Please help me choose a 650W PSU - Seasonic Focus GM gold vs Seasonic Focus GX gold vs FSP Pro Dagger Gold SFX

[martinceld]

I am not too familiar with PSUs so I could use some advice on choosing one. These 3 are my main options based on budget and availability. They are all roughly around the same price range (the difference between the cheapest and priciest among these is roughly $7.20) so I just want to go with that is best for my build.

1. SEASONIC FOCUS GM-650 GOLD 650WATTS 80+ SEMI MODULAR PSU SSR-650FM

https://dynaquestpc.com/collections...ocus-gold-650fm-650watts-80-gold-semi-modular

2. SEASONIC FOCUS GX-650 GOLD 650WATTS 80+ FULL MODULAR PSU SSR-650FX

https://dynaquestpc.com/collections...ic-focus-gx-650-650watts-80-gold-full-modular

3. FSP DAGGER PRO GOLD SFX 650W 80+ FULL MODULAR PSU SDA2-650

https://dynaquestpc.com/collections...-dagger-pro-gold-sfx-650w-80-full-modular-psu

I will be running a Ryzen 7 5700x and Gigabyte GAMING OC Radeon RX 6750 XT 12 GB

https://ph.pcpartpicker.com/list/LvfwMb

Thank you!

 

[Shou Miko]

Usually you can never go wrong with a Seasonic.

 

[jonUK76]

If it was me, the Focus GX-650. It's got a longer warranty (10 yrs) and higher spec than the GM so for the price difference, it's probably worth the small extra. Here's a review of a PSU with the same internals, which should be very close to this - https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/phanteks-amp-series-650w-power-supply-review

The FSP supply looks interesting if you need a small form factor PSU, but I think I'd prefer the full size Seasonic.

 

[martinceld]

Usually you can never go wrong with a Seasonic.

If it was me, the Focus GX-650. It's got a longer warranty (10 yrs) and higher spec than the GM so for the price difference, it's probably worth the small extra. Here's a review of a PSU with the same internals, which should be very close to this - https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/phanteks-amp-series-650w-power-supply-review

The FSP supply looks interesting if you need a small form factor PSU, but I think I'd prefer the full size Seasonic.

Thank you for the feedback!

 

[dirtyferret]

the FSP is an SFX standard size PSU if you need that specific size

otherwise the seasonic GX is the better unit among the three very good units

 

[AsRock]

Seasonic (US), not that there is any thing wrong with FSP the seasonic (US) tend to have good warranty's and last time i had to deal with a failing PSU from them they were very efficient on getting me a replacement.

 

[Bill_Bright]

I'm actually NOT a huge fan of modular supplies. Yes, they can make for a tidier appearance inside a case. But every cable that is directly connected to the PSU's internal circuit board eliminates 2 extra solder joints, 2 connector parts (pin and socket) and 1 physical connection (between the pin and socket). Those are all additional potential points of failure.

Therefore, since the main 24/20 pin power, and 8-pin ATX/CPU cables will always be used, I have no problem with them being wired.

I would search the professional review sites and look for any red flags. These are quality brands so I would not expect any, but you never know until you look.

One red flag often overlooked is Hold-up time failure. The ATX Form Factor standard requires all ATX PSU to "hold up" (maintain output) for a minimum of 17ms should the input (mains) power drop below 90/180VAC (with 115/230VAC). Sadly, not all review sites test for this - yet some otherwise highly rated supplies fail this crucial test - some miserably.

This is a crucial requirement because a total loss, or just a drop (dip - opposite of spike, or sag - opposite of surge) in power of just 15ms, for example, is plenty long to cause the computer to suddenly crash, but still be so fast that we (as mere humans) do not "see" the drop (typically as "flickers" in the lights). A supply that meets or exceeds that Hold-up time spec would maintain output, and keep the computer running. That's a very good thing.

Note, these sudden dips and sags in power are NOT uncommon, even where grids are considered stable. This is why all computers should be supported by a "good" UPS with AVR. But that's for a different discussion.

@martinceld - So, to answer your question, I would go for the Seasonic with the best warranty and price. Otherwise, as dirtyferret correctly noted, the FSB is a "SFX" Form Factor supply. Your case may not support its smaller size (the mounting holes may not align). Plus, being a smaller SFX supply, it has a smaller (92mm) fan and thus may need to spin faster (thus LOUDER) to keep the supply properly cooled. As someone who really hates fan noise, that would be a showstopper for me.

 

[dirtyferret]

I'm actually NOT a huge fan of modular supplies.

agreed, not to take the thread OT, but to me personally modular, semi-modular, or fully connected cables is not a big deal. With the marker being the way it is, you need to offer modular cables in order to compete in sales in all but the most basic and budget units but 1) most cases have a PSU compartment that hides the unit anyways and 2) it's not that hard to zip tie cables and set them aside 3) I now have to hold onto unused cables, store them, and hope to remember where I put them if I need them again.

One red flag often overlooked is Hold-up time failure.

