• We've upgraded our forums. Please post any issues/requests in this thread.

AMD Radeon HD 6850 Specs, Pricing Surfaces

Joined
Sep 11, 2009
Messages
2,680 (0.89/day)
Likes
693
Location
Reaching your left retina.
#26
if you ask me nvidia only have two cards to compete in descrete graphics.

460 and 470
the rest is pretty much rubish...

And they haven't picked up that much, loosing steady the last 12 months. atleast here.
Not according to Steam survey. They are doing quite well lately. You have to take into account that Fermi is relatively new. You need some months until you get enough market penetration and mainstream recognition. Evergreen didn't really start selling well until 3-6 months after release.



GTX480, 470, 465 and 460 all of them compete against the 5800 series. The combined DX11 share for GTX460-to-480 is 15,72% against 31.13% for HD5800. Twice the number of cards for twice the amount of time in the market. Thanks to GTX460 that will only raise in Nvidia's favor in October, most probably.
 
Joined
Aug 12, 2010
Messages
1,534 (0.57/day)
Likes
200
Location
Britland
System Name Gaming temp// HTPC
Processor AMD A6 5400k // A4 5300
Motherboard ASRock FM2A75 PRO4// ASRock FM2A55M-DGS
Cooling Xigmatek HDT-D1284 // stock phenom II HSF
Memory 4GB 1600mhz corsair vengeance // 4GB 1600mhz corsair vengeance low profile
Storage 64gb sandisk pulse SSD and 500gb HDD // 500gb HDD
Display(s) acer 22" 1680x1050
Power Supply Seasonic G-450 // Corsair CXM 430W
#27
*edit* beat to it :laugh:

Not according to Steam survey. They are doing quite well lately. You have to take into account that Fermi is relatively new. You need some months until you get enough market penetration and mainstream recognition. Evergreen didn't really start selling well until 3-6 months after release.


GTX480, 470, 465 and 460 all of them compete against the 5800 series. The combined DX11 share for GTX460-to-480 is 15,72% against 31.13% for HD5800. Twice the number of cards for twice the amount of time in the market. Thanks to GTX460 that will only raise in Nvidia's favor in October, most probably.
Notice that the 5800 and 5700 cards dropped around 16% in that time and the nvidia cards gained around 11%
 
Last edited:

Tatty_One

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jan 18, 2006
Messages
19,745 (4.54/day)
Likes
6,009
Location
Worcestershire, UK
Processor Skylake Core i7 6700k @ 4.6gig
Motherboard MSI Z170A Tomahawk
Cooling Cooler Master Seidon 240V AIO/Viper140's
Memory 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX 3000mhz CL14
Video Card(s) Sapphire 4gb R9 290X VaporX @1150mhz
Storage SkHynix SL308 120GB/CrucialM4/1TB WD Black
Display(s) LG 29inch 2560x1080 Curved Ultrawide IPS
Case Phanteks Enthoo Pro M Windowed - Gunmetal
Audio Device(s) Xifi Elite Pro 7.1/VideoLogic ZXR550's
Power Supply XFX Pro Black Edition 750W Gold modular
Keyboard CM Storm Octane Combo
Software Win 10 Home x64
#28
if you ask me nvidia only have two cards to compete in descrete graphics.

460 and 470
the rest is pretty much rubish...

And they haven't picked up that much, loosing steady the last 12 months. atleast here.
Lol, seeing as the 460 has not been out a year that is fairly irrelivent, Q3/Q4 results will show that the NVidia mid range products have caught up somewhat, lets face it the majority of the sales come from the low/mid sectors so the 480 was never going to Epic Fail them, the epic fail was down to the very late introduction of fermi and the fact that even when introduced it took them a while to get into the low/mid sectors.
 
Joined
Mar 1, 2008
Messages
242 (0.07/day)
Likes
46
Location
Antwerp, Belgium
Processor Intel Xeon X5650 @ 3.6Ghz - 1.2v
Motherboard Gigabyte G1.Assassin
Cooling Thermalright True Spirit 120
Memory 12GB DDR3 @ PC1600
Video Card(s) nVidia GeForce GTX 780 3GB
Storage 256GB Samsung 840 Pro + 3TB + 3TB + 2TB
Display(s) HP ZR22w
Case Antec P280
Audio Device(s) Asus Xonar DS
Power Supply Antec HCG-620M
Software Windows 7 x64
#29
thanks for the info from what i see this is like 3xxx series not much for an upgrade
from the 2xxx
You couldn't be more wrong.
This is going to be the biggest upgrade (architectural change) since R600.
 
