X570 and RAM configurations?

[wheresmycar]

a couple of questions with the X570 mobo:

1. On these newer boards, other than limiting myself to zero available dimm slots for future upgrades does it make any difference if I went with 4 sticks of RAM opposed to 2? If yes, what kind of performance inconsistencies should I expect? ....i'd like a nice spread of RGB across the 4 dimms (4x8GB) but if diminishing performance is likely, i'm more than happy with 2 sticks (2x16GB).

2. What frequency and CAS latency is best recommended for Ryzen 3600/3700X, or more of a sweet spot for gaming/video editing/photoshop/general. Any particular recommended make/model kits which are proven to run better for tighter timing controls or higher OC'd frequencies?

 

[HD64G]

Fresh from the tube oven

 

[Assimilator]

1. As with all CPUs the fewer sticks of RAM the better. Performance is not an issue, stability might be if you're overclocking. Just note that the 8GB sticks are far cheaper than the 16GB ones.

2. AMD recommends 3600MHz, after 3733MHz internal CPU memory dividers come into play which will make for lower performance, so don't go higher than that. CAS latency is always the lower, the better, regardless of CPU. Look for 3200MHz CL14 and 3600MHz CL16 - considering the 3733MHz "wall" though, 3200MHz is probably your best bet as it can likely be relatively easily be clocked up to 3600MHz (but if you do OC, remember point 1).

It's safest to go with what's one your motherboard's QVL list, but honestly the memory compatibility boogeyman seems to be dead with Zen 2, you should be able to just plug and play. As always though, read reviews of the kit you intend to buy - bonus if they test that kit using the same board you have.

 

[EarthDog]

2. AMD recommends 3600MHz, after 3733MHz internal CPU memory dividers come into play

This will vary by board. Some go 2:1 at 3733 and a few others even lower at 3600. I have a Biostar X570GT8 in hand that went 2:1 at 3600. All I needed to do was to set it to 1:1, but outside of that, it set it there.

 

[John Naylor]

More sticks = greater load on memory conrtroller. I my experience, sometimes CPU OCs that are stable w/ 2 sticks, are unstable with 4 sticks.

Recognize the risk associated with "saving slots" for upgrades. If you buy 2 sticks and then by 2 sticks a year later ...

a) You have no guarantee that the new sticks will "play well with others". If they don't work, it's your problem. The vendor / manufacturer may decide to take them back but they are under no obligation to do so. Warranty exists ONLY when all sticks were tested together at the factory and arriuved at your door in a single package.

b) Your chances of getting them to work together decrease as speed increases.... More likely to work w/ 2100 MHz sticks than 4200

c) the more things "the same", the better your chances of success ... manufacturer, model, speed, timings, OEM supplier.

d) When not matched, drop all sticks to the lowest speed / highest timings ... if a no go... lossen up a bit more.

e) Using the exact make and model is no guarantee. A frequently used example was w/ DDR3 - 2400. In the initial produt cycles, everyione was using Hynix modules. As production line tweaks occur over time, other suppliers may be able to produce more acceptable yields than they had in the past and the vendor may switch OEM suppliers. Populat products slected at this time were :

Mushkin Redline - DDR3-2400 CAS 10
Corsair Vengeance Pro - DDR3-2400 CAS 10
Corsair Dominator - DDR3-2400 CAS 10

At a certain point in time Corsair dropped Hynix on the VO line and switched to another module supplier ... they were still DDR3-2400 CAS 10. The difference was , before version 4.51 (Hynix) , Corsair's timings were 10-12-12-28 ... after they were 10-12-12-31. Mushkin remained at 10-12-12-28 and so did Vorsair's Dominator line. I tried to assists several users who had pairs before and after ver 4.51 w/o success ... even setting all 4 sticks to 101-12-12-31 and tweaking voltage a bit didn't help. Of the 3 instances addressing this issue, all worked fine mixing the 2 sticks of old Corsair Vengeance Pro with 2 sticks of new Redlines ... 2 of the 3 were able to maintain their old overclocks. in the 3rd had to drop 0.1 MHz on the CPU

 

[wheresmycar]

1. As with all CPUs the fewer sticks of RAM the better. Performance is not an issue, stability might be if you're overclocking. Just note that the 8GB sticks are far cheaper than the 16GB ones.

2. AMD recommends 3600MHz, after 3733MHz internal CPU memory dividers come into play which will make for lower performance, so don't go higher than that. CAS latency is always the lower, the better, regardless of CPU. Look for 3200MHz CL14 and 3600MHz CL16 - considering the 3733MHz "wall" though, 3200MHz is probably your best bet as it can likely be relatively easily be clocked up to 3600MHz (but if you do OC, remember point 1).

