Which ThrottleStop Method is Better for Locked CPUs?

[Stilpon98]

Hey, this guy in the video unlocks Turbo Ratio setting in ThrottleStop with "Cfg unlock/BIOS overclock unlock" method for 12th and 13th Gen mobile H series CPUs. Is this method safe? Or even worth it?
I have already lowered both my i5-12500H's PL1 and PL2 Turbo Power wattage 95-115W to 45W in ThrottleStop, and I'm okay with the temperatures now. However, this guy in the video claims that the Turbo Ratio method is better than adjusting PL limits for powerful CPUs.

I'm trying to get maximum performance while keeping temperatures as low as possible. Which method is more effective for Intel 12th and 13th Gen mobile H series CPUs: decreasing PL limits or using the Turbo Ratio method?

 

[unclewebb]

I do not know if there is any consensus on what throttling method would be better. I prefer to use ThrottleStop to lower the turbo power limits but I can see some situations where reducing the maximum CPU speed might be a good idea. Limiting the maximum CPU speed might help prevent the temperatures from rising up so quickly initially.

Have you tried lowering the Speed Shift Max value in the TPL window? Maybe that setting can be used to control the maximum CPU speed. I recommend this setting when the turbo ratios in the FIVR window are locked. Simpler and less risk compared to the cfg unlock method.

 

[Stilpon98]

I do not know if there is any consensus on what throttling method would be better. I prefer to use ThrottleStop to lower the turbo power limits but I can see some situations where reducing the maximum CPU speed might be a good idea. Limiting the maximum CPU speed might help prevent the temperatures from rising up so quickly initially.

Have you tried lowering the Speed Shift Max value in the TPL window? Maybe that setting can be used to control the maximum CPU speed. I recommend this setting when the turbo ratios in the FIVR window are locked. Simpler and less risk compared to the cfg unlock method.

No, I haven't tried setting the Speed Shift Max value yet, but I'll give it a try. Thank you! Is 4-40 a good starting point? Also, how can I monitor my CPU's clock while TSBench is running? I've tried different methods to monitor the CPU clock, but my laptop almost freezes while TSBench is running, and I can't monitor anything.

 

[unclewebb]

The TS Bench has an option to change its Windows priority. Have you tried running the TS Bench at the Idle priority?

I would just run Cinebench.

Lower the Speed Shift Max value and you should be able to see any changes in the CPU speed when monitoring with ThrottleStop. You can make changes while the CPU is loaded with Cinebench.

 

[Stilpon98]

The TS Bench has an option to change its Windows priority. Have you tried running the TS Bench at the Idle priority?

I would just run Cinebench.

Lower the Speed Shift Max value and you should be able to see any changes in the CPU speed when monitoring with ThrottleStop. You can make changes while the CPU is loaded with Cinebench.

I deleted the ThrottleStop.ini file to reset the settings. Why am I encountering an 'EDP Other' error in stock settings? The 'EDP Other' indicator blinks red when idle, and it stays constantly red when the CPU is under load. Is this normal? By the way, I've tried both Speed Shift EPP and SpeedShift in TPL while the CPU is under load, but it doesn't seem to affect the CPU speed.

 

[musicwiz97]

EDP OTHER under the RING column will always light up any time there is THERMAL throttling or power limit throttling. PL1 or PL2 or THERMAL in the CORE column will also cause EDP OTHER under the RING column. I think all Intel CPUs do this. It is normal.

