Vega, Massively faster than GTX 1080 in DOOM 4K.

[R-T-B]

I haven't got time to dissect a 3 year old editorial year is based on "some US retailers" inflating prices, this still goes on just look on amazon and ebay. The 970 is still selling well for the simple fact they had to knock £100 off the price of it when the 480 was released and are still making profit on the cards as with all nvidia cards they were overpriced until something from amd came along to better it at a better price point, that's down to amd however but I still don't like the ethics behind it...

It was all US retailers.

I get why you are unaware of this now. Europe was unaffected by the mining craze due to energy cost. My appologies, I was doing that "America=world" thing. Guilty.

 

[mouacyk]

I thought this was some new revelation about Vega. But the same old 10%, no thanks. Beating a mid range by 10% is still mid range.

 

[HTC]

so 10% on a game where AMD is faster is really not alot... the vega and the 1080 are going to be trading blows depending on the game... in DOOM vulkan AMD performs excellent, but then in Dishonored 2 is a different story.

View attachment 82093View attachment 82094

Look at the FuryX difference between the two... Arguably DOOM is the best performing AMD game, so if the best case is a 10% victory; then in the games where the Fury X is getting spanked by a 1060, then the Vega will still lose.

Supposedly, it's 10% faster in doom WHILE using drivers made for a DIFFERENT card AND while debugging @ the same time.

That said, we still don't have an idea of what the actual performance of this vega card will be but, considering the way it beats the 1080 with these handicaps, it's lead MAY prove to be quite significant.

Time will tell.

 

[Recon-UK]

 

[phanbuey]

Supposedly, it's 10% faster in doom WHILE using drivers made for a DIFFERENT card AND while debugging @ the same time.

That said, we still don't have an idea of what the actual performance of this vega card will be but, considering the way it beats the 1080 with these handicaps, it's lead MAY prove to be quite significant.

Time will tell.

I hope it will, I hope it mops the floor with the 1080, and drops before march.

 

[the54thvoid]

Supposedly, it's 10% faster in doom WHILE using drivers made for a DIFFERENT card AND while debugging @ the same time.

That said, we still don't have an idea of what the actual performance of this vega card will be but, considering the way it beats the 1080 with these handicaps, it's lead MAY prove to be quite significant.

Time will tell.

To be clear, I'm neutrally defending Vega but the driver issue for a Vulkan game for AMD is far less relevant than if they were demo'ing a DX11 game. Given the general consensus Vega is the last iteration of GCN before the new architecture kicks in for Navi(?) the software support is baked into the low level API. Yes it still needs drivers but the whole point of Vulkan is to be easier coded and take the stress of the hardware vendor.

 

[Recon-UK]

I thought this was some new revelation about Vega. But the same old 10%, no thanks. Beating a mid range by 10% is still mid range.

GTX 1080 is mid range?

650 GBP GPU is mid range?

 

[phanbuey]

GTX 1080 is mid range?

650 GBP GPU is mid range?

Haha... 1080 = 680 (and i say this and I own one).. this is what happens when AMD don't show to the party.

600 bones for the same chip that's in a laptop :| and needs 1x vga power connector, and is artificially limited.

 

[rtwjunkie]

GTX 1080 is mid range?

650 GBP GPU is mid range?

Yes. Price does not dictate a product's placement in the hierarchy. The chip used does. GP104 is the mid-level GPU chip.

Cost is out of control for consumers because AMD has had so little input.

Edit: And, @the54thvoid explained it much better than I.

 

[the54thvoid]

GTX 1080 is mid range?

650 GBP GPU is mid range?

Indeed. It's all down to the architecture, not the price. Price is dependent upon competition. Given we have a top tier GP102 consumer Pascal card (Titan X), the 1080 is not the top card, it's the performance option. The1070 would be classed as sort of mid range I guess. But, the thing is, both 1070 and 1080 are from the GP104 chip. So, to make it really complicated, 1080 is the top tier GP104 chip but GP102 (Titan X) is the top tier Pascal card.

edit: ninja'd by @rtwjunkie

 

[nolafotoknut]

Heavy injection of cash-flow from sales will cover a multitude of bad management decisions, and always have.

AMD is so far gone, I do not believe that any amount of "cash flow" can turn around bad management decisions. Please see the research I did below for my MIS class based on AMD's Income Statements and Balance Sheets:


Income Statement (Figure 1)

AMD (AMD) has had declining Gross Profit for the past three years. The Cost of Revenue is 73% of AMD’s Total Revenue which has significantly increased since 2013 which has caused AMD’s Operating Income to greatly decrease from $103 million in 2013 to a loss of $481 million in 2015. For Operating Expenses, Research and Development (R&D) has decreased since 2013 from $1.2 billion to $947 million in 2015. Although this decrease is not solely indicative of innovation, it does reflect that there may not be many products in AMD’s pipeline. Sales, General and Admin (SG&A) expense has decreased which could be a reflection of possible layoffs. Total Net Income is a loss of $660 million. In 2012, AMD had a negative Net Income of $1.2 billion and saw somewhat of a positive growth in 2013 with only a negative Net Income of $83 million. However, the Net Income has had a steady decline mostly attributed to the decrease in Gross Profit. The income statement reflects a steady and declining growth.

