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A puzzle about 3870 in C/C

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#1
its basically reports like this that made me decide to go crossfire.. but..???

http://www.iax-tech.com/video/3870/38701.htm

in 2006 their single card scores just under 13000 which sounds about right for a decent intel system..

in 2006 the twin cards in crossfire score around 20000 quite a decent performance increase..

now using the same drivers as they are my single card scores 11000 which again i think is about right for a slower AMD system..

my crossfire scores are only 13000 not a decent increase at all.. in fact pretty pathetic..

now my slower system explains my lower single card score.. it dosnt explain my totally pathetic crossfire score..

even more so when i am using an AMD 790x chipset system which is part of the new spider platform entirely geared towards crossfire..

something odd going on any ideas anyone.. ????

trog
 
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#3
i have tried every way but which way and cant get the performance increase the website suggests i should be getting.. just looking for some kind of answer as to the why..

the obvious difference is they tested in vista and i am in xp.. hard to believe the cat drivers dont do crossfire in xp thow.. its possible but to me its unlikely..

one things for sure.. i aint gonna install vista just to find out.. he he he

trog
 

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#4
The simple answer is your 6000+ is holding you back. The cards simply can't score well with that weak of a CPU, they are CPU limitted.
 

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#5
you could get a cheap 5000+ BE off the egg those do 3.5-3.7ghz on good air/water
 
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#6
I believe that some ATI cards appear to be depandant on a high end CPU. Remember, that review used the highest Intel quad CPU, a X9650.
 
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#7
The simple answer is your 6000+ is holding you back. The cards simply can't score well with that weak of a CPU, they are CPU limitted.
its a possibility but if it is AMD/ATI might as well shut up shop now and give in.. he he he

i do have about the fastest AMD system its possible to have and on the latest amd crossfire optimized motherboard..

i agree in 2006 an overclocked intel systm is gonna beat any amd system.. but are we really saying an amd system cant run a pair of ati cards in a reasonable fashion.. ????

as i said somewhere else.. if two cards only give a less than 20% performance increase over one card in something that is optimized for crossfire.. amd are really in trouble with their spider idea.. which is entirely based on multiple cards/gpus

and if anyone thinks a current phenom is gonna outrun my overclocked 6000 they really are in cloud cuckoo land..

i dont think its a system bottleneck at 13000 in 2006 with crossfire..

my single card is about 17% behind the websites intel system which is what i would expect in a system limited benchmark like 2006..

my two cards are 60% behind which is what i find puzzling.. however faster their intel system is it aint 60% faster..

trog
 
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#9
I don't see a puzzle here. You are simply cpu limited.

Remember 06 automatically gives a higher score when using a quad core cpu compared to a dual core cpu. (that will explain a couple thousand difference) Then take into account a QX9650 is ALOT faster than your cpu (especially as its overclocked) and there is the difference.
 
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#10
The simple answer is your 6000+ is holding you back. The cards simply can't score well with that weak of a CPU, they are CPU limited.
I can't believe I'm hearing that the 6000+ is weak! Bang per buck it's not a bad chip; shame those top of the line quad cores are so damn expensive, I'm not putting a whole month's wage into a single pc component EVER :eek:
 
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#11
my actual 2006 scores

one card
3DMark Score 11180 3DMarks
SM 2.0 score 4867 Marks
SM 3.0 Score 5411 Marks
CPU Score 2577 Marks

two cards
3DMark Score 13037 3DMarks
SM 2.0 Score 5650 Marks
SM 3.0 Score 7174 Marks
CPU Score 2534 Marks

i see a puzzle that with one card their system is about 10% faster than mine..

with two cards its 70% faster than mine..

the other puzzle is why am i only getting something like a 15% performance increase with two cards over one card.. lets not forget that if anything on this planet is fully optimized to take advantage of two cards 3Dmark 2006 is..

their single card score at actually 12500-ish isnt that much faster than my single card score of 11180.. this is fully explained by their system being faster than mine.. no probs here.. we see a difference of about 10%..

what we are seeing is their overclocked intel system with one card is 10% faster than my overclocked amd system.. 10%

what we are also seeing is their overclocked intel system with two cards is 70% faster than my overclocked amd system.. 70%

now i see a puzzle even if some of u guys dont..

nobody seem to want to bench with anything but overclocked intel systems any more.. which is a shame.. cos if what i am seeing is the reality amd are dead in the water which isnt something i want to accept just yet..

is what i am seeing the reality or just a fluke with my system.. ???

i do find it a bit amusing that folks see no puzzle and just accept its an intel amd thing.. also a bit frightening concerning the fate of amd.. he he

trog
 

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#12
AMD should just start concentrating on making value processors and kick ass video cards. The latest news is that AMD is going to keep K8 around and make improvements. Phenom is a bust... so far, but either way, it's a bust. I hate Intel, unfortunately I am buying a new Intel system today.:( I have no other choice. Trog, with your setup your scores seem normal to me. I really wish AMD could of come out with something that shadows Core 2, but they didn't. Regretablly, this is my new system.

