An Enthusiast Review of CoolClouds' Revolutionary CPU Cooler Prototype

[TheHobbyist]

I apologize for the delay in my response. Lets begin!

 

[Hellfire]

Okay, projected Retail price of the product?

Surely this weight is too much on the board?

 

[TheHobbyist]

Aside from the Captherm, hasn't this idea been tried years ago, I seem to recall this design before, I just cant seem to find images.

I remember something along these lines before as well... I believe it was before the AIO coolers with the "external" radiators really came into popularity. I will post if I find the one I am thinking of.

....I'm not seeing anything here that is revolutionary. They've decreased the size of everything, but nothing is new. The tubing has decreased in size, as to be functionally non-existant. The incorporated pump is likely very similar to other ceramic motors, if not just an off-the-shelf solution. I see only an evolution, skirting the patents filed by some other companies (read: the ones that removed Swiftech from the AIO cooler market last year). I don't have a substantially good feeling about this product not seeing a patent suit filed against it.

Regarding patents, CoolClouds as a company has been making electronics coolers with this technology for years. They make custom cooling solutions for servers, communications hardware, military applications, etc. I had the chance to see some of their stuff when I toured the office. You can also see examples of some of their business coolers at http://www.coolclouds.net/ Their implementation does have patents behind it, but you would have to ask them about that.

Why does it out-perform other coolers (like the H80i)? There are two simple reasons, less impedance from tubing and copper construction. I'd bet both of these factors rather dramatically increase the cost of the system, but I can't confirm this without a price (convenient that it wasn't provided?). It doesn't seem fair to compare a sub $100 cooler to a much more expensive one. I'm still betting a custom loop with a 120mm radiator and wide tubing will beat the pants off of this thing, though I cannot prove my guess at this time.

I alluded to my reasoning for the better performance in my review. In my opinion, I think it is due to 1) copper 2) the use of water instead of the fluids used by mixed-metal AIO coolers 3) better radiator design (HEX Optimization). Regarding the price: The first production model (As seen in the "Future" section of the review) is going for $99 on their IndieGoGo that is currently running. I did not include the price of the production model or a link to the IndieGoGo campaign because this is simply my review of a prototype of their technology. This isn't a review of the production model, and I'm not trying to sell you a prototype.

I have three qualms with this thing, and they aren't being addressed by this review. First, what weight are we looking at here? A radiator, pump, and fans aren't going to be light, and you're banking on a motherboard enduring the stress of this weight hanging from it. Sounds like a recipe for disaster. Two, what kind of finish are we looking at? Untreated copper is nice to look at, until is rapidly starts oxidation. I'm not sure about everyone else, but copper oxides don't come anywhere near my motherboards. Finally, how much does this cost? A high end air cooler, and moderate cost AIO perform similarly. We could be looking at something that performs only marginally better than either of them, with a much heavier price tag. I'm refrain from judgement until that information can be confirmed.

I'll do my best to clear up your questions:
1) I weighed the prototype (since that is what I have on hand, and what I reviewed) and it comes in at almost 900g with the fans. This is actually the same as the Noctua NH-D14, which I also have on hand.
2) The prototype I tested and reviewed is unfinished copper. If you are interested in the finish of the production unit, I believe it is electroplated black. Likely more info on that on the IndieGoGo or their website.
3) Cost: I have no idea how much a prototype costs. I think in such low volumes you would be looking at a few thousand dollars at least. If you are asking about the production unit, the pricing is on the IndieGoGo campaign. The production unit also differs from what I reviewed here. I picked the Corsair H80i AIO because the CoolClouds prototype uses a 120mm radiator, and community feedback seemed to place the H80i at the top of 120mm AIO's. I picked the Nocua NH-D14 because it is extremely popular with enthusiasts and it is the opinion of many that it is the best air cooler (I know there are others like the phantek, etc, but that is the majority opinion).

Unfortunately, this review seems to exist in a vacuum. The performance figures are interesting, but the bottom line is there's not enough information to make a call. Kudos on the performance figures, and thank you for your effort.

I didn't post this review with the intention of getting any of you to buy anything lol! This prototype will not be for sale. I had a chance to test out a prototype of a new cooler form factor and I thought I would share my objective data and subjective opinion from the experience. Thank you for the Kudos! I worked hard to put together the review to share my experience and I didn't realize I would offend so many!

Thanks for reading, and Cheers!

 

[erocker]

For a prototype the results look quite promising.

 

[Norton]

I remember something along these lines before as well... I believe it was before the AIO coolers with the "external" radiators really came into popularity. I will post if I find the one I am thinking of.

Maybe this one from Xigmatek?

 

[TheHobbyist]

Jesus, thats 300g heavier than a Noctua NH-D14 :O


As for the end look, it looks like blackened metal according to the CGI design at the bottom

Hello Hellfire!

I weighed the prototype and it is about 900g with the 2 fans on. That's actually the same as the Noctua Nh-D14! Beastly indeed!

The prototype is unfinished copper.

If you are looking for info on the production model, you'd have to check the IndieGoGo or their website at http://www.coolclouds.net/

Cheers!

same weight as my IFX-14 in Tri TY-147 setup (1305g) yet i cant see this outperforming that one.

as for the website i think they are a bit too enthusiast about their own product (well kinda logical in the end) nothing revolutionary and

"Since SuprCool™ heat sinks are so effective at such a small size, they make an ideal solution for high-performance personal computing. Enthusiasts continually search for better, faster platforms and overclocking is a time-honored tradition to supercharge stock computer platforms. In the future, CoolClouds’ SuprCool™ will have a heat sink that removes the barrier to clock speeds without requiring a hack saw. Simply replace the CPU heat sink on your latest Intel or AMD CPU with a SuprCool V14 Cooler and ramp up the power and performance of your personal computer.

