Help with EDP Other on All 3 Columns

[m4l0n]

I currently have the i7-10510U CPU, and have successfully undervolted. I also did some mods to eliminate the throttling using the guide from this link: https://bradshacks.com/matebook-x-pro-throttling/ I did see some improvements in the temperature. However, I am still seeing EDP Other throttling under all three columns in the Limits window 90% of the time.

I've been looking for solutions f to no avail. Most threads are only targeting the EDP Other issue in either one of the columns, but none that targets all three. I will be posting my Throttlestop settings and I sincerely hope someone can possibly suggest a solution to this. Thank you.

I'll attach a log file that I generated while playing some games. It might be helpful, or not.
https://pastebin.com/afMJZPTK

 

[unclewebb]

One of the things that controls EDP going red under all three columns in Limit Reasons simultaneously is Power Limit 4. You already have this set to 0 which usually tells the CPU to ignore this limit. You can also try setting Power Limit 4 to the maximum value which is 1023.

If that does not help then you might be out of luck. The "Other" part of EDP Other is not clearly defined in any Intel documentation that I have seen. It is quite possible that your laptop has set a current limit internally that ThrottleStop is not aware of or does not have access to.

At 17:01:47 in the log file there is a POWER STATUS CHANGE message. There are a few of these notices in the log file. If you were not unplugging your laptop then it is possible that your power adapter is not adequate to fully power your computer. Some laptops will randomly switch to battery power to cover up the fact that the power adapter that was shipped is under sized and inadequate. Half of the market seems to think that a small inadequate power adapter that fits in your purse is a wonderful idea. I think it is a bad idea but that is what manufacturers are doing. This might explain why your laptop has a hidden power limit that is causing almost constant EDP throttling.

Most of your ThrottleStop settings look OK. I know Brad likes to clear the Short Power PL2 check box but it is really not necessary. Checking this box ensures that the 50W limit you have entered for PL2 is sent to the CPU. I avoid checking either of the Clamp options.

I prefer to check the Speed Shift box in the TPL window. This just makes sure that the Speed Shift Min and Max values are sent to the CPU.

I would set the PP0 Power Limit to 0, press Apply and then I would clear the check mark from this option. I am not sure if this is still used on 10th Gen U series CPUs. Setting it to zero should tell the CPU to ignore this limit.

In the Options window PROCHOT Offset is set to 8. This tells the CPU to start thermal throttling at 92°C instead of the full Intel recommended 100°C. Somewhere around 3 is usually a good value for PROCHOT Offset. Intel does not seem to mind if their CPUs run a little hot.

The FIVR monitoring table shows that the CPU is using a Speed Shift EPP value of 64. Your first screenshot shows that you are requesting a value of 16. Your request might be getting ignored. I just let Windows control the EPP value. When you check the Speed Shift box on the main screen of ThrottleStop, you might end up with a situation where ThrottleStop is constantly writing one value to the EPP register and Windows is constantly writing a different value. The FIVR monitoring table will show who is winning this game. I prefer not to fight against Windows. The Balanced power plan typically sets EPP to 84 when plugged in which is a good compromise. This lets the CPU slow down when it is lightly loaded.

Using ThrottleStop to access the Windows High Performance power plan is OK for gaming when plugged in. If your computer supports Modern Standby (Connected Standby) mode, the High Performance power plan will usually interfere with that. This is the reason that Microsoft tries to hide he HP power plan in Power Options. When running your laptop on battery power, switch back to the Balanced power plan before putting your laptop in your back pack.

Maybe someday I will widen ThrottleStop a few pixels so you can continue using your wide ass font.

Edit - It looks like your Nvidia GPU is being temperature limited in the log file to approximately 85°C. If you can find a way to improve cooling, you should get better and more consistent FPS. A Nvidia GPU running at 1500 MHz is going to perform a lot better compared to when it is constantly being cycled and throttled down to 937 MHz.

