Bulldozer specs and pricing

[TheMailMan78]

Movies render the same it just that its prerendered over rendered realtime

My arguments are valid



Less accurate as more fluctuations exist making it less valid

Fluctuations that are really big can lead to micro-stuttering

I don't think you understand how film works. Its not about being Pre-rendered. Most movies up until recently were only 24fps. Seems much higher no? A game at 24fps would be jittery right? Well film multiples the frames giving the illusion of movement. This is why film is smooth at 24fps and games are not. So yeah your argument is null when it comes to film.

As for the frame rate you are also incorrect. See at one point in the game you could be at 100fps. The very next scene you could be at 20 fps 10 minutes later. What about the time span between? Do you just average it out between those high and lows? Or do you find the average frame per second of the entire span? Big difference.

 

[seronx]

I don't think you understand how film works. Its not about being Pre-rendered. Most movies up until recently were only 24fps. Seems much higher no? A game at 24fps would be jittery right? Well film multiples the frames giving the illusion of movement. This is why film is smooth at 24fps and games are not. So yeah your argument is null when it comes to film.

As for the frame rate you are also incorrect. See at one point in the game you could be at 100fps. The very next scene you could be at 20 fps 10 minutes later. What about the time span between? Do you just average it out between those high and lows? Or do you find the average frame per second of the entire span? Big difference.

100 and 20 fps <-- Micro-stuttering galore

Is an 80 fps fluctuation and the CPU or GPU is the bottleneck

24fps is pretty smooth if you have motion blur(Not as jittery) but it has to min out at 24fps

since most GPU can't get a min higher than 72 fps(the amount fps you don't need motion blur) you want the least fluctuations as possible

 

[TheMailMan78]

100 and 20 fps <-- Micro-stuttering galore

Is an 80 fps fluctuation and the CPU or GPU is the bottleneck

24fps is pretty smooth if you have motion blur(Not as jittery)

since most GPU can't get a min higher than 72 fps(the amount fps you don't need motion blur) you want the least fluctuations as possible

100fps to 20fps is...

A: An example.
B: Will not produce micro-shuttering if spread out which is why measuring the average frame per-second is more accurate.

Also who says you need motion blur under 72fps? Did you just make that up?

As for the movie not being a valid argument I am glad you agree.

 

[seronx]

100fps to 20fps is...

A: An example.
B: Will not produce micro-shuttering if spread out which is why measuring the average frame per-second is more accurate.

1 second = 100 Fps
1 second = 20 Fps
10 minutes = 300 times you will notice the immense jitter

Also who says you need motion blur under 72fps? Did you just make that up?

72p is a progressive format and is currently in experimental stages. Major institutions such as Snell have demonstrated 720p72 pictures as a result of earlier analogue experiments, where 768 line television at 75 FPS looked subjectively better than 1150 line 50 FPS progressive pictures with higher shutter speeds available (and a corresponding lower data rate). Modern cameras such as the Red One can use this frame rate to produce slow motion replays at 24 FPS. Douglas Trumbull, who undertook experiments with different frame rates that led to the Showscan film format, found that emotional impact peaked at 72 FPS for viewers. 72 FPS is the maximum rate available in the WMV video file format.

Movies are going to go from 24fps to 72fps
72FPS happens to not need a motion blur(Motion blur is created by the frame rate not the software, thus doesn't need Motion blur, lol so hard to explain this)

As for the movie not being a valid argument I am glad you agree.

I was talking about something else....more Youtube video than Cinema Movie

 

[bucketface]

providing a graph over time & showing min, max and avg fps is prettyuch the best way to show performance in a given game. you want to avoid large rapid fluctuations in fps while maintaining as close to 60 fps as possible at all times.

for example lets say gfx card A: min 30 max 120 with rapid frame fluctuations will give a "less smooth" experience than with gfx B: min 50 max 60. now lets just say that A gets a better avg, that doesn not mean you get a smoother experience than B. B infact appears smoother.
thats what seronx is trying to say.. i think.

Also who says you need motion blur under 72fps? Did you just make that up?

72 fps is the highest framerate the eye can detect. anything beyond that and the eye physically can not tell the difference.

not that this has anything to do with BD.

Anyways OT and I'm waiting for bulldozer with my new PC but from the hype about speculations and AMD being slow about I'm almost ready to go with i5.

if you can wait till late august then wait, if not go i5 2500k. hopefully bulldozer competes.

