3D or Hardware Sound in games dead??

[erixx]

Yes Mussels, everybody can.

Checked my BC2 ini, and it is already set to "6". As said, I hear front, rear, left, right, but not as fine tuned as wanted.

 

[Bjorn_Of_Iceland]

BC2 is a mediocre games anyways I think.......

Your obviously not playing mp

 

[Dent1]

Yes Mussels, everybody can.

Checked my BC2 ini, and it is already set to "6". As said, I hear front, rear, left, right, but not as fine tuned as wanted.

Which AV receiver have you got?

Are you using your soundcard's Dolby Digital Live feature with a optical cable?

 

[Robert-The-Rambler]

I firmly believe this

i sure enjoy 5.1 sound over DD/DTS, its awesome.


and while sound has gone down in the big name titles, overall its better. almost every game out there gives you 2.0, 4.0 and 5.1 sound on even the cheapest onboard audio. thats a big plus over the old days where you needed specific hardware.

You will get better audio quality over 5.1/7.1 analog for games with good sources and HDMI is the only truly acceptable upgrade for high resolution audio such as DVD-Audio and SACD in a digital transmission. Both Dolby Digital Live and DTS Connect are compressed and that is fine for most people but I myself want the best I can get. I use them all anyway and I'm just getting into "real" headphones from Sennheiser so in summary of this whole discussion I say I don't care if it is hardware or software, 2 channel or 8 channel audio, as long as it sounds awesome.

Mussels, in direct response to what you posted. Man things were really awful years ago in the DOS days. We have NEVER had it so good. C'mon we are getting studio quality fidelity for such low prices these days. I always laugh when people say things like how much better Baldurs Gate was than Dragon Age Origins. I was there and I still have those old games and that stuff is truly comical.

 

[Dent1]

You will get better audio quality over 5.1/7.1 analog for games with good sources and HDMI is the only truly acceptable upgrade for high resolution audio such as DVD-Audio and SACD in a digital transmission. Both Dolby Digital Live and DTS Connect are compressed and that is fine for most people but I myself want the best I can get. I use them all anyway and I'm just getting into "real" headphones from Sennheiser so in summary of this whole discussion I say I don't care if it is hardware or

Although what you've said is accurate.

You should keep in mind that better audio quality and surround sound are different matters.

For the most part, this threads is aimed at 3D sound, surround sound and DSP effects, greater audio quality and sharpness is something else.

You don't need DDL, DTSC or any other implementation in order to have 5.1 or even 7.1 sound in games shadedshu
You just need a sound card capable of offering 3 of 4 stereo ports, that combined can provide 5.1 or 7.1 sound. No need for a hw decoder.

You do if you want Dolby 5.1 or DTS 5.1 sound.

 

[hellrazor]

Went over to a friends' house, apparently 2 Worlds II has EAX. But aside from that the game is very confused about whether it's good or whether it's total crap.

 

[Mussels]

No need. Software emulation can be done even on integrated crap from laptops that don't have any hardware codecs installed.

Ever heard of AC3 Filter, that AC3 codec for movies?

as soon as you run it through analogue, you lose quality to the DAC's on the soundcard.

if you go digital, every card sounds the same, whether it be a high end X-fi or cheap ass realtek.

 

[erixx]

I am getting confused (IF i take you guys seriously of course, LOL)

My setup is X-FI Ti + analogue outbut to a Logitech 5.1 system (can remember model, it's not writen on the set, so who cares, it's fourhonderd something)

in the PAST (hALFLIFE, Unreal, QUAKE, DOOM, Delta force, ghost recon,.. ) I have clearly nooticed the positional audio and been able to 'feel' or detect were enemies were or sounds came from.

Too many todays game do not give me this feeling... it feels flat... thats why I asked, maybe something's happening?

As I understnad it, the 'propietary part' the EAX, is not questioned here, it is just CODE YOUR GAMES RIGHT AND GIVE POSITIONAL AUDIO

 

[Mussels]

you sure its just not that you've set your speakers up wrong?


if you have the CMSS 3D stuff enabled or have your speakers set to anything but 5.1, you're not getting surround sounds positional audio.

