Electric costs to run the crunchers and folding PCs....

[phill]

It seems to me that recently everywhere and everyone is going to be affected by the increases in costs of electric.. I thought I'd share mine currently (its not showing what it will be, but I'll try to dig that out and update the post with it

So, currently electric and gas costs -

And here we are with the new costs -

They are putting up my monthly bill as I pay direct debit and so on, from £180 to £265... I've started to use less as if the solar isn't producing then things don't go on for the folding.. I mean, running this 5950X RTX 3090 it'll chew through around 550w no problems when folding (no crunching...) and that's without power limiting the GPU as well, so stock settings ... I think idling whilst I'm typing this, I can see it pulling about the 175w or so... Thank god for my mini PC.. That pulls 6 to 12w when in use !!

Here's something I did just to see what the differences would be costing me...

So just for reference...

321 was how many electric units I used during Feburary (I believe it was 1st to the 28th??) so first 3 calculators are the current prices, then the newer prices, then the difference in cost, so nearly 40% increase, that was just for electric, never bothered with gas as that's a little harder to work out but not impossible....

If anyone else wishes to share or anything, please post away Just thought I would and if I see tumble weeds in the thread, I can always delete it And apologies as always, but wasn't sure if to put it in FAH or WCG threads.....??

 

[Dr_b_]

What is meant by Standing Charge?

 

[phill]

Standing charge is something they charge us over in the UK (I presume else where also??) for the 'use' of the cables/pipes in the ground connected to the property... God only knows why they are doubling it for the electric and then only adding on 1.1p a day for the gas.. Heaven only knows.... I've never understood that charge.....

 

[ThaiTaffy]

Yikes Phil glad I'm not in blighty now. They have you by the balls there really, the UK doesn't get enough sunshine to show the true possibilities of solar.
I'm currently thinking very hard about swapping my servers and network gear over to DC-DC power supplies and running it all off solar.
Not only to save costs but also the grid here isn't what you would call stable and as the weather starts to enter it's extreme months here, power cuts will be a regular occurrence (too rainy= power cut, too hot= power cut) don't really want to deal with that especially since 70% of the house is run via my server now (lights, air-conditioning, CCTV and so on all goes to the sever for control).

Although it's still nothing compared to the west, utilities and commodities are on the rise here fuel is almost at £1 a litre(doubled in the past few years) same for electricity bills.

My only worry is batteries, and the sheer mass of them I would need to run the house totally off grid.

 

[Vayra86]

Here's the Dutch tariffs for me... I always change my contract after winter so I never get surprised if Winter is Coming and/or if shit happens like it did just now and has done a few times before. Except not to these extremes. Man am I happy for playing this market that way... I think I just saved 1500 euro this winter compared to variable tariffs by just having the contract end anywhere through december > today...

We have fixed costs as well but I'm just going to give the rough indication as the government is also still stepping in with more cost reduction measures (reduced energy tax etc.), but they likely won't touch price per unit a lot:

Current tariff electric rounds off to €0,23/kWh.
New tariff (since feb'22, I'm getting it 3rd of April): €0,61/kWh
But.... solar panels... I get the exact same amount back for production... the car charges on my meter and I get that back too on my bank account, so net usage is down to about 5 euro per month (it was this year). This stuff really pays off now as I get my daily usage from the panels too.

As for running the house off grid... I don't think its the best way forward. Energy has always been about a smart mix, that will likely intensify further, become more of a mesh network with every home on a battery to add to balancing the load. You already have the power lines, so why not use them. What we see in NL is that there is lots of excess energy but transport is an issue and we have the energy at the wrong moments in time each day. All you really need is a way to store excess energy on a larger scale. And when you know how much excess energy there is, you can start producing/importing less in places like coal plants and gas terminals. Excess energy also implies that hydrogen energy as a storage medium becomes feasible, yes you need more energy to create it, but when its there, why not, and then you won't need the batteries. Hydrogen is fully scalable.

Gas is hilarious if it wasn't so horrible. Current: €0,69/m3
New: €2,27/m3

At least we can welcome a LOT of graphics cards in the second hand market soon... I'm just trying to see the upsides here
Another upside: the ROI of 'green' improvements to your home is shortened by a number of years. We're definitely going to get a budget to build/renovate soon.

 

[Space Lynx]

It seems to me that recently everywhere and everyone is going to be affected by the increases in costs of electric.. I thought I'd share mine currently (its not showing what it will be, but I'll try to dig that out and update the post with it

So, currently electric and gas costs -

View attachment 240682

And here we are with the new costs -

View attachment 240683

They are putting up my monthly bill as I pay direct debit and so on, from £180 to £265... I've started to use less as if the solar isn't producing then things don't go on for the folding.. I mean, running this 5950X RTX 3090 it'll chew through around 550w no problems when folding (no crunching...) and that's without power limiting the GPU as well, so stock settings ... I think idling whilst I'm typing this, I can see it pulling about the 175w or so... Thank god for my mini PC.. That pulls 6 to 12w when in use !!