It's safest to go with what's one your motherboard's QVL list, but honestly the memory compatibility boogeyman seems to be dead with Zen 2, you should be able to just plug and play. As always though, read reviews of the kit you intend to buy - bonus if they test that kit using the same board you have.

1. thanks! definitely sticking with the 2x16 config.

2. Assuming I adopted the 3200Mhz/3000Mhz 15CL kits (as its cheaper) how much performance loss can I expect? Or would you highly encourage 3200Mhz 14CL / 3600Mhz 16CL for the 3700X. I don't intend on overclocking the CPU but do fancy pushing the RAM to the limits.

This will vary by board. Some go 2:1 at 3733 and a few others even lower at 3600. I have a Biostar X570GT8 in hand that went 2:1 at 3600. All I needed to do was to set it to 1:1, but outside of that, it set it there.

Apologies...what do you mean by 2:1/1:1. Are these BIOS configurations for tighter timings or faster frequencies? If yes, please provide a little more info as I'm planning on moving past the pre-configured XMP profiles for some manual tweaking.

 

[EarthDog]

It's the memory divider. Read a ryzen review or two. They should mention it. Tpu even has a scaling review.

I wouldnt bother tweaking memory past xmp... to me it's just a waste of time for negligible gains.

3200Mhz/3000Mhz 15CL kits (as its cheaper) how much performance loss can I expect?

hardly any.. read tpus ryzen.memory scaling article.

 

[wheresmycar]

More sticks = greater load on memory conrtroller. I my experience, sometimes CPU OCs that are stable w/ 2 sticks, are unstable with 4 sticks.

Recognize the risk associated with "saving slots" for upgrades. If you buy 2 sticks and then by 2 sticks a year later ...

a) You have no guarantee that the new sticks will "play well with others". If they don't work, it's your problem. The vendor / manufacturer may decide to take them back but they are under no obligation to do so. Warranty exists ONLY when all sticks were tested together at the factory and arriuved at your door in a single package.

b) Your chances of getting them to work together decrease as speed increases.... More likely to work w/ 2100 MHz sticks than 4200

c) the more things "the same", the better your chances of success ... manufacturer, model, speed, timings, OEM supplier.

d) When not matched, drop all sticks to the lowest speed / highest timings ... if a no go... lossen up a bit more.

e) Using the exact make and model is no guarantee. A frequently used example was w/ DDR3 - 2400. In the initial produt cycles, everyione was using Hynix modules. As production line tweaks occur over time, other suppliers may be able to produce more acceptable yields than they had in the past and the vendor may switch OEM suppliers. Populat products slected at this time were :

Mushkin Redline - DDR3-2400 CAS 10
Corsair Vengeance Pro - DDR3-2400 CAS 10
Corsair Dominator - DDR3-2400 CAS 10

At a certain point in time Corsair dropped Hynix on the VO line and switched to another module supplier ... they were still DDR3-2400 CAS 10. The difference was , before version 4.51 (Hynix) , Corsair's timings were 10-12-12-28 ... after they were 10-12-12-31. Mushkin remained at 10-12-12-28 and so did Vorsair's Dominator line. I tried to assists several users who had pairs before and after ver 4.51 w/o success ... even setting all 4 sticks to 101-12-12-31 and tweaking voltage a bit didn't help. Of the 3 instances addressing this issue, all worked fine mixing the 2 sticks of old Corsair Vengeance Pro with 2 sticks of new Redlines ... 2 of the 3 were able to maintain their old overclocks. in the 3rd had to drop 0.1 MHz on the CPU

thanks dude.

Will definitely stick with 2x16GB.

Sorry, I don't have much understanding of RAM configurations/specs. If I'm honest i've only recently started to look at overclocking RAM (besides XMP). I take it you have a more in-depth understanding of fine-tuning the configurations for best results. I'm a bit tight on budget and might end up sticking with 3000Mhz/3200Mhz 15CL/16CL. If this is the path chosen, would you recommend any particular make/model for DDR4 2X16GB. I'm hoping to pair up the 3700X with the MSI MPG X570 GAMING PLUS motherboard.

Also I haven't purchased any parts yet but hopefully towards the end of the month. May be a good time to grab 5700/XT partner card. Hence im open to any/all suggestions.

It's the memory divider. Read a ryzen review or two. They should mention it. Tpu even has a scaling review.

I wouldnt bother tweaking memory past xmp... to me it's just a waste of time for negligible gains.

hardly any.. read tpus ryzen.memory scaling article.

Sorry, could you link me up with the article. I'm kinda new on TPU and not entirely familiar with the tools or placements.