SuprCool V14

This SuprCool™ heat sink unleashes the performance of your personal computer. With this compact unit, you can overclock to over 200 watts, and keep the processor well under it rated temperature. In fact, the capacity of our heat sink to cool far outpaces the operation wattage of current processor design. SuprCool™ not only allows for much better performance now, it raises the ceiling to allow for exponentially increased wattage operation development across the the processor marketplace."

that description is kinda ... nothing that a good air or AIO CWC can do actually.

depending the pricing it could be just another AIO (if the pricing is equale to a H80i then i call it not worth it)

Greeting GreiverBlade!

I had some hands-on time with the prototype and these are the figures I got from it. There are quite a few differences between this first prototype and what would be their production offering. The prototype reviewed here is not for sale. The production model is going for $99 on their IndieGoGo however. Again though, my prototype review does not reflect whatever the performance of the production unit will be.

Thanks for reading!

 

[Hellfire]

Hello Hellfire!

I weighed the prototype and it is about 900g with the 2 fans on. That's actually the same as the Noctua Nh-D14! Beastly indeed!

The prototype is unfinished copper.

If you are looking for info on the production model, you'd have to check the IndieGoGo or their website at http://www.coolclouds.net/

Cheers!

Ho come your review says 1500g

 

[TheHobbyist]

I don't see what all negativity posted, no one is forcing you to buy it, this is just a first look at prototype unit, w/o even price yet .

Ok, here few pluses That "might" be advantageous .
1) its all in one construction might make it that defective pump would still keep CPU somewhat cool (since it might be able to transfer heat through convention )
2) the passages might have very good size, like equal to 1/2" area for very good flow.
3) since the area from CPU base to rad is so short faster response time to heat pikes .

It be interesting to see what happens with pump off in a test .

Thanks Ed_1 and hello!

I was kinda slammed by the negativity there a bit =) You are right though, I just wanted to share my objective data and subjective opinion about my experience with a prototype. I didn't review the production model and the prototype isn't for sale =)

1) A few people asked about this in the other forums and piqued my interest. I'm going to run it without the pump hooked up to power and see how it does. I will also try with no pump and no fans =) I think it will be enough for stock settings at load. We'll see!
2) I'm not sure what goes on inside, but it seems to work well =) In the interest of overclocking, I hope their production unit cools like a monster obviously =)
3) It deals very well with heat spikes due to the circulating water. That's a given advantage of a water cooled system over a heatpipe solution.

I'll post my no-pump findings as I get a chance to run the experiment

Cheers!

I suspect the negativity comes mostly from the fact that this is posited as a impartial 3rd party review when clearly it isn't. It is an ad.

Hello CJCerny!

Hi, I'm TheHobbyist, and I am an impartial 3rd party who posted a review of a prototype that is not for sale. I also did not link to anywhere where such an item would be for sale. CoolClouds let me test their prototype in an enthusiast manner because the enthusiast communities were requesting such a thing. I posted my objective data and my subjective opinion of my experience with a prototype. This isn't an ad, and it isn't for sale. I'm sorry for the confusion I caused.

Cheers!

And the fact it weighs a tonne, is from a company that haven't made any coolers for enthusiasts of any note before, it's a review from a random guy who joined the forums (I assume he's also joined other to copy paste the same stuff too), and that the review itself is pretty poorly laid out in terms of graphs. I want to see at least 10 of the top coolers tested all on the same hardware and put into a relative graph to show performance differences at different frequencies. It also doesn't mention pricing. If this thing costs more than the D14, or the Cryorig, or the Phanteks, and yet performs about the same, but costs a pretty penny more (due to copper usage), then this thing is worthless to the market besides showing other manufacturers why they shouldn't bother investing in this kind of RnD.

This review is too vague, and too informal for what is basically a shameless advertisement. It's like a dodgy kickstarter. They might have all the good will in the world, but this is not how to sell a prototype product to anyone.

Hello RCoon!

- I just weighed the prototype I reviewed and it clocked in at about 900g with the fans. That's about the same weight as the Noctua NH-D14 I have here as well.
- It is from a company, CoolClouds, who makes custom coolers for business for servers, communications electronics, and military applications. I had the chance to meet with the team and they wanted to see if enthusiasts would be interested in their technology. I was interested, but I guess it's your opinion that no one new should try to make coolers for enthusiasts?
- As far as me being a random guy: I have been reading these forums since as long as they have been here. I didn't post here often so I forgot my login and had to re-register. I primarily post on hardocp.com, but I rarely have time to post as my job and family keep me very busy. FYI, I also posted this review on anandtech, hardocp, and overclock.net. Those are the 4 that I read at my leisure and I thought I would share this cool opportunity I had.
- Regarding the review itself: I'm a regular guy with a job who enjoys computers as a hobby. I don't have 10 of the top coolers. I picked what seemed to be community opinion as the best performing 120mm AIO and the best performing Air cooler and then benchmarked them on a typical enthusiast system in a manner that is nearly identical to the way hardocp tests coolers. I bow to you an apologize that my free review that you are free to read or not read does not meet your standards. If you would like to see something else in particular, I might even give it a go if you ask nicely. Sheesh.
- You are right, I didn't mention price, nor did I link to where it can be purchased. It can't be purchased, and it has no price.
- There is a production model that I described briefly in the "Future" section of my review. It goes for $99 on their IndieGoGo. However, it has some differences from the prototype I reviewed here. If you want more info on the production model, check their website http://www.coolclouds.net/ or their IndieGoGo campaign.