Balance Sheet (Figure 2)

Total Current Assets have decreased from $2.7 billion in 2014 to $2.3 billion in 2015. This decrease is related to a decrease in Cash and Cash Equivalents, Short-Term Investments, Net Receivables, Inventory. The decrease in net receivables is indicative of customers paying their accounts. AMD has had no Long-Term Investments since 2013 and Fixed Assets have decreased by $470 million which could be due to the sale of property or real estate. Total Assets has decreased from $4 billion in 2012 to $3.1 billion in 2015. Accounts Payable has decreased by approximately $155 million which could be related to raw material due to decreased sales. Current Liabilities has remained relatively constant from the previous period. Total Liabilities & Equity has decreased from $3.76 million in 2014 to $3.1 million in 2015. This change is related to the decline in Retained Earnings.

AMD’s forecast looks to be on a declining trend. AMD will need to invest in R&D in order to have innovative products in its pipeline. However, innovation could take several years, leaving AMD to try to stop the bleeding. Based on its Income Statement and Balance Sheet, AMD is not an investment worthy company at this time and will need to consider ways to revamp its innovation strategies to keep up with its competition.


Fig. 1

 

[Ungari]

AMD is so far gone, I do not believe that any amount of "cash flow" can turn around bad management decisions. Please see the research I did below for my MIS class based on AMD's Income Statements and Balance Sheets:


Income Statement (Figure 1)

AMD (AMD) has had declining Gross Profit for the past three years. The Cost of Revenue is 73% of AMD’s Total Revenue which has significantly increased since 2013 which has caused AMD’s Operating Income to greatly decrease from $103 million in 2013 to a loss of $481 million in 2015. For Operating Expenses, Research and Development (R&D) has decreased since 2013 from $1.2 billion to $947 million in 2015. Although this decrease is not solely indicative of innovation, it does reflect that there may not be many products in AMD’s pipeline. Sales, General and Admin (SG&A) expense has decreased which could be a reflection of possible layoffs. Total Net Income is a loss of $660 million. In 2012, AMD had a negative Net Income of $1.2 billion and saw somewhat of a positive growth in 2013 with only a negative Net Income of $83 million. However, the Net Income has had a steady decline mostly attributed to the decrease in Gross Profit. The income statement reflects a steady and declining growth.

Balance Sheet (Figure 2)

Total Current Assets have decreased from $2.7 billion in 2014 to $2.3 billion in 2015. This decrease is related to a decrease in Cash and Cash Equivalents, Short-Term Investments, Net Receivables, Inventory. The decrease in net receivables is indicative of customers paying their accounts. AMD has had no Long-Term Investments since 2013 and Fixed Assets have decreased by $470 million which could be due to the sale of property or real estate. Total Assets has decreased from $4 billion in 2012 to $3.1 billion in 2015. Accounts Payable has decreased by approximately $155 million which could be related to raw material due to decreased sales. Current Liabilities has remained relatively constant from the previous period. Total Liabilities & Equity has decreased from $3.76 million in 2014 to $3.1 million in 2015. This change is related to the decline in Retained Earnings.

AMD’s forecast looks to be on a declining trend. AMD will need to invest in R&D in order to have innovative products in its pipeline. However, innovation could take several years, leaving AMD to try to stop the bleeding. Based on its Income Statement and Balance Sheet, AMD is not an investment worthy company at this time and will need to consider ways to revamp its innovation strategies to keep up with its competition.


Fig. 1

Thanks for showing documentation to back-up my claims that the mindshare owned by Nvidia has led to reduced funding for R&D.

 

[nolafotoknut]

Thanks for showing documentation to back-up my claims that the mindshare owned by Nvidia has led to reduced funding for R&D.

Um, nowhere did I say that the "mindshare" owned by NVIDIA has led to reduced funding for R&D!! These are AMD's financials in which they owe more than what they're worth and no amount of money can really save them at this point. You, sir, should stick to reading what is posted rather than imagine things that are not there. Brainwashed at its finest!

 

[cdawall]

so 10% on a game where AMD is faster is really not alot... the vega and the 1080 are going to be trading blows depending on the game... in DOOM vulkan AMD performs excellent, but then in Dishonored 2 is a different story.

