So the new RTX cards have been released with reviews...

[king of swag187]

A 1080 ti can be found as low as $500 on ebay while offering 5-10% worse performance than a 2080. A 1070 can be found easily for under $250. 1080s for $400-350. Its up to you guys to decide the value, from my perspective, it'll get a lot better once games actually start to support physx DLSS and NVIDIA starts optimizing mainly for Turing

 

[yotano211]

On reddit hardwareswap, there are some 1080ti for around 480-500.

 

[bug]

Oh boy, can't wait to be yet again branded as NVIDIA hater and AMD fanboy for just being sensible and not falling for the Ai marketing bullshit... XD

Wth is sensible about "I don't like how ray tracing looks like" and "DLSS can't be good because I don't think it can"?
You're either just a party pooper or someone who think they know better than anyone else.

Disregard RTX, DLSS and mesh shading if you want and you're left with a card that's twice as fast as what the competition has. That has literally never happened before. And yet here you are, complaining.

Pascal didn't have these features to bother and you still weren't satisfied: https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/...80-ti-and-titan-xp.232740/page-5#post-3645491

 

[RejZoR]

Pascal didn't cost frigging 1200€ lol. Stop being an idiot. RTX in Metro looks weird whether you're willing to admit it or not, RTX is non existent in games as an actually available feature and so is DLSS. And if you can't look past DLSS's marketing mumbo jumbo about Ai and deep learning being just a HW accelerated upscaler, then we really can't discuss much more here. Also, you must be one hell of a NVDIA fanboy to so proudly brag how graphic card is TWICE AS FAST as competitor card. Gee, really? No shit when competition isn't really bothering to challenge it because they don't find it financially feasible. That's not inability to produce products, it's smart planning than tossing tons of cash at product with minimal returns. That's just smart business, again, whether you like it or not.

As for that post throwing in my face, I have GTX 1080Ti because GTX 980 was acting up and I had to replace it and Vega cards were nowhere to be seen at that specific time and I wasn't willing to be without graphic card for months.

 

[bug]

Oh boy, can't wait to be yet again branded as NVIDIA hater and AMD fanboy for just being sensible and not falling for the Ai marketing bullshit... XD

Pascal didn't cost frigging 1200€ lol. Stop being an idiot. RTX in Metro looks weird whether you're willing to admit it or not, RTX is non existent in games as an actually available feature and so is DLSS. And if you can't look past DLSS's marketing mumbo jumbo about Ai and deep learning being just a HW accelerated upscaler, then we really can't discuss much more here. Also, you must be one hell of a NVDIA fanboy to so proudly brag how graphic card is TWICE AS FAST as competitor card. Gee, really? No shit when competition isn't really bothering to challenge it because they don't find it financially feasible. That's not inability to produce products, it's smart planning than tossing tons of cash at product with minimal returns. That's just smart business, again, whether you like it or not.

As for that post throwing in my face, I have GTX 1080Ti because GTX 980 was acting up and I had to replace it and Vega cards were nowhere to be seen at that specific time and I wasn't willing to be without graphic card for months.

Keep'em coming, I got my popcorn.

 

[phill]

This thread has definitely gone to crap

I've made my choice and been stupid so I'll put a post up tomorrow and see what that turns in to!! I do love these AMD v Nvidia rants and wars between people.. It does make me laugh

 

[RejZoR]

Keep'em coming, I got my popcorn.

Your point being? I guess you clearly don't understand the meaning of "Don't fight battles you can't win". Since we're talking companies here, it's battles that are financially feasible. Tossing billions into development of something just to be a dick measuring match for few months is idiotic if you don't have a long term financial plan and rock solid expectations for it to return. And that's what AMD is doing. If that makes me an AMD fanboy, then so fucking be it. At least I understand the business side of things unlike you apparently. And you can shove that popcorn somewhere if you like.

 

[FireFox]

I do love these AMD v Nvidia rants and wars between people..

Red Vs Green they will never agree.

 

[phill]

I'm not Redist or Greenist, I like them both!! Same goes for AMD and Intel....

 

[rtwjunkie]

t'll get a lot better once games actually start to support physx DLSS and NVIDIA starts optimizing mainly for Turing

They will never optimize “mainly for Turing”. There are too many devs out there who are not going to adopt ray tracing before 10 years are up. And let’s not look at what is a very healthy part of the PC gaming market: Indies. Nvidia will have to keep providing drivers for non Ray-gun features.

 

[lexluthermiester]

In all honesty, it looks terrible.

I think it looks great. Everyone has their preferences though. It's all good.

Plus, that demo is made specifically to show how light scattering influences the scene. It's when you add a second (possibly moving) light source that ray tracing starts to distance itself from precomputed maps.

