MSI Betrays AMD's Socket AM4 Longevity Promise: No Zen2 for 300-series?

rtwjunkie · Apr 16, 2019

freeagent said:
I know of a guy who tried to clean his msi 1070 with a can of air, and one of the fan blades broke off.

Know of a guy. Way to cite real statistics there. :rolleyes:

Guess what, any fan blade can do that, and have done it. And it serves the dumbass right. Anybody that is going to do that knows GPU fans are delicate and makes sure the blade doesn’t move while spraying through them.

Their GPU quality, and again, not a matter for this thread, since it is about motherboards, is top-notch.

Vario · Apr 16, 2019

"Greedy motherboard vendors such as MSI want you to buy a new motherboard every two generations of processor for no sound reason at all. "

Reason: They need to make money to keep their shareholders happy.

Board obselecence is not a big deal. Ever check the used prices of mint motherboards with box and manual? You can sell the board for the same price you paid, less the ebay fee. In some cases, you can sell it for more. For example, I bought a AsRock Z77E-ITX for $150 from Amazon, used it for a few years, and sold it 3 years later for $220 on eBay. I bought a Z77X-UD3H for $160 from Microcenter, used it for 6 years, sold it for $140 on eBay. Keep the box, manuals, stickers, antistatic bag, and media. If you take good care of it, it will be worth a lot to someone with a dead obsoleted system that needs a replacement board.

Same goes for CPUs as well, I bought the 3770K for $220 from Microcenter... Sold it for $200 on eBay 5 years later.

Minus Infinity · Apr 16, 2019

So glad I've never purchased one of their MB's. Lost any potential customer permanently. Even if they reverse the decision the fact it would have been done under protest still makes them scum.

Vario · Apr 16, 2019

Sooner or later the socket will be a dead one anyway with DDR5 on the horizon. To be honest, until there is an official MSI statement, I think it's bullshit. Either way, delayed socket obsolence is not really a selling point for me. I plan to run this i5 8600K until it no longer runs the games I enjoy playing. That might be 2024. At that point, new computer build (new board, cpu, ram).

moproblems99 · Apr 16, 2019

RH92 said:
GPP was way to overblown so personally im not going to deprive myself from one of the best manufacturers because of such a story but yeah to each his own i guess ....

To each their own but my two Asus boards left me unimpressed any way. Granted that was in the Thuban days. But it didn't help.

Thorsthimble · Apr 16, 2019

Shame. I'm moving to a AM4 or sTR4 platform in a few weeks, depending on what I feel like spending at that time. If this really is the case, I'll be checking MSI off the list of possible mobo options. There's nothing I hate more than forced obsolescence, particularly when AMD designed this series of processors with forward compatibility specifically in mind.

JB_Gamer · Apr 16, 2019

ssdpro said:
"ASUS and Gigabyte just confirmed they are doing the same. RIP AMD."

Seriously... that is what it is like in Intel rumor comment sections. This is just wild speculation - calm down. "Betrays"?!??!!?

Where did You get that information from? As I only use Asus motherboard, but only have X470 and B450 myself, I out of curiosity checked up one model. This: https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/ROG-CROSSHAIR-VI-HERO/HelpDesk_BIOS/ as You can se has already received the bios for the next generation Ryzen CPUs.

Bruno_O · Apr 16, 2019

JB_Gamer said:
Where did You get that information from? As I only use Asus motherboard, but only have X470 and B450 myself, I out of curiosity checked up one model. This: https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/ROG-CROSSHAIR-VI-HERO/HelpDesk_BIOS/ as You can se has already received the bios for the next generation Ryzen CPUs.

Don't worry, it's fake news, my Prime X370-PRO has 2 BIOS updates for Ryzen 3 already.

Eskimonster · Apr 16, 2019

Surely im gonna Boykot

TechCat · Apr 16, 2019

So you wrote this story with no confirmation from MSI? We already know MB makers are running into capacity limits for the BIOS chips so that may be where the confusion has occurred. I get it, you hate AMD with a passion and could not pass up the chance to condemn them by comparing them to the recent and past 'criminal' practices of the likes of Sintel and nGreedia. Why are the green and blue fanbois so afraid of the little red team. AMD has made an amazing come-back and hit a number of firsts with limited capital yet you want them to fail, Why? This is Rumor, not fact, and the title needs to reflect that. I expect better from TechPowerUp.