I think Asus GPU Tweak used to have a feature that would let you increase the GPU throttling temperature. Not sure if this is possible with your laptop. Probably wouldn't be a safe thing to do but I try not to let common sense get in the way of these decisions.

 

[dnm_TX]

I prefer to check the Speed Shift box in the TPL window. This just makes sure that the Speed Shift Min and Max values are sent to the CPU.

@unclewebb i have to ask. I've set up my undervolt purely based on your responses to users here,reddit etc. and in the past you were allways advising to leave Speed Shift box unchecked and let Windows handle it. So which is it (10th Gen I7-10750H here)?

P.S. I also noticed couple of bugs,or should i say annoyances that would like to report. Would you like me to do it here or to open a new post?

 

[unclewebb]

unchecked

I recommend checking the Speed Shift box in the TPL window and leaving the Speed Shift - EPP box on the main screen unchecked. On most recent computers running Windows 10, the EPP value is handled OK by Windows.

annoyances

Start a new thread in the ThrottleStop forum and I will have a look.

 

[dnm_TX]

I recommend checking the Speed Shift box in the TPL window and leaving the Speed Shift - EPP box on the main screen unchecked.


Start a new thread in the ThrottleStop forum and I will have a look.

The Speed Shift originally is set to 1 and 50. Past recommendation of yours advises to set it to more sane number,like 8 and 50. Can you confirm(advise) on this one please. Thanks.

I'll open a new post shortly to address those bugs.

 

[unclewebb]

Whether you set Speed Shift Min to 1 or 8 makes zero difference. Both values tell the CPU to use the minimum multiplier which for your CPU is likely 8.

The BIOS likes to set the minimum to 1. This is the value that ThrottleStop initially reads from the CPU. That value is fine. There is no 1 multiplier so I prefer seeing the actual minimum value which is 8.

 

[dnm_TX]

Whether you set Speed Shift Min to 1 or 8 makes zero difference. Both values tell the CPU to use the minimum multiplier which for your CPU is likely 8.

The BIOS likes to set the minimum to 1. This is the value that ThrottleStop initially reads from the CPU. That value is fine. There is no 1 multiplier so I prefer seeing the actual minimum value which is 8.

Will do. Thanks again.

 

[m4l0n]

@unclewebb Thanks a lot for the response. I read through your suggestions and applied them. I tried playing a game and the performance turned out worse than before. It throttled several times during the game and the FPS dropped to 8 ~10 for about 10 seconds. Don't know why it happened though. Unfortunately I do not have the log file as I did not expect it to turn out this way. I may attempt it later on with the log file. Outside of gaming, the laptop runs fine with temperature at about 48 ~ 58 °C.

At 17:01:47 in the log file there is a POWER STATUS CHANGE message. There are a few of these notices in the log file. If you were not unplugging your laptop then it is possible that your power adapter is not adequate to fully power your computer. Some laptops will randomly switch to battery power to cover up the fact that the power adapter that was shipped is under sized and inadequate. Half of the market seems to think that a small inadequate power adapter that fits in your purse is a wonderful idea. I think it is a bad idea but that is what manufacturers are doing. This might explain why your laptop has a hidden power limit that is causing almost constant EDP throttling.

Actually, I'm not using the power adapter provided. I'm using the CalDigit TS3 Plus which does provide a power output of up to 85 W (I believe). I'm also using the Huawei PC Manager to limit the charge at 70%. Not sure if it is relevant here?

Edit: I've played a game and generated the log file: https://pastebin.com/ATGmtkVp

 

[unclewebb]

FPS dropped to 8 ~10 for about 10 seconds

The log file shows that your CPU is constantly running at 95°C to 100°C. Every time you see the word TEMP in the far right column of the log file, that means your CPU is bouncing off the thermal throttling temperature. Look at the log file. From top to bottom it shows almost constant thermal throttling.

