UPS questions

[Dr. Dro]

No way. That's way overkill. And besides, the OP already said,

Well, that will depend on what OP is doing at the time of the power cutoff. A 1500 VA UPS should indeed have about 2-3 mins of runtime with that PC under full load (my rough estimates). I guess that works

 

[Toss]

I have 6 kw UPS and 16 KWh battery for it. LUL. My whole house is powered by it.

Can run FURMARK with RTX 5090 for 20 hours ez
Price only 3000$

 

[Bill_Bright]

It costs millions for a backup generator.

Must be a HUGE facility! I note a decent 30KW dual power whole house (and that's a VERY BIG house!) generator can be purchased and installed for less than $20,000. And that will easily support the whole house AC, washer and electric dryer, electric hot water heater, fridge and separate deep freeze, multiple TVs, multiple computers, toaster, coffee pot, stove/oven, MW oven, lights and more.

Now that is nothing compared to large data centers which can consume as much as small towns. I note R&D is going on right now to use SMRs (Small Modular nuclear Reactors) to power large data centers!

Of course backup generators don't have to support entire buildings. They can be wired to just support a server room and emergency lighting, for example, thus requiring a smaller gen. Many setups have only 1 or 2 outlets per room supported. But then you start getting into more complex wiring with this circuit supported and that circuit not - so soon, the labor costs far exceed the hardware.

A 1500 VA UPS should indeed have about 2-3 mins of runtime with that PC under full load (my rough estimates).

Very rough. 1500VA will support that PC, even under full load, for considerably longer than 2 - 3 minutes - assuming good batteries. As I noted earlier, the 1500VA UPS on this system (including 2 monitors, the modem and wireless router) will provide an estimated 42 minutes of run time. If I ramp up demand by running a stress test, I still have over 20 minutes.

But once again, the plan should NOT be to keep playing ones game. So as soon as the power goes off, gaming should stop and shutdown process started. Just the act of stopping game play will put the computer's power consumption closer to idle than full load.

Also, while power outage can occur on a clear sunny day, most are during severe storms - when folks should not really be playing games anyway.

 

[TechBuyingHavoc]

Side note. I just replaced mine. Be sure to ask for "Class 4 Impact Resistant" shingles. In my case, they added just $400 to the total cost of materials for the roof (they do NOT affect/increase labor costs).

HOWEVER, after providing proof of the Class 4 shingles, my homeowner's insurance immediately dropped $1,000 per year! And because we typically pay that insurance in advance into an escrow account, my insurance company actually sent me a $949.59 "overpayment" refund.

This is why I love your posts, I come in here to read about UPS information and learn that I should be getting a certain type of shingles for my roof repairs.

 

[Bill_Bright]

LOL Yeah, I do wander off topic a bit at times. Sorry about that.

And note it was somewhat - loosely! - related because the same storm that took out my roof with hail and 90mph winds also knocked out power to 100,000 customers in my area (that's where the UPS tie into all this!).

 

[Dr. Dro]

Very rough. 1500VA will support that PC, even under full load, for considerably longer than 2 - 3 minutes - assuming good batteries. As I noted earlier, the 1500VA UPS on this system (including 2 monitors, the modem and wireless router) will provide an estimated 42 minutes of run time. If I ramp up demand by running a stress test, I still have over 20 minutes.

But once again, the plan should NOT be to keep playing ones game. So as soon as the power goes off, gaming should stop and shutdown process started. Just the act of stopping game play will put the computer's power consumption closer to idle than full load.

Also, while power outage can occur on a clear sunny day, most are during severe storms - when folks should not really be playing games anyway.

I calculated full load for that setup at around 800-900 W, looks like I was about right according to this calc

Runtime Calculator

CyberPower power runtime calculating tool for consumers and IT professionals.

www.cyberpowersystems.com

Of course, less load = more runtime.

 

[Bill_Bright]

Sorry, I lied. The July 31st, 2024 storm took out power to 214,000 customers, not 100,000.

