Have AIOs killed custom loops?

[ShrimpBrime]

I came to a conclusion that there is a little sense in trying to discuss or explain anything to ShripmBrime, I will not react to him anymore.

I know, I'm sorry.

One guy said used in ALL air coolers, another said he's right.

I simply started off as saying not all coolers use water.

Then a bunch of skewing going on.

Ah well, like others, I'm not trying to make friends and impress people with my cooling. I'm just stating some facts that are just as true as others.

The problem is I'm supposed to agree with everyone's point, but they can't share the same back.

Like when the water gets to the cold side on a horizontal plane. How does it make it back around the bend to the vertical plane? In water cooling, you need a pump for that.

Ah well, Fuck Shrimp. I'm off to bed.

 

[Vya Domus]

How does it make it back around the bend to the vertical plane? In water cooling, you need a pump for that.

Capillary effect, same as the sponge analogy I used before.

Just imagine a sponge in an enclosed chamber, at one end the liquid starts boiling, vapor goes up, turns into a liquid again and works it's way down until it starts to boil again.

 

[ShrimpBrime]

You can only move water out of a chamber if it's not actually air tight or if the pressure is so low it turns into a gas.

Use your head, imagine a pipe that is closed at one end and at the other you start to create a vacuum, if the liquid moved you'd also create a vacuum in it's place that would pull the liquid with an equal force, there would be no movement.

Look, when you evac a single stage unit, the entire purpose of it is to remove the moisture period. At least that's what my certs classes told me. And very much in an air tight situation.

Gotta sleep.
You guys have a good night or morning.
Yes some coolers have water.
The other dude said ALL, he bolded it too.
I'm saying not all have water.

Peace.

Capillary effect, same as the sponge analogy I used before.

Just imagine a sponge in an enclosed chamber, at one end the liquid starts boiling, vapor goes up, turn into a liquid again and works it's way down until it starts to boil again.

Then if you cut a pipe open, there better be evidence of water.

 

[Vya Domus]

If it's air tight then it removes the moisture because the water tuns into a gas, I already explained it. In a heatpipe you stop before that happens, you want the water to remain liquid at room temperature.

Then if you cut a pipe open, there better be evidence of water.

There is evidence of it, already explained it.

I already explained to you the inside of a heat pipe is porous, it's like putting a drop of water on a sponge, you would never be able to tell that there is some water in there unless you squeeze it. You can't really squeeze copper can you ? If you open a heat pipe in an enclosed chamber and increase the temperature eventually the little water that is in there will condense on it's walls.

 

[AusWolf]

The way you put is as "There has never been any need for a custom loop in a regular home PC, ever" is why I replied as I did.
That was a stated as an absolute - Especially with the word "Ever" defining it as such, which we both know it isn't.

There is no confusion between want and need here, I also said the choice of what to get is up to the user, not anyone here. On that point, that's why I went with a custom loop when I did, it was my choice to do it if I wanted to, so I did.

Yes, an aircooler would have sufficed but I wanted a bit more cooling capability and got it - That choice was mine and yes, I made it.
Why is that even a problem?


There you go again, calling an expectation "Unreasonable" and saying it as an absolute.
That's your opinion of it and that's all it is because.....

That's NOT up to you to decide - I'll say it again, the user/owner IS the only one that determines what the need, want or expectation is in the first place. If they want to go overboard, "Bon Voyage" and happy gaming or whatever they want to do.
In other words build it like you want, it's up to you and no one else - I certainly will and won't ask permission to either, just as you don't need anyone else's permission to do the same.

So you admit that you didn't need a custom loop, but you wanted one. In fact, your entire post describes wants, not needs. There is absolutely nothing wrong with acting on your wants, and not your needs, and going overboard when building a PC. Did I need to swap my 7700X for a 7800X3D? Did I ever need 48 GB RAM at any point? Totally not! I just have them because why not. This is what a want is, not a need.

So yes, I stick to my point that custom loop water cooling has never been necessary for a regular home PC, ever. Lots of people have wanted it, and lots of people will want it for various purposes, and there's nothing wrong with that, but that's not a need.

To illustrate what I mean, sports cars (that I absolutely love) would not exist if we always acted on our needs only. Wants make us who we are. But we shouldn't pretend that they're needs.

 

[Vya Domus]

There are very few instances where custom loops are necessary, like if you have one of those 64+ core threadrippers which draw >400W and you need to squeeze every bit of performance out of it.

 

[AusWolf]

There are very few instances where custom loops are necessary, like if you have one of those 64+ core threadrippers which draw >400W and you need to squeeze every bit of performance out of it.