Joined
Mar 1, 2008
Messages
242 (0.07/day)
Likes
46
Location
Antwerp, Belgium
Processor Intel Xeon X5650 @ 3.6Ghz - 1.2v
Motherboard Gigabyte G1.Assassin
Cooling Thermalright True Spirit 120
Memory 12GB DDR3 @ PC1600
Video Card(s) nVidia GeForce GTX 780 3GB
Storage 256GB Samsung 840 Pro + 3TB + 3TB + 2TB
Display(s) HP ZR22w
Case Antec P280
Audio Device(s) Asus Xonar DS
Power Supply Antec HCG-620M
Software Windows 7 x64
#30
Not according to Steam survey. They are doing quite well lately. You have to take into account that Fermi is relatively new. You need some months until you get enough market penetration and mainstream recognition. Evergreen didn't really start selling well until 3-6 months after release.

GTX480, 470, 465 and 460 all of them compete against the 5800 series. The combined DX11 share for GTX460-to-480 is 15,72% against 31.13% for HD5800. Twice the number of cards for twice the amount of time in the market. Thanks to GTX460 that will only raise in Nvidia's favor in October, most probably.
That's one way to count it.
I see it more like 84.14% DX11 ATI market share vs 15.72% for nVidia.
Just because nVidia is one year later than ATI with mainstream products (GTS450 & GT430), doesn't mean you can discount half of ATI's product range. With ATI people have had a chose from low-end to high-end.
 
Joined
Apr 1, 2010
Messages
218 (0.08/day)
Likes
14
#31
You couldn't be more wrong.
This is going to be the biggest upgrade (architectural change) since R600.
realy architectural i am not buying a house the main reason for upgrade is more performance
for the same money if i buy a card for 200$ and a new card comes it has to be stronger.
less power for the same performance is not an upgrade for me would you upgrade your cpu
for a cpu with the same performance but less power that will be waste of money
 

Fourstaff

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Nov 29, 2009
Messages
9,376 (3.20/day)
Likes
2,100
Location
Home
System Name Asus K50-X5DAB \\ Orange!
Processor Athlon QL-65 2.2Ghz \\ 3570K
Motherboard Laptop \\ ASRock z77 Extreme4
Cooling Laptop \\ H100i
Memory 1x1GB + 1X2GB \\ 2x4Gb 1600Mhz CL9 Corsair XMS3
Video Card(s) Mobility Radeon HD4570 512mb \\ Zotac 660Ti OC 2Gb
Storage 250Gb \\ Samsung 840 250Gb + Toshiba DT01ACA300 3Tb
Display(s) 15.6" 1366x768 \\ LG 22EA53VQ
Case Laptop Chassis \\ NZXT Phantom 410 Black/Orange
Power Supply Power Brick \\ Corsair CXM500w
#32
Actually, to be fair, NVidia is selling a large amount of Fermi ATM, things have picked up with them considerably since the 460.
Indeed they have, but the initial negative publicity was very bad, just like the Xbox 360.
 
Joined
Sep 11, 2009
Messages
2,680 (0.89/day)
Likes
693
Location
Reaching your left retina.
#33
That's one way to count it.
I see it more like 84.14% DX11 ATI market share vs 15.72% for nVidia.
Just because nVidia is one year later than ATI with mainstream products (GTS450 & GT430), doesn't mean you can discount half of ATI's product range. With ATI people have had a chose from low-end to high-end.
It was being discussed if Nvidia cards were selling or not, not how many Ati/Nvidia cards are out there. And the cards that are on the market already, are selling, that's the point. There's no figures for GTS450, but we'll see them in October I guess.

You clearly don't know what market share is btw. Everything points out that market share is 50/50 right now, maybe even a little bit in Nvidia's advantage.
 