FSP tends to hang their hat on hold up time, not that seasoinic is a slouch in that area

Sadly, not all review sites test for this - yet some otherwise highly rated supplies fail this crucial test - some miserably.

hold up time was often debated back in the old JG forums with half the posters saying it was important the other half stating it was an often misconstrued in its importance. I'm not saying one side over the other was right just that it was always an interesting and thought provoking debate.

 

[Regeneration]

Get the GX since its fully modular, gold rated, reliable PSU.

 

[dirtyferret]

Get the GX since its fully modular, gold rated, reliable PSU.

the FSP matches all three descriptions and as does the seasonic GM since virtually everyone will be using the only two hardwired cables, 24-pin & 8-pin CPU

 

[Bill_Bright]

I now have to hold onto unused cables, store them, and hope to remember where I put them if I need them again.

Not just that. Sadly, there is no industry standard for the PSU side of those cables. And because most PSU brands are really rebranded supplies from different OEM manufacturers, even within the same brand, the cables may not be compatible.

This means not only do you have to hold on to and store those unused cables, you have to keep them separate for each and every different PSU you are responsible for. I have seen users who, to prevent losing cables, or getting them mixed up, put the unused cables in a ziplock bag, then storing the bag in the bottom of the case. That pretty much defeats the two main advantages for having modular cables (aesthetics and dust/cooling management).

Personally, as an old time tech, I appreciate the aesthetics of a case interior where the user has taken the time to properly address cable management in the way they router and tie back excess cables. But that's me.

Holdup time definitely matters. The problem with the argument of those who say it is not important is ignorance. Not ignorant people, just people being ignorant of the facts (assuming there's a difference).

Because a 15ms drop in power may cause a sudden, unexpected computer crash without us humans being able to actually sense ("see") any evidence of a power drop, we (they) frequently don't associate the problem to the power grid or the PSU, or anything to do with power. They think it is just a fluke, unexplained and/or something else besides the PSU failing to do its job.

I say, if the requirement was not important, the ATX Form Factor consortium of companies (led by Intel) who created and maintains the standard would have modified or eliminated the requirement - just as they have with many other requirements over the years. But the minimum of 17ms standard has remained, in tact - and for a very good reason.

 

[Shrek]

I tend to agree about modular having their disadvantages.

 

[dirtyferret]

Holdup time definitely matters. The problem with the argument of those who say it is not important is ignorance

most of the discussion (back in the day) wasn't so much that it was not important as everyone agreed it was but rather is 15ms vs 17ms that much of a difference? Is 17ms even enough especially in commercial and industrial settings? Is sacrificing some potential in efficiency in using larger bulk caps (as opposed to smaller caps) to hit that 17ms worth it vs potentially impacting a review score? Is the cost worth it from a business practice making your PSU more expensive than the competitors? I'm not picking one side over the other just stating some of the discussion from what I recall off the top of my head but like I said it was never a discussion of hold up time not being important just its rank of importance vs need and desire of the individual user.

Sadly, not all review sites test for this

not everyone has the (expensive) equipment for it and if not done properly one can damage their equipment testing it

 

[Shrek]

is 15ms vs 17ms that much of a difference?

The mains is 60 Hz so one period is 16.7 ms

If one wants more just derate the supply (buy one with more power than one is going to use)

 

[Bill_Bright]

15ms vs 17ms that much of a difference? Is 17ms even enough especially in commercial and industrial settings?

Well, 15ms was just my somewhat arbitrary example. But yes, the difference between 15ms and 17ms could easily be the difference between a sudden system crash, loss of data, and OS corruption vs. everything purring along just fine.

I note too back in the day, and still today for that matter, cutover times for UPS took about 10 - 12ms, or less. So 17ms seemed plenty.

The mains is 60 Hz so one period is 16.7 ms

I don't know if that was a determining factor. It could have been but if so, since much of the world uses 50Hz, and ATX is an international industry standard, why not 20ms (1000/50 = 20ms)?

 

[Shrek]

When rectifying, one is effectively riding the wave top, so is without power for half a period (10 ms for 50Hz people); one needs a bit extra and 15 ms seems to be cutting it a bit close.

There is also the counter argument that if one has too much smoothing capacitance, one is then charging over a smaller angle and so a larger current; but since heating losses go like I^2 this results in more heating.

 

[Bill_Bright]

and 15 ms seems to be cutting it a bit close.

Once again, 15ms was just an arbitrary number "I" picked to illustrate a point. I could have easily picked 12ms or 14ms or even 16ms.

NOTHING in the standards says anything about 15ms. The standard only says a minimum of 17ms.

So everyone needs to forget about 15ms.

 

[jonUK76]

Regarding the SFX form factor, some ATX cases will accept them by default, and if not ATX adapter plates are easily available (and sometimes supplied in the box with the PSU). One issue that could be overlooked though is that as they are generally used in Small Form Factor builds, the cables on them may be shorter than normal for ATX - which could complicate cable management, or mean you have to use extensions.

Overall if you want an easy life, I'd just stick to ATX form factor PSU in a full size ATX build, unless you have a good reason for using a SFF power supply. They could be useful in builds using very compact cases that do take an ATX PSU, but where things are very cramped, as they are smaller in all dimensions.