(hint: if you play an MP3 and its coming out of every speaker, you've fucked up your surround sound)

 

[erixx]

good point Mussels! But... CMSS is supposed to be for stereo sources and to upgrade them to all your speakers. I have had it enabled since ever for music!

A game, configured to play in say 5.1 should not have anything todo with CMSS..

Anyway i will test your sugestion turning it off!

 

[Mussels]

good point Mussels! But... CMSS is supposed to be for stereo sources and to upgrade them to all your speakers. I have had it enabled since ever for music!

A game, configured to play in say 5.1 should not have anything todo with CMSS..

Anyway i will test your sugestion turning it off!

it can. because it spreads your audio out over all the speakers, thus screwing with your positional audio.

You'd think it would disable on games or with a 5.1 source - but audio is audio, its not like it knows when to turn it off.

 

[ctrain]

pretty sure one of the CMSS modes expects stereo, not 5.1. it up-mixes to surround with hrtf ear hax.

 

[AUTOgod]

good point Mussels! But... CMSS is supposed to be for stereo sources and to upgrade them to all your speakers. I have had it enabled since ever for music!

A game, configured to play in say 5.1 should not have anything todo with CMSS..

Anyway i will test your sugestion turning it off!

some speaker sets also have it in a hardware option, so check for that as well.

 

[Robert-The-Rambler]

Mussels is right

it can. because it spreads your audio out over all the speakers, thus screwing with your positional audio.

You'd think it would disable on games or with a 5.1 source - but audio is audio, its not like it knows when to turn it off.

You have to disable CMSS when you know a game supports multi channel suround sound or you will get messed up sounds with confused positional audio such as vocals out of the back speakers when the characters who are speaking are right in front of you. CMSS is meant to either provide virtual surround with headphones in two channel mode or upmix 2 channels to as many as 8 channels of audio. Unfortunately it doesn't shut off automatically when not needed from game to game.

 

[TAViX]

Interesting. I use CMSS and have better 3D positioning in FEAR than without it. Also use in entertainment mode...




This is an interesting development technology that can be used even with stereo laptop speakers. Very nice:

http://www.princeton.edu/3D3A/

 

[Dent1]

No need. Software emulation can be done even on integrated crap from laptops that don't have any hardware codecs installed.

Ever heard of AC3 Filter, that AC3 codec for movies?

AC3 filter only works in movies. AC3 filter is not compatible with games

 

[Wile E]

I've been considering maybe upgrading my sound card (Audigy SE) but this has me thread thinking maybe it's not even worth it?

Not worth it for gaming, but worth it in terms of sound quality, so long as you have decent headphones or speakers.

I agree. Same reason I've been using onboard sound since Socket A.

Even his Audigy SE sounds better than onboard, except for maybe the new ones using real XFi DSPs and dedicated sound sections on the mobo (basically a real sound card directly integrated). If you have been using on-board since then, you have been missing out.

as soon as you run it through analogue, you lose quality to the DAC's on the soundcard.

if you go digital, every card sounds the same, whether it be a high end X-fi or cheap ass realtek.

Wrong. Not all DACs are created equal. It depends purely on the equipment. Good sound cards (Auzentechs, HT Omega, and the likes) have better DACs and opamps/preamp stages than cheap receivers or anything made by Logitech. Analog out from a one of those almost certainly sounds better than digital output into something like Z5500's, due to the fact the Z5500's processing is inferior.

 

[Mussels]

Wrong. Not all DACs are created equal. It depends purely on the equipment. Good sound cards (Auzentechs, HT Omega, and the likes) have better DACs and opamps/preamp stages than cheap receivers or anything made by Logitech. Analog out from a one of those almost certainly sounds better than digital output into something like Z5500's, due to the fact the Z5500's processing is inferior.

wasnt my point.


what i meant was that the soundcard becomes irrelevant, and the speakers/decoder are what matters.

Yes, you can digital with high end analogue - but thats not what i was talking about. go digital, and you just upgrade the speakers for better sound. no need for a good soundcard at all.


and by the way, i run an auzentech and z55's - and it sounds better on the digital. the analogue on the auzen however shits all over the analoge of my realtek, especially for headphone use.

