NASA Achieves milestone Solid State Battery

[AusWolf]

honestly to me it's one of the most insane things, how we don't have solar panels on top of cars or buses. I live in a place where the sun shines about 300 days a year and it's a waste. I don't thing any of that is a major issue, cars get parked in the shade or a garage or not, if there was a incentive, like saving money, i would let it be in the sun. Dirty it's easy to wash or clean come on, and the degradation is true but for the average lifespan of most cars (8years or less) it is not a problem AT ALL. High speed debris on the roof? i don't think your driving your car right man, what are you doing

I almost agreed with you, but... 8-year lifespan on cars? Are you serious?

 

[Bomby569]

I almost agreed with you, but... 8-year lifespan on cars? Are you serious?

my bad i didn't mean that, but on average the amount of time people keep their cars, i guess then it's someone elses problem, and the battery won't last much longer if that at all, so i don't see it as an issue myself.
I guess a lot of people keep their cars for longer, but i i'm talking about people buying the new EV's, i'm sure when we get ultra cheap EV's some will have the same owner for 20 years, not disputing that.

 

[P4-630]

Solid state batteries are vaporware so far.

Let's see them scale one up to mass production volumes at reasonable cost and we'll talk.

Continue to think pure electric vehicles are likely a technical dead end... Hybrid hydrogen electric or synthetic fuel vehicles ultimately dominate the market.

You probably missed a post:

NASA Achieves milestone Solid State Battery

https://www.nasa.gov/aeroresearch/nasa-solid-state-battery-research-exceeds-initial-goals-draws-interest/ Pretty incredible stuff. Can't wait for this tech in phones and electronics. But will be revolutionary everywhere.

www.techpowerup.com

 

[Denver]

You probably missed a post:

NASA Achieves milestone Solid State Battery

https://www.nasa.gov/aeroresearch/nasa-solid-state-battery-research-exceeds-initial-goals-draws-interest/ Pretty incredible stuff. Can't wait for this tech in phones and electronics. But will be revolutionary everywhere.

www.techpowerup.com

Just because it's NASA doesn't mean the battery will be commercially viable. The article itself is extremely vague about the characteristics of the battery, there are many researches with similar claims out there... for example, CATL has already claimed to have batteries with a density greater than 500Wh/kg

"Chinese battery industry heavyweight CATL has unveiled a novel condensed matter battery technology with an energy density of up to 500 Wh/kg. The company said it can achieve mass production within this year."

CATL launches 500 Wh/kg condensed matter battery

Chinese battery industry heavyweight CATL has unveiled a novel condensed matter battery technology with an energy density of up to 500 Wh/kg. The company said it can achieve mass production within this year.

www.pv-magazine.com

 

[TheinsanegamerN]

SS batteries are the panacea the EV industry has wanted for decades. 700+ mile ranges make EVS make sense, even for edge use cases.

honestly to me it's one of the most insane things, how we don't have solar panels on top of cars or buses. I live in a place where the sun shines about 300 days a year and it's a waste. I don't thing any of that is a major issue, cars get parked in the shade or a garage or not, if there was a incentive, like saving money, i would let it be in the sun. Dirty it's easy to wash or clean come on, and the degradation is true but for the average lifespan of most cars (8years or less) it is not a problem AT ALL. High speed debris on the roof? i don't think your driving your car right man, what are you doing

Because, as mussels JUST pointed out, on sunny days you may get half a panels rated capacity.

100w is absolute shit to a car. You realize that, if that panel made 100w every hour, after an 8 hour day would would have gotten.....2 miles of range. Whoopedoo. Several kW of solar takes a house roof in space.

It's like asking why we dont put wind turbines on airplanes.

20% lost in 5 years. That's not bad for a phone (would be even better if capacity loss was linear over time, which it isn't), but terrible for a car, imo.

It would be awful for a car, the thing is car batteries are thermally managed via liquid heating/cooling, which significantly reduces the wear and tear (usually).

They still have to solve the charging problem. Waiting at a station is a huge inconvenience, and a lot of people (myself included) can't charge at home.

Home charging is a major issue. Even if you DO live in suburbia where everyone has a garage (an everyone cleaned them out) there isnt enough capacity at the pole for everyone to charge an EV or 2 at home at the same time. Apartment dwellers, condo dwellers, and urban houses are going to have plenty of issues with implementation, to say nothing of overall grid capacity and transmission capability.

 

[A Computer Guy]

Home charging is a major issue. Even if you DO live in suburbia where everyone has a garage (an everyone cleaned them out) there isnt enough capacity at the pole for everyone to charge an EV or 2 at home at the same time. Apartment dwellers, condo dwellers, and urban houses are going to have plenty of issues with implementation, to say nothing of overall grid capacity and transmission capability.

