Electric costs to run the crunchers and folding PCs....

[Dr_b_]

Standing charge is something they charge us over in the UK (I presume else where also??) for the 'use' of the cables/pipes in the ground connected to the property... God only knows why they are doubling it for the electric and then only adding on 1.1p a day for the gas.. Heaven only knows.... I've never understood that charge.....

Ahh the fees to deliver the power, they break it down for us like this:

Distribution Service
Generation
Transmission
Fuel
And a plethora of other charges, fees and taxes. its a wonder anyone has money left after paying it

 

[Tatty_Two]

Ahh the fees to deliver the power, they break it down for us like this:

Distribution Service
Generation
Transmission
Fuel
And a plethora of other charges, fees and taxes. its a wonder anyone has money left after paying it

In the UK it is described as a fee to "access energy" a bit like a telephone line rental that you need for broadband even though you pay for broadband here separately. In essence it's for maintenance and it also offsets the company's bill to the government for levies, it's still a rip off because if you go on holiday for a few weeks and use no energy you still have to pay the standing charge

 

[trog100]

In the UK it is described as a fee to "access energy" a bit like a telephone line rental that you need for broadband even though you pay for broadband here separately. In essence it's for maintenance and it also offsets the company's bill to the government for levies, it's still a rip off because if you go on holiday for a few weeks and use no energy you still have to pay the standing charge

i did read recently that 25% of the UK bill goes on "green" subsidies..

trog

 

[Tatty_Two]

i did read recently that 25% of the UK bill goes on "green" subsidies..

trog

And that is exactly the thing, energy companies are set targets by government, whether they be "green" related or others relating to performance, if they fail to meet them we pay the fines through the standing charge, so what incentive is there for these companies to actually hit those targets?

 

[bogmali]

We are in danger of venturing off topic here as this thread is energy prices and their relation to Folding costs

Someone already has by inserting the crypto topic........thread cleansed

 

[HammerON]

Here is last month's electric bill:
Looks like with the added COPA, it costs me about $.23677 per kilowatt hour.

Here is my gas bill for last month. Gas is normally not too bad.

 

[phill]

Thanks for all the replies guys It's nice to have a bit of chatter in the threads

Is there anyone other than @weekendgeek who might be 'throwing in the towel' for crunching due to rising costs?

 

[freeagent]

erhaps globalization has reached its tentacles even in places I could not imagine...

Yes, it puts the global in globalization

In my province we generate so much power, that we sell a ton of it to the states. But yet through mismanagement we found ourselves here. Manitoba Hydro reported more people are in arrears this year than last.. well yeah no shit. Looks like we are all being bent over. 425 Beefeater bucks.. yikes.. not envious!

 

[phill]

@freeagent - do you have Solar panels or anything like that at all for your home?

 

[freeagent]

@freeagent - do you have Solar panels or anything like that at all for your home?

Negatory

I might have to look into something like that though.. I do know one person here in the city who uses them at home and the cabin. But he lives on the outskirts of the city and has 20 acres Mr. Moneybags. He is a pretty clever fellow, and I used to work for him.

 

[phill]

I do believe they have become a rather sort after part to a home now... All I need now is a bigger array and a bit more sun, we'd be on a winner!!

 

[trog100]

I do believe they have become a rather sort after part to a home now... All I need now is a bigger array and a bit more sun, we'd be on a winner!!

i think energy of all sort is going to be in short supply for quite some time phill.. it just cost me £110 quid to fill my trucks diesel tank up yesterday.. ouch..

as for solar it will take a few years for me to get my return on investment back.. its not a short term thing.. having said that it does provide a nice back up if the grid goes down which is worth something..

trog

 

[tabascosauz]

Here is last month's electric bill:
Looks like with the added COPA, it costs me about $.23677 per kilowatt hour.

Here is my gas bill for last month. Gas is normally not too bad.

Interesting. I looked at mine and it's generally $0.10/kwh I think. It's some complex rate where it increases past 1600kWh per two months or something, but only to $0.15. 91% hydro or something. I'll have to bring up last month's bill and work it out.

I'm glad I live here - gas is $1.89 and diesel $2.19 right now running an EV is a lifesaver on $0.10 rates.

I was thinking of getting back into folding after seeing the recent team Ukraine thread, but sadly the grid is still really spotty these past 3 years if the power goes out when running F@H, my UPS will probably implode. When I used to fold 8 years ago power was better on UBC campus, not so much now kinda out in the sticks

Negatory

I might have to look into something like that though.. I do know one person here in the city who uses them at home and the cabin. But he lives on the outskirts of the city and has 20 acres Mr. Moneybags. He is a pretty clever fellow, and I used to work for him.

