New build, is this ram bad or is it my cpu/board?

[ir_cow]

What do you think about the newer 24GB modules, would they have a better chance at 7200 or better?

No I don't think 24GB will make a difference for you. 24GB do overclock higher for the XOC crowd, but the ram isn't the problem here. Don't need to mess with the ram voltage either because 1.45-1.5V will get you to 8200.

I agree $400 isn't cheap and it's a decent MB. I'm just telling you from testing a bunch of Z790 MBs and ram, it's never a guarantee even with a good binned CPU. This is why Intel only officially supports DDR5-5200. QVL lists are also kind of bullshit in that they are done with the absolute best binned CPU and by someone in a lab who knows what they are doing. I half believe it just validated up to the BIOS and not actually for use. Though, I honestly do not know the (real real) details of validation process for MBs.

My rule of thumb for those MB QLV lists is 2 steps down if you know what your doing and manually set all the voltages. 4 steps down if you just want to enable XMP and call it a day. So if 7800 is the max, it would be 7600 if you somewhat know what your doing and 7200 if you just want to plug n play. Of course your own CPU IMC lotto is at play here too. Just because say the ASRock Z790 PG Sonic boots DDR5-8000 into windows, does not mean it ever was going to be stable.


G.SKILL QVL lists is pretty good I've noticed. The fact that only 4 MB's are listed and validated, all are 2-slot Z790 MBs tells me they aren't out just to sell you stuff regardless if it works or not.

They've got a couple 6800MHz kits I could try to set to 7000? Good idea, bad idea? I could try for a 7200 XMP rated kit and hope for the best?

If you are going to get something else and 7000 doesn't work, either take a risk with a 6800 kit or buy a more reasonable 6400 kit.

KLEVV CRAS V RGB DDR5-6400 CL32 2x 16 GB Review

KLEVV is at it again and brings us another CRAS product. What we have here today is the CRAS V RGB DDR5-6400 memory kit marketed towards PC enthusiasts and gamers alike. Follow along as we test this memory kit and see how it stacks up to the competition!

www.techpowerup.com

Alternatively you could just flash a SPD profile to the memory and make your own 6800 profile. But as @Chrispy_ said already, either you enjoy memory overclocking or value your time
lol. Paraphrasing here lol

Edit: you probably don't want to here this but validating ram with memtest86 isn't ideal. Doesn't hit the ram hard enough. You want to use memtest5 (with 1usmus_v3.cfg), 3 rounds minimum and 25 if you are seriously about long uptimes. I use https://www.karhusoftware.com/ramtest/ but that isn't free.

 

[Outback Bronze]

They weren't any more expensive than the slower kits. I think I paid $120.

I would honestly just keep it and run it close to 7000mt/s and lower the primary timings to suit.

You can always just keep that memory for a future board and future cpu with that will have a better imc.

Great work trouble shooting that memory with that board. Excellent job! TPU need and thumbs up emoji.

 

[Upgrayedd]

I would honestly just keep it and run it close to 7000mt/s and lower the primary timings to suit.

You can always just keep that memory for a future board and future cpu with that will have a better imc.

Great work trouble shooting that memory with that board. Excellent job! TPU need and thumbs up emoji.

View attachment 325122

RAM is cheap enough right now and I doubt I build another DDR5 pc here anytime soon so I don't have any real problem letting it go. Since it's not my pc in the end, I want XMP to just work out of the box in case the bios ever gets reset on my nephew for whatever reason.

this the kit I was looking at it's a teamgroup kit at 7200 with tighter timings than anyone else.
https://www.microcenter.com/product...esktop-memory-kit-ff3d532g7200hc34adc01-black

I noticed with ddr4 as well that teamgroup always has a kit that is timed better than everyone else's no matter the speed. Any ideas why that brand has consistently lower timings?
Edit: I've almost always exclusively bought GSkill. So I know next to nothing about teamgroup except their from Taiwan.

 

[ir_cow]

7200 (34-42-42) is fairly standard.

I noticed with ddr4 as well that teamgroup always has a kit that is timed better than everyone else's no matter the speed. Any ideas why that brand has consistently lower timings?

