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2TB WD SN770 NVME for £99 - what am i missing?

bug

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isn't it natural for drive capacity to become cheaper with time?
people are so used to the price gouging in other tech products they are losing their minds over ssd's. No point in buying all of it or any of it if you don't need it.

Could ssd's start asking 1000$ in the future for 1TB or whatever is equivalent then? idk but for now it's working fine so no need to spend more then what you need.
It makes sense to get a bigger drive than what you actually need. SSDs work best when there's 25-30% free space. Otherwise it get harder to spread the wear, performance degrades.
 
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It makes sense to get a bigger drive than what you actually need. SSDs work best when there's 25-30% free space. Otherwise it get harder to spread the wear, performance degrades.

that's not what i mean.

Buying a drive that you don't need just because it looks very cheap. In a year a 4TB one will be the same 100$, and so on, as it always was in the past.
 

bug

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that's not what i mean.

Buying a drive that you don't need just because it looks very cheap. In a year a 4TB one will be the same 100$, and so on, as it always was in the past.
Well, the OP hasn't said anything about buying a drive they don't need. Just asked about why that drive is so cheap all of a sudden.
As for buying stuff you don't immediately need... yeah, it seems wasteful, but people are doing it al the time regardless. My last tech purchase is a pair of Yubikeys. Don't need them, but I was just curious to test how close/far we are from going passwordless. So guilty as charged :p
 
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Well, the OP hasn't said anything about buying a drive they don't need. Just asked about why that drive is so cheap all of a sudden.
As for buying stuff you don't immediately need... yeah, it seems wasteful, but people are doing it al the time regardless. My last tech purchase is a pair of Yubikeys. Don't need them, but I was just curious to test how close/far we are from going passwordless. So guilty as charged :p

"2TB WD SN770 NVME for £99 - what am i missing?"

that's what implied from the title and OP's first post.
 

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Just be mindful that if you fill all M.2 slots on your motherboard, you won't be able to upgrade easily
I feel you brother, I have this:


I also have two other systems those could be used for later
 

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I feel you brother, I have this:


I also have two other systems those could be used for later
I have 3 onboard slots and I have managed to keep one free till now (using SATA for storage drives). But yes, one of those cards may come in handy sooner or later.
 
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But without RAM isn't the drive safer from corruption in the case of a power cut?
Every SSD has an SLC cache build in the NAND to store data ready to be written, In case of power failure, the info stays in that SLC flash cache and will be written to the slower NAND on Power on.

The SSD's internal DRAM stores metadata, buffers write data, coalesces short writes into longer ones and buffers data that moves around internally to the SSD for garbage collection.
 
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But without RAM isn't the drive safer from corruption in the case of a power cut?
No. It just indexes data. But there are programs (well program but I forget what its called) that uses your excess ram to make your ssd faster by writing to it first, and that could lead to data loss depending on the settings. Infact Windows even does this by default 'enable write caching on this device' you can turn it on or off in disk properties. But it does it in such small chunks that even in case of power outage it shouldn't cause corruption... (in most cases....)
 
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Without DRAM an SSD uses less power and is a lot slower. An DRAM-less NVMe SSD will use HMB if programmed by manufacturer to do the same, but now by use your RAM of your computer. Some manufacturers like Samsung give you the option to enable or disable this function.
This is much slower because it has to go through PCIE to the CPU and then to RAM, then the reverse way back to the SSD.
It also uses a chunk of RAM and CPU cycles.
 
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Without DRAM an SSD uses less power and is a lot slower. An DRAM-less NVMe SSD will use HMB if programmed by manufacturer to do the same, but now by use your RAM of your computer. Some manufacturers like Samsung give you the option to enable or disable this function.
This is much slower because it has to go through PCIE to the CPU and then to RAM, then the reverse way back to the SSD.
It also uses a chunk of RAM and CPU cycles.
I have personally found hmb pretty useless. Doesn't help at all when you have a large file to transfer ( say like 30GB). I guess if you only use your computer for light tasks like web browsing it would be okay. I have a ssd like that in my laptop that I only use for watching youtube in bed and its pretty fast. But even for gamers there's a lot of installing and moving big files around to get those games playable. Learned this the hard way. I thought well they have hmb so it'll be fine but it wasn't. Need to move a 100GB game to a different drive? Good luck with that if you don't have dram on there.

