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AMD Prepares 7nm "Renoir X" Processors Lacking Integrated Graphics, and "Vermeer S"

ARF said:
What is the purpose of Vermeer S then, if in 5 months they will release a new generation?
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You seem to have an idealistic approach to what to buy, only buy the fastest possible and wait for the next big thing.
That's fine, but you should respect the fact that there are a lot of people that don't have that kind of money,
especially these days when graphics cards cost as much as they do.

The way I see it, with some repeating:

- Vermeer S will work in boards that are incompatible with AM5, which makes them a possible great cost-effective upgrade.

- New systems will be cheaper than AM5 thanks to existing parts.

- Vermeer S and Raphael have probably been developed for years, meaning that whatever roadmap AMD may have had back then may have looked differently than today, where that time span could have been much more than 5 months. We simply don't know. AMD didn't plan on a 5 month gap from the beginning, I'm pretty sure about that.

- If anything bad would happen with the development of first AM5 CPU that would have caused a delay, Vermeer S would have been even more needed.

- The very fact that it's only 5 months in between is a good sign: AMD is on the right track with the next platform.

- 15 % faster in games is great! Last generation was 19 % according to AMD IIRC.

- We actually don't know much as of yet. No launch dates, no reviews, no prices, we know nothing about availability. ONLY RUMORS. That goes for both Vermeer S and Raphael.
 
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Mats said:
I agree.
Upgrading the CPU is a much cheaper solution than CPU + new board + DDR5. DDR5 is expensive and judging by the Intel reviews they're overpriced most of the time, without adding any performance uplifts.
Even buying a Vermeer S + board + RAM will be cheaper than the AM5 option.
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True, still use a APU from 2012/13 its much cheaper than CPU + new Board + DDR4:p
 
ARF said:
Why don't you buy the Ryzen 9 5900X now? Or in the last 12 months? It will be a very great upgrade anyways, and only the Ryzen 9 6900X, 6950X and 5950X will remain faster, all of them much more expensive.

AMD is narrow minded and inconsiderate.

Because these are people with large egos, but technically very limited skills and abilities, they drive the world to a catastrophe, pandemics, global warming, wars, poverty, global shortages of components, you name it.
But otherwise think they are great, great in another reality :D
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Are you really going to pull the "AMD is narrow minded" when Intel has done the same thing for years? I hear you can get your sight checked for cheap now.
 
Mats said:
A tip for anyone not wanting a Vermeer S: Do not buy it
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I'll be waiting for the AM5/DDR5 donation, or cost difference, whichever. It's a good upgrade to finish off a socket without murdering bank accounts or your parent's credit.
 
ARF said:
What is the purpose of Vermeer S then, if in 5 months they will release a new generation?
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Why do you say this when you say this a few comments later:
ARF said:
Why don't you buy the Ryzen 9 5900X now? Or in the last 12 months? It will be a very great upgrade anyways, and only the Ryzen 9 6900X, 6950X and 5950X will remain faster, all of them much more expensive.

AMD is narrow minded and inconsiderate.

Because these are people with large egos, but technically very limited skills and abilities, they drive the world to a catastrophe, pandemics, global warming, wars, poverty, global shortages of components, you name it.
But otherwise think they are great, great in another reality :D
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A 6900X will be an even better upgrade for someone in a few months from now than a 5900X will be now, and since they share the same platform, it kind of makes sense to wait if the need to upgrade isn't dire. If, when the 6xxx series comes out, and they're more expensive than the 5xxx series and provide negligible performance increases over the 5xxx's, then it's likely the 5xxx CPU's will be even cheaper than they are now, and be an even better deal, again, without the need for a change of platform.
 
Vermeer S is good for 30xx hold outs and lets be honest when "Raphael" comes out prolly wont be in stock, I waited 6 months to get 5950x at msrp and I live by Microcenter.
 
How is this a silly update. Zen 4 is 12 months away, they have a Zen3+ CPU ready to go in Q1 2022 that should have up to 15% uplift in performance. It is a direct plugin on X4xx and X5xx boards. Cost of entry will be much lower than Zen 4 which needs an all new MB and memory and no doubt CPU prices will increase again over Zen 3 as will board costs due to DDR5 support. It's not like its stealing wafers from Zen 4 either. Also means they get to test their 3D cache fully before Zen 4. The only silly thing would be for them to actually increase the price of Vermeer S relative to Vermeer IMO by more than $20.
 
