Upgrade 2500k

[FerK]

Hello, I have a 2500k currently clocked at 4.4 ghz (beyond that, it requires 1.36v or more). I was waiting for Ryzen+ to be released, because the current Ryzen is an upgrade, but probably not big enough for the money. Maybe in the low 1% fps or so (I play on 60hz and that's all I want, 60 steady fps). The problem is not so much the price of the cpu or mb, but the RAM prices (€200 for 16GB).

Now a friend of mine is replacing his 4770k for a 8700k in the next few days, and he has offered it to me at a reduced price (we didn't talk about the price yet). He hasn't overclocked it until a few days ago (4.2ghz at 1.18v) and it shouldn't have any problems.

I don't know how much of an improvement there is, because I tried to look for some comparison and they all are pretty dated. I guess games today may make use of more threads than in the past. I also do some H265 encoding so the extra threads would be useful.

So, taking into account that I could re-use my current RAM (16GB G-Skill 1600 CL9), I think it wouldn't be a bad upgrade. Sell my i5 2500k and the motherboard (how much can I get, 100 euro for both?) and get his 4770k for a little more. I think that keeping his current OC (or getting a little bit more, depending on temperatures) and I'm set for the next couple of years, hopefully by a time in which the RAM prices aren't that crazy.

What do you think?

Regards.

 

[Vario]

I'd wait until you Spectre/Meltdown hardware level patched intels are being sold and then go for that or AMD Zen+/Zen2.

 

[jboydgolfer]

tell me about it. them ram prices are KILLING me. i bought 16Gb's of DDR3 for 80$ @ microcenter (admittedly a long time ago) , but $150+ for 16Gb's is a kick in the pouch

 

[Tatty_Two]

10 - 15% maybe clock for clock?, not sure if it's worth the price when including a motherboard purchase too unless you get a good deal in your sale also, but also look what extra features the new platform will give you over your old.

 

[FerK]

I'd wait until you Spectre/Meltdown hardware level patched intels are being sold and then go for that or AMD Zen+/Zen2.

So... Next gen right? Meaning end of this year/start of 2019 for... Cannonlake? My problem with Ryzen it's the gaming performance, although I don't think I'm too affected in the short-mid term at least (as I said, I'm not looking for more than 60 fps). Hopefully they improve in Zen+/Zen2.

tell me about it. them ram prices are KILLING me. i bought 16Gb's of DDR3 for 80$ @ microcenter (admittedly a long time ago) , but $150+ for 16Gb's is a kick in the pouch

And seems like RAM speed does actually have a big impact in games, at least for Ryzen. 2133 DDR4 are cheaper but the performance loss is probably not worth it.

10 - 15% maybe clock for clock?, not sure if it's worth the price when including a motherboard purchase too unless you get a good deal in your sale also, but also look what extra features the new platform will give you over your old.

He would sell me his current motherboard aswell (Gigabyte z87 ud3h). I don't know about the price, he wanted to give it for free to me at first, I said no because although we're friends, I think he should get some money for it (what would be a fair price for both components for 'non-friends'? I'm actually not sure).

 

[cucker tarlson]

I went 3570K 4.7GHz to 4790K 4.4GHz, which is about the same improvement as 2500K 4.4GHz to 4770K 4.2GHz, and it did alleviete all CPU bottlenecks in games that I was experiencing. At that time I was running a 144Hz screen so I really needed it. If you're experiencing GPU usage drops that's be a sweet deal cause it won't cost you much. Although I have to say when I got myself a GTX 1080, that same 4790K was starting to become a bottleneck as well in CPU intensive games so I has to upgrade again, thankfully I got a nice deal on 5775c wiythout having to change the mobo and ram. So if you're looking to upgrade that 1060 to sth faster and get a 144hz display then that 4770K will struggle at some point. If you're staying wth 1060 at 60 fps, 4770K is a good upgrade altough a 4790K would be better since it clocks ~500MHz higher.

