Atari is working on its first console in more than 20 years

[Frag_Maniac]

How is that exactly? Their E3 presentation was all flash and no bang. Not impressive. However, Sony and Nintendo showed actual impressive games.

You're talking games, I'm talking specifically the system. We all know the game library matters too, but quite honestly, that's always personal preference.

And if you believe that nonsense, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn I want to sell you... Those are very generous theoretical numbers.

The hardware specs are always taken straight from the manufacturer. Generally AMD are as diligent as Nvidia or Intel at reporting them accurately. 6 TFLOPS is equivalent to a 980 Ti, and prices on them before the bit mining caused prices to go up got as low as $400. You factor in that AMD charges less than Nvidia, and that these are mass produced APUs for consoles, which typically are sold at a small loss to get customers, and it's plenty feasible that such graphics power would be put in a console that they've already said will cost $500.

Are you sure? PS4Pro does in fact have similar specs that are, by very definition, close.

This is where you are seriously out of the loop.

1. The One X APU is 2.3Ghz x86, the PS4 Pro is 2.1GHz Jaguar
2. The One X APU is 6 TFLOPs capable, the PS4 Pro only 4.2
3. The One X has 12GB GDDR5, the PS4 Pro only 8GB
4. The One X has a 4K/HDR Blu-ray drive, the PS4 Pro a 1080p Blu-ray/DVD

Just one of many sources on this: https://www.cnet.com/news/xbox-one-x-vs-ps4-pro/

That is $100 well spent in my opinion. Some are implying the added $100 price point will mean most won't buy it, but I disagree. There are tons of kids now considering dabbling into PC gaming that would spend their money better on a $500 One X.

Now that is an excellent point...

They've all been good points, you just aren't up to speed enough on the subject to recognize it.

you forget one critical thing, trust. Microsoft has lost the trust of the public. They are losing their audience in a very serious way. Sony, Nintendo, Google and Apple are where people are going because those companies are far more trustworthy.

They have gained back most of the trust they lost at the launch of Xone when they fired Mattrick and put Spencer in charge. They're much better at listening to what gamers want in a console system now, better than Sony in fact. This is really the first time a console manufacturer has offered spec on par with mid to high end PCs, and KB/M support as well. The only thing that remains to be seen is how extensive the KB/M support is.

I'm not going to water this down to game libraries though. I mean hell, Nintendo has big sales, but they're still clinging to a library of games that is mostly ancient rehashed titles. Serious gamers don't play kiddie games.

 

[lexluthermiester]

You're talking games, I'm talking specifically the system. We all know the game library matters too, but quite honestly, that's always personal preference.

True

The hardware specs are always taken straight from the manufacturer. Generally AMD are as diligent as Nvidia or Intel at reporting them accurately.

Except that AMD is not making the claims. Microsoft is, and they are well known for fudging numbers and out-right lying for marketing advantage. Given the known capabilities of existing AMD APU's, 6TFLOP's seems a dubious claim. 4.6 TFLOP's is a more realistic number, again based on known facts.

6 TFLOPS is equivalent to a 980 Ti

The GTX 980ti running at Nvidia spec clock is a 5.4 TFLOP part. Increasing clock speed will increase that number.

This is where you are seriously out of the loop.

Ok let's do this.

1. The One X APU is 2.3Ghz x86, the PS4 Pro is 2.1GHz Jaguar

That is .2GHz. If it were .1 would that be a small enough difference to be "close" to you?

2. The One X APU is 6 TFLOPs capable, the PS4 Pro only 4.2

Until someone independently proves this number, I'm going with a more technologically reasonable 4.8TFLOP's and vs 4.2, that reasonably close.

3. The One X has 12GB GDDR5, the PS4 Pro only 8GB

You're right on that one, it's 50% more and at a faster speed. But it's still in the ball-park.

4. The One X has a 4K/HDR Blu-ray drive, the PS4 Pro a 1080p Blu-ray/DVD

You conveniently left out that PS4Pro does 4k very easily and that Sony feels that most users will be streaming 4k content rather than using BD4k discs. That was a weak point to attempt.
Let's add a few more stats shall we?
5. Scorpio has 40 compute units where-as PS4Pro has 36. I call that close.
6. Those compute units run at 1172MHz vs 911MHz respectively. Again, that is in the ball-park.

They have gained back most of the trust they lost at the launch of Xone when they fired Mattrick and put Spencer in charge. They're much better at listening to what gamers want in a console system now, better than Sony in fact.

You assume the mistrust is related to who's in charge. That is only one smaller aspect of the total problem. The greater part of the problem is that Microsoft keeps violating the general privacy and digital security of the public without regard to the long term ramifications of their actions. And they keep lying about how much data they are collecting. So yeah, not trustworthy. And an ever increasing number of people are realizing this.