I calculated

I am not saying your calculations are wrong. I am saying, unless absolutely "mission critical", people need to stop what they doing if there is a power outage. That means, stop playing games! Like NOW! And that WILL give them much more time to save what they are doing, close out their open programs, "gracefully" shutdown Windows, then properly shut off the computer. Doing that as quickly as possible will then, if also supported by the UPS, keep their modem and wifi network up and running to allow them to keep using the internet for awhile to do such things like keep tabs on the storm that took out their power!

 

[Dr. Dro]

Haha, I'm incredibly bad at math, I'm glad I got that right

 

[Bill_Bright]

Oh, and guess what stayed up during the 4 days I was without power after that storm? Not my nearby cell tower! No! That went down after about 4 hours. My landline phone! So call me a luddite. I don't care! lol

 

[uber_m0j0]

Thanks for all the suggestions and information! I knew you folk would be helpful!
I'm going with the CyberPowerUPS next trip to Microcenter, thanks again!

 

[Bill_Bright]

One problem with just about every UPS I have used is the spacing in back between the outlets for your devices' power plugs (especially those with wall warts) it not enough. I found these 18 inch 4-way spider extension cords and these 8 inch single extension cords to be invaluable.

 

[Shrek]

Side note. I just replaced mine. Be sure to ask for "Class 4 Impact Resistant" shingles. In my case, they added just $400 to the total cost of materials for the roof (they do NOT affect/increase labor costs).

HOWEVER, after providing proof of the Class 4 shingles, my homeowner's insurance immediately dropped $1,000 per year!

Way off topic, but incredibly useful information!

 

[kDude]

Thanks for all the suggestions and information! I knew you folk would be helpful!
I'm going with the CyberPowerUPS next trip to Microcenter, thanks again!

Which UPS are you going to get out of curiosity?I'm thinking of building almost a copy of your rig.Same 1000W PSU.
Edit:Nvm just realized the cyberpower link sends you to the one you choose.Reckon 900W is enough for the PC and a monitor even with a 1000W PSU?I'm also planning to have it just incase blackouts happens so I have enough time to turn off the PC myself.

 

[Shrek]

I would avoid this one

UPS Electrical Failure - Teardown and Analysis!

 

[Bill_Bright]

Which UPS are you going to get out of curiosity?

Ummm, he said which one - you just quoted a link to it.

I would avoid this one

True but it should be noted that video was from a couple years ago and the reviewer did note that was only one out of several he had that failed.

I definitely not trying to minimize the problem. Just pointing out it is not really an issue here.

 

[kDude]

you dont need more VA for that, even 1500 is enough. just more batteries...

Been trying to a get PSU for a future PC (Pretty much carbon copy of OP.Maybe a bit hungrier) and local shops dissuaded me from getting this https://www.xpert.mt/powerwalker-vi-1500-csw-iecuk-art-no-10121129 and suggested something in the 1000W range because a monitor would be attached to it.I have a 27inch del monitor which can go as high as 90W from it's spec sheet.Still reckon it's a good idea?Man id doesn't help where I live the selection for Pure sinewave UPS is kinda meh and even ordering online is a bit complicated because of where I live

 

[Bill_Bright]

You really should start your own thread. Be sure to post your system specs (or your intended specs), especially CPU and graphics, and your monitor model number.

I disagree with your local shops. 1500VA/900W is big. And 27" monitors typically consume a maximum that is less than 50W, some as little as 20W. I don't see any Dell listed here that draws more than 38W.

I note my 1500VA UPS supports my computer and two 24" monitors and all my network gear just fine.

And once again - don't get hung up on pure sinewave. Today's 1/2 way decent power supplies don't care. Remember, the UPS only generates its output waveform when there is a total power outage and running on battery. At all other times, the waveform is the that which comes off the grid - typically unchanged.

 

[kDude]

I disagree with your local shops. 1500VA/900W is big. And 27" monitors typically consume a maximum that is less than 50W, some as little as 20W. I don't see any Dell listed here that draws more than 38W.

27" Dell S2721DGF - Power consumption

Information about the power consumption of Dell S2721DGF. This model is also known as Dell S2721DGFA.

www.displayspecifications.com

And once again - don't get hung up on pure sinewave. Today's 1/2 way decent power supplies don't care. Remember, the UPS only generates its output waveform when there is a total power outage and running on battery. At all other times, the waveform is the that which comes off the grid - typically unchanged.

