Vega, Massively faster than GTX 1080 in DOOM 4K.

[R-T-B]

People also underestimate how much the mining game destroyed AMD's image.

AMD cashed in on it in the short term, but all the used cards that died within 3 weeks of shipping that flooded the market? You can't tell me that was good for their image.

...And no, I'm not arguing that was their fault. It wasn't. They were victimized all the same though.

 

[MxPhenom 216]

Careful, You're going to get the haters who tell you the price means it isn't mid-range, and to hell with NVIDIA's own classification system which shows GP-104 to be the mid-range chip.

Doesn't change the fact that they are fast AF.

 

[RejZoR]

People also underestimate how much the mining game destroyed AMD's image.

AMD cashed in on it in the short term, but all the used cards that died within 3 weeks of shipping that flooded the market? You can't tell me that was good for their image.

...And no, I'm not arguing that was their fault. It wasn't. They were victimized all the same though.

Wrong. It's the dumb people. In reality, it should even help them. Sell cards like hot cakes for mining and then have bunch of used cards no one wants to buy because they are questionable. That's the best scenario one can have, menaing you can lure people more into buying next gen NEW cards instead of old used ones. But people only see low price and then whine because their trashed graphic card dies after 2 months. It's why I rarely buy used goods, because you can't ever know their history or quality. If it's bad, you're the only one to blame, not AMD. I fI buy new one and have tons of problems, then you're OK to bitch over AMD and their quality if found poor. But people just don't think that way. They just see the low price.

 

[R-T-B]

Wrong. It's the dumb people. In reality, it should even help them. Sell cards like hot cakes for mining and then have bunch of used cards no one wants to buy because they are questionable. That's the best scenario one can have, menaing you can lure people more into buying next gen NEW cards instead of old used ones. But people only see low price and then whine because their trashed graphic card dies after 2 months. It's why I rarely buy used goods, because you can't ever know their history or quality. If it's bad, you're the only one to blame, not AMD. I fI buy new one and have tons of problems, then you're OK to bitch over AMD and their quality if found poor. But people just don't think that way. They just see the low price.

"Dumb people" define a large segment of the market, you know.

It's "Dumb People" that buy a used card, have it fail, buy a new NVIDIA card (that wasn't used for mining) and have it work, and then conclude somehow "NVIDIA is better quality." Guess what they are buying next time?

There are more people like this than you think, and whether or not it's stupid is beside the point. It hurts AMD the same.

 

[EarthDog]

Nothing new....

We want to see how it runs without Vulkan, how many games support Vulkan?
Also I want to see how it performs in DX11, would it still be better than a GTX1080?

Another thread??? Oy. Search first peeps!

Like though how this thread tithe has MASSIVE in it.....for a 10% difference. Wowzas.

 

[RejZoR]

My statement still stands correct. Dumb people.

 

[P4-630]

Another thread??? Oy. Search first peeps!

Like though how this thread tithe has MASSIVE in it.....for a 10% difference. Wowzas.

Not sure why you are quoting me, it's not my thread....

 

[EarthDog]

Stay with me...

I quoted you because you said 'nothing new'. Thanked the post even...

 

[NdMk2o1o]

"Dumb people" define a large segment of the market, you know.

It's "Dumb People" that buy a used card, have it fail, buy a new NVIDIA card (that wasn't used for mining) and have it work, and then conclude somehow "NVIDIA is better quality." Guess what they are buying next time?

There are more people like this than you think, and whether or not it's stupid is beside the point. It hurts AMD the same.

So anyone who buys a used item that fails will automatically buy a new item from a rival brand and compare a brand new item to that of a new and thus conclude that the used item brand is crap? What a load of bollocks, excuse my French.... hardware homewares, electronics, anything used is a gamble and everyone buying used knows this, stop turning it into nvidia vs amd cause your logic is flawed and you're sounding a little fanboyish

 

[R-T-B]

So anyone who buys a used item that fails will automatically buy a new item from a rival brand and compare a brand new item to that of a new and thus conclude that the used item brand is crap?

Not anyone. Anyone dumb. And the average consumer is quite dumb.

This isn't AMD's fault as I've repeatedly stated, so don't "fanboy" me. It doesn't work like that. They couldn't possibly have anticipated their cards being good at OpenCL would involve a strange segment of the population buying every single one of them off the shelves, frying them, and selling them used.

I mean who would? Fact is for about 2 years, if you wanted an AMD card like the 7970, it was $600, or used. Pick your poison. Guess what a lot of people picked? And guess what happened? Guess what the average dumb consumer concluded?

This isn't fanboyism. This is hard facts. Unless you have a lot more faith in the average consumer than I do, that is.

I was a miner. I've owned more AMD hardware than any of you probably have in your lives (I had 6 7970's in parallel at one point in time). I know what I'm talking about here.