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Still thinking about getting 2 3870's right away or sticking with my GTS for now.

It's almost a good thing I don't like Intel, cause I'm going to OC the piss out of this thing!

* Actually Trog, in crossfire, your score should be higher!
 

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#13
There is definiately something going on with your crossfire setup, I'll agree to that.

Have you tried with the latest drivers? It might be that the older drivers they used, which you said you were using, don't work that well with the new 790x platform.

Their CPU score was almost tripple yours though, so that definitely makes up some of the problem.
 
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#14
I don't believe it is cpu, I had a big boost with 1900 x-fire in two cards. 1900 are also cpu dependent. I think this is a driver issue, it has to be. Maybe the mobo and and the g-cards are both optimized for Vista and not properly supported by XP. If it is cpu AMD may as well shut down.

Why do you guys think the cpu would be more of a bottle neck with 1 card vs. two? The bottle neck % seems like it should be roughly the same. Maybe I am wrong but I don't think this bottle neck theory makes sense.
 

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#15
i think the reports of high performance with dual 3870's might've been with CFX, whereas you're still using CF
 
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#16
pancho he is using the new 790x chipset, so he does have crossfirex
 

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#17
no he does not. while the 790fx board supports CFX, you need CCC 8 to unlock and use it. unless if hes an ati employee or a beta tester or somehow got a copy of CCC 8 from a beta tester, i'd say hes using CF on CCC 7 or lower
 
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#18
Good point, maybe you are right. That still does not bode well for the fact 3870 crossfire will be a complete waste in a board like mine (580x), but only for the newer ones correct?
 
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#19
DaMulta - ATi HD2900XT @ 858/1153 - 11244 - A64 FX62 @ 3327.2Mhz - 208FSB


DaMulta - ATi / HD2900XT X-Fire @ 858/1153 - 13054 - A64 FX62 @ 3327.4Mhz - 208FSB


need I say more ? CPU is holding you back, didnt read the whole post but this should help you see its not your cards
 
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#20
no he does not. while the 790fx board supports CFX, you need CCC 8 to unlock and use it. unless if hes an ati employee or a beta tester or somehow got a copy of CCC 8 from a beta tester, i'd say hes using CF on CCC 7 or lower
i am using what they are using panchman.. except for vista and an intel system..

i find it hard to believe that vista is gonna make things go faster..

i am also a bit pissed off having laid out £230 (460 dollars) for the latest amd crossfire motherboard and an extra 3870 card and seeing a 15% gain in a benchmark.. a drop in crysis and no gains anywhere else..

not exactly good bang for buck.. he he he

trog

ps.. the bottom line here is that my second card is sat there doing nothing except heat my case up and add to my electricity bill.. okay its a driver/hardware combo issue.. but its still real..
 
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#21
Well I am certainly canceling the order on my second card and wish i would have got an 8800gt instead. I guess I never seen how bad 2900 x-fire did with a dual core, my 1900's did much better. I went from an oc'ed xtx at ~6400 to 9492 with the x-fire, and an x-fire setup slows down the xtx. That is a strong increase....since I only hit 104xx with 1 card my two card would probably be 12,000 flat. Not that the benchmark matters to me, but trog is reporting problems with the games theirselves.

And yes trog, from what reviews I read the Phenom should not have much on you. And you have me by 200mhz.
 
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#22
so you need a Phenom ask DaMulta how his scores are hes got one ;)

and it a intel Q at 4GHz in that test so thats why its alot better then yours so its like 40% higher cpu score then yours
 
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#23
http://service.futuremark.com/orb/projectsearch.jsp flipping through does show some serious cpu dependencies, but still does not make sense on the x-fire part to me.

BTW why does my black box processor show as a mobile Sempron? I must have the fastest mobile-Sempron out there LOL.
 
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#24
so you need a Phenom ask DaMulta how his scores are hes got one ;)

and it a intel Q at 4GHz in that test so thats why its alot better then yours so its like 40% higher cpu score then yours
a 40% higher cpu score should be the same in single card mode or crossfire mode.. it isnt.. i have no problems at all with my single card score.. i am happy with the 3870 as a single card and my amd system come to that.. what i dont like is no gain worth a wotsit from having two of em..

give it bit of thought guys before u shout faster cpu.. there is more to it than that even if i dont know what exactly "it" is..

trog

ps..i dont believe the website guys are doing anything but reporting what they see.. which is exactly what i am doing..
 
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#25