 

[martinceld]

If it was me, the Focus GX-650. It's got a longer warranty (10 yrs) and higher spec than the GM so for the price difference, it's probably worth the small extra. Here's a review of a PSU with the same internals, which should be very close to this - https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/phanteks-amp-series-650w-power-supply-review

The FSP supply looks interesting if you need a small form factor PSU, but I think I'd prefer the full size Seasonic.

the FSP is an SFX standard size PSU if you need that specific size

otherwise the seasonic GX is the better unit among the three very good units

Seasonic (US), not that there is any thing wrong with FSP the seasonic (US) tend to have good warranty's and last time i had to deal with a failing PSU from them they were very efficient on getting me a replacement.

I'm actually NOT a huge fan of modular supplies. Yes, they can make for a tidier appearance inside a case. But every cable that is directly connected to the PSU's internal circuit board eliminates 2 extra solder joints, 2 connector parts (pin and socket) and 1 physical connection (between the pin and socket). Those are all additional potential points of failure.

Therefore, since the main 24/20 pin power, and 8-pin ATX/CPU cables will always be used, I have no problem with them being wired.

I would search the professional review sites and look for any red flags. These are quality brands so I would not expect any, but you never know until you look.

One red flag often overlooked is Hold-up time failure. The ATX Form Factor standard requires all ATX PSU to "hold up" (maintain output) for a minimum of 17ms should the input (mains) power drop below 90/180VAC (with 115/230VAC). Sadly, not all review sites test for this - yet some otherwise highly rated supplies fail this crucial test - some miserably.

This is a crucial requirement because a total loss, or just a drop (dip - opposite of spike, or sag - opposite of surge) in power of just 15ms, for example, is plenty long to cause the computer to suddenly crash, but still be so fast that we (as mere humans) do not "see" the drop (typically as "flickers" in the lights). A supply that meets or exceeds that Hold-up time spec would maintain output, and keep the computer running. That's a very good thing.

Note, these sudden dips and sags in power are NOT uncommon, even where grids are considered stable. This is why all computers should be supported by a "good" UPS with AVR. But that's for a different discussion.

@martinceld - So, to answer your question, I would go for the Seasonic with the best warranty and price. Otherwise, as dirtyferret correctly noted, the FSB is a "SFX" Form Factor supply. Your case may not support its smaller size (the mounting holes may not align). Plus, being a smaller SFX supply, it has a smaller (92mm) fan and thus may need to spin faster (thus LOUDER) to keep the supply properly cooled. As someone who really hates fan noise, that would be a showstopper for me.

I tend to agree about modular having their disadvantages.

Hello! Decided to go with the Focus-GX as was suggested, but just saw that the Seasonic Focus GM-750 is literally the same price ($0.20 diff) as the Focus GX-650. Is there any reason to not jsust get the focus GM-750 instead?

Seasonic Focus GM-750 GOLD 750watts 80+ Semi Modular PSU SSR-750FM

80PLUS® Gold Form Factor Intel ATX 12 V Dimensions 140 mm (L) x 150 mm (W) x 86 mm (H) Fan Information Fan Size 120 mm Fan Control S2FC Fan Bearing Fluid Dynamic Bearing Life Expectancy 50,000 hours at 40 °C, 15 % - 65 % RH Cable Information Modularity Semi-modular Cable type Webbed cables...

dynaquestpc.com

Seasonic Focus GX-650 GOLD 650watts 80+ Full Modular PSU SSR-650FX

ATX 12 V Full Modular 80 PLUS Gold Certified 10 Years Warranty Dimensions: 140 mm (L) x 150 mm (W) x 86 mm (H)

dynaquestpc.com

 

[Shrek]

The GX has the longer warrentee

 

[Macro Device]

GM-750 is a go. PSUs usually either fail in the first couple years or die long after the warranty ends. Your system can work perfectly even if you use a 450 W PSU (don't try this at home though).

300 W safety and otherwise well-built PSU. Why not? Must be not a single issue with that.

 

[Waldorf]

@martinceld
are you limited to that shop?
i know those are decent units, and i dont remember why, but when i compared those with the corsair Rmx,
that one seemed to be the "better" overall, and 10y warranty as well.

make sure its not the 2018 model..

650w

 

[martinceld]

@martinceld
are you limited to that shop?
i know those are decent units, and i dont remember why, but when i compared those with the corsair Rmx,
that one seemed to be the "better" overall, and 10y warranty as well.

make sure its not the 2018 model..

650w

I would prefer this shop because they can build the PC for me. But I checked other shops and it's around $20 more expensive (at least in my country) which I think might be a bit too much for me

 

[martinceld]

GM-750 is a go. PSUs usually either fail in the first couple years or die long after the warranty ends. Your system can work perfectly even if you use a 450 W PSU (don't try this at home though).

300 W safety and otherwise well-built PSU. Why not? Must be not a single issue with that.

Thanks!

 

[eidairaman1]

7 year warranty

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