My statement still stands correct. Dumb people.

And mine does too. Dumb people help define AMD's image if we accept that they make up a large portion of the consumer base. That's the truth.

 

[ratirt]

My statement still stands correct. Dumb people.

I don't consider myself "dumb people" and I have bought used GTX 670 (that died after 2 weeks) and then I got 780 ti and that one is OK. I don't even blame Nvidia for the failure. If I had blame Nvidia that would be dumb. So please stop putting everybody into the same basket with your point of view. Reason for me to buy used since I'm waiting for Vega. don't wanna buy Nvidia overpriced GPU's and in my opinion they are. (but that's just my opinion).

BTW if you make opinions bring them to the table but don't make opinions about other people and what were their reasons for buying used cards since you don't know that.

 

[R-T-B]

I don't think all people who bought used cards are dumb. I think people who buy used cards and switch brands when they fail are dumb.

And I think that's a lot more common than people here realize with the AMD cards that were sold enmasse as post-mining cards. Because let's face it, the average consumer thinks if it has more graphics memory, it's better. They are potatoes.

On a related note, guess what had a lot of memory and was cheap around the time the mining craze ended?

 

[NdMk2o1o]

I don't think all people who bought used cards are dumb. I think people who buy used cards and switch brands when they fail are dumb.

And I think that's a lot more common than people here realize with the AMD cards that were sold enmasse as post-mining cards. Because let's face it, the average consumer thinks if it has more graphics memory, it's better. They are potatoes.

On a related note, guess what had a lot of memory and was cheap around the time the mining craze ended?

Without any facts or figures you can guess all you like based on your experience, knowledge etc and you're still clutching at straws cause you have no knowledge of what kind of ratio of cards in the second hand market were bought as miners or for gaming... You act like the Internet is awash with millions of people crying about their second hand amd cards dying on them in a matter of days then going to the green team and all their problems and worries are over lol

 

[R-T-B]

Without any facts or figures you can guess all you like based on your experience, knowledge etc and you're still clutching at straws cause you have no knowledge of what kind of ratio of cards in the second hand market were bought as miners or for gaming... You act like the Internet is awash with millions of people crying about their second hand amd cards dying on them in a matter of days then going to the green team and all their problems and worries are over lol

Were you on these forums in 2014-2015? It pretty much was. Heck, we still get some on occasion.

But yeah, I have nothing other than anecdotal evidence, and experience in the mining field. Excuse me, but I never claimed otherwise.

The huge price leap in AMD hardware around GCN debut was widely attributed by the media to litecoin/bitcoin mining, however. That's factual. Maybe it was 90% miners and maybe it was 60%. The point is there were a lot, enough to nearly double the price at peak.

I'm just saying my thoughts on the matter, take them for whatever they are worth. But don't call them fanboy driven, that's just silly.

I'm really just arguing there are a large percentage of stupid people that hurt everyone out there. If NVIDIA had been used for mining, I'd be saying this whole thing the other way around.

 

[NdMk2o1o]

Were you on these forums in 2014-2015? It pretty much was. Heck, we still get some on occasion.

But yeah, I have nothing other than anecdotal evidence, and experience in the field. Excuse me, but I never claimed otherwise.

The huge price leap was widely attributed by the media to litecoin/bitcoin mining, however. That's factual. Maybe it was 90% miners and maybe it was 60%. The point is there were a lot.

I'm just saying my thoughts on the matter, take them for whatever they are worth. But don't call them fanboy driven, that's just silly.

No, I've only been around these forums for a month or two

I disagree with you saying their prices were inflated cause of their mining capabilities however as they were priced accordingly compared to similarly performing nvidia parts Iirc in fact having owned more than a couple 7950's myself they were priced lower (lower than 670's)and likewise the 7970 vs 680 etc

I'd hazard a guess that the percentage of mining cards sold compared to gaming was probably 10% if that. Now the reason that you've seen so many threads related to these ex mining cards is because we're on a tech forum and that's generally where people go when they have issues to find answers, that doesn't mean the number of related threads directly translates into the total number of people who ever bought a used amd card in the last couple of years.

It's like company reviews, people will only tend to make them when they've had a bad experience with a company but again it's not representative of the bigger picture, at least not in my opinion anyway we digress, my bad

 

[EarthDog]

Prices were inflated on the used market because of mining, that is for sure. As far as new, supply and demand there raised the prices... partially due to the GPU mining craze and how well it crunched on their GPUs.

 

[Ungari]

You're correct. A successful company like NVIDIA has plenty of advertising money. That's something AMD doesn't have. They need success to have the money to be common in people's minds, but they have to be well known and purchased by people to have that success. It's almost a no-win for them, no matter how good the product, and they've made some very fine ones.