Frankly now that I think about it, I'd rather wait for B360 mobos to pair with a new 8400, it's faster than both 4770K and 4790K (check the 1600 vs 8400 review)

https://www.purepc.pl/procesory/tes...d_ryzen_5_1600_wojna_szesciu_rdzeni?page=0,38

 

[FerK]

I went 3570K 4.7GHz to 4790K 4.4GHz, which is about the same improvement as 2500K 4.4GHz to 4770K 4.2GHz, and it did alleviete all CPU bottlenecks in games that I was experiencing. At that time I was running a 144Hz screen so I really needed it. If you're experiencing GPU usage drops that's be a sweet deal cause it won't cost you much. Although I have to say when I got myself a GTX 1080, that same 4790K was starting to become a bottleneck as well in CPU intensive games so I has to upgrade again, thankfully I got a nice deal on 5775c wiythout having to change the mobo and ram. So if you're looking to upgrade that 1060 to sth faster and get a 144hz display then that 4770K will struggle at some point. If you're staying wth 1060 at 60 fps, 4770K is a good upgrade altough a 4790K would be better since it clocks ~500MHz higher.

Frankly now that I think about it, I'd rather wait for B360 mobos to pair with a new 8400, it's faster than both 4770K and 4790K (check the 1600 vs 8400 review)

https://www.purepc.pl/procesory/tes...d_ryzen_5_1600_wojna_szesciu_rdzeni?page=0,38

Depending on the game. I was this morning playing some Kingdom Come Deliverance (high settings) and, although I only played for 15 minutes, it was actually the GPU the one at 95-99% of usage while the CPU was at about 60-70%. PUBG is the opposite, GPU at 40-50% and CPU 100% at times (with the frame drop when I reach such usage).

I do not intend of changing my GPU anytime soon (although I said the same thing with my last GPU and I ended up changing it in less than two years), and I won't change my screens unless they both break and even then I'm not interested in 144hz.

 

[cucker tarlson]

Then you need more threadz dude. If your GPU us age is as low as 40-50%, then even 4770K might not fix it. Like I said, 8400 is a heck of a gaming CPU even though it's locked. I am pretty shocked that 2500K completely gives up when pushing a 1060, I had one and it was doing fine with a 980. But that was at 5GHz and most importantly 2133MHz RAM, here's another bottleneck you might wanna do something about.

 

[FerK]

Then you need more threadz dude. If your GPU us age is as low as 40-50%, then even 4770K might not fix it. Like I said, 8400 is a heck of a gaming CPU even though it's locked. I am pretty shocked that 2500K completely gives up when pushing a 1060, I had one and it was doing fine with a 980. But that was at 5GHz and most importantly 2133MHz RAM, here's another bottleneck you might wanna do something about.

Well PUBG really isn't the epitome of optimization, I have all set at very low so that's probably why the GPU is only 40-50% usage. I don't play that many games, another one in which my GPU reached 100% usage was Total War Warhammer, for example. I don't think the 2500k is performing that bad to be honest, but sometimes I regret not having picked up a 2600k instead.

 

[FreedomEclipse]

Well PUBG really isn't the epitome of optimization, I have all set at very low so that's probably why the GPU is only 40-50% usage. I don't play that many games, another one in which my GPU reached 100% usage was Total War Warhammer, for example. I don't think the 2500k is performing that bad to be honest, but sometimes I regret not having picked up a 2600k instead.

2600K wouldn't of made any difference.

Hyper threading didn't do a whole lot for gaming back then and this is probably still the case.

I had a 2500k@4.9ghz and i was ripping through every game out there

 

[cucker tarlson]

2600K wouldn't of made any difference.

Hyper threading didn't do a whole lot for gaming back then and this is probably still the case.

I had a 2500k@4.9ghz and i was ripping through every game out there

It does a lot now.

 

[The_DriverX]

As said by a least one other person, you probably just want to hold out till the next gen CPUs, which will have the security issues fixed.

 

[Space Lynx]

As said by a least one other person, you probably just want to hold out till the next gen CPUs, which will have the security issues fixed.

This is what I am doing. Zen 2 and Ice Lake Intel 8 core 16 thread battle is going to be some beautiful war to watch towards the end of the year. Be patient lads. Zen Refresh in April prob not noteworthy. If 2080 Ti whomps on Vega 2... then I probably will go Ice Lake, but if Vega 2 can stand toe to toe... I'm going all AMD just for nostalgia's sake.