Other than grid capacity EV fires would be my big worry especially in more densely populated areas. EV fires seem incredibly difficult to deal with.

 

[AusWolf]

my bad i didn't mean that, but on average the amount of time people keep their cars

Yeah, but most people never buy a new car. People who sign up for the pre-production of a brand new Tesla at the dealership don't count. They're a niche market. If you buy a 3-5 year-old car on finance, and keep it for 8-10 years, the picture is very different.

 

[TheinsanegamerN]

Other than grid capacity EV fires would be my big worry especially in more densely populated areas. EV fires seem incredibly difficult to deal with.

They are, putting them out is a royal PITA, so much so that auto insurance companies and home insurance are now refusing to provide insurance if you have an attached or underground garage. RIP to condo owners and anyone with that 70s style "garage below living room" style house.

Good news is that Solid State batteries are much safer then lithium batteries are. You can literally cut them without causing fire and since they are one big cell the "arcing power causing heat buildup" thing doesnt happen.

 

[TumbleGeorge]

honestly to me it's one of the most insane things, how we don't have solar panels on top of cars or buses. I live in a place where the sun shines about 300 days a year and it's a waste. I don't thing any of that is a major issue, cars get parked in the shade or a garage or not, if there was a incentive, like saving money, i would let it be in the sun. Dirty it's easy to wash or clean come on, and the degradation is true but for the average lifespan of most cars (8years or less) it is not a problem AT ALL. High speed debris on the roof? i don't think your driving your car right man, what are you doing

The answer is extremely simple. The low efficiency of photovoltaics. And the density of the light energy, in particular, would not allow a direct power supply of more than 3-4 kilowatts per car if weather is ideal...even if the photovoltaics were somehow made with 100% efficiency. Yes, it works for ultra-lightweight 100-kilogram test solarmobiles for advertising purposes.

 

[TheinsanegamerN]

The answer is extremely simple. The low efficiency of photovoltaics. And the density of the light energy, in particular, would not allow a direct power supply of more than 3-4 kilowatts per car if weather is ideal...even if the photovoltaics were somehow made with 100% efficiency. Yes, it works for ultra-lightweight 100-kilogram test solarmobiles for advertising purposes.

I want a wave powered boat, when are we getting those?

 

[Bomby569]

The answer is extremely simple. The low efficiency of photovoltaics. And the density of the light energy, in particular, would not allow a direct power supply of more than 3-4 kilowatts per car if weather is ideal...even if the photovoltaics were somehow made with 100% efficiency. Yes, it works for ultra-lightweight 100-kilogram test solarmobiles for advertising purposes.

you could recharge the batteries depending on how long the cars sits in the parking lot, it wouldn't power the car but it helps

 

[Count von Schwalbe]

I want a wave powered boat, when are we getting those?

Already here, just look up "raft"

 

[Bomby569]

100w is absolute shit to a car. You realize that, if that panel made 100w every hour, after an 8 hour day would would have gotten.....2 miles of range. Whoopedoo. Several kW of solar takes a house roof in space.

ok. But don't think a car, think millions of cars, how much would they produce and take of the grid.

 

[TumbleGeorge]

ok. But don't think a car, think millions of cars, how much would they produce and take of the grid.

I suggest we go ahead and get the tools and move some shingles from the solar Tesla roof on our home onto the car. /irony

 

[Count von Schwalbe]

ok. But don't think a car, think millions of cars, how much would they produce and take of the grid.

Cheaper to build grid-attached solar farms.

Also, the environmental impact of those solar panels would be higher than a correctly constructed power plan of nearly any type.

 

[A Computer Guy]

I want a wave powered boat, when are we getting those?

There are wind powered boats but for some reason there is no push to change shipping to wind power.

 

[Count von Schwalbe]

no push

Explains a lot.

 

[mb194dc]

You probably missed a post:

NASA Achieves milestone Solid State Battery

https://www.nasa.gov/aeroresearch/nasa-solid-state-battery-research-exceeds-initial-goals-draws-interest/ Pretty incredible stuff. Can't wait for this tech in phones and electronics. But will be revolutionary everywhere.

www.techpowerup.com

No was my point, let's see them scale it up to mass production at a reasonable cost, then we'll see.

Solid state batteries been possible for ages. Just vapoware for real world usage.

 

[TheinsanegamerN]

ok. But don't think a car, think millions of cars, how much would they produce and take of the grid.

Again, drop in the bucket compared to the electricity require dot move those same millions of cars.

If you lose 900w per car, then make a million of them, you still loose 900w per car, multiplied by a million. This isnt manufacturing losses where quantity spread out the loss.

If you wanted to do that, a far more sensible solution would be covered parking for all parking lots, with solar panels on top of them. THAT would actually make some sense.