About the 970, no matter what the hate poured on it for having 1/2 gig slower RAM, and the lawsuit, do you know why it was and is popular? Because it's a damned fine GPU, as anyone who has used one knows. Bottom line it performs well, with low heat output, and high over clocking, and handles most everything thrown at it as long as you don't try to make it do 4K or maxed out 1440p.

Anyone who had bought and are still buying GTX 970s, are simply uninformed and are basing their purchase on the tremendous popularity of this card.
With some custom RX 480 4GBs priced well below $200, and the huge performance leap of the GTX 1060, there is no reason to buy a 970 anymore.

 

[R-T-B]

No, I've only been around these forums for a month or two

I disagree with you saying their prices were inflated cause of their mining capabilities however as they were priced accordingly compared to similarly performing nvidia parts Iirc in fact having owned more than a couple 7950's myself they were priced lower (lower than 670's)and likewise the 7970 vs 680 etc

I'd hazard a guess that the percentage of mining cards sold compared to gaming was probably 10% if that. Now the reason that you've seen so many threads related to these ex mining cards is because we're on a tech forum and that's generally where people go when they have issues to find answers, that doesn't mean the number of related threads directly translates into the total number of people who ever bought a used amd card in the last couple of years.

It's like company reviews, people will only tend to make them when they've had a bad experience with a company but again it's not representative of the bigger picture, at least not in my opinion anyway we digress, my bad

You must have missed that part of the mining craze where AMD GCN GPUs were literally universally sold out.

I know, because I was trying to buy more then.

10% seems... impossible.

 

[EarthDog]

Anyone who had bought and are still buying GTX 970s, are simply uninformed and are basing their purchase on the tremendous popularity of this card.

Wait what??? They are?

Or maybe others keep making a huge deal out of nothing...particularly at 1080p (I ran one at 2560x1440 for a while, in fact). Uninformed... LOLOLOL. Come on, if anything is uniformed, its this part of your post... Get your head out of AMD's arse. See the forest through the trees... I mean that's what you make us do for AMD, minimizing their shitstorms, but, I suppose whats good for the goose, isn't good for the gander when its talking the brand you like.

People would take you more seriously if there wasn't such a blatant and blind 'lean' towards nearly everything you post here at TPU.

 

[R-T-B]

https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/...urts-more-than-helps-brand-amd-radeon.196320/

Relevant reading to support my demand claims.

Note the actual op is wrong about it's claims (it's an editorial), as the reason european inventories were fine was actually energy costs and not inventory being plentiful, but it should establish that $399 R9 290X's shot up to $700.00 per card for a bit.

 

[dozenfury]

3dguru hasn't benched Vega, just Vulkan vs. Opengl. Before the 480 came out people were saying it would be as fast as the 1080 or at least 1070 for less than 1/2 the price by just going off of AMD's marketing slides. And then it came out and reality set in that it's a 1060 competitor and nowhere near the 1070. I'm hopeful for Vega and want NV competition, but the 480 situation showed we need to wait for 3rd party real benches on the Vega and those have not been done yet.

 

[bug]

Wth, the linked article doesn't even mention Doom. It's not about consumer video cards.

 

[rtwjunkie]

Anyone who had bought and are still buying GTX 970s, are simply uninformed

So you've never tried one? It's obvious you haven't. It's still good for 1080p now, although there are now much better options. But before Pascal and before the RX 480, it may have been one of the best all-around performers and fairly affordable.

The majority of sales for it came AFTER the 3.5GB fast VRAM info became public, because it was something a) mostly invisible to most users, and b) the performance is so good that word of mouth sold people. You'll find most user reviews people were aware of the memory divide, and took a chance anyway based on others' good experiences. And they in turn overwhelmingly were not disappointed.

So maybe you are the one uninformed.

 

[NdMk2o1o]

I haven't got time to dissect a 3 year old editorial year is based on "some US retailers" inflating prices, this still goes on just look on amazon and ebay. The 970 is still selling well for the simple fact they had to knock £100 off the price of it when the 480 was released and are still making profit on the cards as with all nvidia cards they were overpriced until something from amd came along to better it at a better price point, that's down to amd however but I still don't like the ethics behind it...

 

[Ungari]

Wait what??? They are?

Or maybe others keep making a huge deal out of nothing...particularly at 1080p (I ran one at 2560x1440 for a while, in fact). Uninformed... LOLOLOL. Come on, if anything is uniformed, its this part of your post... Get your head out of AMD's arse. See the forest through the trees... I mean that's what you make us do for AMD, minimizing their shitstorms, but, I suppose whats good for the goose, isn't good for the gander when its talking the brand you like.

People would take you more seriously if there wasn't such a blatant and blind 'lean' towards nearly everything you post here at TPU.

I also included the GTX 1060 in my comment, so I really don't know what you are talking about, do you?