Here's something I did just to see what the differences would be costing me...

View attachment 240685

So just for reference...

321 was how many electric units I used during Feburary (I believe it was 1st to the 28th??) so first 3 calculators are the current prices, then the newer prices, then the difference in cost, so nearly 40% increase, that was just for electric, never bothered with gas as that's a little harder to work out but not impossible....

If anyone else wishes to share or anything, please post away Just thought I would and if I see tumble weeds in the thread, I can always delete it And apologies as always, but wasn't sure if to put it in FAH or WCG threads.....??

you can thank the miners. supply and demand. crypto is ruining the world.

 

[phill]

you can thank the miners. supply and demand. crypto is ruining the world.

I think we are way beyond that right now... I think personally, this is a whole new level of stupid.... I'll leave the post there but please, no more....

But still...

Yikes Phil glad I'm not in blighty now. They have you by the balls there really, the UK doesn't get enough sunshine to show the true possibilities of solar.
I'm currently thinking very hard about swapping my servers and network gear over to DC-DC power supplies and running it all off solar.
Not only to save costs but also the grid here isn't what you would call stable and as the weather starts to enter it's extreme months here, power cuts will be a regular occurrence (too rainy= power cut, too hot= power cut) don't really want to deal with that especially since 70% of the house is run via my server now (lights, air-conditioning, CCTV and so on all goes to the sever for control).

Although it's still nothing compared to the west, utilities and commodities are on the rise here fuel is almost at £1 a litre(doubled in the past few years) same for electricity bills.

My only worry is batteries, and the sheer mass of them I would need to run the house totally off grid.

Oh you should see some of the fixed tariffs, I've seen one for gas and electric for an average user - £500 or so a month... Just for gas and electric?? May as well start living in a box.... At least you'll have free air con....

 

[phill]

I've said nothing about anyone being stupid, but I don't believe as most of the crypto is actually down when I last looked that its still as much of an issue as it once was. The profitablity, the difficulty, the pay back, its all gone up and its not helping anyone.
I'm sure as the sky is somewhat blue today, that someone will be caught 'stealing' electric and all the rest of it to help with their mining and all the rest of it, but this thread had nothing to do with mining or any theories in why its going up. It was purely a here's my electric prices, this is what I'm having to pay for my crunching and folding to try and help people. Mining and Ukraine simply has no real place in the thread at all.

 

[Tatty_Two]

Apparently the global shortage of natural gas, aside from the current conflict is because there was not enough wind/solar in the world last year so much less wind energy, that in turn increases electricity demand as it is used to produce the gas, as Phill says, next month energy prices in the UK will have doubled in a year, this explains it better than I could ......................

What caused the gas crisis?​

Natural gas prices have soared to record highs in Europe because of tight supplies ahead of winter. In August alone, they rose by more than 70 per cent, pushing some smaller energy suppliers and industrial firms out of business.

A prolonged cold winter over 2020-2021 that drained natural gas storage raised concerns about supplies.

Though storage would usually be refilled during summer months when demand is slow, it has not happened at its normal pace in 2021.

Lower solar and wind output is another factor in the price hike. With the UK and Europe phasing out coal plants in recent years, less windy weather in recent months has lowered their contribution to the grid, meaning that demand for natural gas has increased.

Russia has been sending less gas to Europe, with exports this year dropping to around one-fifth of pre-pandemic levels despite a rebound in demand and low stockpiles in the continent.
While some believe the country curbed its foreign supply in order to refill its own storage, others believe it is trying to pressure European governments into approving its controversial Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline.

 

[Space Lynx]

Apparently the global shortage of natural gas, aside from the current conflict is because there was not enough wind/solar in the world last year so much less wind energy, that in turn increases electricity demand as it is used to produce the gas, as Phill says, next month energy prices in the UK will have doubled in a year, this explains it better than I could ......................

What caused the gas crisis?​

Natural gas prices have soared to record highs in Europe because of tight supplies ahead of winter. In August alone, they rose by more than 70 per cent, pushing some smaller energy suppliers and industrial firms out of business.

A prolonged cold winter over 2020-2021 that drained natural gas storage raised concerns about supplies.

Though storage would usually be refilled during summer months when demand is slow, it has not happened at its normal pace in 2021.