 

[caleb]

stutter effect is not a strict FPS issue but its more related to video source+screen type specs. Anyways OT and I'm waiting for bulldozer with my new PC but from the hype about speculations and AMD being slow about I'm almost ready to go with i5.
I don't care if its good value for Dell to make enterprise class PC's with AMD cpu's. I want pure game performance for what I pay for and from the looks of it AMD doesn't have anything better in terms of FPS/$$.

 

[de.das.dude]

stutter effect is not a strict FPS issue but its more related to video source+screen type specs. Anyways OT and I'm waiting for bulldozer with my new PC but from the hype about speculations and AMD being slow about I'm almost ready to go with i5.
I don't care if its good value for Dell to make enterprise class PC's with AMD cpu's. I want pure game performance for what I pay for and from the looks of it AMD doesn't have anything better in terms of FPS/$$.

i think i will kill myself.

 

[moonlord]

FX8150P price will be 350+ with Gigabyte 990FXA-UD7 mobo and 7XXX series this cpu will be great, i'm tired of Intel's supremacy.
http://wccftech.com/2011/06/05/amd-...tails-leaked-features-turbo-boost-upto-47ghz/

 

[seronx]

FX8150P price will be 350+ with Gigabyte 990FXA-UD7 mobo and 7XXX series this cpu will be great, i'm tired of Intel's supremacy.
http://wccftech.com/2011/06/05/amd-...tails-leaked-features-turbo-boost-upto-47ghz/

FX8150P will take the price of the FX8130P

providing a graph over time & showing min, max and avg fps is prettyuch the best way to show performance in a given game. you want to avoid large rapid fluctuations in fps while maintaining as close to 60 fps as possible at all times.

for example lets say gfx card A: min 30 max 120 with rapid frame fluctuations will give a "less smooth" experience than with gfx B: min 50 max 60. now lets just say that A gets a better avg, that doesn not mean you get a smoother experience than B. B infact appears smoother.
thats what seronx is trying to say.. i think.

Yes, I can agree to that but I have a more prominent weird story

Crysis 1 on my Pentium 4 and a 8800GTS only was able to get 9-11 min-max fps on all high

Crysis 1 on my 965BE and a GTX480 was able to get 30fps avg (14 min/60 max) and it looked a lot worse subjectively compared to the pentium this was on all ultra

72 fps is the highest framerate the eye can detect. anything beyond that and the eye physically can not tell the difference.

not that this has anything to do with BD.

Subjectively 72fps is the best

But the human eye in reality can see
about 2450000000 FPS but the problem is that our brain can't process that much frames for us, as people

if you can wait till late august then wait, if not go i5 2500k. hopefully bulldozer competes.

i5 2500k and i7 2600k is the way to go on cheap fps performance

 

[LAN_deRf_HA]

72 fps is the highest framerate the eye can detect. anything beyond that and the eye physically can not tell the difference.

I think the air force did test showing we detect into the 200 fps range. I'm not positive but I think it's a sync issue. Like maybe the display refresh rate and the refresh rate of you eyes are out of sync. I think it takes over 500hz to get you an image that looks as smooth and real as say your reflection in a mirror.

 

[seronx]

I think the air force did test showing we detect into the 200 fps range. I'm not positive but I think it's a sync issue. Like maybe the display refresh rate and the refresh rate of you eyes are out of sync. I think it takes over 500hz to get you an image that looks as smooth and real as say your reflection in a mirror.

It's more or so that our eyes have a dynamic refresh rate

when nothing is moving the refresh rate can be low but instant the brain sees something it starts pumping up that refresh rate

That is why most people can't react to a punch that is instantaneous

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIf5XvFrBFo

time the amount of ns/frames before he reacted, the reaction is when he starts to move his hands after he had a natural reflex just telling

 

[repman244]

So by the looks of this thread I can conclude that Bulldozer will be priced at 72fps

 

[seronx]

So by the looks of this thread I can conclude that Bulldozer will be priced at 72fps

Yes, if it doesn't have a price of 72fps.....

I am going intel



I am joking of course

 

[Damn_Smooth]

It's more or so that our eyes have a dynamic refresh rate

when nothing is moving the refresh rate can be low but instant the brain sees something it starts pumping up that refresh rate

That is why most people can't react to a punch that is instantaneous

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIf5XvFrBFo

time the amount of ns/frames before he reacted, the reaction is when he starts to move his hands after he had a natural reflex just telling

That video is amazing.