 

[Eric3988]

Gotta echo the other users here and say hold off until the Spectre/Meltdown issues are resolved. Why buy a product you know is vulnerable?

 

[eidairaman1]

Wait till After Ryzen+ Hits shelves and has been reviewed for 4-6 months, then decide on an upgrade path.

 

[kn00tcn]

depending on the price (particularly offset by selling sandy), the haswell sounds like a good idea, gain hyperthreading & clockspeed, destroy ME off it since that's the last gen you can do it ('fully')

i dont think ryzen1 dips below 60, but not sure about some of the cpu heavy games, i have definitely been staring at many charts for months making sure averages or whatever sites/youtubes show do not dip below 60, it seems ryzen below 3.4ghz (aka all core load of 1600 & 1700) get awfully close to 60 in far cry primal bench, but a simple overclock to 3.6ghz minimum improves it

I'd wait until you Spectre/Meltdown hardware level patched intels are being sold and then go for that or AMD Zen+/Zen2.

As said by a least one other person, you probably just want to hold out till the next gen CPUs, which will have the security issues fixed.

Gotta echo the other users here and say hold off until the Spectre/Meltdown issues are resolved. Why buy a product you know is vulnerable?

so you all are saying... dont upgrade, stay on sandy unprotected with poor performance while waiting for an upgrade next year

also nobody has proven that the very next gen is going to be fixed, it might even take a few years as new methods come out, speculative execution is an entire abstract concept not some individual instruction set...

the recent slide i saw from amd today said zen2 is 'design complete', really? were they dealing with mitigations over the past half year or do we have to wait for zen2+?

 

[FerK]

depending on the price (particularly offset by selling sandy), the haswell sounds like a good idea, gain hyperthreading & clockspeed, destroy ME off it since that's the last gen you can do it ('fully')

i dont think ryzen1 dips below 60, but not sure about some of the cpu heavy games, i have definitely been staring at many charts for months making sure averages or whatever sites/youtubes show do not dip below 60, it seems ryzen below 3.4ghz (aka all core load of 1600 & 1700) get awfully close to 60 in far cry primal bench, but a simple overclock to 3.6ghz minimum improves it




so you all are saying... dont upgrade, stay on sandy unprotected with poor performance while waiting for an upgrade next year

also nobody has proven that the very next gen is going to be fixed, it might even take a few years as new methods come out, speculative execution is an entire abstract concept not some individual instruction set...

the recent slide i saw from amd today said zen2 is 'design complete', really? were they dealing with mitigations over the past half year or do we have to wait for zen2+?

Destroy ME?

About Ryzen, I've been close to get a R5 1600 several times in the past but I wasn't totally sure about the improvement. As I said the low 0,1% and 1% should be way better and that suits my usage, but sometimes I saw the difference with Intel in some other games/benchmarks and didn't pull the trigger. Zen+ with a litography change may achieve a higher clock and the difference would reduce, but I don't think it's going to be a big improvement. And Zen2 means 2020, I've seen it's scheduled for 2019, and most of the times they can't release them on time and are delayed. I'm also not a fan of day1 purchases, I try to wait a few months to see if there is important bugs and how it performs. My 2500k would be 9 years old in 2020 (if it doesn't break), I mean I can put up with a not so great performance but I'm going to struggle a bit I guess.

____________________________

For the users that replied me to wait until Spectre and Meltdown are resolved, in which way this affects me as a consumer? I thought I saw a graph and the performance difference for games was negligible with some patch, it's such a big security threat for regular users?

 

[Space Lynx]

Destroy ME?

About Ryzen, I've been close to get a R5 1600 several times in the past but I wasn't totally sure about the improvement. As I said the low 0,1% and 1% should be way better and that suits my usage, but sometimes I saw the difference with Intel in some other games/benchmarks and didn't pull the trigger. Zen+ with a litography change may achieve a higher clock and the difference would reduce, but I don't think it's going to be a big improvement. And Zen2 means 2020, I've seen it's scheduled for 2019, and most of the times they can't release them on time and are delayed. I'm also not a fan of day1 purchases, I try to wait a few months to see if there is important bugs and how it performs. My 2500k would be 9 years old in 2020 (if it doesn't break), I mean I can put up with a not so great performance but I'm going to struggle a bit I guess.

