Ambient Temps are killing me

[dadi_oh]

I appreciate this.It's good to know.

Talked to Zalman they cautioned me that this cooler the CNPS7000-CU is NOT APPROVED for dual core. They recommended returning it and replacing it with the 9500 version that is approved or Athlon X2. I looked at their site and sure enough the 7000 lists 939 Athlon 64 processors but leaves out the X2 specifically. The 9500 does include X2 processors. They said that the design is such that cooling will be insufficient to accomidate the dual cores.

Just so people know. I'm not sure how much this really applies because I know of several people that have this same cooler on their x2 processors but it is not recommend for dual cores. In fact, I've seen several reviews online gtesting just this setup. See their website for confirmation. I'd attach link but IT here at work in their ultimate wisdom has blocked the zalman site from viewing.

I tried the Zalman 7000Cu on my son's X2-3800 OC'ed to 2.6GHz. It was worse than the stock 4 heatpipe OEM cooler that came with the X2-4800 so I understand why Zalman doesn't recommend it for the X2. I paid $37 for the Zalman (it's now up for sale Instead I got an Arctic Cooling Freezer 64 for $30 and that was about an 8degC improvement over the 7000Cu. Hard to beat the Freezer 64 for the price. And you can get another 5degC out of it by adding another fan to it ($7).

On the ambient question, you need to avoid just using random fans blowing air around in the case. They hurt you more than they help. Case cooling is all about managing the airflow to come in where you want it and exhaust where you want it. The Freezer 64 (and other tower heatsinks) are nice because they contribute to the front to back airflow pattern. Ideally a nice low noise 120mm bringing cool air straight into your case lower front and then a 120mm rear case exhaust that is vented straight out of the cabinet. You could use some of the flexible aluminum vent hose that is normally used for clothes dryers. It is ridgid enough to mount to the cabinet and stay in place so you can snug the back of the computer up to it if you have to pull the case out and reinsert.

 

[Ketxxx]

You can shave a further 5c+ off by lapping the base of the AC Freezer 64 Pro as well

 

[thomasshawn]

WOW! Lots of responses today

First, I'll post more pics tonight of current setup. I ditched the 7000-CU and am awaiting the 9500 on order from newegg. Back to the OEM 4 pipe with some AS5. DId it at 6 am before work this AM so I don't know what temps I am running currently. I have it running all day we'll see what it looks like tonight. Currently SYS temps are reading like 31-34 which is much better. I have one fan blowing as suggested from below into the bottom front of the case.

I then have a 90mm Antec 3 speed fan zip tied to the HD tower in the case. It takes that air coming from the bottom front of the case and pushes it into the middle of the case then I have a 120mm 3 speed Antec blowing out the back of the case towards the back of the cabinet. As you will see in the pics I cut the entire back of the cabinet out and airflow is much improved. I can actually feel the airflow into the cabinet if I put my foot near the bottom of the cabinet.

I am curious about the concept of cooling the mainboard. I have an AN8 ultra with the "OTES" cooling. Is there a way to put a HSF on this on the board?

As for the graphics, I have a EVGA GEForce 6600GT with stock fan. Everest shows temps around 50-51. Is there a way to swap this cooling and do something better?

Thanks again. pics to follow tonight

 

[dadi_oh]

You can shave a further 5c+ off by lapping the base of the AC Freezer 64 Pro as well

Yup. Forgot to mention that. I never knew the delta cos the first thing I did when I pulled the Freezer out of the package was strip off the thermal pad and lap it. Obsessive Compulsive I guess

 

[Ketxxx]

Join the club If the HS base isnt shiny and flat.. out comes the sandpaper

 

[Ketxxx]

I have an AN8 ultra with the "OTES" cooling. Is there a way to put a HSF on this on the board?

As for the graphics, I have a EVGA GEForce 6600GT with stock fan. Everest shows temps around 50-51. Is there a way to swap this cooling and do something better?

Thanks again. pics to follow tonight

You should be able to just screw a 40mm fan on top of the existing HS and plug in to the nearby 3pin fan header. As for your graphics, simply lapping the base of the stock HSF (assuming its not very smooth or flat) then using some AS Ceramique should be plenty for reducing load temps.

 

[thomasshawn]

lapping?

Seen this in a lot of places what exactly is this and should i be doing it?

 

[dadi_oh]

Seen this in a lot of places what exactly is this and should i be doing it?

Lapping is polishing the base of the heatsink or the top of the CPU to ensure maximum heat transfer. The best thermal contact would be 2 metal surfaces in 100% contact with no thermal paste. Unfortunately this isn't possible so the thermal paste fills in the air voids with something that has much better thermal conductivity than air. (Air is a great insulator).

