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12 Bit HDMI color output in Cat 14.6?

Well, my suspicions regarding Panasonic support were not only confirmed, it's worse than I anticipated. Definitely going with another brand next time. Their TV dept is tanking due to poor decisions on their part, and now their CS is sinking with it. The ironic thing is, despite their TV dept losing so much money they had to stop making their own LCD panels (buying them from LG now), from what I've read they've invested heavily in OLED/PLED and partnered with a big panel manufacturer in Japan to mass produce them. This is insane since they're already hurting financially, and OLED/PLED is not even proven in the mainstream market yet due to high prices and low lifespan.

The call
Nothing but an automated voice that eventually tells you you have to pay to talk to someone, due to your TV being past Panasonic's warranty period, and having no extended warranty coverage.

The live chat
I'm told Panasonic no longer has the specs on this set, then she clarifies that it's just the spec I'm looking for that is not available. When asked if I could get an email response from the engineers, she tells me even they would not have such specs. Before I could even respond as to my opinion on that, and Panasonic's TV dept going south in general, I got disconnected.
 
Frag Maniac said:
You sure about that Mussels? I have a mere $500 32" Panasonic I bought a few years ago for only $330 and I'm pretty sure it's 8 bit, but I get 8, 10, and 12 bit options showing in CCC too. I think what may be happening is the TV is showing the inputted signal depth, but might be down converting it's output to 8 or 10 bit.

I'm trying to avoid unnecessary processing from my TV, as well as needless wear and tear. It would be nice if the color depth of the panels were part of the TV specs. I may call Panasonic about this, but I'm doubting any of their phone or email staff will know, and it's unlikely I'll get an email response from the engineers, whom are likely in Japan.

But, if anyone happens to find better sources than I did in trying to determine the bit rating of my TV panel's color depth, it's a TC-L32U3 model made in 2011. BTW Mussels, I made a thread about my dilemma and was hoping you'd chime in. For now I've got it set to 8 bit.
http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/ccc-display-color-depth-setting-bpc.208920/
Click to expand...
I have a 42" Panasonic Plasma. It accept 8 and 10 bit colors depths but always kicks out the 12-bit. Mine doesn't tell me if it knows what depth it's running at but I think I recall seeing the manual for mine that it supported deep color. I bought my TV in early 2011 IIRC.

I'm having trouble following what you think is happening. Do you think it's taking in the higher depth but not actually displaying it?
 
Frag Maniac said:
You sure about that Mussels? I have a mere $500 32" Panasonic I bought a few years ago for only $330 and I'm pretty sure it's 8 bit, but I get 8, 10, and 12 bit options showing in CCC too. I think what may be happening is the TV is showing the inputted signal depth, but might be down converting it's output to 8 or 10 bit.

I'm trying to avoid unnecessary processing from my TV, as well as needless wear and tear. It would be nice if the color depth of the panels were part of the TV specs. I may call Panasonic about this, but I'm doubting any of their phone or email staff will know, and it's unlikely I'll get an email response from the engineers, whom are likely in Japan.

But, if anyone happens to find better sources than I did in trying to determine the bit rating of my TV panel's color depth, it's a TC-L32U3 model made in 2011. BTW Mussels, I made a thread about my dilemma and was hoping you'd chime in. For now I've got it set to 8 bit.
http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/ccc-display-color-depth-setting-bpc.208920/
Click to expand...


necroooo

but yes, my TV actually shows in the corner that its running 12 bit - you'll notice that in the first post. my other two HDTV's in the house do not.

i've got some HDMI switches here that cut out at 10 and 12 bit respectively (i've got three, one that supports each standard apparently), so its definitely sending and receiving a 12 bit signal.
 
Aquinus said:
I'm having trouble following what you think is happening. Do you think it's taking in the higher depth but not actually displaying it?
Click to expand...

I think It's receiving a 10 bit signal and down converting it to 8 bit via processing, and as I said, I don't want any unnecessary processing going on. Maybe not, I don't know, I just have a hard time buying this level of set would be 10 bit capable. Three years ago we were still in recession heavily, and Panasonic was feeling the crunch. I can't buy that they'd be selling a $500 TV with a 10 bit panel.

To expound further, I can't use Full RGB or even Limited RGB Pixel Format with this set. When I set it in either of those modes I get tons of black crushing and color saturation. The interior of liberated trading posts in Far Cry 4 look so dark I can't even see any details on the walls.

If Mussels set actually handles 12 bit, I have to assume it's an expensive XBR model.
 
Frag Maniac said:
I think It's receiving a 10 bit signal and down converting it to 8 bit via processing, and as I said, I don't want any unnecessary processing going on. Maybe not, I don't know, I just have a hard time buying this level of set would be 10 bit capable. Three years ago we were still in recession heavily, and Panasonic was feeling the crunch. I can't buy that they'd be selling a $500 TV with a 10 bit panel.