This is really the first time a console manufacturer has offered spec on par with mid to high end PCs, and KB/M support as well. The only thing that remains to be seen is how extensive the KB/M support is.

Mid to High end? No. The Mid-range suggestion is reasonable as is the point of the Keyboard and Mouse support. Make no mistake, good choices are being made with the system and it's going to be an improvement.

I'm not going to water this down to game libraries though. I mean hell, Nintendo has big sales, but they're still clinging to a library of games that is mostly ancient rehashed titles.

Um, ok. Everyone is doing that to varying degrees of success. However, Nintendo is a lot better at it. They're also making a lot of really creative, original titles and they're not alone.

Serious gamers don't play kiddie games.

What a subjective statement. "Serious" gamers play games they enjoy, regardless of genre. Perhaps the word you were looking for was "professional"?

 

[Melvis]

My first gaming console was the Atari 800XL which I still have and then moved to the Atari 2600 which I also still have, those was the days of red square vs green square lol

 

[Frag_Maniac]

Except that AMD is not making the claims. Microsoft is, and they are well known for fudging numbers and out-right lying for marketing advantage. Given the known capabilities of existing AMD APU's, 6TFLOP's seems a dubious claim. 4.6 TFLOP's is a more realistic number, again based on known facts.

Again, it's not just MS' claims like you make it sound, it's "spec" that AMD divulges to Ms. TPU's own page on even the stock clocked Nvidia reference 980 Ti shows it having 6060 GFLOPS, which converts to 6.06 TFLOPS. https://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/2724/geforce-gtx-980-ti So I guess you're calling TPU liars too?

And no, the PS4 Pro can't actually play 4k content without an actual 4k player. It can only upconvert, which is not at all the same.

And Spencer replacing Mattrick DID make a huge difference, mostly via lifting the many restrictions and backward compatibility (the latter of which Sony sucks at by comparison). The One X in fact will soon be adding original Xbox to backward compatibility, so I guess that smashes your library talk, since you don't mind rehashed titles. You seem to be oblivious that people in such positions have a certain amount of freedom to call the shots, so just replacing one with another whom has a different vision for the franchise can make a huge difference.

I also find it odd you point the finger at MS' regarding customer security, when it's PSN that has had two major hacks in recent years. The first of which came with the discovery they weren't even encrypting their customer's personal info. The second of which showed how little they did to prevent another one, despite it becoming public knowledge that they'd put customer's personal info at risk when the first hack happened.

Yeah Nintendo need to be and better be better at rehashing, because it's mostly all they do as far as their own content. Most gamers outgrow that and move on to more real world titles. That's what I meant by "kiddies". Nintendo has always catered mostly to younger players that can't afford decent systems. If they take that as an insult, they'll probably eventually understand it's not. With the exception of the few that still live with their parents into their 30s and play cartoon games until they die. Ah, but to each their own I guess. You call it "fun", I call it sad.

 

[WhiteNoise]

I think Frag and Lex are in the wrong thread.

 

[FreedomEclipse]

They should make a guitar hero knock off and call it 'Guitari'

 

[lexluthermiester]

Again, it's not just MS' claims like you make it sound, it's "spec" that AMD divulges to Ms. TPU's own page on even the stock clocked Nvidia reference 980 Ti shows it having 6060 GFLOPS, which converts to 6.06 TFLOPS. https://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/2724/geforce-gtx-980-ti So I guess you're calling TPU liars too?

That is a calculated number based on estimations of performance. It's not a lie, it's a misunderstanding. Other sites use actual measured numbers. https://www.vrfocus.com/2016/05/nvidia-geforce-gtx-1080-1070-980-ti-980-970-comparison-guide/

And no, the PS4 Pro can't actually play 4k content without an actual 4k player. It can only upconvert, which is not at all the same.

I have personally watched 4k content on the PS4Pro. When you hop on Youtube, for example, and select 4k as the output, it displays in 4k. https://www.playstation.com/en-nz/g...on-video/ps4-pro-viewing-youtube-video-in-4k/ TADA! Need help getting that foot out of your mouth? Perhaps a crowbar is in order?

And Spencer replacing Mattrick DID make a huge difference, mostly via lifting the many restrictions and backward compatibility (the latter of which Sony sucks at by comparison). The One X in fact will soon be adding original Xbox to backward compatibility, so I guess that smashes your library talk, since you don't mind rehashed titles. You seem to be oblivious that people in such positions have a certain amount of freedom to call the shots, so just replacing one with another whom has a different vision for the franchise can make a huge difference.

I also find it odd you point the finger at MS' regarding customer security, when it's PSN that has had two major hacks in recent years. The first of which came with the discovery they weren't even encrypting their customer's personal info. The second of which showed how little they did to prevent another one, despite it becoming public knowledge that they'd put customer's personal info at risk when the first hack happened.