If the base of your heatsink is rough or is not flat then there is a lot more thermal compound and lower heat transfer. Lapping the base to a smooth finish will improve things by 5degC or more depending on how bad the original was. My AC Freezer had all sorts of grooves left over from machining.

There was a good write up from a guy recently who lapped the top of his CPU. The same principle applies to heatsinks.

http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=32771

 

[dadi_oh]

Lapping is polishing the base of the heatsink or the top of the CPU to ensure maximum heat transfer. The best thermal contact would be 2 metal surfaces in 100% contact with no thermal paste. Unfortunately this isn't possible so the thermal paste fills in the air voids with something that has much better thermal conductivity than air. (Air is a great insulator).

If the base of your heatsink is rough or is not flat then there is a lot more thermal compound and lower heat transfer. Lapping the base to a smooth finish will improve things by 5degC or more depending on how bad the original was. My AC Freezer had all sorts of grooves left over from machining.

There was a good write up from a guy recently who lapped the top of his CPU. The same principle applies to heatsinks.

http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=32771

And for reference sake, I polished the base of my OEM 4 heat pipe AMD heatsink and got 9degC improvement. The potential is huge for cooling improvement but as I said, it depends on how rough the surface is that you are starting with. High quality heatsinks from reputable companies are usually pretty good so payback on lapping would be lower.

 

[thomasshawn]

graphics

So, should I try and lap the graphics card. I'm sitting in the low 50s. What should I expect from a EVGA GeForce6600GT? Or do I replace it with an aftermarket cooler made for the 6600GT?

 

[Ketxxx]

Can you post a pic of your graphics card HSF? That way we can determine if its worth lapping based on how "meaty" it looks.

 

[thomasshawn]

Hsf

Well, that would require me removing the HSF from the graphics card. Something I've never done. Built a lot of systems but never dissected a graphics card. In fact this is the first card I've owned with a HSF that I know of. Same as the CPU?

Everest shows temps at idle of 51-53 today. Is that too hot for this board

 

[Ketxxx]

Can you link to your card on the manufacturers site? 53c is a bit warm if its idle temps.

 

[SkylinGTR26]

i think, you need to be less anal about your temps. If you really want. Take your case out of the cabinet and NEVER put your computer into a cabinet ever again!
But yeah... its pretty much pointless to try and mod your cabinet to move enough air around to not choke your PC. You just need to put it out in the open.

But if the temps arent giving your problems who cares!
my c2d is sitting at 52C right now .. Idle... then again it only goes up to around 59c at load. But i just stopped caring, i never have problems with it plus its overclocked too... But yeah. It dosnt matter what temps your hardware stays at, it only matters if its stable or not.

 

[Ketxxx]

i think, you need to be less anal about your temps. If you really want. Take your case out of the cabinet and NEVER put your computer into a cabinet ever again!
But yeah... its pretty much pointless to try and mod your cabinet to move enough air around to not choke your PC. You just need to put it out in the open.

But if the temps arent giving your problems who cares!
my c2d is sitting at 52C right now .. Idle... then again it only goes up to around 59c at load. But i just stopped caring, i never have problems with it plus its overclocked too... But yeah. It dosnt matter what temps your hardware stays at, it only matters if its stable or not.

That has to be the single stupidest thing I've seen anyone say this year. Temps are VERY critical. While they may operate at oven temperatures, it certainly does nothing for prolonging hardware life. In summary; lower temps = much happier, healthier, less problematic, longer lasting hardware.

 

[thomasshawn]

GPU stuff

Took these images from an old review on 3dxtreme. credit to them for the shots.

I realize that I am never going to be as good as having the computer out of the cabinet but it is not something that I am able to do at this time. I accept that criticism and I also accept my limitations. I am stable for the most part and am happy with that but I do want to decrease heat and prolong equipment as long as possible.

Not sure if this is what you want to see. If needed I can pull the card and show some more up close

Shawn

 

[lemonadesoda]

Get rid of those little fans hanging about everywhere. They are not helping.

Cut a HUGE hole in the BACK of the cabinet

Leave your PC case sides OFF

Check your temps again

 

[thomasshawn]

pics of cabinet so far

holes cut in floor of desk. What can't be seen is 3x4" hole beneath these 3 circles. and barely visible is a 70mm fan blowing up through the holes.

CPU sits over the holes and air blows into bottom front of case. Side is off case.

