This is a reason NOT to mine Chia...

[Aquinus]

I generally hate crypto but chia is another level of stupidity. You make plots and hope that one day you will get chosen and paid. That's like digging all around the earth in plots hoping to find a plot with hidden gold. Plus the fact that is destroys hard drives at record pace thus creating a lot of e waste.

I swear, some of the "developers" who make these things must have no professional experience or schooling beyond a 8 week bootcamp.
lOoK aT mE, i CaN mAkE a CrYpTo.

 

[Caring1]

Hard Drive manufacturers > "How can we make sheeple buy more product, more often?"

 

[Sandbo]

I swear, some of the "developers" who make these things must have no professional experience or schooling beyond a 8 week bootcamp.
lOoK aT mE, i CaN mAkE a CrYpTo.

Pretty sure some are junky developers, but just wanted to add that Chia was developed by Bram Cohen.

 

[silentbogo]

I swear, some of the "developers" who make these things must have no professional experience or schooling beyond a 8 week bootcamp.

A bit harsh. The backing principle is always the same - solving hashes, so depending on the approach there's always going to be some sort of tradeoff.
Maybe it's not the most accurate comparison, but that's the first thing that popped into my brain and it's the most intuitive: think of it as cracking password hashes. PoW in Ether and Bitcoin is an equivalent of bruteforce attack(needs lots of compute and takes a long time), while Chia is an equivalent of using a collision attack. Basically those exobytes of storage are used for one big-ass distributed rainbow table, which makes solving a lot faster but as you've probably noticed - requires a shitton of space. All the plotting that people do is essentially generating tables for partial hashes. Nothing new, nothing stupid, just the way things are until someone comes up with a better or hybrid solution.
BTW, even though Cohen is famous for BitTorrent , his other works extend beyond "8-week bootcamp". Just his approach to p2p brought a good kick and gave tons of inspiration to early digital content delivery and streaming services. Heck, he even worked at Valve at one point, developing content delivery system for Steam. Early Skype implementations were also heavily inspired by his work (back in a day it was 100% p2p network with trackers, peer exchange and all other traits of torrent net, just using fancier names).

 

[ExcuseMeWtf]

Chia crypto mining will destroy your 500GB SSD in just 6 weeks

You can ruin a 512GB SSD in just 40 days when you're crypto mining Chia, so you might want to be careful mining this crypto.

www.tweaktown.com

Yikes!

I hope that means SSD availability problem will be self-limiting. Surely with such short lifespan ROI is gonna be questionable...

 

[flatty]

I think is a "baloon" hand in hand with HDD manufacturers that are having huge stocks f HDD components. Related to SSD prices, in a while they will be in the situation to recycle them. Otherwise is a killing storage activity (affecting storage much more than GPU mining afect GPUs)

 

[Sandbo]

I hope that means SSD availability problem will be self-limiting. Surely with such short lifespan ROI is gonna be questionable...

In fact if you have followed the Chia development, it has already become unrealistic for home users to join the farming, i.e. ROI is in the realm of years for a new build for farming Chia.
On the other hand, pretty sure huge farms will not be using consumer drives as they can simply invest on enterprise SSDs which is more cost-effective long-term. I don't believe the SSD price can be affected, and I don't actually see a big shortage of it as of now.

Though, harddisks may become harder to buy, but I guess it will be limited to the larger drive with 12 TB or above for long term.
While everything >8TB is gone now, it will become limiting in terms of space and energy consumption if lots of small drives are used, the consumer market will hopefully recover pretty soon for 8-10 TB drives.

 

[lexluthermiester]

I hope that means SSD availability problem will be self-limiting. Surely with such short lifespan ROI is gonna be questionable...

One would hope, right?

 

[mclaren85]

Sometimes I wonder if this crypto shits are developed by the manufacturers itself.

And I do hope ethereum will decrease the lifespan of gpu as well.

 

[silentbogo]

And I do hope ethereum will decrease the lifespan of gpu as well.