This leaves you with two choices. You can either pull your laptop apart, replace the thermal paste and try to improve the cooling or you can use ThrottleStop to reduce the PL1 and PL2 turbo power limits.

The 10510U has a 15W TDP rating.

Intel® Core™ i7-10510U Processor (8M Cache, up to 4.90 GHz) - Product Specifications | Intel

Intel® Core™ i7-10510U Processor (8M Cache, up to 4.90 GHz) quick reference with specifications, features, and technologies.

ark.intel.com

The heatsink and fan in your computer were designed around that specification. They might be capable of keeping your CPU from overheating if the PL1 and PL2 power limits are set to the 25W level. The heatsink is not capable of keeping your CPU from overheating at the 50W level that you have PL1 and PL2 currently set to.

The next problem is that after your computer overheats continuously for a while then it finally says, OK, enough is enough. That is when the severe throttling starts. In the far right column of the log file the TEMP warnings change to BD PROCHOT warnings. If you look in the MULTI column when this happens the CPU drops from approximately 3100 MHz down to 400 MHz and gets locked to 400 MHz for up to a minute at a time. That is the reason why your games become completely unplayable. The Nvidia GPU is also thermal throttling.

   DATE       TIME    MULTI   C0%   CKMOD  BAT_mW  TEMP   NVIDIA GPU     VID   POWER
2022-02-28  18:16:36  31.35   52.3  100.0    -511   96     937    88   0.9647   26.0   TEMP
2022-02-28  18:16:37  31.58   46.0  100.0    -511   97     937    88   0.8651   25.9   TEMP
2022-02-28  18:16:38  32.14   44.0  100.0    -511   96     937    88   0.9335   26.9   TEMP
2022-02-28  18:16:39  21.57   57.0  100.0    -511   87     937    88   0.5186   19.7   BDPRO
2022-02-28  18:16:40   4.00   74.2  100.0    -511   86     937    86   0.5186    2.8   BDPRO
2022-02-28  18:16:41   4.00   73.2  100.0    -511   86     937    86   0.5186    2.9   BDPRO
2022-02-28  18:16:42   4.00   77.8  100.0    -511   86     937    85   0.5186    2.8   BDPRO
2022-02-28  18:16:43   4.00   84.9  100.0    -511   85     937    85   0.5186    2.9   BDPRO
2022-02-28  18:16:44   4.00   86.0  100.0    -511   85     937    85   0.5188    2.8   BDPRO
2022-02-28  18:16:45   4.00   80.5  100.0    -511   85     937    85   0.5186    2.8   BDPRO

To fix BD PROCHOT throttling you could try clearing the BD PROCHOT box on the main screen of ThrottleStop. Because your CPU is overheating so bad, I would be hesitant to do this. BD PROCHOT means that something besides the CPU has gotten too hot. I am not sure what external sensor is sending a throttling signal to your CPU but considering your overall CPU temperatures, this external sensor is probably legit.

Actually, I'm not using the power adapter provided

For some laptops, this can cause major problems. Dell laptops were famous for severe throttling if they could not detect that a genuine Dell adapter was being used. At the moment, your power adapter is the least of your problems. It is probably OK.

I'm also using the Huawei PC Manager to limit the charge at 70%

I would not be using that software when trying to play a game. The way this magic software keeps your battery at 70% is it randomly switches back and forth from plugged in to battery power. You either end up with some throttling to protect the battery or you end up doing more harm to the battery than good. Even when plugged in, this software will have you gaming while on battery power. That is not good for FPS or for your battery.

Fully charged batteries can last for years. They are not that expensive if and when they need to be replaced. A battery that is only charged to 70% is not for me.

 

[m4l0n]

@unclewebb Thank you again for your response. Before applying the settings that you have recommended, my laptop could indeed reach 40 ~ 50 W with no problems (no severe throttling) although the temperature is still 92 ~ 100 °C while playing my game. The only issue I had was EDP Other during normal usage.