Show me the FIVR and TPL windows so I can see the rest of your settings.

remember seeing this yesterday, don't know what the explanation for EDP other under GPU would be. also i think we have the same PC man, 38 for both PL1 and PL2 with 56 time limit and 3.8ghz turbo boost max seems to on average keep temperatures at the coldest. on my system, turbo boost max at 3.9ghz and up seem to get temperatures above 85 degrees celsius much faster

 

[Stilpon98]

remember seeing this yesterday, don't know what the explanation for EDP other under GPU would be. also i think we have the same PC man, 38 for both PL1 and PL2 with 56 time limit and 3.8ghz turbo boost max seems to on average keep temperatures at the coldest. on my system, turbo boost max at 3.9ghz and up seem to get temperatures above 85 degrees celsius much faster

Thank you! How did you set Turbo Boost Max to 3.9Ghz? Did you use the CFG unlock method? Turbo Ratio is grayed out for me.
All forums and Reddit are filled with posts about the Intel Thermal Throttling issue. I really hope this 'undervolt protection' thing won't be permanent...

 

[unclewebb]

Is this normal?

EDP RING throttling is normal for many 12th Gen processors. It was a trick either Intel or some manufacturers used to prevent the ring from running too fast. Only the more expensive HX and K series CPUs allow IccMax adjustment for 12th Gen and newer processors.

Speed Shift in TPL while the CPU is under load, but it doesn't seem to affect the CPU speed.

ThrottleStop has not been thoroughly tested in Windows 11 or on 12th Gen and newer CPUs. The Speed Shift Max setting that used to work correctly in Windows 10 on my 10th Gen CPU may no longer work correctly. Run something simple in the background like Cinebench so there is a load on the CPU.

Here is an example of what I need to see.

 

[musicwiz97]

Thank you! How did you set Turbo Boost Max to 3.9Ghz? Did you use the CFG unlock method? Turbo Ratio is grayed out for me.
All forums and Reddit are filled with posts about the Intel Thermal Throttling issue. I really hope this 'undervolt protection' thing won't be permanent...

turbo ratio is greyed out for me as well

the Speed shift min max section in the TPL window was where I adjusted it using Throttlestop. the max 58 represents the max i5-12500H clock of 4.5ghz, so doing the math and ratios (3.8ghz/4.5ghz= approx 0.84; 0.84*58 would give you 48.97), 49 would led to the CPU limited to a max clock of 3.8 Ghz. you can calculate what the numbers would be based on what you want the max clock to be, so 3.9ghz would be 50 (rounded to the nearest whole number)

as you activate different profiles, unless you disable turbo for an individual Throttlestop profile, the turbo boost limits set through this speed shift section will stay the same since the Throttlestop version update allowing for TPL setting specific profiles hasnt been released yet


for getting it through windows (advanced power settings) (cmd commands):

Max processor freq class 1 (on i5-12500H's hybrid processor architecture, seems to adjust max frequency for p cores only based on my HWiNFO mesasurements)

show: powercfg -attributes 54533251-82be-4824-96c1-47b60b740d00 75b0ae3f-bce0-45a7-8c89-c9611c25e101 -ATTRIB_HIDE

hide: powercfg -attributes 54533251-82be-4824-96c1-47b60b740d00 75b0ae3f-bce0-45a7-8c89-c9611c25e101 +ATTRIB_HIDE


Max processor freq (on i5-12500H's hybrid processor architecture, seems to adjust max frequency for e cores only based on my HWiNFO mesasurements):

show: powercfg -attributes 54533251-82be-4824-96c1-47b60b740d00 75b0ae3f-bce0-45a7-8c89-c9611c25e100 -ATTRIB_HIDE

hide: powercfg -attributes 54533251-82be-4824-96c1-47b60b740d00 75b0ae3f-bce0-45a7-8c89-c9611c25e100 +ATTRIB_HIDE

the calculations that you input in the windows advanced power settings here I've found also match the math and ratios in the speed shift section of Throttlestop mentioned earlier (so 4900MHz would led to a max clock of 3800Mhz in actuality) it's just that in Throttlestop you don't have the ability to set p core and e core max clocks separately


here's the stackexchange post i found where i got access to those hidden windows power settings commands:
https://superuser.com/a/1437854


i've noticed though setting it in windows and then changing profiles in Throttlestop causes the set numbers in windows advanced power settings to default back to zero, so if you're using Throttlestop for turbo boost limiting or just in general, its best just to stick with that and not toy with values in the windows advanced power settings

 

[Stilpon98]

EDP RING throttling is normal for many 12th Gen processors. It was a trick either Intel or some manufacturers used to prevent the ring from running too fast. Only the more expensive HX and K series CPUs allow IccMax adjustment for 12th Gen and newer processors.