You beat me to that point. And it's where realtime raytracing will shine.

They will never optimize “mainly for Turing”. There are too many devs out there who are not going to adopt ray tracing before 10 years are up. And let’s not look at what is a very healthy part of the PC gaming market: Indies. Nvidia will have to keep providing drivers for non Ray-gun features.

Why? From everything published so far, NVidia is making the RTX line very attractive for RTRT(Real Time Ray Tracing). Most of the dev tools are almost literal code "plug-ins" and as many of the raytracing algorithms compatible with RTX are open source, making a game that utilizes RTRT easy and cost effective. Even Indie devs will likely take a look and hop right onboard. Standard lighting methods are ultimately going to become antiquated.

 

[RejZoR]

It's funny how everyone just automatically assumes "I must hate NVIDIA" for not praising it to death on all ends day after day and because I commented on its features for being "less" than what they advertise them to be to the stupid masses (sorry, but that just is the case). Why am I considered a "hater" for explaining tech basics on DLSS for not needing any of the "Ai" and "deep learning" mumbo jumbo to achieve 90% similar end result generically? There is no way anyone could make an "Ai" that can predict non existent pixels out of thin air. It's always interpolation, an algorithm. Calling adjusted presets an "Ai" is just foolish. And that's basically what they are doing. They could just as well give 10 sliders to users to play with and achieve same results by hand without having to wait for driver updates and their "deep learning" results. Plus, one could tweak it to personal taste, potentially creating different results than NVIDIA deems "correct".

 

[bug]

This thread has definitely gone to crap

I've made my choice and been stupid so I'll put a post up tomorrow and see what that turns in to!! I do love these AMD v Nvidia rants and wars between people.. It does make me laugh

Well, if you have time to spare try digging through Rejzor's posts and find something that's not him unhappy with something

It's funny how everyone just automatically assumes "I must hate NVIDIA" for not praising it to death on all ends day after day and because I commented on its features for being "less" than what they advertise them to be to the stupid masses (sorry, but that just is the case).

Because marketing does that to any new feature. Highlighting that feature X is oversold is as useless as possible.

Why am I considered a "hater" for explaining tech basics on DLSS for not needing any of the "Ai" and "deep learning" mumbo jumbo to achieve 90% similar end result generically? There is no way anyone could make an "Ai" that can predict non existent pixels out of thin air. It's always interpolation, an algorithm. Calling adjusted presets an "Ai" is just foolish. And that's basically what they are doing. They could just as well give 10 sliders to users to play with and achieve same results by hand without having to wait for driver updates and their "deep learning" results. Plus, one could tweak it to personal taste, potentially creating different results than NVIDIA deems "correct".

Probably because until you build DLSS without AI, nobody believes you're smarter than an entire department that does this for a living?

 

[Vayra86]

Your point being? I guess you clearly don't understand the meaning of "Don't fight battles you can't win". Since we're talking companies here, it's battles that are financially feasible. Tossing billions into development of something just to be a dick measuring match for few months is idiotic if you don't have a long term financial plan and rock solid expectations for it to return. And that's what AMD is doing. If that makes me an AMD fanboy, then so fucking be it. At least I understand the business side of things unlike you apparently. And you can shove that popcorn somewhere if you like.

AMD was fighting that battle though, and they went on fighting with weaponry in hand that was clearly no longer sufficient. It was clear as day since Hawaii that GCN was no longer able to keep up, but we got:
- Fury X, wíth HBM and barely able to turn a profit as a top end product. (Bad business in a nutshell, in every possible way)
- A follow up WITH HBM and completely unable to turn a profit as a top end product. Vast majority sold not as gaming cards but for different markets because the product simply wasn't viable elsewhere.

They did toss billions into development of and also millions into other things that completely failed and can be considered money down the drain. Mantle, for example. GPU never managed to be profitable for them. Ever.

You understand the business side of things after the fact, just like AMD. That means you don't understand the business side of it. If you and/or AMD did they would have stopped years ago already.

 

[bug]

@Vayra86 GPUs kept AMD afloat during their Bulldozer days
Which makes me weep even more looking at their current state.

 

[Vya Domus]

- A follow up WITH HBM and completely unable to turn a profit as a top end product. .

Nothing but a myth, Vega sold well and definitely made AMD a good profit. And it looks like it will keep doing so, not in the hands of gamers but elsewhere. To consider Vega a failed product is nothing more than a gamer's frustration.

 

[Vayra86]

Nothing but a myth, Vega sold well and definitely made AMD a good profit. And it looks like it will keep doing so, not in the hands of gamers but elsewhere.