OBR

New Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2005
Messages
39 (0.01/day)
Likes
3
Location
Czechia
Processor Many High-end CPUs
Motherboard Many best mobos
Cooling Ultimate watercooling
Memory Many Dominators GT
Video Card(s) Lo of VGAs
Storage Lot od disks
Display(s) 3x LCD 30" HP
Case Lian Li
Audio Device(s) X-fi Fatality
Power Supply Lot of ..
Software Win 7 Ultimate
#34
This is bigger BS ive read here in last year ... everything in this NEWSPOST is wrong :)
 
Joined
Aug 12, 2010
Messages
1,534 (0.57/day)
Likes
200
Location
Britland
System Name Gaming temp// HTPC
Processor AMD A6 5400k // A4 5300
Motherboard ASRock FM2A75 PRO4// ASRock FM2A55M-DGS
Cooling Xigmatek HDT-D1284 // stock phenom II HSF
Memory 4GB 1600mhz corsair vengeance // 4GB 1600mhz corsair vengeance low profile
Storage 64gb sandisk pulse SSD and 500gb HDD // 500gb HDD
Display(s) acer 22" 1680x1050
Power Supply Seasonic G-450 // Corsair CXM 430W
#35
This is bigger BS ive read here in last year ... everything in this NEWSPOST is wrong :)
Then tell us the right information and quote your sources :p
 

Tatty_One

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jan 18, 2006
Messages
19,745 (4.54/day)
Likes
6,009
Location
Worcestershire, UK
Processor Skylake Core i7 6700k @ 4.6gig
Motherboard MSI Z170A Tomahawk
Cooling Cooler Master Seidon 240V AIO/Viper140's
Memory 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX 3000mhz CL14
Video Card(s) Sapphire 4gb R9 290X VaporX @1150mhz
Storage SkHynix SL308 120GB/CrucialM4/1TB WD Black
Display(s) LG 29inch 2560x1080 Curved Ultrawide IPS
Case Phanteks Enthoo Pro M Windowed - Gunmetal
Audio Device(s) Xifi Elite Pro 7.1/VideoLogic ZXR550's
Power Supply XFX Pro Black Edition 750W Gold modular
Keyboard CM Storm Octane Combo
Software Win 10 Home x64
#37
This is bigger BS ive read here in last year ... everything in this NEWSPOST is wrong :)
Ohhhh Noes my "troll" sensor has just gone off :rolleyes:
 
Joined
Apr 29, 2008
Messages
742 (0.21/day)
Likes
134
Location
Auckland
System Name PBD
Processor Core i5 760 @ 4.0GHz
Motherboard Asus Maximus III Gene
Cooling Corsair H-50-1
Memory 4 x 4096mb G.Skill Ripjaws 1600 Cas7
Video Card(s) ASUS GTX 670 DirectCU TOP
Storage Crucial 256GB SSD (system) + 2x Samsung F3 1TB (storage) + 2x 2TB Raid-1 NAS (backup)
Display(s) Dell SP2309w 23" 2048x1152
Case Antec Max Fusion Remote
Power Supply Corsair AX750W
Software Win 7 Pro x64
#38
Urgh ... bored with people complaining about the product name/number.

If you look at the product numbers alone, by rights a HD5570 should be faster than a HD4890; it's got a higher number right? Wrong. You know this. I know this. Everyone that's vaguely interested in computer tech knows this.
I don't understand why people are still getting their knickers twisted about a logical number change. It's done. Everyone knows what it means now. Move along. Anyone that doesn't first look at W1zz's review of the 6800 series before buying one, thinking it'll be a significant upgrade to the 5800, kind of deserves what they get.

Summary:
  • Barts is the successor to HD5700
  • It's getting a different second digit this time (second best chip = second highest identifier)
  • Cayman is the successor to the HD5800
  • It's getting a different second digit this time too (best chip = highest identifier)
  • We all know this
  • Move along
 
Last edited:
Joined
May 21, 2008
Messages
4,090 (1.17/day)
Likes
766
Location
Iowa, USA
System Name FUTURE CUBE!
Processor intel Core i5 6600k
Motherboard Gigabyte Z170X-Gaming 7
Cooling Phanteks PH-TC14PE BK
Memory G.Skill TridentZ 3000 Mhz C15 32GB 2x16GB
Video Card(s) Gigabyte Aorus 1080 Ti
Storage 2x M.2 Samsung Evo 250GB/500GB / WD Blue 500GB / 2x RAID1 Toshiba P300 3TB
Display(s) Samsung C24FG70 1080p 144hz Quantum Dot/ASUS VH226H 1080p 21.5"
Case "THE CUBE" Custom built, pure Red Alder wood
Audio Device(s) Creative Sound Core3D/ Logitech Z-2300 200 watts/ Beyerdynamic DT 880
Power Supply Seasonic X Gold 650W
Mouse Logitech G700
Keyboard Logitech G910
Software Windows 10 Pro
#39
^^ true dat im getting tired of crybabies its not hard to figure out takes a max 2min.
 