Mussels · Apr 16, 2019

TechCat said:
So you wrote this story with no confirmation from MSI? We already know MB makers are running into capacity limits for the BIOS chips so that may be where the confusion has occurred. I get it, you hate AMD with a passion and could not pass up the chance to condemn them by comparing them to the recent and past 'criminal' practices of the likes of Sintel and nGreedia. Why are the green and blue fanbois so afraid of the little red team. AMD has made an amazing come-back and hit a number of firsts with limited capital yet you want them to fail, Why? This is Rumor, not fact, and the title needs to reflect that. I expect better from TechPowerUp.

How is something in writing from the company itself, rumour?

eidairaman1 · Apr 16, 2019

Retribution will result from their actions.

Man during Skt A they were pretty top end, now they are bargin bin crap.

freeagent · Apr 16, 2019

rtwjunkie said:
Know of a guy. Way to cite real statistics there. Guess what, any fan blade can do that, and have done it. And it serves the dumbass right. Anybody that is going to do that knows GPU fans are delicate and makes sure the blade doesn’t move while spraying through them.

Their GPU quality, and again, not a matter for this thread, since it is about motherboards, is top-notch.

Oh I'm sorry, I should have said a guy I work with, I didn't feel the need to elaborate further. Sorry I don't have any factual statistics for you, other than I haven't broken a gpu fan before. Regardless, it was still an MSI product. Glad you are enjoying yours :cool:

rtwjunkie · Apr 16, 2019

freeagent said:
Oh I'm sorry, I should have said a guy I work with, I didn't feel the need to elaborate further. Sorry I don't have any factual statistics for you,

Exactly. What you have is anecdotal evidence, which amounts to zippety squat. I know a guy whose alternator died on his Lexus too. See how silly that is in the face of very high customer satisfaction? It happens, and has nothing to do with branding.

EarthDog · Apr 16, 2019

Mussels said:
How is something in writing from the company itself, rumour?

The same way there was a letter from Asus, also in German iirc, that was proven wrong from reddit?

It's also tier 1 support... I wouldnt bet my life on them.

That said, its not the source that is bad per say, perhaps the all in tone of believing it/seemingly not questioning its validity, is what some may be hung up on. It could be true... it could not be. What's the scope? Some boards only?

This first line sure strikes a chord, no...?

btarunr said:
Greedy motherboard vendors such as MSI want you to buy a new motherboard every two generations of processor for no sound reason at all.

whether the word reportedly was used after or not, this line sure was all in calling them greedy.

Was MSI contacted for confirmation?

Edit: did AMD ever state which chipsets or just the socket for 2020 support?

champsilva · Apr 16, 2019

JB_Gamer said:
Where did You get that information from? As I only use Asus motherboard, but only have X470 and B450 myself, I out of curiosity checked up one model. This: https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/ROG-CROSSHAIR-VI-HERO/HelpDesk_BIOS/ as You can se has already received the bios for the next generation Ryzen CPUs.

Maybe upcoming is related to Ryzen Pro?

https://www.techradar.com/news/amd-...nce-mobile-ryzen-pro-mobile-processors-coming

Like those

jigar2speed · Apr 16, 2019

Much respect to Techpowerup, this is Journalism right there. No fear and straight forward reporting of what it is. Thank you.

Assimilator · Apr 16, 2019

Here's some more anecdotal fuel for the fire:

Back in the heady days of Core 2, MSI released a board called the P6N Diamond. It was a high-end board that was advertised as being compatible with the then-current Conroe quad-cores (Kentsfield) and, crucially, the upcoming Yorkfields. There was even a massive sticker on the box proclaiming this!