ThrottleStop has not been thoroughly tested in Windows 11 or on 12th Gen and newer CPUs. The Speed Shift Max setting that used to work correctly in Windows 10 on my 10th Gen CPU may no longer work correctly. Run something simple in the background like Cinebench so there is a load on the CPU.

Here is an example of what I need to see.

View attachment 309358

Speed Shift only working When performance plan is ticked at "High performance"
Its not working at "Balanced" and "Battery Saver" power plans. Even when there is no load on the CPU, the High Performance power plan keeps the CPU clock running at its highest level.

 

[unclewebb]

Even when there is no load on the CPU, the High Performance power plan keeps the CPU clock running at its highest level.

When using the High Performance power plan, try checking the Speed Shift EPP box on the main screen of ThrottleStop. Set EPP to 84. This should allow the CPU to slow down when lightly loaded.

Using the High Performance power plan allows ThrottleStop to control the CPU with less interference from Windows.

Setting Speed Shift Max to 30 appears to be doing a great job limiting the CPU to the 30 multiplier.

 

[Stilpon98]

When using the High Performance power plan, try checking the Speed Shift EPP box on the main screen of ThrottleStop. Set EPP to 84. This should allow the CPU to slow down when lightly loaded.

Using the High Performance power plan allows ThrottleStop to control the CPU with less interference from Windows.

Setting Speed Shift Max to 30 appears to be doing a great job limiting the CPU to the 30 multiplier.

Yesss, it worked. Thank you so much!

 

[unclewebb]

Thank you so much!

Thank you for taking the time to test Speed Shift for me. That saves me money. Now I do not have to go buy a 12th or 13th Gen system for testing purposes. I also do not have to install Windows 11. I am too old to be a Microsoft beta tester if I do not have to be.

 

[Stilpon98]

Thank you for taking the time to test Speed Shift for me. That saves me money. Now I do not have to go buy a 12th or 13th Gen system for testing purposes. I also do not have to install Windows 11. I am too old to be a Microsoft beta tester if I do not have to be.

Lmao. ^^
If you want me to try anything I am ready to help. You are a gift to the laptop community man, I appreciate your work.

I've deleted the ThrottleStop.ini file to reset the settings again and my configuration is like this now:

This configuration gave me a stable 3.9GHz clock at games. When the CPU load is higher Cpu Power consumption becomes higher and higher to stick at 3.9GHz:

Speed Shift EPP 84 - Turbo Power Max: 45W - Speed Shift unticked(Restarted my laptop): 3.2GHz

Speed Shift EPP 84 - Turbo Power Max: 45W - Speed Shift ticked= 4.4Ghz (How?)

Speed Shift EPP 128 - Turbo Power Max: 45W - Speed Shift ticked= 3.8Ghz

I'm trying to find sweet spot for the CPU. I'll do further test in CPU heavy games too. Do you have any suggestions for me?

 

[unclewebb]

I appreciate your work.

You are welcome.

Restarted my laptop

There are some hidden settings that the BIOS might change during a reboot or during a sleep resume cycle. No way for me to know what your BIOS does when no one is looking.

Speed Shift ticked= 4.4Ghz (How?)

With Windows 11 randomly scheduling tasks on P or E cores, anything is possible. I have done zero Speed Shift testing on a 12th Gen H series CPU. I have never used Windows 11 or an Intel CPU which had both P and E cores. You are definitely asking the wrong person about why strange stuff happens. Answer: I don't know. Stuff happens. I am always surprised that ThrottleStop appears to work more or less correctly on newer hardware.