Gotta leverage the advantage you have I'd have better luck making a mini hydro dam in my roof gutter with the 366 days of rain I get

 

[Outback Bronze]

G'day Phill,
Im on $0.26 AUD per KW with a $0.95 daily charge.
Not sure what my gas is but the bill was about $180 AUD for 3 months.
Water can be the killer here where I live in Perth if you want nice green grass.
You asked why they put the daily charge up. They know you can try and save power here and there and put solar up etc that can cut costs.
You can't save nothing if they put up the daily charge. Its a sneaky way for them to make more money.
Cheers.

 

[phill]

Yeah if they can't make the cash from somewhere, they'll find another place to grab it from It's a real damn shame... I would like to think that when all the shortages go, things will change but I really don't believe they will which is a crying shame...

Thanks to everyone for posting in the thread It's really great getting the feedback from other forum members about what they have or how they do these things

 

[cvaldes]

It's important to note that participating in these crunching/folding efforts, you're not really donating computing assets, you're really donating electricity.

This is nothing new, it's been the same since the birth of distributed computing, like SETI@Home efforts from the Nineties.

The world has plenty of computing muscle, what it doesn't have is enough free electricity.

At least from the viewpoint of an American filing taxes, you are better off donating cash or fully appreciated negotiable securities to a charity rather than crunching/folding on your own PC.

Charities/larger organizations can buy resources at a far more advantageous price (computer gear, electricity, real estate, whatever) than an individual dealing with retail pricing.

And for the American Joe Consumer, at least a donation of cash/negotiable securities can be claimed as an income tax deduction. If you donate CPU cycles with your personal computer, you can't claim any of that. You are basically donating electricity at retail prices running on semiconductors paid at retail.

This is the same myopic behavior of retail cryptocurrency miners. They are better off buying crypto on the open market rather than spending money on electricity to mine it.

Rich people buy ETH on the open market, like buying cotton futures. Peasants mine it on their $1000 GPUs, like buying tractors, real estate, and fertilizer for their cotton fields.

Even if you had a solar array feeding excess power back into the grid, you're better off doing that rather than taking that "excess" power and mining/crunching/folding. The best thing consumers can do is to reduce overall usage.

The scientific organizations who run the research should be paying consumers to run distributed computing software if they run out of processing power. But that's not the case, they have plenty of CPUs, they just don't have the electricity budget. If Organization X wants to look for a cure, they should put CPUs in a place where electricity is very, Very, VERY cheap. And that's not in the typical suburban/urban Western Hemisphere.

Yeah, sure, you might think you are doing some benefit by crunching/folding on your home system but you are better off taking that money and donating it to a properly managed charity.

 

[80-watt Hamster]

It's important to note that participating in these crunching/folding efforts, you're not really donating computing assets, you're really donating electricity.

This is nothing new, it's been the same since the birth of distributed computing, like SETI@Home efforts from the Nineties.

The world has plenty of computing muscle, what it doesn't have is enough free electricity.

At least from the viewpoint of an American filing taxes, you are better off donating cash or fully appreciated negotiable securities to a charity rather than crunching/folding on your own PC.

Charities/larger organizations can buy resources at a far more advantageous price (computer gear, electricity, real estate, whatever) than an individual dealing with retail pricing.

And for the American Joe Consumer, at least a donation of cash/negotiable securities can be claimed as an income tax deduction. If you donate CPU cycles with your personal computer, you can't claim any of that. You are basically donating electricity at retail prices running on semiconductors paid at retail.

This is the same myopic behavior of retail cryptocurrency miners. They are better off buying crypto on the open market rather than spending money on electricity to mine it.

Rich people buy ETH on the open market, like buying cotton futures. Peasants mine it on their $1000 GPUs, like buying tractors, real estate, and fertilizer for their cotton fields.

Even if you had a solar array feeding excess power back into the grid, you're better off doing that rather than taking that "excess" power and mining/crunching/folding. The best thing consumers can do is to reduce overall usage.

The scientific organizations who run the research should be paying consumers to run distributed computing software if they run out of processing power. But that's not the case, they have plenty of CPUs, they just don't have the electricity budget. If Organization X wants to look for a cure, they should put CPUs in a place where electricity is very, Very, VERY cheap. And that's not in the typical suburban/urban Western Hemisphere.