Yeah Nintendo need to be and better be better at rehashing, because it's mostly all they do as far as their own content. Most gamers outgrow that and move on to more real world titles. That's what I meant by "kiddies". Nintendo has always catered mostly to younger players that can't afford decent systems. If they take that as an insult, they'll probably eventually understand it's not. With the exception of the few that still live with their parents into their 30s and play cartoon games until they die. Ah, but to each their own I guess. You call it "fun", I call it sad.

Really? Perhaps you have a problem with contextual comprehension? All you're saying with those statements is; "Hi. I'm a hardcore fanboy with no objectivity and I have to win this argument!".

I think Frag and Lex are in the wrong thread.

Yeah, you're right, we've derailed this thread. So I'm out.

Although, on topic, the AtariBox looks kinda cool. If they do Jaguar titles, that would be really interesting.

 

[AsRock]

No lol, Jaguar games sucked more than the Atari game of ET did.

 

[natr0n]

Pong Ultimate HD Remix. Black and white will be inverted.

 

[lexluthermiester]

No lol, Jaguar games sucked more than the Atari game of ET did.

Not all of them sucked. Some of them were a ton of fun!
What would be even more interesting, is if they did Arcade, 2600, 5200, 7800, Lynx and Jag+JagCD titles. Kind of an Atari historical thing.

 

[natr0n]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_vs_Predator_(Jaguar_game)

Be grateful.

 

[Frag_Maniac]

That is a calculated number based on estimations of performance. It's not a lie, it's a misunderstanding. Other sites use actual measured numbers. https://www.vrfocus.com/2016/05/nvidia-geforce-gtx-1080-1070-980-ti-980-970-comparison-guide

And what you fail to understand is the same applies with the PS4 Pro, thus it's still 1.8 TFLOPS behind. You're going by nothing but sites that claim real world specs. You don't even acknowledge that many devs, whom know full well what kind of hardware is required for 4k, have already said the One X is more suited to 4k than the PS4 Pro.

I have personally watched 4k content on the PS4Pro. When you hop on Youtube, for example, and select 4k as the output, it displays in 4k. https://www.playstation.com/en-nz/g...on-video/ps4-pro-viewing-youtube-video-in-4k/ TADA! Need help getting that foot out of your mouth? Perhaps a crowbar is in order?

LOL, foot in MY mouth? Even Sony's own spec admits it's not a true 4k player. What you don't get is you can't go by YouTube's player. There are ways to trick YouTube into using higher bit rate. Just by outputting a 1080p capture to 2048x1152, you can make it look better than a 1080p upload. And just because the player plays a vid at 4k doesn't mean it hasn't been doctored by upscaling. I imagine your eyes aren't even good enough to tell the difference between true 4k and upscaled 4k, given what you've said.

Really? Perhaps you have a problem with contextual comprehension? All you're saying with those statements is; "Hi. I'm a hardcore fanboy with no objectivity and I have to win this argument!".

Odd of you to say since none of what you said there addresses the topic, and is obviously more fanboyish than anything I said. You don't win an argument by just implying MS is evil, and Sony isn't, without giving any reasons whatsoever. MS lifting their restrictions first revealed at initial launch on One, and working hard on backward compatibility doesn't just happen out of the blue, they are decisions made by actual people that head Xbox. If anyone's acting like a dense, biased fanboy, it's you.

Yeah, you're right, we've derailed this thread. So I'm out.

LOL, no, that was you overreacting to my saying MS is the only one putting up a decent console with One X. You were the one that wanted to turn it into a MS vs every other console pissing contest, and none of what you said had any validity. This is what happens when gamers think YouTube is the end all be all for judging video quality.

 

[Vya Domus]

Until someone independently proves this number, I'm going with a more technologically reasonable 4.8TFLOP's and vs 4.2, that reasonably close.

MS officially announced core count and clock speeds , from who do you expect proof ? It's a technical specification , here is the formula : core count x clock speed x 2 = number of FLOPS. There is no such things as a need for independent proof or "technologically reasonable ".

 

[dorsetknob]

MS officially announced core count and clock speeds , from who do you expect proof ? It's a technical specification , there is no independent proof or "technologically reasonable".

That's what they Say Your going to get
and that's what you will get as anything less than the published spec opens MS to Mr Sueyou contacting ...............
and of course MS are fully entitled to revise and change the Spec but you will still get the min of what the Spec's Specify

 

[Vya Domus]

That's what they Say Your going to get
and that's what you will get as anything less than the published spec opens MS to Mr Sueyou contacting ...............
and of course MS are fully entitled to revise and change the Spec but you will still get the min of what the Spec's Specify

They already began production and briefed developers. They even called the guy from DF to their HQ and gave him this spec , along side an actual Scorpio APU die. I doubt it will change , it's pretty much set in stone at this point.

