Global Warming & Climate Change Discussion

[FordGT90Concept]

Yeah. Asking people to do away with carbon is like asking them to stick a knife in their eye. CFCs are much easier to concede because there are many alternatives that work just as well.

 

[silkstone]

Yeah IL start for one you used wiki as a backup to your claim anybody can write whatever on wiki , second thing no such thing as true democracy it's the same as the commies looks good on paper but doesn't work BUT it's the best we have, same principal as commies though the people are viewed as sheeple or useful idiots I believe Karl Marx came up with that one.

Communism is an economic system, democracy is a political system. You're comparing apples to oranges like most climate deniers do in their arguments.

 

[REAYTH]

Communism is an economic system, democracy is a political system. You're comparing apples to oranges like most climate deniers do in their arguments.

Exactly. Capitalism works where Communism doesn't.

 

[silkstone]

Exactly. Capitalism works where Communism doesn't.

Which has absolutely no relevance to the original point being replied to.

Little people aren't really being targeted at all. Imagine your CFC comparison for a moment. Lets say it is discovered that CFC's are bad, and a politician (or group) wants to make the world a better place so they straight out ban them. It is never fully explained why, people are just pissed that they can no longer use their favorite hairsprays. So the people don't elect the person in the next election, and the new person promptly brings back CFC's.

"Little people" are being targeted with information so they can make educated decisions. Because the developed world is essentially all democracies people have to want a change to happen for it to happen.

no such thing as true democracy it's the same as the commies looks good on paper but doesn't work BUT it's the best we have, same principal as commies though the people are viewed as sheeple or useful idiots I believe Karl Marx came up with that one.

The word you are looking for is oligarchy, which has nothing to do with Marx or 'sheeple' and is the complete opposite principle to a democracy.

[Edited for clarity]

 

[REAYTH]

Which has absolutely no relevance to the original point being replied to.





The word you are looking for is oligarchy, which has nothing to do with Marx or 'sheeple' and is the complete opposite principle to a democracy.

[Edited for clarity]

I was agreeing with you. Saying its apples and oranges.

 

[Easy Rhino]

There is literally no point (other than wasting your own time) arguing about matters of science on the internet when you don't have the raw data in front of you. You also need years and years of specialized knowledge in the field to truly understand the data and be able to draw some conclusions about it. What's more, as far as global warming/climate change goes, there is nothing that any of us on this forum (or any forum for that matter) can do about it, whether it is real or a hoax. Politicians and un-elected bureaucrats make all the decisions for us and they rarely listen to reason. They mainly listen and endorse ideas that will make them rich. So just remember that when you type breathlessly about something way out of your scope of intelligence and beyond your ability to enact change.

 

[magibeg]

There is literally no point (other than wasting your own time) arguing about matters of science on the internet when you don't have the raw data in front of you. You also need years and years of specialized knowledge in the field to truly understand the data and be able to draw some conclusions about it. What's more, as far as global warming/climate change goes, there is nothing that any of us on this forum (or any forum for that matter) can do about it, whether it is real or a hoax. Politicians and un-elected bureaucrats make all the decisions for us and they rarely listen to reason. They mainly listen and endorse ideas that will make them rich. So just remember that when you type breathlessly about something way out of your scope of intelligence and beyond your ability to enact change.

You would be great at parties

Magibeg: Hey Easy Rhino, what do you think about x?
Easy Rhino: I'm not qualified to comment on x and neither are you.
Magibeg: So how about y then?
Easy Rhino: See above.

Poking fun aside, that reasoning is generally why it's best to listen to the scientists about subjects in their field as opposed to making our own assumptions and claims.

 

[REAYTH]

You would be great at parties

Magibeg: Hey Easy Rhino, what do you think about x?
Easy Rhino: I'm not qualified to comment on x and neither are you.
Magibeg: So how about y then?
Easy Rhino: See above.

Poking fun aside, that reasoning is generally why it's best to listen to the scientists about subjects in their field as opposed to making our own assumptions and claims.

What if you like to watch polar bears drown?

 

[kerlin219]

There is literally no point (other than wasting your own time) arguing about matters of science on the internet when you don't have the raw data in front of you. You also need years and years of specialized knowledge in the field to truly understand the data and be able to draw some conclusions about it. What's more, as far as global warming/climate change goes, there is nothing that any of us on this forum (or any forum for that matter) can do about it, whether it is real or a hoax. Politicians and un-elected bureaucrats make all the decisions for us and they rarely listen to reason. They mainly listen and endorse ideas that will make them rich. So just remember that when you type breathlessly about something way out of your scope of intelligence and beyond your ability to enact change.

Agee 100% great post

 

[kerlin219]

Communism is an economic system, democracy is a political system. You're comparing apples to oranges like most climate deniers do in their arguments.