____________________________

For the users that replied me to wait until Spectre and Meltdown are resolved, in which way this affects me as a consumer? I thought I saw a graph and the performance difference for games was negligible with some patch, it's such a big security threat for regular users?

If you live in the United States, the i7-8700k is $329 free ship no tax at Monoprice (on ebay), and then Newegg has a MSI Z370 SLI PLUS motherboard on sale for $99 free ship no tax. Honestly, it is the best bang for the buck, re-use your old case, PSU, and heatsink (assuming its better than stock cooler), and yeah, RAM is a little pricey, but you can get by with 8GB if you want to budget it out for now. Honestly, it doesn't matter. I actually just ordered all of that right now... the high end MOBO being on sale for $99 is what finally sold me.

I Spectre and Meltdown I think affect Virtual Machines mostly, which I don't even use, and your right most benches show negligible performance in gaming.

 

[eidairaman1]

Destroy ME?

About Ryzen, I've been close to get a R5 1600 several times in the past but I wasn't totally sure about the improvement. As I said the low 0,1% and 1% should be way better and that suits my usage, but sometimes I saw the difference with Intel in some other games/benchmarks and didn't pull the trigger. Zen+ with a litography change may achieve a higher clock and the difference would reduce, but I don't think it's going to be a big improvement. And Zen2 means 2020, I've seen it's scheduled for 2019, and most of the times they can't release them on time and are delayed. I'm also not a fan of day1 purchases, I try to wait a few months to see if there is important bugs and how it performs. My 2500k would be 9 years old in 2020 (if it doesn't break), I mean I can put up with a not so great performance but I'm going to struggle a bit I guess.

____________________________

For the users that replied me to wait until Spectre and Meltdown are resolved, in which way this affects me as a consumer? I thought I saw a graph and the performance difference for games was negligible with some patch, it's such a big security threat for regular users?

You came here asking for suggestions.
He was giving you a suggestion. On normal users it can allow Data compromise-aka ID theft, loss of bank funds, Taxes. The flaw affects cpus old and new.

March-April Ryzen+ is due out.

Fyi Ryzen was a major leap for AMD. It closed the performance gap and caused Intel to panic to release "8th Gen core i" also it helped lower costs across the board so it was a win win for all consumers no matter the camp. Ryzen+ is a refinement so lower power used, rework/tweaks of innards, bump in clock speeds, better yields vs first gen. Those who buy a 370/350/320 board then buy Ryzen+ can be sent a Kit to update the boards. Agesa Updates to 1st Gen Ryzen have came a long way too. 1600/1700s are popular chips to go with for price/performance.

Right Now Wait for Ryzen+ then decide. Ryzen+ prices will take the place of 1st gen Ryzen thus lowering costs, so you can buy a 1600 for considerably less than now or go for a Ryzen+

AM4 opens up alot of configuration possibilities which is the key to the platform. Think of Super Socket 7 or Socket A then.

 

[FerK]

You came here asking for suggestions.
He was giving you a suggestion. On normal users it can allow Data compromise-aka ID theft, loss of bank funds, Taxes. The flaw affects cpus old and new.

March-April Ryzen+ is due out.

Fyi Ryzen was a major leap for AMD. It closed the performance gap and caused Intel to panic to release "8th Gen core i" also it helped lower costs across the board so it was a win win for all consumers no matter the camp. Ryzen+ is a refinement so lower power used, rework/tweaks of innards, bump in clock speeds, better yields vs first gen. Those who buy a 370/350/320 board then buy Ryzen+ can be sent a Kit to update the boards. Agesa Updates to 1st Gen Ryzen have came a long way too. 1600/1700s are popular chips to go with for price/performance.

Right Now Wait for Ryzen+ then decide. Ryzen+ prices will take the place of 1st gen Ryzen thus lowering costs, so you can buy a 1600 for considerably less than now or go for a Ryzen+

AM4 opens up alot of configuration possibilities which is the key to the platform. Think of Super Socket 7 or Socket A then.