Patriot Viper series generally has tighter sub-timings. Plus they come with multiple profiles. If say 7200 doesn't work, you have 700 and 6800 to use.

Patriot Viper Venom DDR5-7200 CL34 2x 16 GB Review

Patriot pushes the DDR5 Viper Venom series to new heights with the newest memory kit binned to 7200 MT/s. Targeting pro-level gamers and PC enthusiasts, follow along as we benchmark, compare and overclock to find out how Patriot stacks up to the competition!

www.techpowerup.com

But really, you are splitting hairs here. Unless you manually tweak it yourself, the difference between Teamgroup, XPG, G.SKILL, Partriot, Corsair, etc are extreme minor at 7200 CL34

 

[Outback Bronze]

bios ever gets reset on my nephew for whatever reason.

If this happens it should just default to Jedec speeds so it shouldn't be an issue. Ball is in your court.

 

[Upgrayedd]

If this happens it should just default to Jedec speeds so it shouldn't be an issue. Ball is in your court.

Right on but I'd still have to go and do it manually again so it's just easier to call him and say click this then that and be done with it.

7200 (34-42-42) is fairly standard.

Patriot Viper series generally has tighter sub-timings. Plus they come with multiple profiles. If say 7200 doesn't work, you have 700 and 6800 to use.

Patriot Viper Venom DDR5-7200 CL34 2x 16 GB Review

Patriot pushes the DDR5 Viper Venom series to new heights with the newest memory kit binned to 7200 MT/s. Targeting pro-level gamers and PC enthusiasts, follow along as we benchmark, compare and overclock to find out how Patriot stacks up to the competition!

www.techpowerup.com

But really, you are splitting hairs here. Unless you manually tweak it yourself, the difference between Teamgroup, XPG, G.SKILL, Partriot, Corsair, etc are extreme minor at 7200 CL34

Do you know if patriot is the only brand that comes with more than 1 profile like that?

 

[ir_cow]

you know if patriot is the only brand that comes with more than 1 profile like that?

Only brand that outright advertise it in the spec sheet.I have Neo Forza MK5 /Trinity and Kingston Fury with multiple profiles, but it's no where to found in the website that it comes with those. I think Neo Forza will always have it. One of my Kingston Fury kits does and the other does not...so idk.

 

[Upgrayedd]

So I went and got that patriot kit. 7200 xmp is not happening. I tried 1.47v and still doesn't want to go error free.
I tried xmp 7000 and get a few errors. I upped the voltage from 1.45 to 1.47. I get 2 errors at xmp7000.
Using XMP 7000 and tuning down to 6800 will also error just a handful of times at 1.4v but not at 1.45v.
Really wish more kits took advantage of XMP 3.0 hardly anyone includes multiple profiles and these profiles on this patriot kit use timings a little different than everyone else uses and I believe that's why this kit is giving me trouble now. I kinda looked up the aida64 xmp info that TPU provides to match the timings from another 7200 kit and I just can't figure out for the life of me which numbers to match up. Like the aida64 readout shows 4 primary timings while the bios shows 5. It's just too messy to follow the secondary and tertiary.

 

[ir_cow]

Well it shouldn't error at all.

You might just have to manually set the CPU voltage related to memory because you have a really bad CPU it seems. The motherboard plays a role too.

 

[Upgrayedd]

Well it shouldn't error at all.

You might just have to manually set the CPH voltage because you have a really bad CPU it seems. The motherboard plays a role too.

Man you think so? Maybe when I did the first mount it was just too tight? I feel like that would ruin the board instead of the cpu though? Could've smashed the cpu I guess? He'll idk. I'm using the newest contact frame instead the stock ILM.
I can return it until sometime in January. Normally it's only a 14-day return on cpus at micro center.
What do you think about those large cache speed differences from the other post from fusseli today about getting 7800xmp to pass.

 

[ir_cow]

Man you think so? Maybe when I did the first mount it was just too tight? I feel like that would ruin the board instead of the cpu though? Could've smashed the cpu I guess? He'll idk. I'm using the newest contact frame instead the stock ILM.

I use a contact frame as well. As long as its even your good to go. Do the screws in a X pattern until they are finger tight. Then one turn for each after.