Then again apparently this sn770 drive performs pretty good, and I can't comment on that because I've never tried it. Maybe they were able to pull it off without dram somehow idk.
 
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For people that don't care about this or just for storage it does it's job. Just don't expect top notch power. They are specially made for people who want a cheap SSD.
Most of times they also use less PCIE lanes, or work on an older PCIE generation, and cheaper Controller/NAND.

You could say that an SSD without build-in DRAM is an SSD without balls...;) Just like an Intel Celeron CPU.
Nevertheless, they are super fast compared to a hard drive.
 
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"Cheap is as cheap does" :roll:

But yea, dram-less drives are always cheaper than their better-performing (but slightly more expensive) counterparts, it's just about the # of parts on the stick....

And yea, all m.2 drive prices have been dropping like rocks lately, 1- because of maturity/market saturation, and 2- because gen 5 drives are quickly becoming available, as are mobos that can use them...

Personally, no dram = auto no buy for me.... but that's because I'm a performance junkie, hehehe :)

Plus my clients would never forgive me if I built them rigs that slowed down every time the buffers filled up, and I can't/won't risk that !
 
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The new SSD king is now Crucial T700 SSD-PCIE 5.0
 

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It doesn't do too bad compared to faster drives. And its faster than what I have right now so.. and its cheap lol.. who cares.
 
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If you compare a cheap SSD with an HDD... My first SATA SSD i still remember from 64GB... Where's the time?

I have that SSD here and it still works without problem.
An SSD that uses SLC NAND as storage. Now only used as a temporary buffer for the slower TLC NAND.
 
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If you compare a cheap SSD with an HDD... My first SATA SSD i still remember from 64GB... Where's the time?

I have that SSD here and it still works without problem.
An SSD that uses SLC NAND as storage. Now only used as a temporary buffer for the slower TLC NAND.
Do ssds actually still have slc? Isn't it just part of the tlc made to act like slc... or something like that?
 

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Well, if they suck, I will be sure to let you know :D

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I have personally found hmb pretty useless. Doesn't help at all when you have a large file to transfer ( say like 30GB). I guess if you only use your computer for light tasks like web browsing it would be okay. I have a ssd like that in my laptop that I only use for watching youtube in bed and its pretty fast. But even for gamers there's a lot of installing and moving big files around to get those games playable. Learned this the hard way. I thought well they have hmb so it'll be fine but it wasn't. Need to move a 100GB game to a different drive? Good luck with that if you don't have dram on there.

Then again apparently this sn770 drive performs pretty good, and I can't comment on that because I've never tried it. Maybe they were able to pull it off without dram somehow idk.
That doesn't mean it's useless. It just means it doesn't help in the case of large files transfer.
 
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That doesn't mean it's useless. It just means it doesn't help in the case of large files transfer.
I suppose thats true, but what exactly were dram-less ssds lacking for other than sustained transfer speeds? Boot times were already fast. Games loaded fast. Applications loaded fast. Small file transfers went fast. Perhaps useless was a bit hyperbolic I guess I should have said I don't see it a suitable substitute for dram, unless you're only doing light tasks (and that part I kind of already said).
 

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I suppose thats true, but what exactly were dram-less ssds lacking for other than sustained transfer speeds? Boot times were already fast. Games loaded fast. Applications loaded fast. Small file transfers went fast. Perhaps useless was a bit hyperbolic I guess I should have said I don't see it a suitable substitute for dram, unless you're only doing light tasks (and that part I kind of already said).
I guess it helps for heavy random access most. That's when you have to look up a ton of actual addresses. On the other hand, heavy random access isn't something that happens that often for home users...
 

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Picked up a pair of 1 TB Solidigm P44 Pro drives for around £52 each, as I'm going to stick one in my laptop and one will be a boot drive.
The SN770 goes for about the same price in Taiwan as in the UK, which makes it expensive here due to 15% lower VAT.
SSDs have really gotten super cheap though. Bought a 2 TB Kingston KC3000 just over a year ago and it's dropped about £60 in price since then from about £185 to about £125...
The Kingston Fury, which at the time was even more expensive, now goes for around £99 at 2 TB.
 
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Do ssds actually still have slc? Isn't it just part of the tlc made to act like slc... or something like that?
SLC Cache is stored in TLC NAND Flash, so if it is not erased purposely, the data can be saved continuously and will not disappear due to power off.
Every NAND package has SLC cache build-in. How big this cache is depends on the price of your SSD.