Why would you need to squeeze every bit of performance out of it? Efficiency is key for datacentres. If you want to, then sure, go ahead.

 

[BoggledBeagle]

Sometimes you just need to fit 4 graphic cards close together:

(I am not the guy in video)

 

[Vya Domus]

Why would you need to squeeze every bit of performance out of it? Efficiency is key for datacentres. If you want to, then sure, go ahead.

I am talking regular consumers.

 

[AusWolf]

I am talking regular consumers.

And why would regular consumers need to OC a 64+ core Threadripper?

 

[Vya Domus]

And why would regular consumers need to OC a 64+ core Threadripper?

To get the best performance out of it for things like rendering ?

 

[AusWolf]

To get the best performance out of it for things like rendering ?

I fail to see how that's a need, and not a want at such a high performance level to begin with.

 

[damric]

The one weird air cooler is the ProSiphon. I believe it contains something like liquid propane as the working fluid. And it uses all aluminum maybe because the fluid would react with copper.

 

[dgianstefani]

The one weird air cooler is the ProSiphon. I believe it contains something like liquid propane as the working fluid. And it uses all aluminum maybe because the fluid would react with copper.

I thought about mentioning this before.

Seems solid, some of the advantages of liquid cooling with none of the downsides of an aio. Big and heavy though, and performance isn't much better than standard air.

 

[damric]

I thought about mentioning this before.

Seems solid, some of the advantages of liquid cooling with none of the downsides of an aio. Big and heavy though, and performance isn't much better than standard air.

Yeah when I tested one, I came to the conclusion that it doesn't handle small area high heat density nearly as well as water cooling. But for older, larger die chips it worked great, and can even passively cool.

 

[Totally]

Funny enough, there wasn't much overlap between AIOs and custom loops. So no. Those whe wanted to go custom loop but went the AIO route went custom loop anyway.

 

[FoulOnWhite]

I admit that i did not need the custom loop and it was mostly out of cosmetic reasons. At the time i got the 12700k there were a fair few saying they used a million watts and needed really good cooling, but that is just wrong. Any CPU will use a lot of power if pushed to the max, but for just gaming and general use, the 12700k runs pretty cool and does not use a lot of power. I think that is kinda why i built the loop, and i do think GPU's do benefit from a custom loop. They are definatley not need by most PC's and only some very high end rigs need it.

 

[Bones]

So you admit that you didn't need a custom loop, but you wanted one. In fact, your entire post describes wants, not needs. There is absolutely nothing wrong with acting on your wants, and not your needs, and going overboard when building a PC. Did I need to swap my 7700X for a 7800X3D? Did I ever need 48 GB RAM at any point? Totally not! I just have them because why not. This is what a want is, not a need.

So yes, I stick to my point that custom loop water cooling has never been necessary for a regular home PC, ever. Lots of people have wanted it, and lots of people will want it for various purposes, and there's nothing wrong with that, but that's not a need.

To illustrate what I mean, sports cars (that I absolutely love) would not exist if we always acted on our needs only. Wants make us who we are. But we shouldn't pretend that they're needs.

OK - Let's pump the brakes here for a sec.
There is clearly a misunderstanding going on here between the two of us and TBH, this isn't helping the thread at all.

I've said what I've said and so have you...
That's fair enough but if you want to continue with it, let's at least take it to PM's and out of this thread.

 

[Vya Domus]

I fail to see how that's a need, and not a want at such a high performance level to begin with.

It's necessary if you need the most performance, you're not gonna cool that with an AIO.

 

[xmanrigger]

It's a CoolIT unit so I'd guess around 5 years without service, but if you clean it and change the coolant every 2-3 years it'd probably last a lot longer.
Who knows about warranty though.

CoolIt was one of the first to step into AIOs. They might not have made the first AIO, but they made some of the first reliable ones that I ever seen. I had their coolers stuck on Pentium3 CPUs. Hell, I have a Core2 Duo system still rocking a CoolIt. I had one of their early TEC coolers as well. It had mixed results.
The first AIO I ever bought was an offering from Coolermaster. If I remember correctly, I had this bolted to a PentiumD.

You can't leave the water behind.

Look, it's like building an SS or cascade unit. You vacuum to remove moisture which is in air.

These types of tubes actually contain no water.

Do tell how they leave the water in while running a vacuum. It's impossible.


Context?

Also, with an addition to, using a liquid in a heat pipe also requires use of orientation.

That means heat pipes with a liquid work best from ground earth up. (vertically)

Since heatpipes in cpu coolers have all sorts of bends, it is not likely to contain any liquids at all.