Lower solar and wind output is another factor in the price hike. With the UK and Europe phasing out coal plants in recent years, less windy weather in recent months has lowered their contribution to the grid, meaning that demand for natural gas has increased.

Russia has been sending less gas to Europe, with exports this year dropping to around one-fifth of pre-pandemic levels despite a rebound in demand and low stockpiles in the continent.
While some believe the country curbed its foreign supply in order to refill its own storage, others believe it is trying to pressure European governments into approving its controversial Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline.

Let's hope Bill Gates new nuclear power plant in Wyoming works well, so others will adopt it, its long time overdue for gas to be retired.

 

[phill]

Apparently the global shortage of natural gas, aside from the current conflict is because there was not enough wind/solar in the world last year so much less wind energy, that in turn increases electricity demand as it is used to produce the gas, as Phill says, next month energy prices in the UK will have doubled in a year, this explains it better than I could ......................

What caused the gas crisis?​

Natural gas prices have soared to record highs in Europe because of tight supplies ahead of winter. In August alone, they rose by more than 70 per cent, pushing some smaller energy suppliers and industrial firms out of business.

A prolonged cold winter over 2020-2021 that drained natural gas storage raised concerns about supplies.

Though storage would usually be refilled during summer months when demand is slow, it has not happened at its normal pace in 2021.

Lower solar and wind output is another factor in the price hike. With the UK and Europe phasing out coal plants in recent years, less windy weather in recent months has lowered their contribution to the grid, meaning that demand for natural gas has increased.

Russia has been sending less gas to Europe, with exports this year dropping to around one-fifth of pre-pandemic levels despite a rebound in demand and low stockpiles in the continent.
While some believe the country curbed its foreign supply in order to refill its own storage, others believe it is trying to pressure European governments into approving its controversial Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline.

Also from what I read @Tatty_One is that we hardly rely on Russia and Ukraine for the gas supply (if what I have been reading is correct, it says about 3% for the UK) but again it wasn't really much of a I'm digging into why things are going up, I'm just going with the, here's the prices, what are yours like type situ I've had to cut back, I can't and don't wish to spend out £300 on electric and gas bills each month. Things for me have had to change.

 

[Space Lynx]

Also from what I read @Tatty_One is that we hardly rely on Russia and Ukraine for the gas supply (if what I have been reading is correct, it says about 3% for the UK) but again it wasn't really much of a I'm digging into why things are going up, I'm just going with the, here's the prices, what are yours like type situ I've had to cut back, I can't and don't wish to spend out £300 on electric and gas bills each month. Things for me have had to change.

Russia's direct supply to USA or UK is irrelevant, it is globalized economy, OPEC+ sets all the prices regardless of who imports what from who - so if Russia sends 30% oil to some other country, well thats hurts everyone in the system of trade, its the danger of a globalized economy becoming to intertwined, and we are seeing that now. Some trade is good, but too much is not, as we are now seeing. Should instead be a healthy balance of sovereign sustainability (nuclear/wind/solar) and trade, politicians get a nice boost of ego inflation when they are rubbin shoulders at a world stage level, which is why globalization got out of hand to begin with, and lost its balance. Ego blinds all men, which is why the ancient philosophers were much smarter than we give them credit for, they knew how to dampen ego, for they knew how dangerous it could be.

 

[phill]

We are definitely too reliant on other countries for much more than we should be, but again, we seem to be going off course a little for the point of the thread

Its frustrating for everyone not being able to do what they where used to and such, but as always times change and things move on, for better or worse. Now its just a case of seeing what the outcome is Hopefully, we'll be 'back to normal' sooner rather than later... Whatever normal is nowadays....

So everyone, electric (not so much gas prices....) how are you all affected with the levels of Crunching and Folding you can do??

 

[Tatty_Two]

Russia's direct supply to USA or UK is irrelevant, it is globalized economy, OPEC+ sets all the prices regardless of who imports what from who - so if Russia sends 30% oil to some other country, well thats hurts everyone in the system of trade, its the danger of a globalized economy becoming to intertwined, and we are seeing that now. Some trade is good, but too much is not, as we are now seeing. Should instead be a healthy balance of sovereign sustainability (nuclear/wind/solar) and trade, politicians get a nice boost of ego inflation when they are rubbin shoulders at a world stage level, which is why globalization got out of hand to begin with, and lost its balance. Ego blinds all men, which is why the ancient philosophers were much smarter than we give them credit for, they knew how to dampen ego, for they knew how dangerous it could be.

We are in danger of venturing off topic here as this thread is energy prices and their relation to Folding costs and I am partly to blame for that but OPEC sets global crude prices, not natural gas/electricity where in contrast to oil tends not to have a global but a regional price.