Again, I'm sorry my review of the prototype was too "Vague." I'm just an enthusiast and not a writer. If you would like to see something in particular, let me know. If it came off as a "shameless advertisement" I guess it's because I have a positive opinion of the prototype. However, it's not even for sale. Honestly, the enthusiast communities asked CoolClouds to let an enthusiast have some hands-on time with the prototype. I happened to be the guy to test it out and write about it. They gave me a tour of the offices, showed me their coolers, and let me take home an expensive prototype of theirs and share my experience with enthusiasts. I thought it was pretty cool of them.

$2500 and you get a custom built pc........with Intel HD graphics..

Bahahahahahahahahahahahaha

I might be looking at this differently than you, but it looks like that's the core of the system and the other perks that are video cards allow you to chose which one you would like in the system. Or, for that matter, you can get the system and re-use the expensive video card you already have.

Looking at Puget Systems, XoticPC, CyberPower, and MainGear, it looks like their pricing is in line for a system of the same configuration.

I build my own systems personally, but no everyone can.

Ouch. It's only raised $234 of a $100 000 target with 3 weeks to go and 5 weeks passed.

Seems like a sound enough idea but perhaps should have sold to Asetek or one of the AIO brands. Niche market, hard sell.

Hello the54thvoid!

Thanks for stopping by! I hope you enjoyed my prototype review more than everyone else =) Personally, I think the tech is great and I wish them the best of luck at reaching their goal. Having seen first hand their other business products, I bet they could make some really awesome stuff for enthusiasts!

Cheers!

And with that in mind, the thread is closed. We would be delighted to see a full test/review of the final retail product when available and encourage the Op to share the final product with us.

Edit: I am re-opening the thread, I have been in conversation with the OP and am happy that he is neither employed by the company or making any gain from this, he wants the opportunity to respond to questions so please keep things constructive.

Thanks for keeping this open and for clarifying Tatty_One. I'm sure when the production units are in, it will be the likes of the professional reviewers who will have them in hand. I am grateful for the opportunity they gave me though!

 

[erocker]

Hello TheHobbyist!

Please make use of the multi-quote feature instead of consecutively posting.

Thank you!

 

[TheHobbyist]

Okay, projected Retail price of the product?

Surely this weight is too much on the board?

I just reviewed the prototype, which is not for sale. But, as mentioned elsewhere, it looks like their projected retail price for the production model is $99 on their IndieGoGo.

The CoolClouds team gave me the 1500g spec for the prototype, but weighing it it looks like it's about 900g. I guess they made a typo or they over-estimated the weight. 900g is about the same as the Noctua NH-D14, so I guess it's ok for the board.

Cheers!

For a prototype the results look quite promising.

Hello erocker!

I was pretty impressed! I look forward to seeing what they can do with a production model!

Cheers!

Maybe this one from Xigmatek?

Yes! Thank you Norton! That's exactly what I was thinking of! I think there was also one that incorporated a pelter cooler as well.

Ho come your review says 1500g

1500g was the figure they gave me, must have been an over-estimate

Hello TheHobbyist!

Please make use of the multi-quote feature instead of consecutively posting.

Thank you!

Noted! The posts were kind of long and the backlog was a lot. I was just trying to keep everything straight!

 

[lilhasselhoffer]

Thanks for the replies TheHobbyist.

You'll have to excuse my anger, but your lack of replies seemed to imply less than honest intentions. For that assumption, I must apologize.



I'm ambivalent about this project, though you have addressed my concerns to this point. My remaining concerns, in order of their relevance:
1) Testing a non-production model generally shouldn't be an acceptable solution. A custom produced product more often than not doesn't yield the same results (read: UL certification procedures...).
2) Kickstarter/Indiegogo/other crowd funding sites are designed for small teams to produce new products. If the people you are talking about have an established company, a good product, manufacturing facilities, and a patent trail why in hades do they need my money? This is where a respectable business would get a loan, so that they owned their product, and could determine everything about it. I don't trust "respectable" businesses that go out and get funding like this. They are trying to underwrite development cost, which I find an unacceptable practice.
3) Engineering. If you specify 1500g, but the test model is 900g, then you're either producing a failed test unit or you've got some crappy engineers. Neither point instills a ton of confidence in me. Even supposing the 1500g is a maximum, specifying a cooler weight without the fans should take precedence if the unit is sold without fans. When the weight is this high you need to tell people what to expect, rather than giving a ball park figure.
4) Nominal performance gains are the only benefit to this product. These people want me to buy another new cooler, so they've got to sell it to me. The price to performance is the only reasonable part of this equation. I have to wait for delivery, I don't have an appreciable warranty, I don't know what product I'm actually going to be getting (CG models don't match test unit, so which do you trust), and I don't even know if I'll be getting the product in a timely fashion (how many products have you received on time?).
5) Patents. There are no longer applicable patents in the USA on fluid pumps, basic radiators, or blocks. You could buy these components without having to pay a patent royalty, no matter who produced them. On the other hand, Asetech patent trolled hard by saying that other people using their pump/block with attached radiator was a patent protected product. If you've kept up on the news of the last year, you'd know that Swiftech pulled their AIO solutions from the market so they didn't have to face Asetech in patent court. Any clever lawyer could argue that this product is the same thing. The only reason that this company has been shielded in the past is their obviously limited share of a niche market. Once you release this thing to compete with the H80i and its ilk (because Asetech produces basically all of the AIO solutions) you'll experience actual scrutiny. I'd be angry if an injunction prevented my cooler from being made, despite me paying for it well in advance.