I prefer setting Speed Shift EPP to 0 for maximum performance and minimum latency. Your games might appreciate a fast, low latency CPU.

Do you have any suggestions for me?

Don't spend your life trying to come up with the perfect settings. Come up with some settings that work well, play games and be happy. That is always good advice.

 

[musicwiz97]

@Stilpon98 I'm also part of the Acer Nitro subreddit and was searching the keyword laptop coolers. Saw your name pop up under this guy that used KLIM Mistral. I ended up getting one in the mail today, so far only like a 5 degree decrease in average temps when on the 2nd level fan speed. Did you end up buying or getting it? Wondering if I should return it. I know the root of the issue stems in spurts of high voltage going through the processor and the pads can't control those temp spikes that fast, but we also can't undervolt this processor.. trying every way possible to make the best out of this laptop like you are

 

[solarmystic]

The TS Bench has an option to change its Windows priority. Have you tried running the TS Bench at the Idle priority?

I would just run Cinebench.

Lower the Speed Shift Max value and you should be able to see any changes in the CPU speed when monitoring with ThrottleStop. You can make changes while the CPU is loaded with Cinebench.

Speaking of which, would it be possible to introduce an Above Normal or even High Priority setting for TS Bench?

It keeps on using just my 12700KF's 4 e-cores and leaves the 8 p-cores idle at normal priority.

I suspect it has something to do with TS itself already being set to Realtime, but i've no way of proving that.

 

[unclewebb]

possible to introduce an Above Normal

I have always avoided doing that because when you fully load a computer at Above Normal priority, you can end up with an unresponsive computer. If the mouse and keyboard input are frozen, it is hard to tell if the benchmark is still progressing or if the computer is frozen and locked up. I will consider adding an Above Normal priority option to the TS Bench. If anyone complains, I will send them your way.

If an E core is fully loaded, it is pretty dumb of Windows 11 not to move the task over to an idle P core for maximum performance. I am still on Windows 10 with a 10th Gen CPU. No interest yet in dealing with the broken Windows 11 scheduler. I am hesitant to begin any new projects. Writing a scheduler that works properly could use up a couple of years of my life. ThrottleStop started out as a simple afternoon project 15 years ago. Time flies when fixing bugs.

 

[Stilpon98]

@Stilpon98 I'm also part of the Acer Nitro subreddit and was searching the keyword laptop coolers. Saw your name pop up under this guy that used KLIM Mistral. I ended up getting one in the mail today, so far only like a 5 degree decrease in average temps when on the 2nd level fan speed. Did you end up buying or getting it? Wondering if I should return it. I know the root of the issue stems in spurts of high voltage going through the processor and the pads can't control those temp spikes that fast, but we also can't undervolt this processor.. trying every way possible to make the best out of this laptop like you are

I'm using a cheap laptop cooler to elevate my laptop slightly. I don't believe any laptop cooler will help with the temperatures. Even the expensive ones are effective to a limited extent and are not really worth their cost. Improved airflow is unlikely to make a significant difference. I tried setting the Nitro 5's fan speeds to both 5000 and 7500, but it didn't change the CPU temperature at all. And laptop fans are already loud enough for me.
There are only two things I haven't tried yet:

1. Using Liquid Metal instead of thermal paste.
2. Have you tried setting e-cores to lowest value?

 

[musicwiz97]

Unrelated to this thread, but I've set up Battery and AC Power profiles in Throttlestop and most of the times they successfully engage their respective profiles, but I've noticed that sometimes if for some reason I have to quickly unplug and then plug back in my charger, when I unplug it again in quick succession, Throttlestop completely closes / crashes? Not sure if this is a bug but I have to restart throttlestop process entirely when this happens. Any idea what might be happening?

