C2 OLED as monitor precautions?

[Bill_Bright]

My worry with an OLED as a monitor is the prevalence of static features like the taskbar.

Yeah, I wondered about that too.

 

[the54thvoid]

Yeah, I wondered about that too.

Post #9 from @XpanD mentions this (hiding it). Sounds like good advice.

 

[tabascosauz]

the new batch of OLEDs is a week or two out from release. I would wait for the 4k 240hz 1440P 480hz dual switch oleds.

dell is coming out with a 32" model that looks awesome.

I like what I am seeing on G series, but that is way out of my budget. 32" is what I have and way too small for a flatscreen in DCS.

I cannot see how there would ever been an issue with burn in unless you are obviously playing the same game over and over and over again which I usually do not do.

See, that's the issue.......that is what I am doing (I also play the same game as @Dr. Dro) and even worse, I will be using it for productivity. I just don't think the whole running 2 screens thing will work space-wise.

When it comes to computer monitors, 24" is the ideal size for me. I don't want bigger or smaller. Yet when it comes to OLED computer monitors, it seems you can find 13" up to 22", then it jumps to 27" and larger. I wonder why?

tbh 32" right now is great for almost everything, but DCS/BMS plays by different rules. Mainly because the mounts push me out from the desk.

So for that reason, it's either stick with what I have and get a Quest 3, or move to a big screen.

Post #9 from @XpanD mentions this (hiding it). Sounds like good advice.

They don't have the C2 clearance deal anymore (as I expected), but they have display units for C3 so I'm gonna go see in store now what it's like.

 

[Bill_Bright]

Post #9 from @XpanD mentions this (hiding it). Sounds like good advice.

Yeah, I know but I am a creature of habit - which is why I use Start 10/11 to make my desktops look like W7. Not only do I like my taskbars to always be visible, I have mine pulled to double height so my system clock shows 3 lines (time, day, week) and the taskbar includes the old Quick Launch toolbar.

Being a hardware guy, I like to stay current with the latest hardware technologies too. So that puts me at a crossroads - again.

 

[tabascosauz]

I've literally just ordered a 55" C3 to replace a 6 year old B6. UK, so it comes with a 5 year guarantee.

I did a shit tonne of research into reviews, and the C3 is only slightly superior to the C2. I think Dolby DTS pass through is one feature.

My B6 does have burn in, but it's negligible. What it has instead, is heat damage from PCB components that have left a green tint in a '+' shape across the full display. Not really noticeable unless I'm watching something with yellow a background.

My worry with an OLED as a monitor is the prevalence of static features like the taskbar. Do as suggested above to minimise that, and you'll be good.

Mind you, I'd not but an OLED as a monitor on a personal basis. But if you use it for multimedia, then yeah, seems a good choice.

So I saw the 42" C3 in store - it didn't exactly blow me away but that's only because I've used OLED panels before already. The picture quality is every bit as crisp as everyone says it is, and the bezel makes the display look surprisingly small (although I'm sure it'll be automatically bigger once it's placed on my desk, and not on the wall next to 55" and 65" TVs).

The brightness also appeared to be less of an issue than I thought, probably would be a non-issue at home.

I walked away though as the price is still outside of what I'm willing to pay. The C2 clearance price was just barely acceptable ($1200cad), the C3 is at $1488 and they were willing to come down to $1400. As I suspected, the QN90C did not impress at all, and certainly not for $1300.

What bugs me is that Samsung cheaped out on the small QN90Cs (43" and 50") and reused a midrange VA panel, while putting IPS on the bigger QN90Cs. Everybody hates on the IPS QN90Cs but I would actually prefer it - I don't use it as a TV, I would take IPS contrast/black uniformity over VA smearing and viewing angles any day of the week. But sadly it's the other way around.

It's looking increasingly likely that I'll just go the Quest 3 route instead as soon as it drops below $650cad. You have no idea how envious I am of your 5 year warranty (even if it doesn't cover burn-in).