Yeah an economic system started by a political movement

 

[magibeg]

Yeah an economic system started by a political movement

Yea, a political movement started by the peoples will for one to happen.

 

[dorsetknob]

What if you like to watch polar bears drown?

They Swim rather well with good long distance endurance
they also Shit in the water they swim in

 

[silkstone]

What's more, as far as global warming/climate change goes, there is nothing that any of us on this forum (or any forum for that matter) can do about it, whether it is real or a hoax. Politicians and un-elected bureaucrats make all the decisions for us and they rarely listen to reason. They mainly listen and endorse ideas that will make them rich. So just remember that when you type breathlessly about something way out of your scope of intelligence and beyond your ability to enact change.

There's plenty people can do, just like we have done many times in the past.

 

[kerlin219]

There's plenty people can do, just like we have done many times in the past.

Care to expand on that.

 

[magibeg]

Care to expand on that.

Not sure exactly what you're asking for here, do you mean things like the creation of human rights? Workers rights? Social security? Clean Air Act? (things pertaining to just the United States) or are you referring to a more broad sense of anytime people have banded together to progress society such as nearly every time a dictator has been toppled or nearly every charity on earth. That is just scratching the surface of the broadness of what you're asking for. Popular opinion has all the power. That's why even horrible places like north korea rely so heavily on brainwashing to get the peoples favor. Even their leaders fear the people during times of unrest.

 

[kerlin219]

Not sure exactly what you're asking for here, do you mean things like the creation of human rights? Workers rights? Social security? Clean Air Act? (things pertaining to just the United States) or are you referring to a more broad sense of anytime people have banded together to progress society such as nearly every time a dictator has been toppled or nearly every charity on earth. That is just scratching the surface of the broadness of what you're asking for. Popular opinion has all the power. That's why even horrible places like north korea rely so heavily on brainwashing to get the peoples favor. Even their leaders fear the people during times of unrest.

Was leaning more towards when have we actually stopped the destruction of the planet as global warming (climate change) is supposedly threatened to do, but you came up with good examples of how we have changed our current path good post

 

[SK-1]

This is climate change...in action. Because, you know... it was all based on "science." The media treats fear like a one night stand...
Their predictions from 2008 for TODAY. Milk was supposed to be $15.99 a gal. Gas $9.99 a gal. Fear mongering from the sky is falling crowd.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Going way off topic here...

Popular opinion has all the power.

I'd argue not. Nuclear weapons were developed around the world in secret. Thousands of detonations of nuclear weapons have also occurred in secret. Popular opinion had little to no effect on the trajectory of nuclear weapons. The decommissioning of massive stockpiles of nuclear weapons were accomplished through back room negotiations (specifically, the START programs). Public opinion actually has surprisingly little effect when you look at the fabric of history. Prime example: popular opinion is almost always against war but human history is littered with it. Democracy is a façade to hide the power plays.

That's why even horrible places like north korea rely so heavily on brainwashing to get the peoples favor.

Brainwashing? No, that's more prevalent in the West. North Koreans live in an information black hole. They know nothing outside of what they're told. Can sheep be brainwashed or are they simply functioning on what they know to be true? Case in point: they know that if they speak against the Dear Leader, they'll be reprimanded likely for life. It's obedience through conditioning, not brainwashing. Brainwashing is living with the belief you are free but guess what are most doing almost every day? Working to pay off debts. Most of us live under a system of indentured servitude; the only reason we don't call it out for what it is because it is the modern day normal. We're all notches in massive cogs whom no one has absolute control over. This speech comes to mind:

Even their leaders fear the people during times of unrest.

That's a personality trait common with all dictators. I believe it is narcissism. When they see control slipping, they instantly turn their attention to their own survival and run--usually trying to flea the country. Again, won't happen in North Korea because most of the population knows no alternative.


Back on topic...
As I said previously, the only solution to rising atmospheric carbon dioxide levels in the foreseeable future is nuclear fission and fusion. The only way we stop using anthropomorphic reserves of carbon is to completely and utterly replace them. Any carbon that is needed otherwise (e.g. to produce plastics) would have to be extracted from the atmosphere.


The current strategy of improving fuel economy and using more biofuels only slows the trend but will fail to stop it.

Ethanol, without engines specifically designed to run on exclusively ethanol (Cummins is working on one), actually end up saving nothing. In an E85 Ready gasoline engine, the loss in power when running on E85 is compensated by higher fuel consumption so all savings are wiped out from having used gasoline in the first place. When you factor in all the carbon costs to produce E85 compared to gasoline, E85 ends up being much worse at the end of the day per distance traveled.

B20 is cheaper than petro diesel because of subsidies.

I could go on...

 

[qubit]

"Britain braced for mini-ice age as temperatures are set to drop to a 300-year low" reports a news article.

But it won't save us from global warming, apparently.