 

[solarmystic]

If an E core is fully loaded, it is pretty dumb of Windows 11 not to move the task over to an idle P core for maximum performance. I am still on Windows 10 with a 10th Gen CPU. No interest yet in dealing with the broken Windows 11 scheduler. I am hesitant to begin any new projects. Writing a scheduler that works properly could use up a couple of years of my life. ThrottleStop started out as a simple afternoon project 15 years ago. Time flies when fixing bugs.

That's the funny part, i am on Windows 10, perhaps this isn't an issue on Windows 11. I've gotten away with manual core affinity for stubborn apps that refuse to play ball so far, but i can't seem to find a way to change that for TS Bench since it's integrated into Throttlestop and not a separate app i can change the affinity of in Task Manager.

Thanks for the response @unclewebb, i really appreciate your work so far, been using it since 2010 when i was on a Core 2 Duo T9550 laptop and got a free clock speed bump using the dual IDA functionality.

 

[unclewebb]

dual IDA

Good old Dual IDA. You are a confirmed long time ThrottleStop user. Most new ThrottleStop users have no idea how long it has been around.

Windows 10

Windows 10 has no ability to assign tasks to the proper P or E cores. In theory, the scheduler in Windows 11 is supposed to be new and improved. By using Windows 10 on new unsupported hardware, you are creating your own problems.

ThrottleStop completely closes / crashes

Are you using the Task Scheduler to start ThrottleStop? There is a setting in the Task Scheduler that can tell Windows to kill ThrottleStop when switching to battery power. That is usually the problem. Make sure nothing is checked on the Task Scheduler Conditions tab. Grayed out boxes in the Task Scheduler that are checked are still active. You have to clear boxes that you do not want to be active. Here is a guide you can compare your task to.

Effective clock speed

Hi, I have a problem with my CPU (8700K), which is that my effective core clock speeds decrease after a while. I have an all core OC set to 4.7GHz and initially when starting the PC, the effective core clocks are 4.7GHz as well when CPU is under load. These are later (like 10 mins later after...

www.techpowerup.com

 

[musicwiz97]

Good old Dual IDA. You are a confirmed long time ThrottleStop user. Most new ThrottleStop users have no idea how long it has been around.


Windows 10 has no ability to assign tasks to the proper P or E cores. In theory, the scheduler in Windows 11 is supposed to be new and improved. By using Windows 10 on new unsupported hardware, you are creating your own problems.


Are you using the Task Scheduler to start ThrottleStop? There is a setting in the Task Scheduler that can tell Windows to kill ThrottleStop when switching to battery power. That is usually the problem. Make sure nothing is checked on the Task Scheduler Conditions tab. Grayed out boxes in the Task Scheduler that are checked are still active. You have to clear boxes that you do not want to be active. Here is a guide you can compare your task to.

Effective clock speed

Hi, I have a problem with my CPU (8700K), which is that my effective core clock speeds decrease after a while. I have an all core OC set to 4.7GHz and initially when starting the PC, the effective core clocks are 4.7GHz as well when CPU is under load. These are later (like 10 mins later after...

www.techpowerup.com

Got it thats my problem, the "when switching to battery power" box is checked but greyed out because the "start only if the pc is on ac power" is unchecked. Thanks for the tip!

 

[DasWirdSchon]

First of all, let me say this: I got to know ThrottleStop today and learned a lot from it, but in the end, it seems I don't need it for my locked i3-12100f with an MSI motherboard.

TLDR: I'm not sure to what extent other motherboards have this feature, but while exploring ThrottleStop and the BIOS, I came across MSI's "CPU lite load" and successfully implemented the lowest level (1) (it was set to 12 by default). (Read more about it here: https://www-computerbase-de.transla...uto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=pt-BR&_x_tr_pto=wapp)

Additionally, I noticed that the package C-state was limited to C1 by default (auto). Here too, I successfully got the lowest level to work (C10). Although it remains to be seen how stable it is when I throttle down to the lowest levels (haven't gone that far yet).

I hope my post is not too off-topic... I thought it might be useful to someone someday.

 

[unclewebb]

Please post in English.