For some laptops, this can cause major problems. Dell laptops were famous for severe throttling if they could not detect that a genuine Dell adapter was being used. At the moment, your power adapter is the least of your problems. It is probably OK.

Yeap, it indeed shouldn't be the issue in my case as I have been using the CalDigit TS3 Plus dock for a year now and there wasn't any sort of issues like this.

I would not be using that software when trying to play a game. The way this magic software keeps your battery at 70% is it randomly switches back and forth from plugged in to battery power. You either end up with some throttling to protect the battery or you end up doing more harm to the battery than good. Even when plugged in, this software will have you gaming while on battery power. That is not good for FPS or for your battery.

I see. I've removed the Battery Protection settings and lowered the PL1 and PL2 limits to 30 W. Also slightly increased the SpeedShift min value. Played a game and it works without severe throttling now. The log file can be seen here: https://pastebin.com/eaetgz9D . My GPU actually has a limit of 10W, not sure if that matters as I see that it's stucked at 937 most of the time. The limit reason also shows mostly TEMP instead of BD PROCHOT as seen before. Might redo the mods that I've done on the GPU and see if that helps. Other than that, do you think there are any issues that can be observed from the logs?

Edit: After removing the Battery Protection settings, it still shows POWER STATUS CHANGE in the log file. Not sure why is that.

 

[unclewebb]

no severe throttling

Your log file continues to show constant throttling of both the CPU and Nvidia GPU because they are too hot. Improve your cooling if you want to improve performance further. At least the severe BD PROCHOT throttling is gone.

lowered the PL1 and PL2 limits to 30 W

You still have a CPU with a 15W TDP rating from Intel with enough cooling for maybe 25W at the max. Not much point in trying to run it at 30W if the cooling cannot handle this.

My GPU actually has a limit of 10W

Your Nvidia GPU has a temperature limit of approximately 85°C. That is the limit that you are up against. The GPU slows down to 937 MHz so it does not exceed that temperature. It is the GPU temperature that is causing the GPU to throttle.

Capping the CPU PL1 and PL2 power limits to 15W might give you better gaming performance. Most laptops with U series processors have a shared heatsink for the CPU and Nvidia GPU. If you reduce power consumption and heat of the CPU, this might allow the GPU to run cooler and faster. This will help you avoid GPU thermal throttling. Watch the log file. Try to keep the GPU temp under 85°C and see if your games play any smoother.

it still shows POWER STATUS CHANGE in the log file. Not sure why is that.

Some laptops are programmed based on the default OEM power adapter. That means if your laptop originally shipped with a 65W power adapter and you decide to switch it to a 100W power adapter, your computer will not know this. It will still assume that you are running a 65W power adapter. When some laptops are plugged in during a heavy load, they are engineered to automatically draw some power from the battery. This is typical of laptops with 15W U series CPUs. Increasing the CPU power limits beyond 15W might cause switching to battery power to happen more often. When my laptop is plugged in, the BAT_mW column in the log file always shows 0. This means the battery is neither being charged or drained.

Most laptops that are engineered with adequate power adapters do not show POWER STATUS CHANGE messages when plugged in during normal use.

 

[m4l0n]

Capping the CPU PL1 and PL2 power limits to 15W might give you better gaming performance. Most laptops with U series processors have a shared heatsink for the CPU and Nvidia GPU. If you reduce power consumption and heat of the CPU, this might allow the GPU to run cooler and faster. This will help you avoid GPU thermal throttling. Watch the log file. Try to keep the GPU temp under 85°C and see if your games play any smoother.

Alright. Yeah I think I'll have to further reduce the temp of CPU to prevent GPU thermal throttling. I ran a GPU stress test before and the only limit reasons I could notice from HWInfo was Power Limit.

When some laptops are plugged in during a heavy load, they are engineered to automatically draw some power from the battery

I see. Guess there is no way to bypass this

Thank you so much for your advice thus far. I really appreciate it.