ThrottleStop - 14900HX, 4090RTX MSI laptop

[oas]

Hello,

Little background:
My laptop MSI Raider GE78HX with I9 14900hx, 4090 rtx, 64gb ram.
I have removed the back panel of the laptop, removed paint from heat pipes and applied thermal pads and additional heatsinks + it's sitting on a iets GT600 (modified) air cooler mostly on high settings as I wear noise cancelling headphones and this doesn't bother me.

My goal is higher performance mainly in games - fps oriented.

I have used two apps to achieve my goal:
- Afterburner I managed to reach 230 mhz clock and 1450 memory. It is tested and stable when gaming.

-ThrottleStop still playing around settings. Yesterday managed to run -160 on core and Pcore and -0.92 on e cache but today it gave me blue screens so I turned it down.

Problem im having is all my benchmark scores are very low compared to other people laptops with similar hardware and settings.
I only see my package power draw to pull 120-130w and the other times it's 200w and high score but with this much power draw when doing 10 minute cinebench I get blue screen.
Pl1 and pl2 set to 999.

Not sure why sometimes it's only pulling 120-130 and sometimes it goes to 200...

V/F setting 800hz set to 160

I attached my settings.

Thank you

 

[unclewebb]

managed to run -160 on core and Pcore

I found that -160 mV was not 100% stable so I settled on -150 mV for the Core and the P Cache. I have not yet experimented with undervolting the E cache.

Not sure why sometimes it's only pulling 120-130 and sometimes it goes to 200...

The problem my MSI Vector has is that as soon as the Nvidia GPU becomes active, the maximum CPU turbo power limits change. I am assuming that this lower power limit is being enforced by an embedded controller EC. ThrottleStop only has access to the MSR and MMIO turbo power limits. ThrottleStop does not have access to the EC turbo power limits. Setting the MSR and MMIO power limits sky high does not accomplish anything. If the EC power limits are lower, the EC power limits will be in control of the CPU.

all my benchmark scores are very low compared to other people laptops with similar hardware and settings

Do you have MSI Center installed? The EC power limits can be modified by this app. I hate MSI Center. It is a big bloated mess of a program and worst of all, it constantly updates itself. Even if you find an older version that you can use, it will update itself and screw everything up. Checking the do not update box in MSI Center is ignored. I have not yet found a solution for the problems MSI Center creates. The EC power limits will vary depending on if MSI Center is installed or not. It is likely that the turbo power limits also vary depending on what version of MSI Center you have installed.

I was able to get some really good Cinebench runs in by making sure that nothing was activating the Nvidia GPU. If you do not do that, you will have to completely disable the Nvidia GPU so the EC power limits do not kill performance. This trick is OK for Cinebench but obviously no one wants to disable the Nvidia GPU when playing a game or running a benchmark that needs to use the Nvidia GPU.

Mixed feelings about my MSI Vector. I only have the Nvidia 4070. It too has been power limit gimped so it is performing below expectations in 3D Mark. It is a frustrating laptop. Lots of potential but too many hidden power limits. This is not just a MSI problem. All modern laptops seem to have a variety of limitations like this.

Edit - Lots of Cinebench potential when everything is just right.

 

[oas]

Yes I have MSI center. Never used it. It's constantly update / install itself and I cannot even enter.

 

[unclewebb]

The most recent MSI Center update was so messed up that I had to uninstall it completely. Now I have no fan control. If you do get it installed and working, you have to set it to Extreme Performance. That is all I know. This helps avoid some of the power limit issues, at least when the Nvidia GPU is inactive.

 

[oas]

New settings i have been testing today and seems very stable. again package power goes max to 120-125w.

Is this FID table looking correct ? maxing out at 42.00. that means my cpu core goes to max 4200mhz ? shouldn't it go all the way up to 5800mhz ?

 

[oas]

Not exactly sure how to rise this number

 

[unclewebb]

Is this FID table looking correct ? maxing out at 42.00.

Other users have reported a similar problem where the maximum multiplier gets locked to a reduced frequency. I have not been able to figure out why this might be happening. It could possibly be a bug in ThrottleStop but this never happens to my 14900HX. It might be related to how ThrottleStop interacts with some other CPU control software that is running on your computer.

Try using ThrottleStop 9.7.3

The new version has a feature where you can access the Per Core turbo values.