6) This is a niggling doubt, but it needs to be addressed. The cooler dimensions are bass-ackward. It's basically going to have a huge cooler, and a substantial weight. If you read the fine print on other big coolers, they recommend that you don't mount them on a vertically oriented board. Call me a cynic, but having difficulty finding a case deep enough for a big cooler is a pain. Finding one with a horizontal mount is even more of a pain. having the heavy bit detachable, as in connected by tube, makes mounting easier. Why you would give up that flexibility is a mystery.



I'll stick with my guns here. This review is an interesting bid for publicity, and I don't have a problem with that any longer. Thank you for rectifying my opinion on its validity. My biggest concern is a product that doesn't meet internally set specifications, a company that seems to be gaming the crowd funding system in order to minimize their risk, and the potential to never be delivered a product because of existing patents. That's too much risk for me, given the demonstrated minimal increase in performance.

Thanks for a well structured review. I'm still not sold on the product. I don't think the company selling this is on the level, and I don't believe that is an acceptable risk.

 

[Hellfire]

Hold up, you stated a for sale price of $99 but this isn't right. They listed that as their price for distribution or wholesale. Not retail so add on 50-100%

Also, do you know if this is an Established company. All their products look like prototypes without a single production model shown

 

[the54thvoid]

Regarding patents, CoolClouds as a company has been making electronics coolers with this technology for years. They make custom cooling solutions for servers, communications hardware, military applications, etc. I had the chance to see some of their stuff when I toured the office. You can also see examples of some of their business coolers at http://www.coolclouds.net/ Their implementation does have patents behind it, but you would have to ask them about that.

Can you show an example? All I can find out is they are a Georgia Tech Venturelab Incubation company, funded by Georgia Research Alliance. And as far as I can tell, they have no products out in the market at the moment, even though there are vague inferences that they make products for military, server, telecoms etc - they seem a bit shy about naming partners.

https://www.facebook.com/CoolCloudsInc/info

In one presentation they also seem to allude to using micro-channels, which I'm pretty sure all the WC products use. Are these guys aware of other companies like EK, Swiftech, Koolance, Watercool etc?

All I see here is an integrated pump/radiator combo that exists already in other guises. They may have patents but if they're from the USPTO we know they're worth poo. USPTO give patents for things already invented.

I wish all luck to Coolclouds but they seem a bit naive, especially with the Indiegogo custom PC they're flogging. They remind me of my brother who works for a nefarious small company designing communication and PCB systems for Raytheon (EU). He's a clever guy my brother but hell, when it comes to PC tech, he's in the dark these days - I'm the PC specialist in the family and I work in a gym!

 

[TheHobbyist]

Thanks for the replies TheHobbyist.

You'll have to excuse my anger, but your lack of replies seemed to imply less than honest intentions. For that assumption, I must apologize.



I'm ambivalent about this project, though you have addressed my concerns to this point. My remaining concerns, in order of their relevance:
1) Testing a non-production model generally shouldn't be an acceptable solution. A custom produced product more often than not doesn't yield the same results (read: UL certification procedures...).
2) Kickstarter/Indiegogo/other crowd funding sites are designed for small teams to produce new products. If the people you are talking about have an established company, a good product, manufacturing facilities, and a patent trail why in hades do they need my money? This is where a respectable business would get a loan, so that they owned their product, and could determine everything about it. I don't trust "respectable" businesses that go out and get funding like this. They are trying to underwrite development cost, which I find an unacceptable practice.
3) Engineering. If you specify 1500g, but the test model is 900g, then you're either producing a failed test unit or you've got some crappy engineers. Neither point instills a ton of confidence in me. Even supposing the 1500g is a maximum, specifying a cooler weight without the fans should take precedence if the unit is sold without fans. When the weight is this high you need to tell people what to expect, rather than giving a ball park figure.
4) Nominal performance gains are the only benefit to this product. These people want me to buy another new cooler, so they've got to sell it to me. The price to performance is the only reasonable part of this equation. I have to wait for delivery, I don't have an appreciable warranty, I don't know what product I'm actually going to be getting (CG models don't match test unit, so which do you trust), and I don't even know if I'll be getting the product in a timely fashion (how many products have you received on time?).
5) Patents. There are no longer applicable patents in the USA on fluid pumps, basic radiators, or blocks. You could buy these components without having to pay a patent royalty, no matter who produced them. On the other hand, Asetech patent trolled hard by saying that other people using their pump/block with attached radiator was a patent protected product. If you've kept up on the news of the last year, you'd know that Swiftech pulled their AIO solutions from the market so they didn't have to face Asetech in patent court. Any clever lawyer could argue that this product is the same thing. The only reason that this company has been shielded in the past is their obviously limited share of a niche market. Once you release this thing to compete with the H80i and its ilk (because Asetech produces basically all of the AIO solutions) you'll experience actual scrutiny. I'd be angry if an injunction prevented my cooler from being made, despite me paying for it well in advance.

