

[FX-GMC]

This is pretty much what I have in mind every time I start thinking about new builds and upgrades, I am always on a budget, one day when I have more money then sense, yeah I will go with an Intel but for now while money is a big concern, I will stick with AMD, people are always on about how you should get Intel because you get an extra 5FPS on this and that game, well I don't care, as long as I'm playing on maximum setting with an average of 60 I am happy, my monitor is only 50Hz and my TV is 60Hz so 1) I don't need more then 60FPS and 2) even if I had a display that could handle 10000Hz... I wouldn't need it, anything over 60 and you don't really notice a huge difference, nothing that makes me go "OH WOW!". The only other advantage for me is the 3D modelling and I'm not going to be rendering the next avatar any time soon am I? It's just a bit of fun for a hobby.

In short, I'm not someone bragging about my 120FPS and this useless crap and that useless crap, too many people get hyped up about stuff they dont use on a day to day basis anyway, they do it just because they can and like to brag, so as long as I can play my current games at 60FPS on max settings, do my 3D modelling and future proof a little (not for like 2 years down the line or anything stupid) then I happy.

And to back up my point, lets look at this:

Here we see a 1FPS different between the 8350 and the 4770K... Bet your all glad you spend an extra £100 for 1FPS I know, I know, that's just one example of many but it still proves my point, people out there who are building PC's just for gaming and spending that extra £100 for better gaming and only getting an extra 1FPS (maybe slightly more on some games, possible not even better at all on others).

That chart is for single player (so it's pretty much worthless). Multiplayer shows greater variance between processor.

This is closer to what you will see:

 

[TristanD27]

Also if you plan to overclock the 8350 and push it to rather high speeds the cheap a30 will probably not be sufficient so youll still be buying a better cooler unless sticking to lower overclocks at which point even with high overclock a better cooler new board the 8350 ends up on par with the stock 4770 and it took more effort to get there. Simple put expect a TDP of around 200-250W depending on the quality of your chip when a large overclock is applied.

Also in terms of mobos you wont find much in the looks department either only the Sabertooth 990FX 2.0 springs to mind as an updated motherboard. The rest are old tech. These are things to keep in mind.

To put it bluntly AMD has pretty much abandonded the AM3+ platform in favor for the APUs and FM2+

Well with that in mind, how does this look:
Gigabyte G1 Sniper A88X FM2+
AMD A10 7850K Black Edition

Don't really know much at all about the FM2+ series, didn't realise they have a sniper board ;D but I would also need new cooling then as I doubt the A30 would fit and suffice.

Maybe an 8350 with no OC with do what I need...

Edited one post already for language. Keep it clean and stay away from you are a "AMD/Intel faboy" terms. This thread has about served it's purpose...

Sorry, I just didn't appreciate people using my thread to voice their personal opinions about amd vs intel, that is not it's purpose but I will bare that in mind, sorry. Also, as far as it's purpose is concerned, I think the help I am receiving from crazyeyesreaper is still proving very helpful.

 

[eidairaman1]

Honestly you dont have to oc to get great performance. Now tbh stock intel and amd coolers do suck in noise dept though and you really dont need a wc setup. Scythe Ashura, Thermaltake NiC, Xigmatek Blackhawk, Prolimatech Genesis, Coolermaster Hyper, all perform well without blocking ram slots either.

by the way your existing motherboard supports the fx4000-83** Series. So it be better as an upgrade without breaking the bank on an entire new setup

 

[TristanD27]

Honestly you dont have to oc to get great performance. Now tbh stock intel and amd coolers do suck in noise dept though and you really dont need a wc setup. Scythe Ashura Thermaltake NiC, Xigmatek Blackhawk, Prolimatech Genesis all perform well without blocking ram slots either.

So would I be ok with the 8350, no OC, the old board and upgraded cooler?

 

[suraswami]

Once you start to compare you won't be happy at anything you got. If I were you I would just get a 8350 keep it at 4.2 all cores use the same cooler, get a 770, stop arguing, get into gaming and don't look back!

 

[eidairaman1]

So would I be ok with the 8350, no OC, the old board and upgraded cooler?

read my previous post.

by the way you can research your existing cooler and see if it is compatible with the 8350. If it is then you just only have a cpu to purchase.

 

[TristanD27]

Once you start to compare you won't be happy at anything you got. If I were you I would just get a 8350 keep it at 4.2 all cores use the same cooler, get a 770, stop arguing, get into gaming and don't look back!

To be honest, I am happy with what I have but wouldn't mind a bit more speed for the 3D modelling/rendering and gaming when I get newer ones.

read my previous post.

by the way you can research your existing cooler and see if it is compatible with the 8350. If it is then you just only have a cpu to purchase.

Sorry, didn't see the edit, I know my board supports the FX series which is why I wondering if that was better then a new mobo and an Intel. I also know that my cooler will fit as its the same board but it might not be up to the job with a new higher end CPU.

That chart is for single player (so it's pretty much worthless). Multiplayer shows greater variance between processor.

This is closer to what you will see:

97 average with a min of 75.... when all I want is 60.... yup, that'll do.

 

[Steevo]

That chart is for single player (so it's pretty much worthless). Multiplayer shows greater variance between processor.

This is closer to what you will see:

If we are looking for cheapest than this graph depicts a i5-760 or FX-6100 would meet the requirements for 60FPS gaming.

We are looking for cheapest rendering HP.

 

[eidairaman1]

Tristan ill provide links to see your cooler in action. Iirc the 8350 is cooler than the 8150

but in due honesty the 6300-83** are worthy upgrades to be considered in performance and overall cost of upgrades.

I highly believe your existing cooler can handle the 8350.