I had a Sony A855 that died at the 13 month mark. After a bunch of begging and pleading and being nice i got them to do a one time warranty exchange for me, thankfully, and sold it asap. Never again! OLED is beautiful, Sony makes historically great tv and monitors, i had their CRT Trinitron TV's also, BUT OLED is NOT ready for the public. The tech is half-baked at best and it WILL fail in 2 years, DEF 3 years..... imo of course. I really want to like OLED and own another one, but people told me exactly what im saying now, and i of course didnt listen. Thankfully, i only lost a few hundred instead of thousands. Good luck to you in your endeavor either way though, @tabascosauz.

Interesting experience. Sony is out of the running entirely for me, their poor implementation of mitigation techniques makes burn-in a guarantee.

RTINGS is doing a long term longevity test and the LCD TVs aren't doing too hot either (even modern panels like U7, nano90 and QN90B) for their own reasons. So at least for new LG WOLEDs, things look okay for the technology. I still wouldn't consider a QD-OLED though, even if brightness of WOLED was an issue.

 

[Frag_Maniac]

I just got a C3 42" LG OLED here in the states. Couldn't pass up the deal for $900 over the holidays at Best Buy. You'll want to go into the picture settings and go much lower than the factory settings on OLED, Contrast, and Black Level. I use 40-85-40. Occasionally I'll bump OLED and BL up to 50 for HDR content. ALL of these are much lower than the factory settings though, which can go as high as 100 on OLED. At those settings burn in is more likely to happen.

BTW, I don't know if the C2s do it, but my C3 is said to auto pixel clean every so often, so if yours does, I wouldn't recommend doing it manually, unless you actually notice burn in. Reason being it puts a bit of wear and tear on the pixels.

Only other thing I can say is if you're planning to watch any content that benefits from upscaling, you may want to wait and see if you can get a good deal on a C3. Word is the upscaling is noticeably better. That's one of the things that caused me to return the first 4K TV I bought several years ago. That was a Sony X900E, it was so bad a lot of what was onscreen in HD network broadcasts was pretty blurry looking.

With the C3, HD broadcasts look WAY better, and I can even watch SD content on the network subchannels.

 

[Tecchie]

Posting my own experience. Windows knows what you got, I manually adjusted all my settings on my C2 and got rid of a ton of trash enhancements. If a stationary image is on the screen too long, the screen should dim on its own. But make sure power management is enabled in your OS, like blanking the screen after 5-10 minuts of inactivity.


If my brother lets Diable IV sit on one screen too long on his Xbox, the screen will dim itself after about ten minutes.. and I have the max illumination turned up.

 

[Micko]

As an owner of LG C1 with around 5000 hours under my belt, recently I noticed a very very mild burn in where taskbar used to be. And a faint outline of healthbar from online fps game i spent at least 1500 hours playing on this OLED.

As one of the posters mentioned, having background that changes often, or animated wallpaper might be better than having all black background, to have all OLED pixels age evenly. I didn't want to get rid of taskbar by autohiding it, and I wanted to "save the oled cells from aging" so I used black background and fully transparent taskbar. Funny thing is, what I got is a reverse burn in - what is burned in is all the maximized windows and not the taskbar itself. Now I changed taskbar to autohide, hoping that screen will even out in the following months/years. I am using OLED light at 80.

 

[Zach_01]

I do not own a big screen OLED TV for the PC but I do have a QD-OLED monitor for 11months now.

1. I’m auto hiding task bar
2. Set an all black screen saver with just a bouncing around clock on
3. Run dark themes everywhere if possible
4. Use minimum contrast ratio that is comfortable and likable to me when doing everyday simple stuff like browsing and only raising it in full screen movies/games

All OLED (WOLED, QDs etc) have pixel shifting that move (unnoticeably) around the whole screen when any static scene is on. If you look closely at the edge or screen you’ll see that the edge of visual screen is several pixels away from bezel.
Like a couple of days ago I noticed at some point the left-right distance from bezels was uneven.
One side had twice the distance from bezel from the opposite one.
So OLED screens carry several rows/columns of pixel on all 4 sides.