Joined
Jul 28, 2008
Messages
999 (0.29/day)
Likes
170
System Name Filtration tower
Processor i5 2500k@3.8ghz
Motherboard Gigabyte Z77
Cooling Noctua14
Memory DDR3 8gbs
Video Card(s) Zotac GTX970 Extreme
Storage intel ssd 220gbs
Display(s) AOC 2560x1080
Case Thermaltake v71
Audio Device(s) onboard
Power Supply corsair 500w
#40
yes yes ,,, lets move on, we do always so lets hurry up
anyway, cant wait to see how these overclock,, but i wonder if 6870 is at 900mhz already, how much oc room will it have, im assuming 6850 will have more room obviously
_____________________________

Antec1200 filter project
 
Joined
Apr 29, 2008
Messages
742 (0.21/day)
Likes
134
Location
Auckland
System Name PBD
Processor Core i5 760 @ 4.0GHz
Motherboard Asus Maximus III Gene
Cooling Corsair H-50-1
Memory 4 x 4096mb G.Skill Ripjaws 1600 Cas7
Video Card(s) ASUS GTX 670 DirectCU TOP
Storage Crucial 256GB SSD (system) + 2x Samsung F3 1TB (storage) + 2x 2TB Raid-1 NAS (backup)
Display(s) Dell SP2309w 23" 2048x1152
Case Antec Max Fusion Remote
Power Supply Corsair AX750W
Software Win 7 Pro x64
#41
What day does the NDA end, anyway?

My credit card is poised for a semi-new build (i5 760 + mobo + RAM + GPU) - and I would love to have near-5870 performance for <5850 prices - which will hopefully be where the 6870 ends up. It's either that or a heavily OC'd 460.
 
Joined
Apr 12, 2010
Messages
1,261 (0.45/day)
Likes
328
Processor Core i7 920
Motherboard Asus P6T v2
Cooling Noctua D-14
Memory OCZ Gold 1600
Video Card(s) Powercolor PCS+ 5870
Storage Samsung SpinPoint F3 1 TB
Display(s) Samsung LE-B530 37" TV
Case Lian Li PC-B25F
Audio Device(s) N/A
Power Supply Thermaltake Toughpower 700w
Software Windows 7 64-bit
#42
I don't understand why people are still getting their knickers twisted about a logical number change. It's done. Everyone knows what it means now. Move along. Anyone that doesn't first look at W1zz's review of the 6800 series before buying one, thinking it'll be a significant upgrade to the 5800, kind of deserves what they get.
Firstly, there is nothing logical about the change. Secondly, not everyone is an enthusiast: a lot of these cards will be put into pre-built systems and in the face of a deliberate attempt to deceive, placing the onus on the consumer is misguided at best. There is little justification for the number change and whilst it's not something that I'll lose any sleep over, I have no problem drawing attention to underhand marketing practices, irrespective of the company in question.
 
Joined
Jul 28, 2008
Messages
999 (0.29/day)
Likes
170
System Name Filtration tower
Processor i5 2500k@3.8ghz
Motherboard Gigabyte Z77
Cooling Noctua14
Memory DDR3 8gbs
Video Card(s) Zotac GTX970 Extreme
Storage intel ssd 220gbs
Display(s) AOC 2560x1080
Case Thermaltake v71
Audio Device(s) onboard
Power Supply corsair 500w
#43
hey gumpty, if ur main computer use revolved around gaming, would it be better to get (i5 760 + mobo + RAM + GPU), or leave system as is, but get a more powerful 6900 series gpu? just wondering,, i myslef been using phenomIIx4 940 at 3.6ghz for almost 2 years now,,thinking of similar semi-new build, but how much of an improvement is i5 over 3ghz+ phenomIIx4 or q6600
_____________________________