People have issues if it's not tight enough. I ignore the 2-3 turns / quarter whatever instructions.

Since your on ASUS you can try the follow voltages for the memory controller. You could go higher, but this is like a safe-ish limit. (What is really safe eh?)

It should here in the BIOS. Might be different placement for the Prime.

Extreme Tweaker Tab.
Manual System Agent Voltage : 1.20-1.275v

Extreme Tweaker > Advanced Memory Voltages
IVR Transmitter VDDQ (VDDQ_TX) : 1.35v
Memory Controller Voltage (VDD2) : 1.35v

For context I do SA 1.15V / TX 1.25 / VDD2 1.25 for DDR5-8000. But I also have a good binned CPU and a 2-slot motherboard.

If it works, drop the SA voltage first. Followed by the other two until it becomes unstable or you reach what I'm at.

 

[Upgrayedd]

I use a contact frame as well. As long as its even your good to go. Do the screws in a X pattern until they are finger tight. Then one turn for each after.

People have issues if it's not tight enough. I ignore the 2-3 turns / quarter whatever instructions.

Since your on ASUS you can try the follow voltages for the memory controller. You could go higher, but this is like a safe-ish limit. (What is really safe eh?)

It should here in the BIOS. Might be different placement for the Prime.

Extreme Tweaker Tab.
Manual System Agent Voltage : 1.20-1.275v

Extreme Tweaker > Advanced Memory Voltages
IVR Transmitter VDDQ (VDDQ_TX) : 1.35v
Memory Controller Voltage (VDD2) : 1.35v

For context I do SA 1.15V / TX 1.25 / VDD2 1.25 for DDR5-8000. But I also have a good binned CPU and a 2-slot motherboard.

If it works, drop the SA voltage first. Followed by the other two until it becomes unstable or you reach what I'm at.

I've come to find where the pressure was too tight was actually from the contact frame. I went through 6800 stable but that was after a voltage bump.

I wanted to know if it was the cooler or the frame and tightened the frame down and kept the cooler not so tight and it errors immediately. Loosened the frame up and x pattern tightened it until resistance was felt then I went about another full rotation or so after that. They tried to make these new frames where you didn't have to really pay attention but you still need to it seems or I actual do just have a poor cpu. I might be able to ask microcenter to test it out.

 

[ir_cow]

I'm more inclined to believe it's your MB, but the range for IMCs is like 7600-8400. I've haven't personal got any of those really bad ones, but they do exist.

Edit: Just by a off chance, you aren't messing with the CPU clocks and voltage as well? Hard to diagnose a problem if you add more problems to the equation.

 

[Upgrayedd]

Mounting pressure is a real issue for me I guess. I tried xmp2 7600 and was getting errors after mounting full tightness on the frame. So I loosened the frame until it jiggled them tightened until it just seemed like it was snug enough, not very tight really, they had multiple turns left in them pretty sure. Put the cooler back and tightened the cooler all the way until the screws stopped.. switched to xmp2 7800 because why not and ran memtest86 v10.6 again and at this current moment it finished pass 1 of 4 error free. Though I did get a "[Note] RAM may be vulnerable to high frequency row hammer bit flips" during the test.

Edit: no I'm not messing with anything else other than turning MCE off and XMP on. I turned the wifi and bt radios of, turned rgb off within BIOS but nothing with freqs or Vs.

Just had an error on the 2nd pass.

 

[ShrimpBrime]

I like seeing values and data before trying to help. So far none.

Can you do cpu-z multiple times. Open spd and memory tabs specifically.
Would like to see a screen shot everything set to defaults first.
Then, in bios, find the memory SPD. It'll show you some of the secondary timings as well. You compare this to the XMP settings the board does on auto and correct them.

Asus, at least on ROG boards, has XMP I and II. One or the other is "Asus Optimized". Don't use this.

I'm interested in voltages.
System Agent and the memory controller. These will be crucial for proper set up and stability.

If all this is already covered by the other guys, disregard my post.

 

[Upgrayedd]

I like seeing values and data before trying to help. So far none.

Can you do cpu-z multiple times. Open spd and memory tabs specifically.
Would like to see a screen shot everything set to defaults first.
Then, in bios, find the memory SPD. It'll show you some of the secondary timings as well. You compare this to the XMP settings the board does on auto and correct them.