 

[Micko]

All OLED (WOLED, QDs etc) have pixel shifting that move (unnoticeably) around the whole screen when any static scene is on. If you look closely at the edge or screen you’ll see that the edge of visual screen is several pixels away from bezel.
Like a couple of days ago I noticed at some point the left-right distance from bezels was uneven.
One side had twice the distance from bezel from the opposite one.
So OLED screens carry several rows/columns of pixel on all 4 sides.

While in theory pixel shifting is a good precautionary measure, I ended up not using it because it was really annoying me having several rows cut off on one of the sides as the picture shifts. Some OLED monitors have overprovisioning of pixels to avoid this exact problem (full amount of pixels is 3850x2170, as an example, and as the 3840x2160 frame shifts within it, no part of the picture is ever cut off). While this is not important, or noticable in regular TV use, I hope TV manufacturers will implement this in their future models, to improve usability for us who are using their TVs as PC monitors.

 

[R-T-B]

Not worried about effects within 24 months - I have complete confidence in LG's proven effective mitigations (that clearly work better than what Samsung or Sony are doing). It's more what will happen in the 2-5 year period; I keep my monitors for a long time.

Honestly if you want a real realistic report of a 2019 era panel, you won't get a much more "worse case" scenario than my 55" B9. I disabled all the mitigations on day 1 and used 100% brightness/contrast. My only "mitigation" was dark mode apps and a screensaver.

4+ years in, I can finally report that if I load up a solid fullscreen red/green/blue color image, I can see the faint outline of the windows start menu. If however it is not purely one color of the RGB spectrum though you can't see it at all. Real world content shows nothing.

All in all, I am amazed given I have not been gentle with my hours or usage patterns. Honestly I've been abusive as you can be.

While in theory pixel shifting is a good precautionary measure, I ended up not using it because it was really annoying me having several rows cut off on one of the sides as the picture shifts. Some OLED monitors have overprovisioning of pixels to avoid this exact problem (full amount of pixels is 3850x2170, as an example, and as the 3840x2160 frame shifts within it, no part of the picture is ever cut off). While this is not important, or noticable in regular TV use, I hope TV manufacturers will implement this in their future models, to improve usability for us who are using their TVs as PC monitors.

Yeah I turned that off right away as well on my B9.

 

[XpanD]

What bugs me is that Samsung cheaped out on the small QN90Cs (43" and 50") and reused a midrange VA panel, while putting IPS on the bigger QN90Cs. Everybody hates on the IPS QN90Cs but I would actually prefer it - I don't use it as a TV, I would take IPS contrast/black uniformity over VA smearing and viewing angles any day of the week. But sadly it's the other way around.

Are Samsung's current VA panels that bad? I had a 40" Iiyama VA monitor (X4071UHSU-B1, one of the first large format 4K monitors you could get over here) before switching to my Panasonic OLED (TX-55FZW835), and the contrast actually wasn't that far off. It managed smearing pretty well, too. The OLED was mostly an upgrade in color accuracy/purity (the Iiyama had a horrible blue cast) and general uniformity, but I remember being quite surprised at just how well that old display held up.

(I do have a VA BenQ GW2270H that is awful in the ways you mentioned, but that was also a super cheap display... if Samsung's using panels that cheap in their pricier lines that's pretty gross)

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Are Samsung's current VA panels that bad? I had a 40" Iiyama VA monitor (X4071UHSU-B1, one of the first large format 4K monitors you could get over here) before switching to my Panasonic OLED (TX-55FZW835), and the contrast actually wasn't that far off. It managed smearing pretty well, too. The OLED was mostly an upgrade in color accuracy/purity (the Iiyama had a horrible blue cast) and general uniformity, but I remember being quite surprised at just how well that old display held up.

(I do have a VA BenQ GW2270H that is awful in the ways you mentioned, but that was also a super cheap display... if Samsung's using panels that cheap in their pricier lines that's pretty gross)

The main downsides of current FALD VA is they don't auto switch on and off the local diming when HDR is detected and the input response is terrible in HDR. Otherwise they are fine if you don't mind doing quite a bit more work and are still better than most IPS for content consumption and hdr gaming.

I'd probably prefer somthing with a remote like my G8 OLED if I was using a large VA as a monitor it would be much less annoying switching settings constantly.

