General Cryptocoin Discussion

[ShiBDiB]

be real chaps as the US printing machines go brrrrr the value of each dollar created becomes less... this is a fact with no way around it..

the whole idea of bitcoin is to step outside of this goveremnt and banking created chaos.. become your own bank and take control of your own money..

will it work.. maybe.. maybe not..

trog

Lol the illusion that crypto is at all outside of government reach has been dead for years. It's even more obvious now that the FBI proved it can recover it from an international hacking groups wallets.

 

[Outback Bronze]

outside of government

Have to kinda agree with you there. We get Taxed on it now so that means they have their finger in the pie.

 

[trog100]

Lol the illusion that crypto is at all outside of government reach has been dead for years. It's even more obvious now that the FBI proved it can recover it from an international hacking groups wallets.

maybe.. he he

trog

 

[R-T-B]

Lol the illusion that crypto is at all outside of government reach has been dead for years. It's even more obvious now that the FBI proved it can recover it from an international hacking groups wallets.

I'm still skeptical that even happened. The idea that they left it in a coinbase managed wallet on US soil stinks to high heavens.

 

[AusWolf]

I think we're needlessly tripping over the phrase "in general." Crypto is good for freedom of any sort, is what I mean. It has some specific uses that aid in creating a more free society, sure. But it's also just good for freedom as an idea. For some of us, freedom is not a means, but an end. I also think we don't agree on the meaning of freedom in the first place, so here. Read this.

Non-aggression principle - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Call me what you will, but I still fail to see how all of this has any connection to cryptocurrencies.

I don't know about GBP, but the US is literally printing money constantly, every second of every day. And GBP's value is as inextricably tied to the USD as our countries' economies are, so I can't imagine that bodes well for you either.
As for crypto, a regular joe can learn about how crypto works. Once he has educated himself, and understands the algorithms involved, he will know beyond a shadow of a doubt that BTC is finite. If Joe doesn't want to educate himself, then he'll just have to take my word for it that it's mathematically impossible to create more BTC than the maximum. (Note, this does not apply to ALL cryptocurrencies. Some are infinitely mintable.)
Or, joe can refuse to either educate himself or take my word for it, and just live his life in a state of being wrong. Doesn't hurt me.

I'm not planning on getting into crypto, so I guess I'll take your word for it for now.

As for the last part about cars, and you buying all of them up... Yep. Now you've got the picture!

That's great, but doesn't that work against the idea of freedom? I mean, if I maintain a fleet of 10,000 cars to make money while you have to walk an hour to work every day, I guess you can see it as freedom to use your legs, but I only see a system just as unfair and exploitative as the one we currently live in (or maybe even more so).

 

[64K]

I've noticed that 3080s sold prices continue to drop on Ebay for the most part. A couple of you guys mentioned that Ethereum Proof of Work is coming to an end. Does that mean miners will stop mining Ethereum? I'm trying to understand the price drops for 3080s.

 

[hat]

I've noticed that 3080s sold prices continue to drop on Ebay for the most part. A couple of you guys mentioned that Ethereum Proof of Work is coming to an end. Does that mean miners will stop mining Ethereum? I'm trying to understand the price drops for 3080s.

I'm not sure what that change will bring, but the market as a whole has tanked. Probably less people buying hardware.

 

[sepheronx]

I've noticed that 3080s sold prices continue to drop on Ebay for the most part. A couple of you guys mentioned that Ethereum Proof of Work is coming to an end. Does that mean miners will stop mining Ethereum? I'm trying to understand the price drops for 3080s.

Once it goes through the merge, ETH mining will be done. Now, some other coins like RVN, Conflux, ERGO and anything on Cryptonight is ASIC resistant, ETC is not. So the ASIC's will go to ETC mining while GPU mining hashrates will diverge to altcoins.

The actual major threat I see is Nicehash alone. Nicehash accounts for a massive amount of the hash power for ETH. Now for most people, they do not control (more or less) which coin they are renting their hardware out for. So it is all that hashrates jumping all to a single coin that may be a problem. Unless the team comes up with something that auto diversifies but I doubt that heavily (judging by how they operate).

Other than that, no one really knows for certain.

 

[lexluthermiester]

I've noticed that 3080s sold prices continue to drop on Ebay for the most part. A couple of you guys mentioned that Ethereum Proof of Work is coming to an end. Does that mean miners will stop mining Ethereum? I'm trying to understand the price drops for 3080s.

Going from Proof of Work to Proof of Stake changes everything. GPU mining will have little to no return yield. Anything else based on GPU/GPGPU mining will quickly follow suit and GPU's as mining devices will become an absurd notion.

 

[AusWolf]

Going from Proof of Work to Proof of Stake changes everything. GPU mining will have little to no return yield. Anything else based on GPU/GPGPU mining will quickly follow suit and GPU's as mining devices will become an absurd notion.

I hope all currencies will follow, and what you just said will be a general notion applicable not only to Ethereum.