If not having pure sinewave isn't that really big of a deal i might just get something like this then https://www.techstoreltd.com/powerwalker-vi-2200-stl-uk-art-no-10121089
Kinda odd tho because from the information I found on the internet active PFC on the PSU (which is most dcent PSU's)=Pure sinewave UPS or you will have issues.

 

[Bill_Bright]

Kinda odd tho because from the information I found on the internet active PFC on the PSU (which is most dcent PSU's)=Pure sinewave UPS or you will have issues.

It's not odd. It is hogwash. Please read through the whole thread - or at least post #6 so we don't have to rehash the same stuff over and over again.

The "marketing hype" about pure sinewave UPS is just that, marketing hype. "In theory", is a pure sinewave wave form better than a stepped approximated or simulated sinewave waveform? Yes.

But "in reality", do we "need" a pure sinewave waveform UPS. NO! Absolutely NOT! The people pushing that nonsense are the makers of pure sinewave UPS and those who fell hook, line and sinker for their hype.

When it comes to home and office electronics, the ONLY people who "might" actually need a pure sinewave UPS are those who's life (literally - as in maintaining a their beating heart) depends on critical life support and monitoring equipment.

Active PFC PSUs are nothing new. So there's no reason they suddenly need pure sinewave UPS either.

I am no familiar with the PowerWalker brand but the specs of that UPS are good. Particularly, the transfer time of just 4ms is exceptional. The description does not mention AVR (automatic voltage regulation) but does say it protects against voltage disturbances. Perhaps that is what they mean. I would verify it has AVR before spending money.

I note here in the US, the term AVR is commonly used, even among the major competitors like APC, CyberPower and Eaton/Tripp Lite. Not sure why PowerWalker does not.

 

[R-T-B]

I would avoid this one

UPS Electrical Failure - Teardown and Analysis!

I actually own a UPS from that date range and came in the same series, packing style (serialized test report on a thermal paper attached to the box) and everything.

It's been fine, but I'd certainly say you can do better. With UPS's there's plenty of marketable products, so if there is any uncertainty, just move on and pick another one.

PS: Said UPS only powers my network gear now, and I'm there often, so if something happens, I know...

 

[EsaT]

I am no familiar with the PowerWalker brand but the specs of that UPS are good. Particularly, the transfer time of just 4ms is exceptional. The description does not mention AVR (automatic voltage regulation) but does say it protects against voltage disturbances. Perhaps that is what they mean. I would verify it has AVR before spending money.

Here's review of one PowerWalker UPS:

The PowerWalker VI 1500 CSW UPS Review: Trying For True Sinewave on a Budget

www.anandtech.com

Its inverter seems to be having "signal clipping" issues when load increases...

And transfer time to battery power is nearly 20ms.
Video has also some teardown.
That channel has also couple other PowerWalker reviews.

 

[Bill_Bright]

Nearly 20ms transfer time is horrendous! Especially since the manufacturer claims 4ms.

For sure, I would advise against buying that UPS without significant research first.

Note the ATX Form Factor standard requires all ATX PSUs to maintain output ("hold up") voltage in the event of a power loss for 12ms at 100% of full load, and recommends a minimum of 17ms with an 80% load.

If that nearly 20ms is typical for that UPS (and that reviewer didn't just get a faulty one), then that clearly is unacceptable as the computer will indeed come crashing down, totally defeating one of the main reasons for having an UPS (besides the AVR).

 

[Shrek]

PowerWalker VI 1500 CSW UPS Review
16W in standby, that is going to cost maybe $20 a year or more.

 

[kDude]

I am no familiar with the PowerWalker brand but the specs of that UPS are good. Particularly, the transfer time of just 4ms is exceptional. The description does not mention AVR (automatic voltage regulation) but does say it protects against voltage disturbances. Perhaps that is what they mean. I would verify it has AVR before spending money.

https://powerwalker.com/product/10121089/ it does indeed have AVR.Thanks for the help!

 

[Bill_Bright]

Well boost and buck certainly are voltage regulation steps, but when it comes to UPS, AVR typically means much more than that. But okay. I accept they mean the same thing and that is good. But again, if the response time is that bad, you really don't want that on your computer. 19+ ms is way too long.