 

[tabascosauz]

Are Samsung's current VA panels that bad? I had a 40" Iiyama VA monitor (X4071UHSU-B1, one of the first large format 4K monitors you could get over here) before switching to my Panasonic OLED (TX-55FZW835), and the contrast actually wasn't that far off. It managed smearing pretty well, too. The OLED was mostly an upgrade in color accuracy/purity (the Iiyama had a horrible blue cast) and general uniformity, but I remember being quite surprised at just how well that old display held up.

(I do have a VA BenQ GW2270H that is awful in the ways you mentioned, but that was also a super cheap display... if Samsung's using panels that cheap in their pricier lines that's pretty gross)

The note about IPS contrast and uniformity is not a pro. VA is much better. It's the viewing angles that are not so great.

I have almost the exact same BenQ 22" (GW2265) somewhere in storage, I don't think super old VA like that is comparable to what you find nowadays.

afaik small QN90Cs do not take their panel from their QN90B predecessors, but even lower end SKUs (QN85?). That's the problem, entire lineup is way too much money for what it is.

Can't have good things apparently; my Quest 3 endeavour might have been stopped dead in its tracks because it has no return policy after opening. A shitty little demo in store is going to tell me fuck all about how well it will work for me in DCS/BMS, and Amazon shipping is 2 weeks. Might just settle for a Hisense U7 or U8 instead at this rate, so tired of all this BS for both VR and big screens. 55" U78K is $900

 

[oxrufiioxo]

The note about IPS contrast and uniformity is not a pro. VA is much better. It's the viewing angles that are not so great.

I have almost the exact same BenQ 22" (GW2265) somewhere in storage, I don't think super old VA like that is comparable to what you find nowadays.

afaik small QN90Cs do not take their panel from their QN90B predecessors, but even lower end SKUs (QN85?). That's the problem, entire lineup is way too much money for what it is.

Can't have good things apparently; my Quest 3 endeavour might have been stopped dead in its tracks because it has no return policy after opening. A shitty little demo in store is going to tell me fuck all about how well it will work for me in DCS/BMS, and Amazon shipping is 2 weeks. Might just settle for a Hisense U7 or U8 instead at this rate, so tired of all this BS for both VR and big screens. 55" U78K is $900

U8K is pretty nice but if the TCL QM8 is close in price that would be tempting.

 

[Zach_01]

While in theory pixel shifting is a good precautionary measure, I ended up not using it because it was really annoying me having several rows cut off on one of the sides as the picture shifts. Some OLED monitors have overprovisioning of pixels to avoid this exact problem (full amount of pixels is 3850x2170, as an example, and as the 3840x2160 frame shifts within it, no part of the picture is ever cut off). While this is not important, or noticable in regular TV use, I hope TV manufacturers will implement this in their future models, to improve usability for us who are using their TVs as PC monitors.

In my case (monitor) the real physical resolution is beyond the 3440x1440 so the screen can shift maybe 10-15pixels (if not more) to all sides so no content is cut off.
I was under the impression that all modern (5years?) OLED panels were like that.

 

[Micko]

In my case (monitor) the real physical resolution is beyond the 3440x1440 so the screen can shift maybe 10-15pixels (if not more) to all sides so no content is cut off.
I was under the impression that all modern (5years?) OLED panels were like that.

10-15 pixel movement sounds very good. Thin lines, smaller interface elements and fonts will have less impact on overall panel uniformity.

Afaik OLED tvs do not have overprovisioning. I didn't even know that pixel overprovision on OLED monitors was a thing until it was mentioned in one of HDTVTest videos on their youtube channel.

 

[R-T-B]

I was under the impression that all modern (5years?) OLED panels were like that.

My 2019 B9 just cut the content at the edges. It's a TV technically though.

 

[Zach_01]

10-15 pixel movement sounds very good. Thin lines, smaller interface elements and fonts will have less impact on overall panel uniformity.

Afaik OLED tvs do not have overprovisioning. I didn't even know that pixel overprovision on OLED monitors was a thing until it was mentioned in one of HDTVTest videos on their youtube channel.