Have a read and see what you think. With so much politics and money meddling with the science, I still don't know what to believe when it comes to global warming. All I can say with some certainty, is that the weather seems a bit different to what I remember as a kid and that can happen by natural weather changes as well as man made.

If you were enjoying the current warm spell, enjoy it while it lasts as forecasters have warned that the UK could enter a mini-ice age.

A Met Office-led study in conjunction with scientists at the Universities of Oxford, Cambridge and Reading, found that a return to low solar activity not seen for centuries could increase the chances of cold winters in Europe and eastern parts of the United States.

But the study, which was published in the Nature Communications journal, added that the freeze will not be enough to halt global warming.

http://home.bt.com/news/uk-news/bri...-set-to-drop-to-a-300-year-low-11363988285992

 

[dorsetknob]

They Said this in the 70s

"Britain braced for mini-ice age as temperatures are set to drop to a 300-year low" reports a news article.

Old News indeed who's bucking for another University researcher grant then

In Other News Scientist Clone Mammoths and Mcdonnalds say they will sell big McMammoths burgers

Global warming will be a fact when good old Sol goes into its red giant stage of life
till then there is no real need to worry we got a few years before that happens

 

[magibeg]

s and money meddling with the science, I still don't know what to believe when it comes to global warming. All I can say with some certainty, is that the weather seems a bit different to what I remember as a kid and that can happen by natural weather changes as well as man made.

I don't know where everyone gets the idea that money meddles with science.

http://arstechnica.com/science/2011...sts-push-the-consensus-its-not-for-the-money/

That is a bit of an older article but it helps explain the insanity of claiming such a position.


Also the reason why it is now called "climate change" is because changes will not be a linear warmth over the whole world. Britain is very susceptible to influences from the golf stream for example. If you look at where Britain is on a map, it's as north as James bay in Canada. To my knowledge Britain is actually supposed to get colder as the golf stream shuts down.

They Said this in the 70s


Old News indeed who's bucking for another University researcher grant then

In Other News Scientist Clone Mammoths and Mcdonnalds say they will sell big McMammoths burgers

Global warming will be a fact when good old Sol goes into its red giant stage of life
till then there is no real need to worry we got a few years before that happens

They didn't say this is the 70's. I challenge YOU to find scientific articles from the 70's saying such things. The few that do talk about cooling refer to the heavy use of aerosols causing a cooling effect. The media ran with it unfortunately and now there is this misconception that there was a 70's cooling scare. Heck at least wikipedia something before you take a position on it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Global_cooling


Also that's not how university research grants work.

 

[dorsetknob]

I don't know where everyone gets the idea that money meddles with science.

http://arstechnica.com/science/2011...sts-push-the-consensus-its-not-for-the-money/

That is a bit of an older article but it helps explain the insanity of claiming such a position.


Also the reason why it is now called "climate change" is because changes will not be a linear warmth over the whole world. Britain is very susceptible to influences from the golf stream for example. If you look at where Britain is on a map, it's as north as James bay in Canada. To my knowledge Britain is actually supposed to get colder as the golf stream shuts down.




They didn't say this is the 70's. I challenge YOU to find scientific articles from the 70's saying such things. The few that do talk about cooling refer to the heavy use of aerosols causing a cooling effect. The media ran with it unfortunately and now there is this misconception that there was a 70's cooling scare. Heck at least wikipedia something before you take a position on it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Global_cooling


Also that's not how university research grants work.

You forgot to re quote this

In Other News Scientist Clone Mammoths and Mcdonnalds say they will sell big McMammoths burgers

Now Thats Important News for the couch potatoe's

 

[magibeg]

If they are able to create a mammoth burger, i'm definitely game to try it. Just not sure what elephant meat tastes like, would have to wait for reviews.

 

[CAPSLOCKSTUCK]

If they are able to create a mammoth burger, i'm definitely game to try it. Just not sure what elephant meat tastes like, would have to wait for reviews.

I cant wait around for elephant reviews i would much rather base my opinion on unfounded speculation.

I vote McRhinoceros burgers especially if they have HBM sauce.

 

[dorsetknob]

I don't know where everyone gets the idea that money meddles with science.

Money pays for Science "Fact" if the science throws up things Money dont like it gets Buried

If Pepsucki fund research about Artificial sweeteners and the science say they give you cancer of the nutsack then its in Pepsucki interest not to publish the science papers they own/paid for the Research
Ie
If an Academic is doing paid research. the people paying own that/their Research its up to them if they allow it to be published

Yes ITS HAPPENED and its Always happining you only hear about it if the Research is leaked to the press / world

If they are able to create a mammoth burger, i'm definitely game to try it. Just not sure what elephant meat tastes like, would have to wait for reviews

Mammoth meat has been eaten and by people of this time frame
specimens from Siberia have been dug up from the perma frost (Nature's Iceland Freezer Food Center) and cooked and consumed