Make sure those are set to Defaults or to Max. Check the Use Limits box. I do not think the reduced multiplier problem is related to this but it is worth checking.

In the TPL window check the Speed Shift box and set Speed Shift Max to the recommended value, 108. You can also set Speed Shift Max to the max, 255.

 

[oas]

found it, here how it looks like:

For anyone else with this problem I fixed it by unchecking mimo lock.

Here are my new stable settings with new improved cinebench score. I will test it for few days and tweak it a little bit here and there.

 

[unclewebb]

I fixed it by unchecking mimo lock

It is definitely an odd bug. On some laptops, the CPU multiplier can get stuck when MMIO Lock is checked. I always have MMIO Lock checked and I never have this problem. This bug is a mystery. Not checking MMIO Lock is a simple fix.

new improved cinebench score

The only way I can get a really good score in Cinebench is to go outside. Some cool air in the low single digits °C adds about 4000 points to my Cinebench scores compared to normal room temperature.

 

[SQLG0d]

If you have access to Smokeless_UMAF (or go the hard route to explicitly determine the appropriate byte numbers) you could both view and then perhaps change the 42 value that doesn't seem to save to where you want it to be. I don't know if that is possible or if it would provide UncleWebb with any useful information. It is also non-zero risk. :-O

 

[oas]

It is definitely an odd bug. On some laptops, the CPU multiplier can get stuck when MMIO Lock is checked. I always have MMIO Lock checked and I never have this problem. This bug is a mystery. Not checking MMIO Lock is a simple fix.


The only way I can get a really good score in Cinebench is to go outside. Some cool air in the low single digits °C adds about 4000 points to my Cinebench scores compared to normal room temperature.

My gaming setup is in air-conditioned basement, it's fairly chilly plus like I said I have the back of the laptop removed and added heatsinks. Temps don't pass 80c from what I see when benchmarking.

I could probably rise multiplier to get that short burst of power (200w instead of 175w) but then I get the red "power" blinking. I don't think it's stable this way. Limiting it to 175w with 35k+ score works for gaming and it's been stable so far

 

[eniva]

have removed the back panel of the laptop, removed paint from heat pipes and applied thermal pads and additional heatsinks + it's sitting on a iets GT600 (modified) air cooler mostly on high settings as I wear noise cancelling headphones and this doesn't bother me.

I'm interested in this modification. Could you provide images of how you installed and where you placed the additional pads and heatsinks?

With my MSI, I don't get such good temperatures in games (always around 90°C), and even swapping the PTM pads for graphene improves things a bit.

 

[A&P211]

If you guys dont know but MSI has advanced bios where you can overclock the ram or enabled ZMP if your ram supports it. In the bios you can also undervolt the processor and adjust ram timings.

 

[oas]

I'm interested in this modification. Could you provide images of how you installed and where you placed the additional pads and heatsinks?

With my MSI, I don't get such good temperatures in games (always around 90°C), and even swapping the PTM pads for graphene improves things a bit.

The main heatsink of the processor and GPU right in the middle I put one big block of copper heatsink and 2 smaller ones on the sides. I know ideal would be to solder it but I didn't want to risk it so I just glued it using thermal glue and the smaller ones using thermal tape when gaming they are getting quite hot and right underneath sits air cooler.

Ram and SSD also received heatsinks. It's ugly , the back panel is removed, heatsinks are sticking out so laptop is suspended on plastic spacers. Seems to be working. I have been playing different games for few days now and no issues with above settings. 0 thermal throttling.

 

[eniva]

The main heatsink of the processor and GPU right in the middle I put one big block of copper heatsink and 2 smaller ones on the sides. I know ideal would be to solder it but I didn't want to risk it so I just glued it using thermal glue and the smaller ones using thermal tape when gaming they are getting quite hot and right underneath sits air cooler.

Ram and SSD also received heatsinks. It's ugly , the back panel is removed, heatsinks are sticking out so laptop is suspended on plastic spacers. Seems to be working. I have been playing different games for few days now and no issues with above settings. 0 thermal throttling.

Thanks for the info. I've been looking at your base model. It looks great, although a bit pricey. I'll think about buying it.

What I did do was add another base that doesn't have a fan and moves the laptop a few centimeters away from the surface, and I've noticed that it improves temperatures. It seems the design of the case to collect air underneath isn't optimal.