I just need new threadripper................
 
They should have released Renoir to everyone on day 1, probably wouldn't be sitting on leftovers now.

As for Vermeer S, make me a Cezanne2, call it a 5750G or whatever, same specs as 5700g but with 64MB L3/3D/vertical/whatever cache for $350 CAD and I will buy one. Be nice if you could throw in RNDA 2 iGPU and enable ECC while you're at it :)
 
If anyone here wants to throw money at AMD after these allegations from the WSJ (behind paywall) back in 2019, which did not come to my attention (not that I'm buried in this industry 24/7) after discovering this thread over here on this site then let them make an informed decision.
Ethical consumerism is a real thing these days. I ain't trying to start a fanboi flame war here cause' Intel are not perfect saints either. But I believe in linking up the information out there so PC consumers can make up their own minds. The OP of that thread over on that site makes a VERY interesting point about why AMD could afford to move to 7nm before the mighty behemoth of Intel could ever do back at the time.
I'll repeat, NOT trying to start a flame war here, just putting it out there!
 
I think desktop Rembrandt would be more interesing than Vermeer 3d but a big part is just because it's the product I'd like to get. Hopefully both can happen?
Anyway, better cpus and this level of active competition is a good thing regardless

mechtech said:
They should have released Renoir to everyone on day 1, probably wouldn't be sitting on leftovers now.

As for Vermeer S, make me a Cezanne2, call it a 5750G or whatever, same specs as 5700g but with 64MB L3/3D/vertical/whatever cache for $350 CAD and I will buy one. Be nice if you could throw in RNDA 2 iGPU and enable ECC while you're at it :)
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The Renoir chips they'll allegedly recycle are the ones from laptops (the article mentions repackage as AM4 processors, so they currently aren't that, hence laptops) so the stupid oem exclusivity isn't a reason here

As for Vermeer S, I pretty much share your wishlist enterily
 
ARF said:
The problem with Vermeer S is that it's a dead end and the next generation Raphael will be launched fairly soon..

AMD has no problem in losing the "performance crown" because it's not important at all, unless you are willing to wave your willie...

The price of the products is the deciding factor.
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Hmm where have we seen this before...
Broadwell? Broadwell. Rare but I haven't heard those 1 1/2 owning it complain.
Rocket? Rocket. Tell a niche of OCers running DDR4-6000+ on that, how wrong they are. Preaching to a choir, but a choir that hits notes better ;)
 
I would so not buy any CPU without an IGP nowadays. Why? It's so useful for testing and troubleshooting as it's really useful for when you just need to get a picture and can use it to avoid a whole lot of potential hair pulling.

It's also nice to see how well it can play games. In particular, old games play pretty well on modern IGPs.
 
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Another good thing about the launch of Vermeer S is that the current Ryzen 5000 models will probably drop a bit in price. This usually never happens when the new CPU requires a new socket.

Remember the prices for used 7700K's not too long ago? The prices looked like the 8700K, 9900K or Ryzen didn't exist, and yes, in a way they're not relevant for those who wants to upgrade their current system.
That's why Vermeer S serves a bit of different purpose than Raphael, even though they're part of the same product series.

ARF said:
Why don't you buy the Ryzen 9 5900X now? Or in the last 12 months?
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What a lovely idea.

I bet no one can come up with a reason for not buying during that time.. :kookoo:

qubit said:
I would so not buy any CPU without an IGP nowadays. Why? It's so useful for testing and troubleshooting as it's really useful for when you just need to get a picture and can use it to avoid a whole lot of potential hair pulling.

It's also nice to see how well it can play games. In particular, old games play pretty well on modern IGPs.
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Yeah, AMD sure has some catching up to do here. In the AM3+ (and earlier) days you had to compromise on the motherboard to get onboard graphics,
and with AM4 you simply can't buy a premium CPU with an IGP without compromising on the CPU performance or price. This will change with AM5 AFAIK.
 