The SLC cache typically comes in two distinct parts: a static SLC cache and a dynamic pseudo-SLC cache. The static cache is generally tiny, less than 10GB even on large 2TB drives. The static cache is always available, even when the drive is almost full.

Are DRAM-less SSD worth it?

It depends.

You see, DRAM-less SSDs have a poor reputation in the PC community because their performance can be poor in certain situations. This is because while solid-state storage is fast, there can still be significant latency for information retrieval if the controller does not know where the information is.

Think about it like this (this is grossly oversimplified but works well enough as an analogy):

If you are looking for a book in a library, knowing only its title (the shelves are organized by author name or some other piece of information you don’t know), the slow way to look for the book would just be to look through the books one by one and see which one matches the title you are looking for. This could take a while.

However, a much faster way to find the book would involve asking the librarian to search through his system to find the author of the book you are looking for, and then going straight to the shelf for books with that author’s name.

In this example, the catalog that a librarian keeps in his computer is quite similar to the DRAM on a conventional SSD. It allows the SSD controller to locate very very quickly the location of the information being requested. NAND flash, which is the type of actual storage chip type used on SSDs, is fast but still much slower than DRAM, meaning that a similar “catalog” stored on NAND flash would not operate as quickly.

This means that initially when DRAM-less SSDs came out, their performance hardly lived up to the SSD name. In fact, in some situations, they can even be slower than modern spinning-disk hard drives, which usually half a similar cache to the DRAM chip on an SSD nowadays (albeit smaller to cut down on price). Thus, DRAM-less SSDs were despised by the PC building community.

So why did I answer the question with “it depends”?

That’s because in the time between the initial development of DRAM-less SSDs and current-day, new developments have allowed DRAM-less SSDs to operate with nearly as low latency of traditional, DRAM SSDs.

This development is called host-memory buffer, or HMB. It isn’t magical, nor is it really a revolutionary discovery in computing, but rather, SSD manufacturers simply made the controller on their DRAM-less SSDs ask the CPU (the “host”) for some of its DRAM. This basically means that instead of having a DRAM chip on the SSD itself, the SSD uses some of the system memory to achieve the same results, allowing for similarly fast operations as a traditional DRAM SSD.
 
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WingCommanderBob

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There's an oversupply of NAND at the moment since a lot of the covid-era orders and scaling up of production is now paying off. The newer drives with higher layer count flash are getting disgustingly cheap as a result - one or more E18/B47R rebrands have been sub-£120 at 2TB for a bit now. SN770's cheaper than that since it's dramless and transfer speeds are otherwise right down the middle between the flagship gen 3's and gen 4's, but it's not like you'll ever notice the difference. 2TB 970EP down at £82 might be worth a look as well if you don't need gen 4.

Then again apparently this sn770 drive performs pretty good, and I can't comment on that because I've never tried it. Maybe they were able to pull it off without dram somehow idk.
DRAM is far less relevant for sustained speed than NAND type. Your description sounds accurate for a cheap QLC drive- the 770 avoids this because it is TLC. SATA drives used to get absolutely destroyed by not having DRAM because the bus is very high latency- not so much a problem over PCIe, so you're not giving up that much peformance by not having it.
 
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Picked up a pair of 1 TB Solidigm P44 Pro drives for around £52 each, as I'm going to stick one in my laptop and one will be a boot drive.
The SN770 goes for about the same price in Taiwan as in the UK, which makes it expensive here due to 15% lower VAT.
SSDs have really gotten super cheap though. Bought a 2 TB Kingston KC3000 just over a year ago and it's dropped about £60 in price since then from about £185 to about £125...
The Kingston Fury, which at the time was even more expensive, now goes for around £99 at 2 TB.

nice i just checked the specs for the P44 pro. Not familiar with Solidigm but it seems every bit as good as the WD 850X. All the usual fancy stuff 4.0, similar speeds, DRAM, 5yr warranty, same/similar endurance, etc etc.... and £10 cheaper.

My workloads gonna run fine on SN 770.... but you've got me tempted to go DRAM for £35 more. Will be keeping an eye on the so-solid-solidigm and the other usual suspects for some further price drops.
 
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Considering the discussion of HMB vs DRAM, I am surprised nobody linked this yet:

 
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