6) This is a niggling doubt, but it needs to be addressed. The cooler dimensions are bass-ackward. It's basically going to have a huge cooler, and a substantial weight. If you read the fine print on other big coolers, they recommend that you don't mount them on a vertically oriented board. Call me a cynic, but having difficulty finding a case deep enough for a big cooler is a pain. Finding one with a horizontal mount is even more of a pain. having the heavy bit detachable, as in connected by tube, makes mounting easier. Why you would give up that flexibility is a mystery.



I'll stick with my guns here. This review is an interesting bid for publicity, and I don't have a problem with that any longer. Thank you for rectifying my opinion on its validity. My biggest concern is a product that doesn't meet internally set specifications, a company that seems to be gaming the crowd funding system in order to minimize their risk, and the potential to never be delivered a product because of existing patents. That's too much risk for me, given the demonstrated minimal increase in performance.

Thanks for a well structured review. I'm still not sold on the product. I don't think the company selling this is on the level, and I don't believe that is an acceptable risk.

1) I'm with you. As an enthusiast, I would like to see the production model tested. However, I still liked the sneak peek at this tech and when they announced it months ago I wondered just how well it could perform. This was cool for a preview.
2) I just tested the prototype for enthusiasts, I don't know much about this industry either. I think they answered that question in the Overclock.net "Welcome CoolClouds the new sponsor" a few months ago but I don't recall the answer given.
3) In their defense, looking at their typical custom units for businesses, I think they usually work with different design limitations than consumer pc. I may have misunderstood them, but I don't know.
4) I think the price is comparable to other "premium" coolers and with the fans it's a good value as well. It does come with a 2 year warranty (the production unit, which I did not review). I prefer to see the real deal as well, not CG =)
5) Yeah, the AIO patent thing is a hot mess. (And patents in general it would seem!) I did bring the same issue to their attention when I toured the office and met with them, and they seemed confident about it and they knew the asetek patents. Best of luck to them!
6) To each their own! If the weight issue is addressed, I'd prefer the motherboard mount. I think a lot of us enthusiasts have been slowly brainwashed to accept and even prefer the separate radiators. From my experience, if the cooler is 160mm or under, they fit in most cases (due to the deepness needed to fit an ATX PSU and a 120mm exhaust fan and the motherboard I/O panel.

Concerns noted! I just like to see new tech at the consumer level. I wish them the best of luck and I hope they surprise everyone and come out with a performance monster =)

Regardless of what takes place with the production model, this was my experience with the prototype, and that is all =)

Cheers!

Hold up, you stated a for sale price of $99 but this isn't right. They listed that as their price for distribution or wholesale. Not retail so add on 50-100%

Also, do you know if this is an Established company. All their products look like prototypes without a single production model shown

Hello Hellfire! Looking at the IndieGoGo they have going, I see the early bird special for a single cooler at 99$. That's to buy 1 cooler directly.

I visited their offices and met the team and saw quite a few of their coolers. I think some examples can be seen on their website http://www.coolclouds.net/ under "Business Products" in the menu. I do know for a fact though that most of their business customers have them under NDA (Non-Disclosure-Agreement) so I don't think they can show everything.

Can you show an example? All I can find out is they are a Georgia Tech Venturelab Incubation company, funded by Georgia Research Alliance. And as far as I can tell, they have no products out in the market at the moment, even though there are vague inferences that they make products for military, server, telecoms etc - they seem a bit shy about naming partners.

https://www.facebook.com/CoolCloudsInc/info

In one presentation they also seem to allude to using micro-channels, which I'm pretty sure all the WC products use. Are these guys aware of other companies like EK, Swiftech, Koolance, Watercool etc?

All I see here is an integrated pump/radiator combo that exists already in other guises. They may have patents but if they're from the USPTO we know they're worth poo. USPTO give patents for things already invented.

I wish all luck to Coolclouds but they seem a bit naive, especially with the Indiegogo custom PC they're flogging. They remind me of my brother who works for a nefarious small company designing communication and PCB systems for Raytheon (EU). He's a clever guy my brother but hell, when it comes to PC tech, he's in the dark these days - I'm the PC specialist in the family and I work in a gym!

Hello the54thvoid! Besides the ones under "business products," I don't think there are any they can show you. Like I was saying to Hellfire, most of their jobs are under NDA, so I'm not surprised they are shy to talk about their partners =)

Regarding the microchannels, I think (much like the radiators themselves) there is a lot of room for optimization in a water block design and there is room for designs that are unique and better performing than the competition. If they weren't aware of those companies before I met them, they are now. I told them all about them when I talked to them.

I'm no expert on patents, so I defer to you. I just know patents seems like a hot mess right now =) Lawyer fodder to the max.

I think the custom PC on the IndieGoGo looks like a pretty great system with a lot of great components, and it looks like they took a lot of my recommendations for parts =) What do you think is off about the custom PC?

Cheers!

 

[OneMoar]

no just no their is way to much wrong here and no ware near enough "innovation"
1. weight frankly I don't care how massive the back plate is its to heavy this Frankenstein's monster will bend break? even the best mother boards unless you aren't using a tower

2. this idea has been tried a bunch of times, doesn't work PERIOD sorry game over a quick Google could have told them that

3. the performance is poop(relative to cost) and it will likely get worse of they switch to a non-all copper build witch they would need to if they where to have any hope of getting the weight reasonable

this is basically a heater core with a pump strapped to it and some garage level soldering work infact I could build this with ~50.00 worth of material from amazon/ace hardware
why was this thread even reopened

 

[Hellfire]

Hello Hellfire! Looking at the IndieGoGo they have going, I see the early bird special for a single cooler at 99$. That's to buy 1 cooler directly.