Just like with everything else - it depends on the owner. Some dipshit playing fortnite and eating cheetos in a dirty dusty room that smells like farts, mold and damp socks is more likely to kill a GPU than a miner with proper setup, settings, power, and maintenance. My current setup has 5x 10-series cards, all of which have gone through a lot over the past 4+ years. All of them are still 100% OK, and some do even better than new after ultrasonic cleaning, repasting and new thermal pads. Even EVGA 1070 SC is still fine and haven't suffered an evil faith of burned PCB on vRAM VRM (common issue due to bad layout and design).
The only exception is the biggest, the loudest and by far the shittiest out of them all - ASUS GTX1070Ti Cerberus. It's a triple-slot monstrosity that weighs less than my old ITX variant of 1060, has no VRAM cooling at all, can't even keep a GPU under 65C with 60% PL, and barely squeezes out 25MH/s ('cause you can't overclock VRAM that lacks even ambient cooling). Fans are even louder than my 1U Supermicro with 10y.o. stock turbine. I have a feeling that ASUS had a "bring your kid to work" day, when they designed this card: lots of size, lots of sharp edges, lots of RGB, very little engineering.

Sometimes I wonder if this crypto shits are developed by the manufacturers itself.

Definitely not, but they sure love to jump on the bandwagon, all while playing both sides.

 

[Aquinus]

Basically those exobytes of storage are used for one big-ass distributed rainbow table

This is why I don't think it's harsh. Honestly, this is an absolutely terrible solution to the problem. It's just another "make the room warm," solution to processing transactions, now with gratuitous amounts of I/O! It just does it in a far worse way than a lot of other options.

BTW, even though Cohen is famous for BitTorrent , his other works extend beyond "8-week bootcamp".

Chunking up data to support concurrent downloads is not a bad idea, but that doesn't mean the same solution will work well for crypto. Honestly, the major issue with crypto is that most depend on an arbitrarily complex task. I do not think that this is the right solution. From a performance and power standpoint, most cryptos are absolutely terrible when compared to other financial transaction systems. Distributed systems for this kind of thing makes sense, but the amount of distribution is a little insane. I think that most cryptos went full retard with their implementations and it has resulted in very expensive transaction systems.

My point though is that a lot of developers are not engineers with little consideration about the consequences of having expensive processes for things that happen very often.

 

[lexluthermiester]

And I do hope ethereum will decrease the lifespan of gpu as well.

Why would you hope for that? Seems bitter and spiteful...

 

[Vayra86]

Greed distorting a utopian vision is all too familiar in crypto land, I'm afraid.

Its what it all floats on. Hey, we're all going to make money staking in transactions soon! Hey, the value of money has gone down by X% and a few whales define the value anyway, shit we're back at square one.

History repeats.

 

[mclaren85]

Why would you hope for that? Seems bitter and spiteful...

Dude we can't find a gpu while you have more than 10. That's not fair isn't it?

 

[lexluthermiester]

Dude we can't find a gpu while you have more than 10. That's not fair isn't it?

What the bloody blazes are you talking about? I'm not a miner. Try paying attention before spouting about...

 

[silentbogo]

Dude we can't find a gpu while you have more than 10. That's not fair isn't it?

I ride the bus to my office every day, while the dude in my apt. building has a Challenger, a Model S and a TT Quattro. That's not fair either, yet I don't yell "get a flat tire, you rich mothaf$%ka!!!" off my balcony.
People would probably think I'm a communist or something....

 

[Aquinus]

a Challenger, a Model S and a TT Quattro.

That's a nice lineup. The Challenger was probably the cheapest but has the most power.

Seriously though, life isn't fair. It's up to you to do something about that.

 

[lexluthermiester]

I ride the bus to my office every day, while the dude in my apt. building has a Challenger, a Model S and a TT Quattro. That's not fair either, yet I don't yell "get a flat tire, you rich mothaf$%ka!!!" off my balcony.
People would probably think I'm a communist or something....

Excellent point!

 

[masterdeejay]

I think almost none of the farmers don't understand what is green farming.

Not green:
buying ssd and killing it with plotting - that is waste
buying all the big hdd to farm - that is not good for the hdd prices - look at the video card prices now! i dont want that with the hdd prices
buying new rig - why do we need a new ryzen on i7 for plotting if we can use older hardware cheaper (haswell xeon for the win)

Green:
solar or other green power source
used or trash parts
cheapest as possible