View attachment 82093View attachment 82094

Look at the FuryX difference between the two... Arguably DOOM is the best performing AMD game, so if the best case is a 10% victory; then in the games where the Fury X is getting spanked by a 1060, then the Vega will still lose.

Out of curiosity is this pre or post driver update for amd? Cat 16.12 was a pretty nice boost.

 

[thesmokingman]

AMD is so far gone

AMD’s forecast looks to be on a declining trend. AMD will need to invest in R&D in order to have innovative products in its pipeline. However, innovation could take several years, leaving AMD to try to stop the bleeding. Based on its Income Statement and Balance Sheet, AMD is not an investment worthy company at this time and will need to consider ways to revamp its innovation strategies to keep up with its competition.


Fig. 1

^^That's a lil out of date.

AMD was too far gone, but they are in rebuilding phase and they already sunk their load into R&D and the fruit of that investment is evident in Zen and Vega. Slowly but surely they are repaying the debt, and so far from New Horizons it sure looks like they can do a helluvalot more with their minuscule R&D budget than anyone else out there especially when taken in context of the competitors they face. This is why I don't eat up what market analysts research. They never understand the details of the tech field. Who here bought AMD stock when it was 2 bucks?

 

[nolafotoknut]

That's a lil out of date

These are their financials as of 12/26/2015. This year's annual financials haven't been released; therefore, these are the most current annual statements available.

 

[thesmokingman]

These are their financials as of 12/26/2015. This year's annual financials haven't been released; therefore, these are the most current annual statements available.

It's not the data, but in how they are perceived. Wall Street is clueless about what is actually happening. AMD on paper is doom and gloom, that's obvious. But if a company that is in such a shitty place, how is it that some of us bought into the stock at $2 bucks a share knowing exactly where AMD was going. And guess what, all that is coming to fruition right now. What's the stock growth in the last year, as WS upgrades AMD and the target is push yet again this time to 15 bucks?

 

[rtwjunkie]

This is why I don't eat up what market analysts research. They never understand the details of the tech field.

It did say MIS degree, which is tech field.

 

[phanbuey]

Out of curiosity is this pre or post driver update for amd? Cat 16.12 was a pretty nice boost.

Post update - it was W1zz's review

 

[NdMk2o1o]

The usual crap in here I see, unsubbing as I already have so many NV is the best and AMD are going up in flames threads to keep an eye on..

noleftnut thanks for your 2 year old AMD financials you forgot to add the bit in the last FY there stock has quadrupled and they have started to turn a profit but hey why let the truth get in the way of a quick AMD bashing

 

[Ungari]

^^That's a lil out of date.

AMD was too far gone, but they are in rebuilding phase and they already sunk their load into R&D and the fruit of that investment is evident in Zen and Vega. Slowly but surely they are repaying the debt, and so far from New Horizons it sure looks like they can do a helluvalot more with their minuscule R&D budget than anyone else out there especially when taken in context of the competitors they face. This is why I don't eat up what market analysts research. They never understand the details of the tech field. Who here bought AMD stock when it was 2 bucks?

For a company accused of mismanagement they sure have done a lot on a shoestring budget, have they not?

 

[thesmokingman]

For a company accused of mismanagement they sure have done a lot on a shoestring budget, have they not?

Accused of? There's being objective and there's just flat out denial and you are still in denial. Hector Ruiz... google what happened under that asshat. And their progress to recovery and push to Zen and Vega, this is their last stand. If either fails, AMD is done. Thus it really will be a freaking miracle if they can pull this off.

 

[64K]

I have to say that AMD doesn't owe more than they are worth. That was true 9 months ago but AMD's financial situation has improved considerably since then. They presently have debts totalling a little over 2 billion dollars but today their stock is trading at $10.70 a share with a Market Cap of 10 billion dollars. A short while back AMD decided to release 80 million new shares and raised around 600 million dollars and 450 million dollars in convertible notes which they plan to use to pay down debt further reducing their approximate 2 billion dollar debt.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/stockdetails/fi-126.1.AMD.NAS?symbol=AMD&form=PRFISH

http://www.fool.com/investing/2016/09/09/amd-takes-advantage-of-its-soaring-stock-price.aspx

Their stock price is the highest it has been in 6 years.

 

[rtwjunkie]

noleftnut thanks for your 2 year old AMD financials

Hmmmmm......12/26/15 Annual Financials released by AMD to 12/16/16 means not even a year and no new financials yet released by AMD. My math may be hazy, but I'm pretty sure it's not two years.

We still need AMD to release their Annual figures to see how all the stock sales will play out on their yearly financial. Until then it's all speculation and the only thing we have is their last one.

 

[cdawall]

For a company accused of mismanagement they sure have done a lot on a shoestring budget, have they not?

They fired quite a bit of management...