Yes... if that is the case then there is a BIG problem with their pricing scheme as if they're selling the "Distributor Pack"

"Receive 50 SuprCool V14 heatsinks at the early supporter price of $99 each. Become one of the first distributors/retailers of the revolutionary CoolClouds CPU cooling technology in the world! "

Okay so a distributor needs to make money right? so they can't sell these for $99.00 but then they're also selling retail to consumers at $99.00..... so there is a BIG problem here. they're either ripping the distributors off by selling wholesale at retail prices or their selling retail at wholesale prices which means no distributors in the world will touch them.

I visited their offices and met the team and saw quite a few of their coolers. I think some examples can be seen on their website http://www.coolclouds.net/ under "Business Products" in the menu. I do know for a fact though that most of their business customers have them under NDA (Non-Disclosure-Agreement) so I don't think they can show everything.

Regardless if their business customers have them under NDA that does not stop the advertisement of their products, it justs means they can not NAME the client. the products are not special or classified.

It is clear this company have not got a SINGLE production unit as there is not ONE product detailed on their website which I believe is in production,

Excuse me if I am wrong but it clearly looks like a failed start up company with a ton of prototypes but no production model, if this was an "Established business" as you say, then why do they need backing via IndieGoGo.

NDA's do not stop you from promoting the products you sell AND under business products on their website, not one of those looks like it is in production, it looks like a bunch of (excuse my language) handmade prototype crap, I mean look at the "Games Console Cooler". There is no way that that is in any games console I have seen....it looks like... (excuse my language) crap

http://www.coolclouds.net/our-products/games-consoles/

 

[LAN_deRf_HA]

I just find it intriguing that we may finally see a cooler that comes with GTs. Especially after scythe pulled the plug from their end.

 

[eidairaman1]

GTs???

 

[TheHobbyist]

no just no their is way to much wrong here and no ware near enough "innovation"
1. weight frankly I don't care how massive the back plate is its to heavy this Frankenstein's monster will bend break? even the best mother boards unless you aren't using a tower

2. this idea has been tried a bunch of times, doesn't work PERIOD sorry game over a quick Google could have told them that

3. the performance is poop(relative to cost) and it will likely get worse of they switch to a non-all copper build witch they would need to if they where to have any hope of getting the weight reasonable

this is basically a heater core with a pump strapped to it and some garage level soldering work infact I could build this with ~50.00 worth of material from amazon/ace hardware
why was this thread even reopened

Hello OneMoar!

1) I weighed the prototype in the review and it turns out its about 900g with 2 fans on it. For reference that's the same as the Noctua NH-D14 that is also in the test. In your opinion, is it dangerous to use a Noctua NH-D14 in a tower?
2) I was invited to tour the office, meet the team, and see their other coolers. I think they were just adapting the tech that they use for their business coolers to a desktop. The idea is working well for them in their other designs.
3) This is a prototype that is not for sale and won't be for sale. As such, it doesn't have a price. The cooler from CoolClouds that some people have mentioned is the one I described in the "Future" section at the end of the review. I didn't test that unit so I don't know its performance, but it is $99 on that site. If it performs as well as the prototype, I don't think that price is too out of line, do you? The weight: I hope it's a typo =)

As for the last part of your message... really?

Yes... if that is the case then there is a BIG problem with their pricing scheme as if they're selling the "Distributor Pack"

"Receive 50 SuprCool V14 heatsinks at the early supporter price of $99 each. Become one of the first distributors/retailers of the revolutionary CoolClouds CPU cooling technology in the world! "

Okay so a distributor needs to make money right? so they can't sell these for $99.00 but then they're also selling retail to consumers at $99.00..... so there is a BIG problem here. they're either ripping the distributors off by selling wholesale at retail prices or their selling retail at wholesale prices which means no distributors in the world will touch them.



Regardless if their business customers have them under NDA that does not stop the advertisement of their products, it justs means they can not NAME the client. the products are not special or classified.

It is clear this company have not got a SINGLE production unit as there is not ONE product detailed on their website which I believe is in production,

Excuse me if I am wrong but it clearly looks like a failed start up company with a ton of prototypes but no production model, if this was an "Established business" as you say, then why do they need backing via IndieGoGo.

NDA's do not stop you from promoting the products you sell AND under business products on their website, not one of those looks like it is in production, it looks like a bunch of (excuse my language) handmade prototype crap, I mean look at the "Games Console Cooler". There is no way that that is in any games console I have seen....it looks like... (excuse my language) crap

http://www.coolclouds.net/our-products/games-consoles/

Hellfire! =)

Yeah, all that seems pretty confusing. It looks like there are a limited number of units available at $99 bucks though. Looking at it, even at the next price point there is a limited number. I think once the units were sold out, the retailer could charge whatever they wanted for it. Anyway, I don't know and I tested and wrote a review of a prototype, not the SuprCool V14.

I also don't know much about NDA's, so I defer to your knowledge on that one. About having units in production: I'm pretty sure their typical client requests the design of a prototype, and then based on the results, licenses the design from them to produce on their own. Again, not something I know much about and a far cry away from the topic of my prototype review =)

I just find it intriguing that we may finally see a cooler that comes with GTs. Especially after scythe pulled the plug from their end.