Well, I started off with a Q6600 in that board, and it was fine. Then the Yorkfields launched, the P6N Diamond BIOS/compatibility section on MSI's website got updated with those chips, and I got a great deal on a QX9650. With the latest BIOS flashed, I dropped in the new CPU and was ready for fun times... except I got the exact opposite.

I could not, for the life of me, get that board stable with the QX9650. Didn't matter whether it was stock or overclocked, sooner or later the system would simply hard-reset. I tried an E8400 (dual-core) and had the same problems. Around this time MSI started issuing a slew of beta BIOS updates for this board, but none of them resolved the instability, and there was a pretty long thread on MSI's forums with people who had the same issue.

The eventual consensus we users came to - after an MSI rep let slip a telling remark - was that the very bare minimum of CPU power circuitry had been implemented in the board's design, and that simply wasn't enough for 45nm Wolfdale/Yorkfield. MSI, of course, never bothered to officially address, let alone rectify the issue, and eventually they silently reverted the CPU support list for that board to only 65nm Conroe/Kentsfield: https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/support/P6N_Diamond#support-cpu

tl;dr MSI has cheaped out on power delivery on "high-end" boards before, if this story is correct it would absolutely not surprise me.

notb · Apr 16, 2019

Mats said:
It's not that simple.
Consumers would possibly be less likely to upgrade their Summit Ridge + 300 series board to an all new 2019 CPU + board because it would cost more when you need a new board.

Consumers have a particular budget for their hobby. They spend it one way or another. Companies want to get as much of this budget as they can.

If you can upgrade the CPU more often than the motherboard, AMD earns more and MSI earns less. This really is simple.

Mussels · Apr 16, 2019

and if you find out MSI are the only brand that doesnt let you upgrade, they get zero money from your future builds

R-T-B · Apr 16, 2019

londiste said:
I started to suspect the same after seeing Taichis had the same size of image. On the other hand, my own AM4 board has BIOS image a little over 8MB so it is not universal.

You had an 8MB chip then.

All that shows is that Ryzen can be implemented in 8MBs. 16 is a nonissue.

RH92 · Apr 16, 2019

jigar2speed said:
Much respect to Techpowerup, this is Journalism right there. No fear and straight forward reporting of what it is. Thank you.

Not sure you know what Journalism is !

Journalism is foremost verifying your information before publishing and im afraid this didn't happened here since we don't have any official statement from MSI . You are confusing Journalism with Sensationalism #clickbait !

Keullo-e · Apr 16, 2019

X470 Gaming Plus here so I guess no problems coming.

Tsukiyomi91 · Apr 16, 2019

inb4 Intel has been doing this for a long time & yet when this level of news broke out to AMD users, they get mad for no reason when Intel users like me be like "eh... at least newer board, chipset etc means I can fully take advantage of the new hardware & not worry about the board being the limiting factor." That aside, at least other vendors will/might push out a UEFI/firmware update for the current boards in preparation for Ryzen 3000.

Assimilator · Apr 16, 2019

https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/r...-older-300-series-due-to-bios-limitation.html

Shortly thereafter we've seen news-posts that MSI would be doing this purely out of pure greed etc. Such wording seems to be incorrect.

... earlier on it was indicated that a BIOS chip limitations could be a factor in whether your board can support 3000-series Ryzen processors or not, support for 3000-series chips may now come down to a question of something as simple as its 16MiByte flash storage on the (and all) 300 series. We know that the 400 series already anticipated this being able to store 32MiBytes. If that is the case, all motherboard manufacturers will drop Ryzen 3000 support on X370, B350 and A320 as it is simply incompatible.

TPU "news" staff, y'all should be extremely ashamed that Guru3D just did a better job than you.

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MSI Betrays AMD's Socket AM4 Longevity Promise: No Zen2 for 300-series?

rtwjunkie

PC Gaming Enthusiast

Vario

Minus Infinity

Vario

moproblems99

Thorsthimble

JB_Gamer

Bruno_O

Eskimonster

TechCat

New Member

Mussels

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eidairaman1

The Exiled Airman

freeagent

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rtwjunkie

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EarthDog

champsilva

jigar2speed

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notb

Mussels

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R-T-B

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