You're arguing that adding a AA battery onto a tesla is going to make a huge difference in range. It's not. A solar panel that fits on a car will barley power the cabin fan!

 

[Mussels]

how we don't have solar panels on top of cars or buses

they're just too fragile, micro fractures make them lose their power efficiency long before any damage is visible to the human eye
And remember that you'd have panels on the top of the car facing up - so you're only getting power at full noon, if you live on the equator. Anywhere or any time the sun is angled, you're not getting that.
Some of this wasn't obvious to me until I set up my own camping solar kit, the effort to get sunlight when stationary is tough enough


I suppose the simplest way to explain it would be: You need to be directly facing the sun, being bright doesnt work because the human eye is happy with reflected light - solar panels are not.

 

[Wirko]

And remember that you'd have panels on the top of the car facing up - so you're only getting power at full noon, if you live on the equator.

And then there are winters. You'd need to have solar panels on all doors beside the roof in order to capture some sun rays in winter. All cars would be black, with different artistic patterns of silver lines.

 

[vvkvvkvvk]

There are boats with sails for shipping in production, see fe. https://www.norsepower.com/

 

[KLiKzg]

Lots of them are bought for their patents/designs then shelved, so manufacturers can continue to make profits selling batteries year on year.

Think about it, a battery that lasts 10+ years with little to no degradation isn't good for business.

How else would Apple and other smartphone makers convince you to buy a new $1-1500 phone every year?

So fascinating how we've had working solid state batteries for more than a decade yet not a single mass produced one, despite so many continuous advancements and milestones in density and BOM.

Most of the research these days is funnelled into making existing tech level batteries cheaper, such as lithium iron phosphate, rather than making better batteries that have more energy density and longevity. It's not hard to see why.

The next thing we'll be sold is the "circular economy" where we pretend we don't know how to make things that last decades anymore, and that it's some kind of environmental genius to recycle and remanufacture things using "clean" energy every 3-5 years.

Cynical moment of the day has passed now, I'm off to gym then campus.

I'm just pissed I'm still using my S10+ Ceramic 512 GB Snapdragon, because I vowed not to replace it until solid state batteries were put in Galaxy phones. Not that it's a bad phone, battery lasts two days since I replaced it and ADB'd away the bloat.

I know you are Android fan, but do you really suck in all these bs that the media is presenting to you?

Just to give you a clue:

• I only work on PC or Mac & prefer the MacBook for a laptop always
• for phones I use iPhone since gen4, so there is some history behind it
• my iPhone4 still works & might end up in museum one day
  So those facts are to establish the experience level & facts I can write down:
• Currently iOS is working on iPhone8/X, which were made in 2018, which is 5ya
• In my family we run the iPhones usually for 4y time: 2y from me & the 2y for my parents
• After 4y of running, which is around ~1.500 cycles of charging we are about 80% of SoC on iPhone batteries

Also, I work in famous car company which makes EV cars & products for EV cars. & the 2nd statement is simply not true!
Yes, we need a cheaper cell, as the cost of battery is too much for current EV vehicles. Using cheaper materials also means you do not pollute the 3rd World countries with precious metals, just to have you Android phone or iPhone or your car running.
But the World is doing quite a big research of how to make a more energy density into Li-ion or Na-ion batteries. Just from my experience in the company, the energy density has gone up to 60~80% in cell energy density. In the process, we had cells doing the 200~400-cyles to going up to 1~2k-cycles before SoC in same amount of 6y with this company. Which also does not include the new SSB / SSC which are coming before y2030.

So those are the facts. Do not buy what media sells, but do read more into technology articles & researches.

Lithium-based batteries must not be charged below 0°C. If cold charging is required, they must have internal heating systems. I don't know if such heating in e-cars is a common thing.

Discharging below zero is not a problem.

All of EV have those heating units.

 

[lexluthermiester]

8-year lifespan on cars? Are you serious?

Hell fricken yeah! You don't?!? Seriously with that? I have 5 cars and 2 trucks. Only one was built this decade(daughters Kia) and 2 last decade. The others are all more than 15 years old. One of them is from 1989. ALL run perfectly or nearly so. I expect MY cars to last several decades. I'm not buying an EV until they measure up to THAT standard.

Yeah, but most people never buy a new car.

Seriously? My Acura TSX was new when I bought it. So was my Titan and the Civic. So again, seriously with that?

Please don't take offense, but I had to call moose-muffins on what you said..

 

[AusWolf]

... The others are all more than 15 years old. One of them is from 1989. ALL run perfectly or nearly so. I expect MY cars to last several decades. I'm not buying an EV until they measure up to THAT standard.

That's exactly my point. There's no moose-muffins here.

Although, your ownership is by far not a typical one, methinks. Most people (at least here) only have one car.