I would like to actually take the credit for that! =) I have used Gentle Typhoons for probably a decade on radiators. I even busted out some AP-15's for this test =) When I told the team about the fans and how well they perform while still being quiet, they were impressed. I told em "too bad, you can't get em in the US anymore" =) But, I thought it would be cool to see them available again so I strolled into the Nidec-Servo office here in Northern California and connected them with CoolClouds! Huzza!

Go Go Gentle Typhoon!

 

[TheHobbyist]

GTs???

He is referring to the Gentle Typhoon fans that the V14 says it comes with. I used a pair of Gentle Typhoon AP-15 fans in my testing of a CoolClouds prototype unit. If you haven't heard of them before, They are considered by most enthusiasts to be the best radiator fans for water cooling. (Best in the sense of performance/silence) Of course if you like the sound of leaf blowers, a good Delta fan at 10,000 rpm will outperform it for sure! Hahahaha!

 

[lilhasselhoffer]

NDAs are...tricky.

In this instance, hiding behind NDAs for their products is absolute crap. They blatantly state they are "in serious talks" with some substantial hitting companies. This is weasel speak, for those who need translation, for they have no customers. If they had customers the phrasing would be "we have partnered with." Their inclusion of executives with "industry experience" reeks of carefully constructed wording, and they need to be called to task on their claims.

End game here, so this discussion can come to a painful close.
1) Product tested is interesting, but bears little to no resemblance to what the company will actually put out.
2) Company has no clients, no products on the market, and no appreciable innovation behind their products.
3) By extension of point 2, the company hasn't got the financial resources to fight a patent dispute. They do not own the patents related to integrated cooling loops, because they aren't Asetech. Vis-a-vis, the likely legal action will evaporate this company faster the liquid nitrogen on the sun.
4) The company producing these units has no grasp on money. $99 for a single unit and $2599 for a computer that relies on Intel integrated graphics (another $200+ for some mid-level GPUs) are some bizarre pricing schemes.
5) The company has no customers, so the warranty offered has zero weight, and is unlikely to ever be useable.

6) Middling performance gains. There's no easy way to say it, 2-5% performance gains (as indicated) are a joke. If they weren't people wouldn't still happily be using Sandy Bridge CPUs. If the core of your system can't be bothered for an upgrade at that performance boost why would you buy a new cooler at the same performance improvement vs. price point ratio?
7) Ambitious project timelines. They've cited five locations, and five manufacturers for the components. Assuming shipping works well, the designs are flawlessly executed by the manufacturers, and customs somehow expedites these things their 1 month delivery window is achievable. In the real world their timeline is bogus. Manufacturing doesn't work like this for small time runs. Unless you're making your own parts you can expect at least 40% of your plans to fail. These people haven't built that kind of time into the delivery schedule.
8) Wrong market. The cited products they have "worked on" run crazy hot. That's fine if you're looking at densely packed servers, but it doesn't fly with gaming PCs. These people seem to think that thermal management for a server directly transfers into PC thermal management, but somehow skipped out of the basic engineering courses that would tell them overclocking gamers aren't going to demand the same thing as an IT manager maximizing floor space.
9) Stupid sales pitch. Directly quoted from the promotional video; "...that opens the door to 16 GHz, or even maybe even 32 GHz of processing power. We're not talking the next generation of processors, we're talking about the one after that." These guys are morons. If we were still following Moore's law, this might be possible. For silicon, it is not. Being able to keep a CPU at 90C with 550 watt TDPs is useless to the consumer market. Again, they're trying to improperly sell server hardware.
10) Micro-channels are black magic. My god they must think people are stupid. There are only three ways to conduct heat, and radiation isn't possible in tight spaces. Convection in a directional flow loop is functionally zero. This means the heat is transferred by conduction. Conduction is a function of materials and surface areas, so they use copper and very high surface area baffles. Where you start to lose the race is that pipe friction losses increase as pipe cross sectional area decreases, thus you have to use a more powerful pump to maintain flow. A corrolary to this argument is that surface tension will happily move water through very narrow channels. So, the grand "secret" of how this stuff works is that between pump static pressure, and aquatic properties, the design allows a large surface area to contact the warm fluid.

11) Crowdfunding isn't a business loan that you don't have to pay back. The people attached to this project have tons of money, and thus should not be turning to indigogo or kickstarter to absorb their R&D costs/market entry fee.



If you can't trust the people who manufacture the goods there's no reason to accept the risks of these people, while paying for it.

 

[GreiverBlade]

ok perfect, my point is confirmed:

99$? pfah ... even if it beats a H80i by 1°, not worth it. innovation? not really, gain of place needed? absolutely not: this thing take more place than a standard AIO (already said), you said one of the pro was the fact that you don't loose the back exhaust fan.... think again ... a AIO rad doesn't make you lose that exhaust ... but the SuprCool V14 advantage become a hindrance : the exhaust of the rad is in the case, opposed to out of the case, as with a H80i or any other AIO, adding to the global heat of the inside (ofc a tower HSF do same but not AIO)

that one was innovative and looked way better (yet it disappeared... i wonder why ... /Sarcasm ), well ok it's a prototype the one you have, but i see it covered with copper oxide ... even the Chinese "copper" radiator or any other bare copper part you see in a computer HSF are not like that ... this is a Prototype, it doesn't mean it has to be rubbish.

also your idea of the AIO disruption of the case airflow is ... wrong (get a better case if you want a better airflow for other components.)