So i started farming chia that i think green!
Electricity is from industrial solar power.
Most ot the rig parts is from trash, or used.
First complete Rig:
Chinese x99 matx (85 usd aliexpress)
2x32gb ecc reg ddr4 (110 usd local seller)
Xeon 4655v3 (60 usd aliexpress)
cheap new cooler modded to the socket (8 usd)
Dell H310 raid card modded to IT/HBA mode and hacked queue depth fw (35 USD) 6+8 ports but i use all usb ports to racked hdd-s
Mixed 2,5"-3,5" sizes 500gb-1tb-1,5tb-2tb-3tb-4tb HDD-s (over 14Tb to farm, few tb to plot, cost was ~150 usd, few have bad sectors but works fine)
Thermaltake 450w (10 usd)
no video card, because i use RDP only
Case is chieftek old but heavy from trash (i have 3 of these cases)
With the 500gb-s hdd in raid0 makes 6-8 plot per day, that is not much i know. I still have ~4tb space to plot

Second is not ready yet
Chinese x99 ATX (125 usd)
Xeon 2643v3 (110 usd)
4x8gb ecc REG (105 usd)
Akasa A20 (trash, repaired)
10x500gb Toshiba used hdd-s (10 pcs was 75 usd)
A lot of other hdds, mixed 320-500gb size
3ware raid and dell h310 modded raid cards (8+8+8 ports) (30 and 35 usd)
Cooler master case and 500w cooler master power supply from trash (repaired capacitor)
Another noname case near the main case for the other hdd-s that not fit in the main case. (i have long 8087-4 sata cables, and custom power cables)

I made custom sata cables from not working psu-s.
For plotting i use the 320-500 raid0 arrays, that makes 1 plot/12-16 hours per array

i have started working solo, but i got nothing so i joined a pool (chia-core.com) yesterday. I got 0.008 XCH in the first day.




Yes it is need more work than putting new hardware in the rig but is is much more fun to build.
So there is a reason to not mine chia?
Greedy people makes this coin bad, not the coin itself

 

[las]

Anything beyond TLC is utter garbage.

You can still get MLC, but it comes at a price premium.

Regular consumers don't need MLC, why do you think they are pushing TLC for consumers, and still offer 5-10 years warrenty, QLC is the new TLC

I still have TLC drives from 2010-2012 running 24/7 with a few read/writes now and then. Zero smart issues and same performance numbers.

You only need MLC if you write tons of data every day, all day - OR MINE CHIA, hahah

 

[JinuIslife8]

I truly thought nobody would really make a mining technique that requires super-fast reliable SSD and what do you know it happened. also you thought SSD would last years with hardcore gaming but nobody said how long it would take for CHIA mining though. Even though very few hundreds/thousands are actually using this mining it is also dangerous to a lot of people if some miners managed to hack into someone else's PC they can just download the CHIA program secretly letting it run secretly until a month or two later the whole system storages dies out YIKES. This is both a danger to people and storages.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Regular consumers don't need MLC

That is your opinion. It is not supported by real world practical usage.

why do you think they are pushing TLC for consumers, and still offer 5-10 years warranty

Oh I don't know... For perhaps profit? Yeah let's go with that.

You only need MLC if you write tons of data every day, all day

Again, your opinion.

 

[las]

That is your opinion. It is not supported by real world practical usage.

Oh I don't know... For perhaps profit? Yeah let's go with that.

Again, your opinion.

My opinion, which all the top consumer SSD manufacturers share if they were unsure TLC would last, they would not give the warrenty they do. Warrenty = new drive if broken, meaning they will LOOSE money pretty much... so Profit, nah

You pretty much only need MLC for heavy write operations, and top TLC today beats MLC drives from years ago on longevity anyway - feel free to compare TBW - which is the reason they are now using QLC in cheaper drives and TLC has become standard, again, for consumers

Who cares if your SSD lasts 15 or 30 years, it's going to be pretty much useless in 5-10 (too small and/or slow)

No gaming rig needs a MLC drive, unless you install and uninstall 50 huge games a week maybe, it's waste of money

I change my OS drive every 2-4 years; 60GB -> 128GB -> 256GB -> 500GB -> 1TB etc. No way I will buy MLC today. I replace too often, my TLC drives are at 100% health every time im done with them, and they sell just fine, or used in other rigs, ZERO issues with TLC drives and installed 100s over the years, especially Samsung 850/860 Evo line, not a single DOA or issue

The only SSD I have ever had dying on me was a Samsung 830, a MLC drive...

All the top selling and recommended SSDs today are all TLC. MLC pretty much left consumer market.

 

[R-T-B]

Greedy people makes this coin bad, not the coin itself

Story of crypto since it's existence.

 

[JinuIslife8]

Here's a little joke
People these days: nobody will ever need super fast m.2 SSD and high amount of storages with the hard disk drive that can last at least 3-6 years
Chia: and I took that personally