Especially since you're probably looking up if a vacuum removes moisture from enclosures, you bet your butt it does. Context or not.

additional comment:

Tell you what.

The video is wrong. Or I'm wrong.

The vacuum process would be first, then inject a liquid. You will loose some vacuum in the process. Raising the boiling point. Which depending on volume, this could matter. The liquid would turn vapor at a higher temperature.

Since the video exclaims, but never demonstrates installing any type of liquid, then saying vacuumed AFTER putting in the water, twice in fact< would mean they extracted the water and it was a waste of time to put water in the pipe in the first place.

So that's Devil's advocate there.

So far, from what I can tell, we have no actual PROOF (YET) of any liquid in a heat pipe used in cpu coolers unless we can find some accurate evidence of this from actual manufacturing process. Which is what I'm looking for.

But lastly, I will digress here. This is not on topic for CPU cooling with AIO's that did not kill custom water loops.

Yes, you absolutely can leave any and all fluid behind when putting a chamber or such under vacuum. Some vapor will be extracted if present, but that is all other than air.

If you are correct, then why doesnt my vacuum pump (25 TORR) connected to my rotovap not suck out all the liquid ethanol solution. Or when my fractional still is under vacuum (25 TORR)? Or vacuum filtering the solution? 25 TORR is a pretty heavy vacuum considering 760 TORR is atmospheric pressure.

As far as any liquid in a heat pipe, please do a little more research.

Disclaimer: I live in Canada. Cannabis is legal. I make high quality premium FSO for my own personal use.
Vacuum Filtering:

Vacuum Filtering ethanol solution

Vacuum filtering ethanol/cannabis solution prior to rotovap

youtube.com

Thought I would throw this in for shits and giggles. Looks pretty cool. This is the last bit of ethanol purging from the cannabis extract. This is inside the rotovap at 38C-40C and 25 TORR:

Purging extract in rotovap

Purging ethanol from concentrate inside rotovap

youtube.com

(not sure why, but forum wouldnt let me embed the videos)

Air cooling:
The issue I see with air cooling today's CPUs, AMD or Intel, is the shear size of the cooler itself. These coolers are so enormous, they put a heavy strain on the mobo. It is to the point that some CPU air coolers need to be suspended from the top of the PC case as well. Just as today's monstrous video cards now require a support underneath to alleviate the sag.

 

[ShrimpBrime]

CoolIt was one of the first to step into AIOs. They might not have made the first AIO, but they made some of the first reliable ones that I ever seen. I had their coolers stuck on Pentium3 CPUs. Hell, I have a Core2 Duo system still rocking a CoolIt. I had one of their early TEC coolers as well. It had mixed results.
The first AIO I ever bought was an offering from Coolermaster. If I remember correctly, I had this bolted to a PentiumD.
View attachment 331904


Yes, you absolutely can leave any and all fluid behind when putting a chamber or such under vacuum. Some vapor will be extracted if present, but that is all other than air.

If you are correct, then why doesnt my vacuum pump (25 TORR) connected to my rotovap not suck out all the liquid ethanol solution. Or when my fractional still is under vacuum (25 TORR)? Or vacuum filtering the solution? 25 TORR is a pretty heavy vacuum considering 760 TORR is atmospheric pressure.

As far as any liquid in a heat pipe, please do a little more research.

Disclaimer: I live in Canada. Cannabis is legal. I make high quality premium FSO for my own personal use.
Vacuum Filtering:

Vacuum Filtering ethanol solution

Vacuum filtering ethanol/cannabis solution prior to rotovap

youtube.com

Thought I would throw this in for shits and giggles. Looks pretty cool. This is the last bit of ethanol purging from the cannabis extract. This is inside the rotovap at 38C-40C and 25 TORR:

Purging extract in rotovap

Purging ethanol from concentrate inside rotovap

youtube.com

(not sure why, but forum wouldnt let me embed the videos)

Air cooling:
The issue I see with air cooling today's CPUs, AMD or Intel, is the shear size of the cooler itself. These coolers are so enormous, they put a heavy strain on the mobo. It is to the point that some CPU air coolers need to be suspended from the top of the PC case as well. Just as today's monstrous video cards now require a support underneath to alleviate the sag.

Because it may take 30 minutes to evac your system, but I don't know the volume to make accurate guesses.

I evac A/C systems quite a bit. The longer the pump runs the better to ensure no water vapor is in the system.

I'd imagine in a 6 inch tube with 1mm diameter space, it would take seconds to evac water vapor.

As I had stated, it would be easier to evac first, then inject while under a vacuum. But the volume inside is quite small.