 

[Frag_Maniac]

MS officially announced core count and clock speeds , from who do you expect proof ? It's a technical specification , here is the formula : core count x clock speed x 2 = number of FLOPS. There is no such things as a need for independent proof or "technologically reasonable ".

Exactly, the worst part of it is he puts more validity in random sites that claim the real world output is much lower, when we all know many such sites skew things to make one brand look better than another.

Anyways, sorry if we're straying from Atari talk here, but it only proves MS is cooking up something much more interesting, and I personally think it's well worth $500. I just hope the KB/M support isn't exaggerated.

 

[dorsetknob]

just chuck this here

 

[Vya Domus]

just chuck this here

??? 40*64*1172*2 = 6000640 aka 6 TFLOPS , why are you all so doubtful of this ? I don't get it.

 

[dorsetknob]

what are you all so doubtful of this ? I don't get it.

Some people just get their jollys arguing others use Porn

 

[Vya Domus]

Some people just get their jollys arguing others use Porn

why not both

 

[Frag_Maniac]

??? 40*64*1172*2 = 6000640 aka 6 TFLOPS , why are you all so doubtful of this ? I don't get it.

Everything's FLOPing MS' direction, but in a good way.

PS4 Pro, Blu-ray, too bad some don't know what that means.

No seriously, I applaud Sony for making the best 4k gaming TVs available lately (at a halfway reasonable price point anyway), but that makes it all the more curious as to why they refuse to make a console with a 4k player. I mean I know their upscaling is good, but when you pop in a 4k movie disc, you want it to actually PLAY in 4k, especially on a nice Sony TV. I guess they want you to spend another $270 on their X800 4k Blu-ray player.

 

[AsRock]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_vs_Predator_(Jaguar_game)

Be grateful.

OMG that game was bad too, both me and my brother got so bored of that and just ended up playing some thing else like Syndicate or more comparable Doom.

Years later Rebelion did a much better PC version but later tried again and just plain out right sucked ever since.

As for this XBox V's PS BS, they both suck as neither can have 4k gaming on all there games which is what they are marketed for.

 

[Frag_Maniac]

As for this XBox V's PS BS, they both suck as neither can have 4k gaming on all there games which is what they are marketed for.

Console manufacturers live in a different world than others, because you know they're talking 30 FPS. They may tell you some games run at 4k60, but they aren't promising all games will. Graphics power of 6 TFLOP capability as mentioned is same as 980 Ti, and a 980 Ti can play a lot of games at much better than 30 FPS. If you want 60 FPS and any level of future capability at 4k though, it takes more like 1080 Ti power.

However TPU's 980 Ti bench over the 21 games tested averaged 53 FPS @ 4k, and only dropped below 30 FPS on a couple games. Plus console games are not made the same as PC games. Their game world's are often smaller with less interactive objects (doors that don't open), and they don't have as high LOD, so there's more popins. This all means they can cram more 4k titles in than you could on a PC with such spec.

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_980_Ti/

You have to remember even though the One X will be better than any console made before, they're still targeting the console crowd. It will just be a better stepping stone to PC than any other alternative. Console gamers are used to low FPS and LOD, so I doubt it will bother them, especially since they're getting 4k and HDR. That's been the response of even PS4 players with upscaled to 4k games at lower FPS. No doubt the response will be even better on One X with true 4k and higher FPS. They're targeting people looking for a lower price point that don't mind some compromises.

 

[Vya Domus]

Console manufacturers live in a different world than others, because you know they're talking 30 FPS. They may tell you some games run at 4k60, but they aren't promising all games will. Graphics power of 6 TFLOP capability as mentioned is same as 980 Ti, and a 980 Ti can play a lot of games at much better than 30 FPS. If you want 60 FPS and any level of future capability at 4k though, it takes more like 1080 Ti power.

However TPU's 980 Ti bench over the 21 games tested averaged 53 FPS @ 4k, and only dropped below 30 FPS on a couple games. Plus console games are not made the same as PC games. Their game world's are often smaller with less interactive objects (doors that don't open), and they don't have as high LOD, so there's more popins. This all means they can cram more 4k titles in than you could on a PC with such spec.

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_980_Ti/

You have to remember even though the One X will be better than any console made before, they're still targeting the console crowd. It will just be a better stepping stone to PC than any other alternative. Console gamers are used to low FPS and LOD, so I doubt it will bother them, especially since they're getting 4k and HDR. That's been the response of even PS4 players with upscaled to 4k games at lower FPS. No doubt the response will be even better on One X with true 4k and higher FPS. They're targeting people looking for a lower price point that don't mind some compromises.

I didn't say that . You quoted me by mistake.

 

[Frag_Maniac]

I didn't say that . You quoted me by mistake.

Sorry, fixed it.