Antec1200 filter project
 

brandonwh64

Addicted to Bacon and StarCrunches!!!
Joined
Sep 6, 2009
Messages
19,516 (6.47/day)
Likes
6,936
Location
Chatsworth, GA
System Name The StarCrunch Defender! | X58 Cruncher!
Processor I7 6700K @ STOCK | Intel I7-920
Motherboard Gigabyte Z170X-UD5 | Alienware MS-7543 X58
Cooling Corsair A70 Push/Pull | Corsair H50
Memory Crucial Ballistix DDR4 2400 MHz | Pereema 3x2GB DDR3
Video Card(s) Gigabyte Gaming G1 GTX 1070 | Gigabyte 7970 3GB
Storage 2x Samsung Pro 256GB M.2 SSD's in Raid 0 | 4TB Western Digital SATA drive
Display(s) ViewSonic VG2227wm 1080P | OLD viewsonics
Case NZXT Tempest 410 Elite | NZXT Source 210
Audio Device(s) Onboard
Power Supply Corsair 750TX | Enermax Liberty 500W
Mouse MX518 | MX502
Keyboard TESORO Mechanical | ANZO Mechanical
Software Windows 10 Pro on both
#44
Nice CARD!
 
Joined
Dec 14, 2009
Messages
6,582 (2.25/day)
Likes
5,815
Location
Glasgow - home of formal profanity
System Name New Ho'Ryzen
Processor Ryzen 1700X @ 3.82Ghz
Motherboard Asus Crosshair VI Hero
Cooling TR Le Grand Macho & custom GPU loop
Memory 16Gb G.Skill 3200 RGB
Video Card(s) GTX1080ti (Heatkiller WB) @ 2Ghz core/1.5(12)Ghz mem
Storage Samsumg 960 Pro m2. 512Gb
Display(s) Dell Ultrasharp 27" (2560x1440)
Case Lian Li PC-V33WX
Audio Device(s) On Board
Power Supply Seasonic Prime TItanium 850
Software W10
Benchmark Scores Look, it's a Ryzen on air........ What's the point?
#45
Everything points out that market share is 50/50 right now, maybe even a little bit in Nvidia's advantage
Yes, now. The GTX 460 definitely has the win. However, the point other people are making is that because it was 'x' months behind, many people have already bought their DX11 cards from ATI. This means I went ATI back in 09. So because many people have already bought into the DX11 carnival with ATI products, they aren't buying cards now.

So in summary, NV right now are probably selling more DX 11 parts (because many people went out and got theirs from ATI back then.) So it's NV's turn to get the volume. I've also noticed less ATI 58xx parts in the channels, stock being depleted perhaps?

So all in all, we're all happy :)
 
Joined
Jun 22, 2010
Messages
366 (0.13/day)
Likes
91
#46
I sense Amd and Ati both have something up their sleeves. :cool: Nvida knows they are about to be 'served' lol.. and will continue to lower prices.

Any news on how the 6000's will fold ?
 
Joined
Apr 29, 2008
Messages
742 (0.21/day)
Likes
134
Location
Auckland
System Name PBD
Processor Core i5 760 @ 4.0GHz
Motherboard Asus Maximus III Gene
Cooling Corsair H-50-1
Memory 4 x 4096mb G.Skill Ripjaws 1600 Cas7
Video Card(s) ASUS GTX 670 DirectCU TOP
Storage Crucial 256GB SSD (system) + 2x Samsung F3 1TB (storage) + 2x 2TB Raid-1 NAS (backup)
Display(s) Dell SP2309w 23" 2048x1152
Case Antec Max Fusion Remote
Power Supply Corsair AX750W
Software Win 7 Pro x64
#47
Firstly, there is nothing logical about the change. Secondly, not everyone is an enthusiast: a lot of these cards will be put into pre-built systems and in the face of a deliberate attempt to deceive, placing the onus on the consumer is misguided at best. There is little justification for the number change and whilst it's not something that I'll lose any sleep over, I have no problem drawing attention to underhand marketing practices, irrespective of the company in question.
There is logic behind it. As I said above, the best chip (Cayman) gets the highest identifier (#9##), while the second best chip (Barts) gets the second highest identifier (#8##).
If they are priced as a successor to HD5700, then a pre-built system with a 5870 will cost more than a pre-built system with a 6870. And how long are the 5800 series going to be around for anyway? I thought their replacement was due by the end of the year.