 

[jesdals]

On the Aorus Master I am running these settings

Did som testing and ended up with 16-18-18-18-39 settings on the above menue

My new Corsair 3600MHz is set to default

Infinity Fabric is set to 1800MHz

XMP and XMP High frequency support is enabled - even though it isnt shown correct in bios

Did give som omprovement all ower

For some un known reason the SPD info isnt shown

I am using this kit from Corsair CMK16GX4M2B3600C18

Performance vice it gave me 1 fps over my recent 32GB 3200MHz kit in Division 2 in 5760x1200 with all settings maxed out except Fog

 

[EarthDog]

Sorry, could you link me up with the article. I'm kinda new on TPU and not entirely familiar with the tools or placements.

sure...https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-zen-2-memory-performance-scaling-benchmark/


Note you can google "techpowerup ryzen memory scaling" and find it too. It's a front page article (hit home button at the site)....where all the reviews and news is found. Forums are a subset of the main page.

 

[wheresmycar]

sure...https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-zen-2-memory-performance-scaling-benchmark/


Note you can google "techpowerup ryzen memory scaling" and find it too. It's a front page article (hit home button at the site)....where all the reviews and news is found. Forums are a subset of the main page.

Thank you

 

[jesdals]

Tried the Ryzen Dram calculator, and got these settings with setting Vcore at 1.450 volt in bios https://www.techpowerup.com/download/ryzen-dram-calculator/

I am amazed by the possibilites by this chipset - AMD has done a great job and Gigabyte as well

 

[TheLostSwede]

This is with an $89 set of Patriot Viper Steel DDR4-3600 RAM, which runs fine at 3733 on my setup, with lower timings than the kit was sold as having.

I would say that the Ryzen 3000-series is quite memory friendly, much more so than their past products and even so compared to many Intel platforms.
As pointed out, past 3600MHz you might have to set the memory controller manually and you really want to run it at the same speed or near the same speed as the RAM, i.e. real clocks, not DDR mode, so for 3600MHz memory, that's 1800MHz for the memory controller.

There's really point getting some really exotic memory for Ryzen 3000, as beyond 3800MHz it's highly unlikely that you can run it at 1:1 with the memory controller and then you end up getting much higher latencies. I was over 80ns when I was running 1:2 with otherwise identical settings to above. It might not seem like a big difference, but it has quite a big impact on the performance on these CPUs.

 

[mstenholm]

Tried the Ryzen Dram calculator, and got these settings with setting Vcore at 1.450 volt in bios https://www.techpowerup.com/download/ryzen-dram-calculator/
View attachment 128579View attachment 128576
I am amazed by the possibilites by this chipset - AMD has done a great job and Gigabyte as well

From CAS 18 to 14. Not shabby.

 

[wheresmycar]

Tried the Ryzen Dram calculator, and got these settings with setting Vcore at 1.450 volt in bios https://www.techpowerup.com/download/ryzen-dram-calculator/
View attachment 128579View attachment 128576
I am amazed by the possibilites by this chipset - AMD has done a great job and Gigabyte as well

Does this application determine the best timings/clockspeeds automatically or does this require manual input?

I can't make sense of most of those screenshots (previous post too) but i'm kinda getting there.

This is with an $89 set of Patriot Viper Steel DDR4-3600 RAM, which runs fine at 3733 on my setup, with lower timings than the kit was sold as having.

I would say that the Ryzen 3000-series is quite memory friendly, much more so than their past products and even so compared to many Intel platforms.
As pointed out, past 3600MHz you might have to set the memory controller manually and you really want to run it at the same speed or near the same speed as the RAM, i.e. real clocks, not DDR mode, so for 3600MHz memory, that's 1800MHz for the memory controller.

There's really point getting some really exotic memory for Ryzen 3000, as beyond 3800MHz it's highly unlikely that you can run it at 1:1 with the memory controller and then you end up getting much higher latencies. I was over 80ns when I was running 1:2 with otherwise identical settings to above. It might not seem like a big difference, but it has quite a big impact on the performance on these CPUs.

This one, https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07N3W1T21/?tag=pcpapi-20 ??

1:1, 1:2 - can you explain a little more. I understand 1:2 adds greater latency but not sure whether these are options which are tweaked by the user when overclocking RAM or are these pre-configured profiles depending on purchased RAM frequency?

 

[TheLostSwede]

Does this application determine the best timings/clockspeeds automatically or does this require manual input?

I can't make sense of most of those screenshots (previous post too) but i'm kinda getting there.

It does require some manual input.
You need to know the following:
CPU
Memory ICs and ranks
How many modules
Motherboard chipset
BCLK

Then you set a target frequency for the RAM.
Hit R - XMP then Calculate SAFE.
Some settings support FAST and EXTREME as well, but it depends on the RAM you have.