as you can see (ok it's a H60v2 not a H80i) that thing could not fit in my rig and yet i have no hindrance around my CPU socket. that case is around 50$ place for 2 120mm on top 2 140mm on front and 1 120mm on back, but my graphic card is a EE reference type (External exhaust sorry ... ) even with a internal exhaust model my temps would not take a huge hit. (i run my H60v2 with a Cooler Master JetFlo 120 instead of the AP120 you see on that pics)

NDAs are...tricky.

snip

If you can't trust the people who manufacture the goods there's no reason to accept the risks of these people, while paying for it.

all is said (including the cut off)

also : a crowfunding method for a HSF ...: no, for other things like, Occulus VR, Ouya, Leap Motion or something really revolutionary and interesting : yes
they develop professional and military use HSF? by the look of it ... i highly doubt it and:

Indiegogo prove that people aren't stupid enough to trust them
"$234USD
RAISED OF $100,000 GOAL

0%
21 days left
This campaign started on Jun 16 and will close on August 15, 2014 (11:59pm PT)."

well the "team" sure has some head in it ...

lastly, anybody can build that PC for way less than 2500$ including a real GPU and not a IGP

 

[de.das.dude]

How can it be 47C over ambient? that would be like 90C over here!

 

[OneMoar]

the problem here is that the core concept and logic are flawed and frankly I think TheHobbyist is a whole lot closer to this then he lets on

NDAs are...tricky.

In this instance, hiding behind NDAs for their products is absolute crap. They blatantly state they are "in serious talks" with some substantial hitting companies. This is weasel speak, for those who need translation, for they have no customers.

If they had customers the phrasing would be "we have partnered with." Their inclusion of executives with "industry experience" reeks of carefully constructed wording, and they need to be called to task on their claims.

End game here, so this discussion can come to a painful close.
1) Product tested is interesting, but bears little to no resemblance to what the company will actually put out.

2) Company has no clients, no products on the market, and no appreciable innovation behind their products.

3) By extension of point 2, the company hasn't got the financial resources to fight a patent dispute. They do not own the patents related to integrated cooling loops, because they aren't Asetech. Vis-a-vis, the likely legal action will evaporate this company faster the liquid nitrogen on the sun.

4) The company producing these units has no grasp on money. $99 for a single unit and $2599 for a computer that relies on Intel integrated graphics (another $200+ for some mid-level GPUs) are some bizarre pricing schemes.

5) The company has no customers, so the warranty offered has zero weight, and is unlikely to ever be usable.

6) Middling performance gains. There's no easy way to say it, 2-5% performance gains (as indicated) are a joke. If they weren't people wouldn't still happily be using Sandy Bridge CPUs. If the core of your system can't be bothered for an upgrade at that performance boost why would you buy a new cooler at the same performance improvement vs. price point ratio?

7) Ambitious project timelines. They've cited five locations, and five manufacturers for the components. Assuming shipping works well, the designs are flawlessly executed by the manufacturers, and customs somehow expedites these things their 1 month delivery window is achievable. In the real world their timeline is bogus. Manufacturing doesn't work like this for small time runs. Unless you're making your own parts you can expect at least 40% of your plans to fail. These people haven't built that kind of time into the delivery schedule.

8) Wrong market. The cited products they have "worked on" run crazy hot. That's fine if you're looking at densely packed servers, but it doesn't fly with gaming PCs. These people seem to think that thermal management for a server directly transfers into PC thermal management, but somehow skipped out of the basic engineering courses that would tell them overclocking gamers aren't going to demand the same thing as an IT manager maximizing floor space.

9) Stupid sales pitch. Directly quoted from the promotional video; "...that opens the door to 16 GHz, or even maybe even 32 GHz of processing power. We're not talking the next generation of processors, we're talking about the one after that." These guys are morons. If we were still following Moore's law, this might be possible. For silicon, it is not. Being able to keep a CPU at 90C with 550 watt TDPs is useless to the consumer market. Again, they're trying to improperly sell server hardware.

10) Micro-channels are black magic. My god they must think people are stupid. There are only three ways to conduct heat, and radiation isn't possible in tight spaces. Convection in a directional flow loop is functionally zero. This means the heat is transferred by conduction. Conduction is a function of materials and surface areas, so they use copper and very high surface area baffles. Where you start to lose the race is that pipe friction losses increase as pipe cross sectional area decreases, thus you have to use a more powerful pump to maintain flow. A corrolary to this argument is that surface tension will happily move water through very narrow channels. So, the grand "secret" of how this stuff works is that between pump static pressure, and aquatic properties, the design allows a large surface area to contact the warm fluid.

11) Crowdfunding isn't a business loan that you don't have to pay back. The people attached to this project have tons of money, and thus should not be turning to indigogo or kickstarter to absorb their R&D costs/market entry fee.



If you can't trust the people who manufacture the goods there's no reason to accept the risks of these people, while paying for it.

+1 on everything he said concept has been done to death by various vendors over the years and it just doesn't work for the following reasion
1. weight
2. cost
3. performance
4. usability

 

[eidairaman1]

I know of the Deltas, had a 60mm in the day and it could keep you awake at night.

He is referring to the Gentle Typhoon fans that the V14 says it comes with. I used a pair of Gentle Typhoon AP-15 fans in my testing of a CoolClouds prototype unit. If you haven't heard of them before, They are considered by most enthusiasts to be the best radiator fans for water cooling. (Best in the sense of performance/silence) Of course if you like the sound of leaf blowers, a good Delta fan at 10,000 rpm will outperform it for sure! Hahahaha!