 

[inferKNOX]

After doing searching NewEgg and Amazon top to bottom, I can't find lower voltage (1.5V) RAM running @ 1866 or 2133, that has a low heat spreader to fit under large coolers (like mine), considering the proximity of the CPU socket & RAM slots of the 990FX boards.:shadedshu
Need to find some to pair up with Zambezi when it comes out next century.
Anyone know of any?

 

[Damn_Smooth]

There is nothing wrong with the CPU. Maybe it has gotta do with the high profile settings? I'm trying to reencode some movies which I already had ripped. Originally /fraps -> MKV, now MKV -> Mp4 for better compatibility. Should have done the Original src -> MP4 conversion in the first place. Oh well. That's what I am gonna do from now onwards.

This might fit your needs. Kingston Hyper X 1800 1.5v

http://www.valueram.com/datasheets/KHX1800C8D3K2_4G.pdf

I can't find where to buy it though, so sorry about that. If you look hard enough, it has to be out there somewhere.

 

[inferKNOX]

Thanks Damn_Smooth, but that's slightly underspec'd. Need 1866 or 2133.

 

[bucketface]

I can't find lower voltage (1.5V) RAM running @ 1866 or 2133

http://www.gskill.com/products.php?c1=1&c2=3&c3=67
some of these are 1866mhz at 1.5v
i wonder when we'll be seeing 1866mhz at 1.3v?

 

[TheLaughingMan]

OMG! There is so much stupid on this page it makes my brain hurt. Most of you have no grasp on how your eye actually works. Your eyes do not work like a camera. FPS is a condition of perception and the average human perceives between 60 to 75 FPS. If you really want to know how your eye works, click here.

Crysis 1 on my Pentium 4 and a 8800GTS only was able to get 9-11 min-max fps on all high

Crysis 1 on my 965BE and a GTX480 was able to get 30fps avg (14 min/60 max) and it looked a lot worse subjectively compared to the pentium this was on all ultra

This is actually not possible. No comment.

And seronx you should look up what motion blur actually is because its not what you think it is.

If you did, you would seen this is a Bulldozer thread. If you wish to continue your discussion, please create a new thread about it.

 

[theeldest]

After doing searching NewEgg and Amazon top to bottom, I can't find lower voltage (1.5V) RAM running @ 1866 or 2133, that has a low heat spreader to fit under large coolers (like mine), considering the proximity of the CPU socket & RAM slots of the 990FX boards.:shadedshu
Need to find some to pair up with Zambezi when it comes out next century.
Anyone know of any?

1866MHz
2x4GB
CAS 9
1.5v

You have two choices from G.Skill (Red or Black).
G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR...
G.SKILL Sniper Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 S...

 

[theeldest]

Question on the memory I just posted (trying to to be too off topic):

How well/poorly would it work to use a set of Snipers and a set of Ripjaws together? (I like the idea of half red and half black for my color scheme)

 

[TheMailMan78]

Question on the memory I just posted (trying to to be too off topic):

How well/poorly would it work to use a set of Snipers and a set of Ripjaws together? (I like the idea of half red and half black for my color scheme)

I have the new 990FX chipset with that exact same RAM. First question. How much RAM do you need. If you only need 4 gigs there is better RAM to be had then the snipers.

 

[theeldest]

I have the new 990FX chipset with that exact same RAM. First question. How much RAM do you need. If you only need 4 gigs there is better RAM to be had then the snipers.

"Need" or "Want"?

8GB is the Need (ok, not really need, but it's cheap, so why not)
16GB is the Want. (ie: mine is bigger than yours)

 

[TheMailMan78]

"Need" or "Want"?

8GB is the Need (ok, not really need, but it's cheap, so why not)
16GB is the Want. (ie: mine is bigger than yours)

The more ram you have (Physical sticks) the more stress on the memory controller the harder it is to OC. It also makes for a slower system overall. 4gigs is more then enough for most people. 8gigs if you are a heavy multitasking of into things like Photoshop.

Personally for a gaming rig I would go with 4 gigs. And DO NOT mix and match ram types.

 

[pantherx12]

The more ram you have (Physical sticks) the more stress on the memory controller the harder it is to OC. It also makes for a slower system overall. 4gigs is more then enough for most people. 8gigs if you are a heavy multitasking of into things like Photoshop.

Personally for a gaming rig I would go with 4 gigs. And DO NOT mix and match ram types.

I've always been luck and can push my ram so the same clocks regardless of the amount of sticks in use.