I can actually get slightly better timings at lower Voltages than that.

 

[wheresmycar]

It does require some manual input.
You need to know the following:
CPU
Memory ICs and ranks
How many modules
Motherboard chipset
BCLK

Then you set a target frequency for the RAM.
Hit R - XMP then Calculate SAFE.
Some settings support FAST and EXTREME as well, but it depends on the RAM you have.

I can actually get slightly better timings at lower Voltages than that.

View attachment 128906
View attachment 128909
View attachment 128908

thanks

Are the chosen displayed configurations automatically applied (if thats even possible) or is this a case of printing off/screenshot-ing the data for manual adjustments in BIOS. Sorry for the retarded questions, if manually applying the changes, should everything match as shown on the 'Dram Calculator' or only specific sets of configurations? If specific, this might be a an overwhelming ask (apologies) but which configurations?

CPU -
Memory ICs and ranks - Is memory IC the default listed RAM frequency on the modules? Not sure about ranks, how do I locate this info for a given kit? I'm planning on purchasing a 2x16GB kit
How many modules
Motherboard chipset
BCLK - isn't this 100 by default? Or is this something I should check in BIOS to confirm?

 

[TheLostSwede]

thanks

Are the chosen displayed configurations automatically applied (if thats even possible) or is this a case of printing off/screenshot-ing the data for manual adjustments in BIOS. Sorry for the retarded questions, if manually applying the changes, should everything match as shown on the 'Dram Calculator' or only specific sets of configurations? If specific, this might be a an overwhelming ask (apologies) but which configurations?

CPU -
Memory ICs and ranks - Is memory IC the default listed RAM frequency on the modules? Not sure about ranks, how do I locate this info for a given kit? I'm planning on purchasing a 2x16GB kit
How many modules
Motherboard chipset
BCLK - isn't this 100 by default? Or is this something I should check in BIOS to confirm?

No, you have to manually enter into your UEFI. Some naming might also be different.
Start with the first five settings, the rest make much minor difference and can most likely be left on auto.

You can download Taiphoon Burner to find out what memory ICs you have. Otherwise you're going to have to use a search engine.
Ranks means if it's single or dual sided DIMMs. Dual sided DIMMs usually don't run as fast, although it's better on Ryzen 3000 based on some comments in the forums here.
Keep in mind that with four DIMMs, you won't hit the highest possible speeds, although again, it seems to be better on Ryzen 3000 than any other dual-channel memory platform to date.
Yes, BCLK is normally 100 and doesn't have to be changed unless you changed it.

 

[eidairaman1]

a couple of questions with the X570 mobo:

1. On these newer boards, other than limiting myself to zero available dimm slots for future upgrades does it make any difference if I went with 4 sticks of RAM opposed to 2? If yes, what kind of performance inconsistencies should I expect? ....i'd like a nice spread of RGB across the 4 dimms (4x8GB) but if diminishing performance is likely, i'm more than happy with 2 sticks (2x16GB).

2. What frequency and CAS latency is best recommended for Ryzen 3600/3700X, or more of a sweet spot for gaming/video editing/photoshop/general. Any particular recommended make/model kits which are proven to run better for tighter timing controls or higher OC'd frequencies?

Read the board manuals and qvls on asus.com, asrock.com, biostar.com, ecs.com, gigabyte.com, jetway.com, msi.com for needed configuration and supported speeds.

 

[TheLostSwede]

This one, https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07N3W1T21/?tag=pcpapi-20 ??

1:1, 1:2 - can you explain a little more. I understand 1:2 adds greater latency but not sure whether these are options which are tweaked by the user when overclocking RAM or are these pre-configured profiles depending on purchased RAM frequency?

Yes.

1:1 means that the IF bus runs at the same speed as the memory bus, i.e. 1800MHz for DDR4 3600MHz memory.
Going 1:x means that you get higher memory latency and the IF and memory bus are no longer running at the same speed.
It seems to be possible to run your RAM at one speed and the IF at another, that's not 1:1 or 1:2.
How much the higher latency really matters in real world applications is debatable and so far the Ryzen 3000 series seem to be a bit peculiar in what settings matters and I guess we need someone to do a lot more testing and comparison before it's clear what memory works best and what settings makes the most sense.
On the plus side, as pointed out before, the Ryzen 3000 series seems to be very memory friendly and although XMP profiles might not work, manual settings seem to go way outside of the rated memory spec.
Note that the Ryzen 3000 series doesn't seem to like odd numbered CAS settings.

 

[wheresmycar]

I am glad I have found the TheLostSwede hehe

This has been a very useful exchange, at a time when I had thought i'd never get my head around MEMORY OCing

Much appreciated!