And I appreciate the suggestions, I just didn't know how important the whole Spectre/Meltdown vulnerabilities were to me. Thanks for your answer by the way, I'll wait and see what Zen+ has to offer and then decide. The current Ryzen prices are not that bad, a 1600 is about 180€, down from 216€ the last time I considered buying. However the overall price of all components is higher now because the RAM keeps ramping up its prices, that's a concern.

 

[Space Lynx]

You came here asking for suggestions.
He was giving you a suggestion. On normal users it can allow Data compromise-aka ID theft, loss of bank funds, Taxes. The flaw affects cpus old and new.

March-April Ryzen+ is due out.

Fyi Ryzen was a major leap for AMD. It closed the performance gap and caused Intel to panic to release "8th Gen core i" also it helped lower costs across the board so it was a win win for all consumers no matter the camp. Ryzen+ is a refinement so lower power used, rework/tweaks of innards, bump in clock speeds, better yields vs first gen. Those who buy a 370/350/320 board then buy Ryzen+ can be sent a Kit to update the boards. Agesa Updates to 1st Gen Ryzen have came a long way too. 1600/1700s are popular chips to go with for price/performance.

Right Now Wait for Ryzen+ then decide. Ryzen+ prices will take the place of 1st gen Ryzen thus lowering costs, so you can buy a 1600 for considerably less than now or go for a Ryzen+

AM4 opens up alot of configuration possibilities which is the key to the platform. Think of Super Socket 7 or Socket A then.

Ryzen is still 10 fps behind the 8700k in Min Fps tests across the entire range of games. Also, Ryzen still has some issues with older games. Unless Ryzen+ can fix the min FPS issue, I don't care if they beat 8700k in max FPS at all, but I doubt Ryzen+ even pulls that off.

I am hoping Ryzen 2 and Vega 2 can go toe to toe with the competition, if so I am going all AMD then. But until then, AMD still has to prove them self to me. Min FPS is very important to me.

 

[thebluebumblebee]

Most likely this would cost you €100. (assuming your friend would not allow you to pay more than €200 and you can sell the 2500K for €100) No brainer. Do it.

 

[eidairaman1]

And I appreciate the suggestions, I just didn't know how important the whole Spectre/Meltdown vulnerabilities were to me. Thanks for your answer by the way, I'll wait and see what Zen+ has to offer and then decide. The current Ryzen prices are not that bad, a 1600 is about 180€, down from 216€ the last time I considered buying. However the overall price of all components is higher now because the RAM keeps ramping up its prices, that's a concern.

I would look for lower cost ram from Adata, Mushkin, crucial and start off with a set and then later get what you really want and sell off the spare kit.

 

[Space Lynx]

Most likely this would cost you €100. (assuming your friend would not allow you to pay more than €200 and you can sell the 2500K for €100) No brainer. Do it.

I never even thought about selling my old rig parts. Hmm, good idea. I might put my 2500k/mobo/ram up for sale on TPU here in a few weeks. Won't get much, but every little bit to help offset the cost helps, main reason I did my build this month instead of waiting is because Republicans are dead set to require an online tax for every business before the year is out. Probably won't go into effect until such and such date, but I don't care. Such big items are pricey when it comes to tax, so I bit the bullet and decided to build now. I got lucky on a great deal for RAM thankfully, $340 for 32GB(8x4GB) 3200 14-14-14-31 ram. Ram is a little pricey sure, but honestly for those specs, and how much of a long term investment this is, I can't complain.

 

[FerK]

Most likely this would cost you €100. (assuming your friend would not allow you to pay more than €200 and you can sell the 2500K for €100) No brainer. Do it.

I've seen 2500k go for 60-65€ in a reputable used parts website here, the 1155 motherboards have usually some demand. It was only an estimation anyway.

I would look for lower cost ram from Adata, Mushkin, crucial and start off with a set and then later get what you really want and sell off the spare kit.

After reading this I went for the lowest pricing store I know (although customer service is not so good) and these are the cheapest 16GB kit available. However for €20 more there is this other kit. I know Ryzen benefits from higher frequencies so I think it would be worth it without actually needing an upgrade in the future although RAM compatibility may be an issue (but I think this has been mostly resolved via AGESA updates). They are still expensive, price evolution from other kit.