Vega didn't sell in its Vega 56/64 iterations for consumer. They were barely even available. AMD sold them as Frontier or higher priced versions almost exclusively. And if you look for consumer Vega today they are (almost) all way too expensive to take seriously. Never mind that weird FreeSync deal they offered at launch... that deal nobody managed to get their hands on.

Everything points to a product that completely failed to live up to expectations but was too expensive to produce to price it accordingly.

 

[phill]

Well I'm going to have to wait another 5 hours before I can get to go home and play with my new toy but they have arrived and I'm eager to get them out and working!! A little bummed I missed the models (I thought it was the SC2 not the SC2 Black Edition but meh.. It's a 1080 Ti at the end of the day!!) but judging by reviews and looking for differences online, there's none worth mentioning and for the extra cost as well it definitely wasn't worth the extra for me.. ( SC2 - Not sure it's the black edition... and FTW3 ) the difference in performance and the difference in cost was massive, £650 v £800.. So no, definitely not worth it for me even more so where they are going to end up as well....

From what I've read, Pascal is the limit for cards so whatever it boosts too, whatever it benchmarks and whatever else I can think of, it'll be a massive step up from a GTX 1070 and most definitely a RX480

 

[bug]

Nothing but a myth, Vega sold well and definitely made AMD a good profit. And it looks like it will keep doing so, not in the hands of gamers but elsewhere. To consider Vega a failed product is nothing more than a gamer's frustration.

You don't know that, because AMD doesn't report their CPU and GPU income figures separately. Vayra86 doesn't know either, but since AMD doesn't seem to be scrambling to keep it in stock, he's got a better chance of being right. Still, this is just me guessing.
The only thing we know is for the time being there are a lot of Nvidia GPUs AMD doesn't have an answer to. Money coming from Zen may/should help fix this, but by the looks of it, not for another year

 

[Vya Domus]

Vega didn't sell in its Vega 56/64 iterations for consumer. They were barely even available.

They did, the consumers were miners and they were barely available because they were all being bought. Granted I don't think they sold millions but still, it has been only recently that you could actually find them at decent prices, or just find them. Someone, somewhere bought them. You're not going to argue with me that AMD just didn't make any cards for months and that's why you couldn't find one, are you ?

You want to call Vega 64 and 56 failures from your gamer perspective ? Fine, go ahead AMD doesn't care because Vega did in fact made them some more cash. And that's all they care about currently.

 

[BarbaricSoul]

I'm sorry, but I'll never pay that kind of money for a video card. It killed me when I paid $750 for my 780ti. And now prices are even higher? In fact, $500 higher for the same level of card. I work too hard for my money.

 

[phill]

This card was less than the 780 Ti you've bought so for the fact it wasn't that much more than my GTX 1070, I think it's going to be a bargain, especially for how long I'll be using it I'm sure when I hand it over to my girl friend or my daughter, it'll last them years

 

[BarbaricSoul]

This card was less than the 780 Ti you've bought so for the fact it wasn't that much more than my GTX 1070, I think it's going to be a bargain, especially for how long I'll be using it I'm sure when I hand it over to my girl friend or my daughter, it'll last them years

I was referring to RTX prices

 

[Vayra86]

They did, the consumers were miners and they were barely available because they were all being bought. Granted I don't think they sold millions but still, it has been only recently that you could actually find them at decent prices, or find them at all. Someone, somewhere bought them, you're not going to argue with me that AMD just didn't make any cards for months are you ?

You want to call Vega 64 and 56 failures from your gamer perspective ? Fine, go ahead AMD doesn't care because Vega did in fact made them some more cash.

I am going to argue that if you don't mind...

https://www.extremetech.com/computing/256234-custom-vega-boards-reportedly-delayed-technical-issues
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-vega-package-problem,35281.html
https://www.techpowerup.com/236499/...s-to-persist-at-least-until-october-digitimes
https://techreport.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=120097

Now, with DRAM and NAND we have flooding, viruses and workers stealing technology and whatnot. AMD has 'technical problems', 'mining', no publicly available numbers about actual sales per market segment/product line, and somehow you think this is all true, when its a fact that Vega is a large GPU with a costly production process and using memory that was and is still in high demand, but needed to sell at a price point far below what was intended. Now tell me what's likely: that they sell those Vega's at reduced price points or at inflated ones with a nice looking shroud to make up for it?

You can believe what you want to believe... 'for the gamers!'

 

[Vya Domus]

when its a fact that Vega is a large GPU with a costly production process and using memory that was and is still in high demand.

Never said they made huge profits but definitely made some. You think their claim that GPU and computing segment revenue went up by 60% was a lie ? And that all of that was Polaris and Ryzen ? You can believe what you want as well.