 

[Space Lynx]

We are in danger of venturing off topic here as this thread is energy prices and their relation to Folding costs and I am partly to blame for that but OPEC sets global crude prices, not natural gas/electricity where in contrast to oil tends not to have a global but a regional price.

it's all connected though due to trade routes from Russia and those two being major players in their trade line up, that's all I was trying to point out in a general sense

 

[trog100]

i think i am looking at around £400 a month for my electricity bills from now on.. i am using around 2kw per hour running mining rigs i think i will keep running them even though current profitability is very low..

i do have maybe 8K per day of solar power coming in when the sun shines.. this should go up during the summer months..

the cost of energy is going to be a problem..

trog

 

[phill]

i think i am looking at around £400 a month for my electricity bills from now on.. i am using around 2kw per hour running mining rigs i think i will keep running them even though current profitability is very low..

i do have maybe 8K per day of solar power coming in when the sun shines.. this should go up during the summer months..

the cost of energy is going to be a problem..

trog

I remember those days well.. Stopped back in June/July last year because the profitability went down and it was costing too much to run for the profit. We did a check from my mates prices to the ones I was paying, it was something like 60% profit for me, compared to 500% or so profit for him. Yeah, not going to take cash out to cover that sort of difference!!
Even with solar the hit on the electric is heavy, more so winter/spring months.

What size array do you have @trog100 ??

 

[trog100]

I remember those days well.. Stopped back in June/July last year because the profitability went down and it was costing too much to run for the profit. We did a check from my mates prices to the ones I was paying, it was something like 60% profit for me, compared to 500% or so profit for him. Yeah, not going to take cash out to cover that sort of difference!!
Even with solar the hit on the electric is heavy, more so winter/spring months.

What size array do you have @trog100 ??

i have 20 x 150 watt panels on two of my garden sheds.. these feed into 8 x 100ah lithium batteries which feed a 3000 watt inverter.. currently (mid march) when the sun is shining i am seeing about 1400 watts going into the battery bank.. over say six hours this would be 8400 watts..

trog

 

[phill]

i have 20 x 150 watt panels on two of my garden sheds.. these feed into 8 x 100ah lithium batteries which feed a 3000 watt inverter.. currently (mid march) when the sun is shining i am seeing about 1400 watts going into the battery bank.. over say six hours this would be 8400 watts..

trog

Very nice mate Must help with the PCs being on all the time I've 123 x 305w panels and a 4kW array for the house, couldn't fit any more on the roof and bought it back in June (ish) 2017. Best thing I've ever done for the house. Play my cards right, from about 10pm till 8 to 9am, I can use about 2kW, which isn't so bad Doesn't quite give me the need for batteries though, not yet

I'm hoping to see my payments drop if I'm honest now we are starting to get the better weather.....

 

[80-watt Hamster]

I haven't been watching my energy bill all that closely; perhaps it's time to do so.

EDIT:

Month	Electric $/KWh	Gas $/unit
2021-02	0.116	0.510
2022-02	0.119	1.022

So holding steady on electric (maybe because I don't think we have many gas-fired plants in the US?), but 2X on gas. I'm fortunate enough to be in the northern hemisphere, and that my only gas appliance is the furnace, so my costs will normalize as the weather warms.

 

[ThaiTaffy]

I haven't been watching my energy bill all that closely; perhaps it's time to do so.

I have a homemade extremely accurate meter fitted at the house and I can tell you that it doesn't help much switch off a light here a fan there, your gonna use juice no matter what your better watching the products you buy and try to get the most energy efficient.

 

[Deleted member 202104]

Here's current prices for where I live.

When I was crunching, I was using about 430 kWh per month for the three PCs. Each had a draw under load of roughly 200w. WCG alone blew through my baseline amount (Tier 1).

I do have solar, but for the last two years I've produced less due to wildfires in the area that literally blocked out the sun for almost two months each year.

Between energy costs, and the fact that WCG doesn't seem to think their work is critical enough that a 2+ month downtime to move some servers is a big deal, crunching is over for me.

 

[freeagent]

I don’t have the numbers in front of me as I am at the shop, but it did go up significantly, with another bump coming soon, as well as another carbon tax bump. Not only has hydro gone up, food and everything else has as well.

Sad days ahead

 

[R-T-B]

Yep even here in the Pacific Northwest energy costs are up. Even cheap hydro land is feeling it.

 

[80-watt Hamster]

Between energy costs, and the fact that WCG doesn't seem to think their work is critical enough that a 2+ month downtime to move some servers is a big deal, crunching is over for me.

That's a very uncharitable way of looking at it. We have no way of knowing what kind of resources are available to them.