To expound further, I can't use Full RGB or even Limited RGB Pixel Format with this set. When I set it in either of those modes I get tons of black crushing and color saturation. The interior of liberated trading posts in Far Cry 4 look so dark I can't even see any details on the walls.

If Mussels set actually handles 12 bit, I have to assume it's an expensive XBR model.
Click to expand...

I got no idea on mine, i got it for $150 second hand since one internal speaker has died (i use it exclusively for teamspeak, so its irrelevant to me)

heres the link, but as i think i stated earlier in the thread, i couldnt find any information on it - blacks ARE blacker on 12 bit vs 8, but its hard to tell between 8 and 10, or 10 and 12.
 
^Yeah that looks to be a couple models up from the $40" EX500 a neighbor of mine has. He had me look at it after it went out and I deduced from inspection and researching the 5 blink red light code it was displaying that the T-Con board was likely out.

I found some $15 T-Con boards for it brand new on some eBay top rated seller's pages, but he hasn't gotten back to me on whether he wants me to have a try at fixing it. I told him under no circumstances should he get rid of it, as it's no more than 4 yrs old, but I don't know. He's a bit spoiled, gets things like that given to him all the time by his relatives, so he doesn't really value them like most people would.
 
Mussels said:
it must mix the 12 bit down to 10, explains why i saw some gain vs 8.
Click to expand...
Yeah that's what I was trying to convey earlier. I know Sony has some sets in the $700 to $1000 or more range that are 10 bit, but I imagine if they do actually have a 12 bit, which I'm doubting, it would be very expensive.
 
Some panels are also sold as
6-bit+FRC = 8-bit
8-bit+FRC = 10-bit
10-bit+FRC = 12-bit
 
Well it's not any thing new that a company make some thing and parts from another unit is used from a higher end product. Dam i have seen some TV's and even blu ray players that just have the female plug missing and all the electronics are still there for use.

It's good information to know when buying, i remember some years ago a Panasonic DVD \ VHC player 2 models one had a fan and the other did not but wanted some crazy 40$ more for it and yet inside all the required stuff was there and the case just needed a hole and a fan.
 
Xzibit said:
Some panels are also sold as
6-bit+FRC = 8-bit
8-bit+FRC = 10-bit
10-bit+FRC = 12-bit
Click to expand...

And like many things in the TV industry, such as Hz specs, that is very misleading to call them capable of 2 bit higher color depth. The dithering used for Frame Rate Control really only simulates the missing shades, creates 30 Hz flicker as a tradeoff, and is only more prominently noticeable in the darker shades anyway. So for instance you'll likely still get color banding in a scene of a nice day with a blue sky background.

It's a limited capability technology like e-IPS vs IPS, or the fake frames inserted with fake 120Hz, vs real 120Hz. It's not the same thing as a true 10 or 12 bit color depth.
 
Frag Maniac said:
And like many things in the TV industry, such as Hz specs, that is very misleading to call them capable of 2 bit higher color depth. The dithering used for Frame Rate Control really only simulates the missing shades, creates 30 Hz flicker as a tradeoff, and is only more prominently noticeable in the darker shades anyway. So for instance you'll likely still get color banding in a scene of a nice day with a blue sky background.

It's a limited capability technology like e-IPS vs IPS, or the fake frames inserted with fake 120Hz, vs real 120Hz. It's not the same thing as a true 10 or 12 bit color depth.
Click to expand...

Misleading in panels are plentiful. Similarly the overdriven panels to achieve low RT at the cost of RTC overshoot degrading overall image & accuracy.

Maybe not misleading per say but the lack of awareness or willingness to be aware, since the information is out there. It becomes a matter of what the user perceives is good enough for them.

People enjoyed DVD & BluRay movies which are 8-bit on 6-bit panels for years. One can foresee the same thing happening with 4k content.
 
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Xzibit said:
Maybe not misleading per say but the lack of awareness or willingness to be aware, since the information is out there. It becomes a matter of what the user perceives is good enough for them.
Click to expand...

I feel there are many things in TV and monitor advertising that are very misleading, especially when the vast majority of the population are still fairly uneducated about such things. It would be one thing if they explained what they meant by it, but most people assume they're getting actual 120Hz, 10 bit, 12 bit etc, instead of a fake version of it. This further creates a placebo affect in the consumer, which is particularly influencing with anything regarding visual content. It's a loophole in advertising laws that is unacceptable IMO.
 
Frag Maniac said:
I feel there are many things in TV and monitor advertising that are very misleading, especially when the vast majority of the population are still fairly uneducated about such things. It would be one thing if they explained what they meant by it, but most people assume they're getting actual 120Hz, 10 bit, 12 bit etc, instead of a fake version of it. This further creates a placebo affect in the consumer, which is particularly influencing with anything regarding visual content. It's a loophole in advertising laws that is unacceptable IMO.
Click to expand...

I understand what your saying but since there is no big consumer push to have knowledge of these technical specs the companies selling them wont disclose more then they have to. Its pretty much a waiting game until it becomes prevalent by means of marketing distinguish between products.
 
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