I have yet to meet someone that is clued up enough to change a part in their PC, yet not clued up enough to check out reviews online first.

I agree that it is a largely unnecessary change, but it does have some logic behind it. And at the end of the day, every corporation is out there to make as much money as possible, and there are no morals in business, so if they do it by picking random numbers to confuse people, well so be it. Hopefully we can remain ahead of the game.

hey gumpty, if ur main computer use revolved around gaming, would it be better to get (i5 760 + mobo + RAM + GPU), or leave system as is, but get a more powerful 6900 series gpu? just wondering,, i myslef been using phenomIIx4 940 at 3.6ghz for almost 2 years now,,thinking of similar semi-new build, but how much of an improvement is i5 over 3ghz+ phenomIIx4 or q6600
These are very good questions, but off topic so I'll be brief. Wanted to go AMD but performance/watt is not as good as Intel at the £150 price-point. Upgrading cause for some reason I can't get my Q6600 to overclock anymore. The new GPU wont be a huge upgrade in terms of performance, but will hopefully be more power-efficient and smaller (small case).
 

CDdude55

Crazy 4 TPU!!!
Joined
Jul 12, 2007
Messages
8,178 (2.15/day)
Likes
1,269
Location
Virginia
System Name CDdude's Rig!
Processor AMD Athlon II X4 620
Motherboard Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD3
Cooling Corsair H70
Memory 8GB Corsair Vengence @1600mhz
Video Card(s) XFX HD 6970 2GB
Storage OCZ Agility 3 60GB SSD/WD Velociraptor 300GB
Display(s) ASUS VH232H 23" 1920x1080
Case Cooler Master CM690 (w/ side window)
Audio Device(s) Onboard (It sounds fine)
Power Supply Corsair 850TX
Software Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit SP1
#48
Looks like a pretty good refresh, nothing to go crazy over imo.

Still waiting for performance numbers for these cards though.
 
Joined
Jul 28, 2008
Messages
999 (0.29/day)
Likes
170
System Name Filtration tower
Processor i5 2500k@3.8ghz
Motherboard Gigabyte Z77
Cooling Noctua14
Memory DDR3 8gbs
Video Card(s) Zotac GTX970 Extreme
Storage intel ssd 220gbs
Display(s) AOC 2560x1080
Case Thermaltake v71
Audio Device(s) onboard
Power Supply corsair 500w
#49
Any news on how the 6000's will fold ?
i was wondering the same thing,
from earlier reports we're lead to believe that these stream cores are individually more complex than AMD's traditional 5D (4 simple 1 complex)
maybe 6800's more complex shaders will change things in the folding world, as in better folding performance for radeon cards
_____________________________

Antec1200 filter project
 

wahdangun

New Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2008
Messages
1,511 (0.45/day)
Likes
114
Location
indonesia ku tercinta
System Name blacky
Processor amd 5000+ BE @ 3.0 ghz
Motherboard MSI K9NGM
Cooling artic colling frezzer 64
Memory V-GEN 1,5 GB
Video Card(s) ati radeon hd 3850
Storage seagate 250gb
Display(s) compaq 7500
Case simbada sim-x (cheapo chasis)
Audio Device(s) creative x-fi extreme music
Power Supply antec earth watt series
Benchmark Scores hohoho
#50
Not according to Steam survey. They are doing quite well lately. You have to take into account that Fermi is relatively new. You need some months until you get enough market penetration and mainstream recognition. Evergreen didn't really start selling well until 3-6 months after release.

http://img.techpowerup.org/101014/steamhwdx11.jpg

GTX480, 470, 465 and 460 all of them compete against the 5800 series. The combined DX11 share for GTX460-to-480 is 15,72% against 31.13% for HD5800. Twice the number of cards for twice the amount of time in the market. Thanks to GTX460 that will only raise in Nvidia's favor in October, most probably.
hmm thats quite true GTX 460 was the "perfect fermi" but its still not an high end card, and with this bart and cayman maybe it will be decline again, and AMD will have the full line up in steam?