Yeah, sure, you might think you are doing some benefit by crunching/folding on your home system but you are better off taking that money and donating it to a properly managed charity.

Maybe, but that won't keep my bedroom and office warm in the winter.

 

[phill]

Well thought I'd post in this thread again after I found it again......

UK electric and gas prices are set to rise about 80% over what they currently are, so we'll be seeing prices rise for a typical usage up to £3700 a year compared to the £1970 last few months and then around the £1200 mark before hand...

I've seen some links and sites mention that this could hit £8000 a year...
I might not be crunching all that much soon guys and gals.....

 

[80-watt Hamster]

Well thought I'd post in this thread again after I found it again......

UK electric and gas prices are set to rise about 80% over what they currently are, so we'll be seeing prices rise for a typical usage up to £3700 a year compared to the £1970 last few months and then around the £1200 mark before hand...

I've seen some links and sites mention that this could hit £8000 a year...
I might not be crunching all that much soon guys and gals.....

Jeebus cripes, that's bananas.

 

[dgianstefani]

We screwed ourselves by not setting policy based on science, but on popular politics instead.

Bye bye chance for energy independence.

Hello uncontrolled energy cost increases.

Stares wistfully at the nuclear power that could have been...

 

[trog100]

Well thought I'd post in this thread again after I found it again......

UK electric and gas prices are set to rise about 80% over what they currently are, so we'll be seeing prices rise for a typical usage up to £3700 a year compared to the £1970 last few months and then around the £1200 mark before hand...

I've seen some links and sites mention that this could hit £8000 a year...
I might not be crunching all that much soon guys and gals.....

its looking bad phil.. real bad.. Scottish power have already upped my monthly direct debits to over £500 quid a month..

it seems they can charge what they like irrespective of a customers ability or agreement to pay.. its a weird situation..

what i find wrong is the fact they can just do it.. whack the bills up to whatever they see fit with the customer having no say in the issue.. the customer cant say no..

trog

 

[Outback Bronze]

Well thought I'd post in this thread again after I found it again......

UK electric and gas prices are set to rise about 80% over what they currently are, so we'll be seeing prices rise for a typical usage up to £3700 a year compared to the £1970 last few months and then around the £1200 mark before hand...

I've seen some links and sites mention that this could hit £8000 a year...
I might not be crunching all that much soon guys and gals.....

That's bloody crazy Phil. My electricity bill went up .06c AUD and the supply charge up 0.025c.

I don't think my increased charges are going to break the bank but what the hell is with yours hey?

 

[trog100]

That's bloody crazy Phil. My electricity bill went up .06c AUD and the supply charge up 0.025c.

I don't think my increased charges are going to break the bank but what the hell is with yours hey?

its connected to the Ukraine situation and western sanctions imposed on russia.. basically the price of wholesale gas has gone through the roof and is likely to remain this way for quite some time.. UK electricity is mostly produced by burning gas a lot of this gas comes from russia.. or should i say did do.. he he..

trog

 

[Frick]

That's bloody crazy Phil. My electricity bill went up .06c AUD and the supply charge up 0.025c.

I don't think my increased charges are going to break the bank but what the hell is with yours hey?

To add to the post above, Germany (and maybe other nations) have been basically replacing their nuclear plants (and maybe coal plants?) with gas plants, and wind farms. Burning gas is better than burning coal, and there has been strong pushes against nuclear for a long time. It worked ok until they couldn't buy gas anymore. This winter will be truly chaotic for big chunks of Europe. Droughts + inflation + power shortages + skyrockering power prices is a really bad combo, even worse if the winter is colder than avarage. Personally I live in an area with abundant renewables (hydro+wind), so we are a massive exporter of power, meaning significantly lower prices than in the south of Sweden, not to mention the rest of Europe.

 

[trog100]

To add to the post above, Germany (and maybe other nations) have been basically replacing their nuclear plants (and maybe coal plants?) with gas plants, and wind farms. Burning gas is better than burning coal, and there has been strong pushes against nuclear for a long time. It worked ok until they couldn't buy gas anymore. This winter will be truly chaotic for big chunks of Europe. Droughts + inflation + power shortages + skyrockering power prices is a really bad combo, even worse if the winter is colder than avarage. Personally I live in an area with abundant renewables (hydro+wind), so we are a massive exporter of power, meaning significantly lower prices than in the south of Sweden, not to mention the rest of Europe.

the thing is and i could be wrong here.. it all gets bunged into a huge wholesale market and its this market that dictates the price.. users will have to pay the going rate..

trog