I used a magnifier and count them
For example, when the picture is at the lowest bottom and far right, then 16 pixels are blank(off) at top and another 16 on the left.
So if its centered 8 pixel over provisioning on all 4 sides.

They didn't add this feature yet at least on latest OLED TVs?

 

[Micko]

They didn't add this feature yet at least on latest OLED TVs?

Doesn't seem like it. Googling oled and overprovisioning is mentioned only in couple of oled monitor threads. If at any point they do decide to overprovision tv panels, I'm sure in marketing campaign they won't forget to mention this feature.

 

[tabascosauz]

U8K is pretty nice but if the TCL QM8 is close in price that would be tempting.

QM8 is too big unfortunately. 55" is getting up there and probably the limit for what I can take in terms of VA viewing angles from relatively close (as a monitor).

My hopes for Quest 3 evaporated instantly as no one has a demo unit and no one accepts returns. Amazon seems to not be working for most of January (Quest 3 and all the aforementioned TVs all have really long shipping times arriving on the 18th). So I guess I got time to brood on it.

Still watching the C3 pricing, but I have a feeling it won't be coming down for a long time. Still kicking my stupid self for missing the holiday clearance deal on C2. Roster is expanding to include Q7 ($700cad right now), U7K, U8K........wish there was a pcpartpicker for TVs

Q80B/C also came onto my radar as an IPS panel.

 

[Dr. Dro]

As for me, I've left all mitigations enabled and using very conservative brightness levels whenever possible (mostly on 0). I've noticed the pixel shifting at work sometimes. Usually on desktop, entire picture moves a few pixels to the left or right. It's enough to notice but I don't consider it too bothersome.

QM8 is too big unfortunately. 55" is getting up there and probably the limit for what I can take in terms of VA viewing angles from relatively close (as a monitor).

My hopes for Quest 3 evaporated instantly as no one has a demo unit and no one accepts returns. Amazon seems to not be working for most of January (Quest 3 and all the aforementioned TVs all have really long shipping times arriving on the 18th). So I guess I got time to brood on it.

Still watching the C3 pricing, but I have a feeling it won't be coming down for a long time. Still kicking my stupid self for missing the holiday clearance deal on C2. Roster is expanding to include Q7 ($700cad right now), U7K, U8K........wish there was a pcpartpicker for TVs

Q80B/C also came onto my radar as an IPS panel.

If viewing angles are important, OLEDs are absolutely perfect at that. I think the C3 is a great investment, the B or even A series (A has 60 Hz limitation, but IMO that's OK if it's not meant for video games) should be much better than traditional LCDs

 

[tabascosauz]

As for me, I've left all mitigations enabled and using very conservative brightness levels whenever possible (mostly on 0). I've noticed the pixel shifting at work sometimes. Usually on desktop, entire picture moves a few pixels to the left or right. It's enough to notice but I don't consider it too bothersome.

If viewing angles are important, OLEDs are absolutely perfect at that. I think the C3 is a great investment, the B or even A series (A has 60 Hz limitation, but IMO that's OK if it's not meant for video games) should be much better than traditional LCDs

I read on reddit about C2/C3 users making custom resolutions in NVCP to cut out just a handful of pixels from V and H resolution, so that pixel shifting doesn't cut off any content. Seemed like a good enough solution to me.

You reckon a $1300cad 55" B3 is worth it? There's a little sale going on at the moment. Best Buy is the only retailer that carries the B3 apparently in Canada, not much other choice.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

C3 will definitely drop again when the C4 releases in March, but that is a relatively long wait.

 

[Dr. Dro]

I read on reddit about C2/C3 users making custom resolutions in NVCP to cut out just a handful of pixels from V and H resolution, so that pixel shifting doesn't cut off any content. Seemed like a good enough solution to me.

You reckon a $1300cad 55" B3 is worth it? There's a little sale going on at the moment. Best Buy is the only retailer that carries the B3 apparently in Canada, not much other choice.

I looked them up on canadian Best Buy, at 55 in

B3 1299.99
C3 1899.99
G3 2499.99 + cost of a stand (it doesn't come with one)

It's worth it at that price IMO, around a third of the price cheaper than the C3 and around half the price of a G3