White lines are where despite decreasing blade depth I hit the wall with the jigsaw. Then I switched to the dremel and did much better.

red line shows extent of rear hole. goes all the way to bottom of cabinet

My current everest data. CPU HSF is OEM with AS5
==========
Sensor Properties:
Sensor Type Abit MicroGuru (ISA E0h)
GPU Sensor Type National LM82 (NV-I2C 4Ch)
Motherboard Name Abit AN8 Series

Temperatures:
Motherboard 36 °C (97 °F)
CPU 35 °C (95 °F)
CPU #1 / Core #1 39 °C (102 °F)
CPU #1 / Core #2 42 °C (108 °F)
PWM 40 °C (104 °F)
GPU 33 °C (91 °F)
GPU Diode 58 °C (136 °F)
GPU Ambient 41 °C (106 °F)
WDC WD3000JB-00KFA0 41 °C (106 °F)
WDC WD800JB-00FMA0 43 °C (109 °F)

 

[dadi_oh]

I think you are on the right track. The last thing that would be useful to know is what the temps are under load. Absolute worst case temps can be determined using Prime95 or Orthos. However, those are not particulary representative. Maybe just play your favourite game for 1/2 hour and then immediately check your temps (alt tab to get to the desktop or use the charting function in Speedfan). Load temps and idle temps can be quite different. In my setup my CPU temp idles around 33degC, reaches 48degC after intense BF2142 play, and can hit 52degC using Prime95 100% load on both cores. I am perfectly happy with those temps.

 

[thomasshawn]

Tried to update last night...

I ran everest stress test for 45 minutes and got max temps at 57/59 on the CPU cores. GPU still running about 53-58. Interestingly the cabinet was a cool 28 degrees (previously over 40 routinely at idle and would shoot way up under any real load.) so my cabinet changes have made a HUGE difference..

I will try BF2 tonight and see how they fair. My current CPU HSF is the OEM. Waiting on new zalman on friday and hope to get to low to mid 30s with some chance at high 20s at idle and maybe max mid 40s under load. I am so much happier with the cabinet temps and the effect that is having, I really would take things as they are now. No stability problems and HDs are now routinely in the high 30s low 40s (previosuly hovered around 50) so I'm very happy and thank everyone for their ideas and support. I will upate later this week after I install the new cooler and am still entertaining some changes to the graphics card but I don't know exactly what I could/should do to lower those temps from low 50s to something more realistic.

What should I expect for that 6600GT card as far as temps?

 

[dadi_oh]

I ran everest stress test for 45 minutes and got max temps at 57/59 on the CPU cores. GPU still running about 53-58. Interestingly the cabinet was a cool 28 degrees (previously over 40 routinely at idle and would shoot way up under any real load.) so my cabinet changes have made a HUGE difference..

I will try BF2 tonight and see how they fair. My current CPU HSF is the OEM. Waiting on new zalman on friday and hope to get to low to mid 30s with some chance at high 20s at idle and maybe max mid 40s under load. I am so much happier with the cabinet temps and the effect that is having, I really would take things as they are now. No stability problems and HDs are now routinely in the high 30s low 40s (previosuly hovered around 50) so I'm very happy and thank everyone for their ideas and support. I will upate later this week after I install the new cooler and am still entertaining some changes to the graphics card but I don't know exactly what I could/should do to lower those temps from low 50s to something more realistic.

What should I expect for that 6600GT card as far as temps?

From my perspective you are fine now. 57-59 on the cores, which is the silicon itself, is lot's of margin. Max acceptable silicon temperature is ~85degC.

On the GPU side I would say you are also fine. My X1950Pro idles in the mid 40's and hit about 58degC last night playing BF2142. GPU temps seem to be routinely higher than CPU temps from what I have seen. I have heard of some of the high end cards running in the 70's with no issues at all.

It can be easy to fall into the "it can never be cool enough" trap at which point you are spending $$$ trying to compete with others on how low you can get your temps when ultimately, unless you are really baking things, the impact on long term reliability is negligible.

Good job though. Keep us posted on the Zalman 9500 results. I thought about that heatsink too before I settled on the Arctic Freezer 64 which was about half the price.

 

[Ketxxx]

GPU HSF looks meaty enough, I would just sand the base if it needs it, apply some decent thermal material and remount. If you make a BIOS dump from your card I can check the fan and make sure its running at a decent speed.

 

[Beertintedgoggles]

I've lapped two of those reference heatsinks for the 6600gt.... they take a very long time to get them flat. I went all the way up to 180 grit since they were so uneven before working down to 2000 grit. All in all, the idle temps dropped maybe 8C, the load temps will still get into the upper 60's. There just isn't enough aluminum above the graphics core to quickly remove the heat to the fins in those heatsinks; no matter how good you lap the bottom you won't be as well off as you would with just picking up a VF700 somewhere. If you're not overclocking the card, the stock HSF should be fine. If you don't want to sand down the bottom of that cooler, at least use some Arctic Silver 5 on there and you should see a few degree drop compared to the white paste they use.

 

[cdawall]

when these get back in stock at egg it should drop you gpu to very low 50C

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835109141

best $10 you can spend on that 6600GT oh adn it cools better than the zalman for a lot less