 

[sepheronx]

I hope all currencies will follow, and what you just said will be a general notion applicable not only to Ethereum.

wishful thinking.

GPU mining isn't going to go anywhere. New coins pop up and get backed by PoW which gains popularity through the same group. Then what follows suite are investors. Conflux network for instance is specifically PoW. Same with Cryptonight.

Most altcoins are not even mineable. Most are POS in some form or another. A lot are also scams too. Their value doesn't actually correlate by that either.

 

[lexluthermiester]

GPU mining isn't going to go anywhere.

Oh yes it is. It will go the way of the dodo very soon. Environment concerns alone will force the conversion.

 

[sepheronx]

Oh yes it is. It will go the way of the dodo very soon. Environment concerns alone will force the conversion.

sorry, it wont. If you wish to make a bet on that.

The environmental part was already debunked too. So it doesn't really matter. We have gone over it to death how the state and its Fiat printing uses far more energy than Crypto.

The debate about cryptocurrency and energy consumption | TechCrunch

Energy consumption has become the latest flashpoint for cryptocurrency. Critics decry it as an energy hog while proponents hail it for being less

techcrunch.com

 

[lexluthermiester]

sorry, it wont.

It's already begun.

If you wish to make a bet on that.

Sure, free money is always good.

The environmental part was already debunked too.

And if you really believe THAT, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn, New York I'd like to sell you...

 

[sepheronx]

It's already begun.

Sure, free money is always good.

And if you really believe THAT, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn, New York I'd like to sell you...

it hasn't. Sorry

And I already posted a link. Have a read. https://techcrunch.com/2021/03/21/the-debate-about-cryptocurrency-and-energy-consumption/

I know you dont like bitcoin. It is best not to divulge into something that you hate so much and refuse to acknowledge that it wont go anywhere. I think this conversation is over.

Edit: Now that is over with, here is some interesting news breakdown for folks:

 

[AusWolf]

it hasn't. Sorry

And I already posted a link. Have a read. https://techcrunch.com/2021/03/21/the-debate-about-cryptocurrency-and-energy-consumption/

I quickly skimmed through this article. It seems like it's only talking about electricity usage. What about GPU manufacturing and e-waste?

 

[sepheronx]

I quickly skimmed through this article. It seems like it's only talking about electricity usage. What about GPU manufacturing and e-waste?

what about e-waste?

GPU manufacturing is an e-waste itself then. e-waste is found nearly everywhere. Why not blame Apple then? Or Samsung? This is an endless debate. Nor is it a debate that matters.

 

[AusWolf]

what about e-waste?

GPU manufacturing is an e-waste itself then. e-waste is found nearly everywhere. Why not blame Apple then? Or Samsung? This is an endless debate.

E-waste on consumer level is always going to be a lot smaller than with mining. A home user doesn't need a hundred GPUs to play games, only one - and even that one doesn't necessarily need to be of the latest generation. Same with phones: you need only one, and when you're done with it, there's a huge used market that's happy to take care of it for you.

Not to mention the fact that you don't push your hardware to the edge of death by playing games a couple hours a day, as opposed to mining 24/7.

 

[lexluthermiester]

it hasn't. Sorry

Ok, keep telling yourself that.

And I already posted a link. Have a read. https://techcrunch.com/2021/03/21/the-debate-about-cryptocurrency-and-energy-consumption/

That article, and it's conclusions, are flawed beyond reason. What a terrible citation. Let's presume one point is correct(which it isn't): Mining puts a .6% additional load on the power infrastructure of the world. That's .6% ADDITIONAL load on an already over-stressed power system. That's a extra load which would otherwise not exist if mining wasn't a thing.

GPU/GPGPU based mining is going bye bye whether you like it or not, or want to admit it or not.

 

[sepheronx]

E-waste on consumer level is always going to be a lot smaller than with mining. A home user doesn't need a hundred GPUs to play games, only one - and even that one doesn't necessarily need to be of the latest generation. Same with phones: you need only one, and when you're done with it, there's a huge used market that's happy to take care of it for you.

Nope

https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/global-ewaste-monitor-2020-1.5634759#:~:text=The%20new%20report%20also%20predicts,waste%20in%20just%2016%20years.&text=E%2Dwaste%20is%20a%20health,hazardous%20substances%20such%20as%20mercury.

A home user doesn't have 100 GPU's. The people like Bitsbetrippin, Redpanda miner, Vostcoin, etc are very small. These guys have teams and facilities. Average person does not.

Article stipulates consumer grade stuff like fridges, dishwashers, etc are the problem now.

So, how many people go through a phone per year? How many people have phones? I guarantee you more than they have of GPU's.

Ok, keep telling yourself that.

That article, and it's conclusions, are flawed beyond reason. What a terrible citation. Let's presume one point is correct(which it isn't): Mining puts a .6% additional load on the power infrastructure of the world. That's .6% ADDITIONAL load on an already over-stressed power system that would otherwise not exist if mining wasn't a thing.