 

[Mussels]

banghead:

while AC3 filter exists for movies, no such thing exists for realtime use with any soundcard. the closest you get is dolby live or DTS encoding on specific onboard soundcards (mostly on gigabyte boards, for some reason)

 

[Mussels]

I specified for movies.

In games, producers have different method, like software implementation, Milles 3D, etc, etc...

you did specify movies, and i caught that.

but its irrelevant since we're focusing on games in this thread - no equivalent exists.


Please try and re-make the point you were making, as it seems we're not getting it.

 

[FreedomEclipse]

What point? I specified in previews post.

Ok, so what do you understand when a game producer specifies it support THX or DDL in its game?

THX is a standard - not a format - THX is about sound QUALITY (IMO) . DDL only came about with Creative but its still DD

 

[Mussels]

THX is a minimum sound quality, that george lucas set up for the original star wars. better than nothing for sure, but it aint exactly a modern standard.


DDL just means the game has its own encoded dolby streams, simple that.

 

[Mussels]

Exactly what I have said.

But even so, the game that use those are scarce to say the least.....

yeah... because so few PC's run digital audio to a home theater speaker system. they're not used by most gamers.


get a sound card with live or DTS encoding and THX speakers (which is a speaker certification, not a game or sound one) and away you go.

 

[Dent1]

What point? I specified in previews post.

Ok, so what do you understand when a game producer specifies it support THX or DDL in its game?

Exactly what I have said.

But even so, the game that use those are scarce to say the least.....

a.) What has this got to do you with your AC3 filter argument earlier?

b.) "when a game producer specifies it support THX or DDL in its game" it doesn’t mean DDL straight out of the box. It just means that the game has more than 5 audio streams, the user still needs a soundcard that supports Dolby Digital Live or DTSC to utilise it in addition to a Home Theatre System with a hardware decoder. (Example Assassins Creed 1/2 on PC)

Edit:

But still will be a big difference from a REAL 3D sound positioning like EAX or A3D......

Are you implying that Dolby Laboratories, Inc which has been in the sound industry since 1965 are unable to implement real 3D sound positioning?

 

[Dent1]

Read again. I specified that as long as your sound card has has 3 or 4 stereo ports it can emulates Dolby software with just a codec in movies.

Games support similar technologies.....

...

Nope, you never mentioned the string "emulate Dolby software" anywhere in this thread up until now

Either way, as I said earlier codecs such as AC3 filter are not compatible with games. I never disputed you about movies, but I’m saying that bringing up movies is irrelevant when the thread is about gaming hence the title "3D or Hardware Sound in games dead??"

Again, you don't necessary need a HARDWARE decoder......

You do for games. If you know of a software decoder that is commercially available at price consumers can afford that works on games let me know its name so I can use it

That's exactly what I'm implying.

Ok that is your opinion.

Dolby Digital is just a fancy surround effect over 5 speakers. THX is similar. They are use mostly for movies, not games. They don't have all those nice

Wrong.

a.) Dolby Digital isnt just over 5 speakers. Dolby Digital 2.0 is still going strong.

It’s hard to take you seriously when you don’t know the difference between THX and Dolby Digital.

b.) THX isn’t similar to Dolby Digital, they are completely unrelated things. THX is a standard or a stamp of approval.

features that makes you point the exactly location or source of a sound. So far EAX 5.0 and A3D, maybe Sensaura 3D were the best hardware implementations ever on a sound card. There are other technologies, even better, but they are not (yet?) implemented hardware on cards...Read some articles about this...

Only if you read up on:

1.) The meaning of THX.
2.) Difference between THX and Dolby Digital
3.) The limitation of software decoding
4.) The advantages of hardware decoders (AV receivers)
5.) Why Dolby Digital isn’t just a mere "effect"
6.) The implementation of Dolby Digital 2.0
7.) Dolby Digital Live (DDL) and how it’s different from Dolby Digital.
8.) The benefits of Dolby Digital Live
9.) Difference between EAX and Dolby Digital and how their completely unrelated