Asus, at least on ROG boards, has XMP I and II. One or the other is "Asus Optimized". Don't use this.

I'm interested in voltages.
System Agent and the memory controller. These will be crucial for proper set up and stability.

If all this is already covered by the other guys, disregard my post.

I'll get you some numbers here a bit. Off the top of my head i seen system agent at like 1.248 I think. MC is like 1.404 or something.
I was using xmp1 at first but I switched to xmp 2 and still wasn't good until I took the contract frame off and used the stock ilm. I do have currently have a picture of the SPD from bios.

 

[ir_cow]

@ShrimpBrime has given good direction here. Instead of bouncing around, let's get a baseline. Can't help much more than we already have without more information.

 

[bonehead123]

Well, if I didn't know better, I'd say you're probably just holding it wrong, hehehe ....../s

Sorry, I couldn't resist !

 

[arbiter]

I have had 0 problems with 7000MT on my asus tuf z790 so far. I would expect that would be working speed to set. AIDA64 benchmarks around 95-100GB/s between read/write/copy.

 

[Upgrayedd]

Well, if I didn't know better, I'd say you're probably just holding it wrong, hehehe ....../s

Sorry, I couldn't resist !

Lol feels like it. Maybe I looked at it wrong.

@ShrimpBrime has given good direction here. Instead of bouncing around, let's get a baseline. Can't help much more than we already have without more information.

Here's a shot with XMP II 7600. Coupled with the bios shot from my last post. I'm back on the stock ILM

 

[ShrimpBrime]

Lol feels like it. Maybe I looked at it wrong.

Here's a shot with XMP II 7600. Coupled with the bios shot from my last post. I'm back on the stock ILM

I would lower the ring ratio to start. Usually under 4800mhz is stable without additional ring or v-core to run 5ghz or more. The tRC is not correct and I bet plenty of sub timings are not correct either.

Most IMCs should be ok at 2000mhz under 1.2v. System Agent 1.250v or less. Some say 1.30v or 1.35v and higher. I don't think that's necessary because your not trying to run super tight timings or anything.

 

[Upgrayedd]

I would lower the ring ratio to start. Usually under 4800mhz is stable without additional ring or v-core to run 5ghz or more. The tRC is not correct and I bet plenty of sub timings are not correct either.

Most IMCs should be ok at 2000mhz under 1.2v. System Agent 1.250v or less. Some say 1.30v or 1.35v and higher. I don't think that's necessary because your not trying to run super tight timings or anything.

What makes you say it's not correct? That's what Patriot shipped it with.
I haven't messed with anything other than just MCE OFF and XMP 2 ON.

 

[ir_cow]

I would lower the ring ratio to start. Usually under 4800mhz is stable without additional ring or v-core to run 5ghz or more. The tRC is not correct and I bet plenty of sub timings are not correct either.

Most IMCs should be ok at 2000mhz under 1.2v. System Agent 1.250v or less. Some say 1.30v or 1.35v and higher. I don't think that's necessary because your not trying to run super tight timings or anything.

Yeah I'm at SA 1.15v for 8000 on the ASUS Apex. The Tachyon took more and 4-slot ones even more!

Each CPU is unfortunately slightly different too.

What makes you say it's not correct? That's what Patriot shipped it with.
I haven't messed with anything other than just MCE OFF and XMP 2 ON.

Your confusing the ram voltages with other stuff.

 

[Upgrayedd]

Yeah I'm at SA 1.15v for 8000 on the ASUS Apex. The Tachyon took more and 4-slot ones even more!

Each CPU is unfortunately slightly different too.


Your confusing the ram voltages with other stuff.

I was asking why are the timings wrong. I'm confused how you think I'm confused about voltages now lol

 

[ShrimpBrime]

What makes you say it's not correct? That's what Patriot shipped it with.
I haven't messed with anything other than just MCE OFF and XMP 2 ON.

The tRC timing, which is a primary isn't correct. A lot of times, the secondaries are not correct either.

The board will only do training when set to enable. I'm not sure what training algorithms will be on a prime board. I'm used to clocking ROG boards.