GPU/GPGPU based mining is going bye bye whether you like it or not, or want to admit it or not.

Sure it is. Whatever you say. But I tend to trust those who actually have stake in this business than people who just have a hate for it. And those say otherwise, and they keep a very strong eye on what is happening.

Here, you hate that article, have another where they also say its overblown:

How Much Energy Does Bitcoin Actually Consume?

Today, Bitcoin consumes as much energy as a small country. This certainly sounds alarming — but the reality is a little more complicated. The author discusses several common misconceptions surrounding the Bitcoin sustainability debate, and ultimately argues that it’s up to the crypto community...

hbr.org

But you will just hate that article and the next and the next and so on so forth. Pointless.

Maybe crypto mining may die for those with expensive electricity. For those of us with cheap electricity, no. And now I am getting $5K from government in Solar panels so I will pay even less for energy.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Here, you hate that article, have another where they also say its overblown:

How Much Energy Does Bitcoin Actually Consume?

Today, Bitcoin consumes as much energy as a small country. This certainly sounds alarming — but the reality is a little more complicated. The author discusses several common misconceptions surrounding the Bitcoin sustainability debate, and ultimately argues that it’s up to the crypto community...

hbr.org

But you will just hate that article and the next and the next and so on so forth. Pointless.

You keep using the word "hate". It's sounds childish and is inappropriate. Just because I don't like/agree/support something doesn't mean "hate" is involved. Continuing on...

That article was interesting. It's opening line is very telling;

Summary.
Today, Bitcoin consumes as much energy as a small country.

Power that would otherwise not be used if mining didn't exist and was not being used just 5 years ago..

The rest of that article seems to be an attempt at justification and a shallow one at that.

Pointless.

You were saying?

 

[AusWolf]

Nope

https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/global-ewaste-monitor-2020-1.5634759#:~:text=The%20new%20report%20also%20predicts,waste%20in%20just%2016%20years.&text=E%2Dwaste%20is%20a%20health,hazardous%20substances%20such%20as%20mercury.

A home user doesn't have 100 GPU's. The people like Bitsbetrippin, Redpanda miner, Vostcoin, etc are very small. These guys have teams and facilities. Average person does not.

Article stipulates consumer grade stuff like fridges, dishwashers, etc are the problem now.

So, how many people go through a phone per year? How many people have phones? I guarantee you more than they have of GPU's.

That article talks about how huge consumer level e-waste already is. Nowhere does it mention anything about mining, so it doesn't serve as a comparison.

Of course individual miners are very small when you compare them to the whole market. But the fact that they have teams and facilities make them a whole lot bigger than individuals only wanting to play games after a hard day's work.

Waste of consumer grade stuff is a problem, that's ok. We haven't seen how big of a problem the current crypto mining boom is going to be as it only started with the current generation of graphics cards. We'll see what happens when the GeForce 40 series comes out. I guarantee that the used market will be flooded with barely working 30 series cards, and a lot of them will be discarded as waste too. I've seen pictures of whole warehouses filled with mining rigs. GPUs in those machines are all going to waste at some point.

 

[sepheronx]

You keep using the word "hate". It's sounds childish and is inappropriate. Just because I don't like/agree/support something doesn't mean "hate" is involved. Continuing on...

That article was interesting. It's opening line is very telling;

Power that would otherwise not be used if mining didn't exist and was not being used just 5 years ago..


You were saying?

what is childish is how dead certain you are and say "its happening" without anything. That, is childish. You made it clear you don't like it. So that is your problem, not mine.

But I will not go down to your level. Enjoy your beliefs and I hope things work out well for you.

You should also read the remaining of the article.

That article talks about how huge consumer level e-waste already is. Nowhere does it mention anything about mining, so it doesn't serve as a comparison.

Of course individual miners are very small when you compare them to the whole market. But the fact that they have teams and facilities make them a whole lot bigger than individuals only wanting to play games after a hard day's work.

Waste of consumer grade stuff is a problem, that's ok. We haven't seen how big of a problem the current crypto mining boom is going to be as it only started with the current generation of graphics cards. We'll see what happens when the GeForce 40 series comes out. I guarantee that the used market will be flooded with barely working 30 series cards, and a lot of them will be discarded as waste too. I've seen pictures of whole warehouses filled with mining rigs. GPUs in those machines are all going to waste at some point.

You are aware that miners also use a lot of older GPU's, no? RX470's are still used to mine RVN and other coins.

 

[lexluthermiester]

what is childish is how dead certain you are and say "its happening" without anything. That, is childish.

But I will not go down to your level. Enjoy your beliefs and I hope things work out well for you.

You should also read the remaining of the article.

See edit...

 

[sepheronx]

See edit...

ah, so you just hate that article too (as I speculated already). So nothing satisfies you regardless the sources.

Good to know. Bye.