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AlwaysHope said:
If anyone here wants to throw money at AMD after these allegations from the WSJ (behind paywall) back in 2019, which did not come to my attention (not that I'm buried in this industry 24/7) after discovering this thread over here on this site then let them make an informed decision.
Ethical consumerism is a real thing these days. I ain't trying to start a fanboi flame war here cause' Intel are not perfect saints either. But I believe in linking up the information out there so PC consumers can make up their own minds. The OP of that thread over on that site makes a VERY interesting point about why AMD could afford to move to 7nm before the mighty behemoth of Intel could ever do back at the time.
I'll repeat, NOT trying to start a flame war here, just putting it out there!
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The article you linked to was a sensationalist article, and forum threads aren't exactly known for their... credibility. The wikipedia article from another user that replied earlier explains the deal just fine. A deal approved by the DoD at the time, one that took them 4 years to decide to change course. I hope I don't have to explain how long 4 years is, technology wise.

I guess my question to you is, what do you consider "ethical consumerism"? Is it just not buying anything from any company that does any business with/in China? You're going to be spreading yourself mighty thin with that. What about anti-consumerist practices, such as what Intel did in the late 2000's(https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...nst-1-4-billion-eu-fine-idUSKBN0EN0M120140612)? What AMD did was a deal directly approved by the DoD. It was simply capitalism. What intel did was blatant anti-consumerism. I guess you need to decide if buying from either company is "ethical".

Additionally, AMD could "afford" to move to 7nm because TSMC had it ready before intel, that is all. TSMC has nothing directly to do with AMD. AMD is just a customer.

In the future, I suggest you try not to get your information from random people on the internet unless they give you credible articles for the "information" they're providing.
 
I'd just like to remind everyone about feeding trolls:-

Don't!
 
These could be the company's first response to Intel Core "Alder Lake," although since they're based on the older AM4 platform, could only feature DDR4 and PCIe Gen 4.
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hehe, given the fact you cant buy DDR5 memory(sold out at most places) or PCIe 5 devices are far and wide between makes DDR4/PCIe4 a good choice XD
 
So confirmation of Vermeer S but no word of pricing yet?

I don't think anyone is expecting AMD to take the performance crown from Intel with Zen3+ but it'll probably close the gap enough that people will start looking and efficiency and performance/$. Alder Lake is somewhat efficient at lower clocks, but it isn't particularly cheap and that won't change until we get some B660 boards because the cheapest half-decent ones start at $230 and $300 is what I'd call something other than a barebones solution.

All AMD has to do is match Intel on performance/$ and they'll likely win on efficiency and tempt people with existing compatible boards, and possibly new customers with the wealth of decent-quality $150 boards for AM4.
 
Chrispy_ said:
So confirmation of Vermeer S but no word of pricing yet?

I don't think anyone is expecting AMD to take the performance crown from Intel with Zen3+ but it'll probably close the gap enough that people will start looking and efficiency and performance/$. Alder Lake is somewhat efficient at lower clocks, but it isn't particularly cheap and that won't change until we get some B660 boards because the cheapest half-decent ones start at $230 and $300 is what I'd call something other than a barebones solution.

All AMD has to do is match Intel on performance/$ and they'll likely win on efficiency and tempt people with existing compatible boards, and possibly new customers with the wealth of decent-quality $150 boards for AM4.
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My guess is that AMD will probably "paper launch" Verneer S with pricing & availability at CES next month.
Chips will then hopefully begin to land at retailers around March/April 2022.
 
ARF said:
The problem with Vermeer S is that it's a dead end and the next generation Raphael will be launched fairly soon..

AMD has no problem in losing the "performance crown" because it's not important at all, unless you are willing to wave your willie...

The price of the products is the deciding factor.
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I think there's no such thing as a dead end. If you own an X570, B550 or A520 system, Vermeer S will bring some uplift in performance.

If by "dead end" you mean no upgrades after a certain CPU generation, then everything is a dead end, as no platform offers any upgrades across more than 2, maybe 3 generations.

The value of a system depends on what you use it for, and not on how many generations of future CPUs you can put in it.

I for one, have an 11th gen Intel system. Is it a dead end? In your terms it maybe is, but as long as it does what it needs to do, I couldn't care less.
 
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