Not that it matters. There's some information from many years ago out there that some heatpipes actually don't have or cannot be determined if there's actually liquids.

I believe it was OCZ that said there was for sure liquid in their memory cooler heat pipes, dating early 2000s on ddr2. The claim was true once the pipe was opened and the water came out. Then a bunch of other heat pipes that where feom boards and coolers. All having different wick designs. Some did show signs of moisture, copper tends to change Colo in the presence of water. And some heat pipes are pressurized gasses, some seem to have nothing but wick.

Is a heatpipe turned horizontally going to work at its best efficiency? No. This is demonstrated in links already provided in this thread.

In the end, you're right, I'm wrong. I have accepted that already

 

[DaemonForce]

Aluminum radiators in nearly every vehicle on the road...

Lol not mine. From the swamps to Death Valley, you're gonna want copper.

The custom watercooling rig is so heavy that any maintenance work is just back-breaking (taking the rig outside for dusting, replacing water, upgrading parts, etc...).

This is one of the reasons I decided drilling out drive cages was a good idea. I have one of those modified Antec server tower chassis that were all steel manufactured BEFORE going full aluminum to cut costs. Expensive AND a chonker. Imagine.

Also imagine trying to impress anyone other than HWBot with those big coolers. Couldn't be me. (=ﾟωﾟ)

The first AIO I ever bought was an offering from Coolermaster. If I remember correctly, I had this bolted to a PentiumD.
View attachment 331904

Welp, guess it's time for the quad core chiller.

Disclaimer: This is a terrible idea (but not the worst). (/・ω・)/

One of the worst things about liquid cooling is topping off an auto radiator. De-bubbling the system (air purge) to avoid specific types of cooling system damage is a chore. It's a bigger chore when you have a steel stamped chonker but nothing compared to the trauma of having to replace parts over something stupid. I make peace with that possibility before getting into it but it's obvious some of ya'll won't do that.

 

[lexluthermiester]

You can't leave the water behind.

Look, it's like building an SS or cascade unit. You vacuum to remove moisture which is in air.

These types of tubes actually contain no water.

Do tell how they leave the water in while running a vacuum. It's impossible.


Context?

Also, with an addition to, using a liquid in a heat pipe also requires use of orientation.

That means heat pipes with a liquid work best from ground earth up. (vertically)

Since heatpipes in cpu coolers have all sorts of bends, it is not likely to contain any liquids at all.

Especially since you're probably looking up if a vacuum removes moisture from enclosures, you bet your butt it does. Context or not.

additional comment:

Tell you what.

The video is wrong. Or I'm wrong.

The vacuum process would be first, then inject a liquid. You will loose some vacuum in the process. Raising the boiling point. Which depending on volume, this could matter. The liquid would turn vapor at a higher temperature.

Since the video exclaims, but never demonstrates installing any type of liquid, then saying vacuumed AFTER putting in the water, twice in fact< would mean they extracted the water and it was a waste of time to put water in the pipe in the first place.

So that's Devil's advocate there.

So far, from what I can tell, we have no actual PROOF (YET) of any liquid in a heat pipe used in cpu coolers unless we can find some accurate evidence of this from actual manufacturing process. Which is what I'm looking for.

But lastly, I will digress here. This is not on topic for CPU cooling with AIO's that did not kill custom water loops.

In short, that is incorrect. Heatpipes do not work without water. Full stop. The end... But you're right, let's get back to the topic..

If I can figure the actual viscosity it may be DOT 4 Brake fluid may be a winner here. Never heard of any brake fluid harming rubber.

I wonder if that would work? Ever tried it?

 

[Dragam1337]

I admit that i did not need the custom loop and it was mostly out of cosmetic reasons.

If people are being honest, that's practically always what custom loops are really about.

 

[ShrimpBrime]

In short, that is incorrect. Heatpipes do not work without water. Full stop. The end... But you're right, let's get back to the topic..

Well according to yourself and others, heat pipes have water and boils it and is essentially water cooling.

So, it's actually on topic then.
That means I deny the end you want to request because when I requested it 2 pages back, was denied. K, fair game.

---------

I do have a hyper 212 and 108mp camera on my phone, if need be break out the old dlsr camera.

Time is my only concern.

I'll cut that bitch open running 150w or something, but I don't think It will handle a 13700K in the first place. Board is on the bench horizontal. That would suffice orientation.

Would rather do something constructive honestly than bicker back and forth.

Will it cool differently?
Will we see a vapor escape after the tube pressurizes?
Will temps sky rocker?
How many coolers can I test. I got 2 only.