Charging by the Byte to Curb Internet Traffic

[Easy Rhino]

How long before they develop a system where you have to pay for the air you breathe?

are you comparing breathing to using the internet? will you die if you dont use the internet? (if your answer to this is yes then perhaps you should get some counciling)

 

[DaedalusHelios]

what i am saying is that there really is no way to properly define "abuse." you are favoring the consumer over the business owner and that isnt fair. you cant use govt to enforce the price of products just like you cant use the govt to make individuals pay a set high price. these are forms of price control which are detrimental to a free society. so in my eyes, individuals do not have a right to somebody elses labor. that means that we do not have a right to legally force someone else (in this case an ISP owner) into setting a price we think is fair. in a free market two parties come together and agree on what is fair. if 1 party uses the govt as coercion then we might as well live under stalin.

Incorrect, they have reached an agreement with the government to not allow any other companies to provide the service through the lines that were put there with tax payers money. Thats just like Stalin.

 

[Easy Rhino]

Incorrect, they have reached an agreement with the government to not allow any other companies to provide the service through the lines that were put there with tax payers money. Thats just like Stalin.

then that would be unfair and against the principles of a fair and open market. but what you are saying is that it is not ok for a company to use the govt to its advantage but it is ok for an consumer to use the govt to its advantage.

 

[Mussels]

Incorrect, they have reached an agreement with the government to not allow any other companies to provide the service through the lines that were put there with tax payers money. Thats just like Stalin.

nah its just corporate greed. sooner or later someone will profit and work a way around it.

This is something i mentioned earlier: telstra tried this in australia - other companies decided it was profitiable to build their own networks and work on their own rather than be smothered by them, and we're now benefiting from competition. This will happen in the USA as well... no matter how many ISP's introduce throttling and shaping, some businiess will always offer an alternative if they think they can make a profit.

This thread is getting worse than the ATI vs Nvidia ones, or AMD vs intel - some very arrogant people are complaining that they should get an even better deal than they have without any effort on their part. If you dont like it, complain to the ISP, write letters to congress and attend protests. bitching in an online forum will not get you anything.

I am done with this thread, unless something more interesting than useless flames comes up.

 

[kaneda]

well, without getting into a debate over civil rights, i would say that if there is only one ISP in your area and they want to charge $1 million then they have the right to and you have the right to not use their service. atleast in the US you are not entitled to internet, nor are you entitled to tell ISPs what they should be charging.

The problem with that is, during America's establishment there was NO internet. the internet will go down as on of the greatest if not THE greatest technological advancement of the past century. Everyone should be entitled to use the internet at reasonable prices, just like everyone can pick up some free channels on TV.

I'm sorry to assume things, but you're talking like one of those people that uses the " free market" excuse for everything.

 

[DaedalusHelios]

then that would be unfair and against the principles of a fair and open market. but what you are saying is that it is not ok for a company to use the govt to its advantage but it is ok for an consumer to use the govt to its advantage.

The government's number one duty is to serve the people. If it doesn't, you should overthrow it. ~A "founding father" said this.... I forgot which one

A corporation is given the privilege to operate by the government. Its a privelege, not a right. Thats the way it started out. Unfortunately people don't see it that way anymore.

Corporations are given more rights than an individual thanks to the laws passed over the years by corrupt politicians. ~See The Corporation

Many corporations are good though. The ones that abuse the people should be regulated or fined, since its a privilege.

nah its just corporate greed. sooner or later someone will profit and work a way around it.

This is something i mentioned earlier: telstra tried this in australia - other companies decided it was profitiable to build their own networks and work on their own rather than be smothered by them, and we're now benefiting from competition. This will happen in the USA as well... no matter how many ISP's introduce throttling and shaping, some businiess will always offer an alternative if they think they can make a profit.

This thread is getting worse than the ATI vs Nvidia ones, or AMD vs intel - some very arrogant people are complaining that they should get an even better deal than they have without any effort on their part. If you dont like it, complain to the ISP, write letters to congress and attend protests. bitching in an online forum will not get you anything.

I am done with this thread, unless something more interesting than useless flames comes up.

Its called an exchange of ideas. Its fine with me if someone tells me something I don't agree with. I try to explain why I don't feel the same way rather than call people arrogant and insist they do nothing but bitch. Without effort would be living in the status quo and being a hive mind without questioning the ethics of those that control a good portion of your life.

I know you question policies..... atleast some of them. Don't be "hands off" with corporations and the treatment of their customers. To stand up for the individual is what governments are for. Thats what governing is.

 

[Nick89]

some companies might. i find blanket statements and conspiracy theories to be useless without facts.

In this thread alone we've already had complaints and reports of people getting less speed than they pay for... does it occur to you that the network infrastructure is not owned by the ISP, so they CANT do anything about it? the only options is to wait for whoever does own it to upgrade it, or reduce users usage.

I pay for a 3mb DL / 512k UL, but I get 25mb DL.

I'm going to raise hell with my ISP if they start this limiting usage crap. I get what I pay for, and this is just going to be another way for them to take MORE of MY money that I WORKED for, Its not right and I dont see why you say its a conspiracy theory because DaedalusHelios said the ISPs want more money,they do:shadedshu! Here in america companys try to screw over the people/customers as much as possible and theres a name for it: Capitalism I'm not saying capitalism is bad but it is abused.

 

[DaedalusHelios]

I pay for a 3mb DL / 512k UL, but I get 25mb DL.

I'm going to raise hell with my ISP if they start this limiting usage crap. I get what I pay for, and this is just going to be another way for them to take MORE of MY money that I WORKED for, Its not right and I dont see why you say its a conspiracy theory because DaedalusHelios said the ISPs want more money,they do:shadedshu! Here in america companys try to screw over the people/customers as much as possible and theres a name for it: Capitalism

Have you ever been raped by cell phone fees before?

Thats what they are trying to impose on the internet. Its not like you using your cell phone an hour longer each day costs them close to the $800 you would pay in overage. They sneak this stuff in the fine print of your contract as "fees may apply".

 

[Easy Rhino]

The problem with that is, during America's establishment there was NO internet. the internet will go down as on of the greatest if not THE greatest technological advancement of the past century. Everyone should be entitled to use the internet at reasonable prices, just like everyone can pick up some free channels on TV.

I'm sorry to assume things, but you're talking like one of those people that uses the " free market" excuse for everything.

i dont believe everyone should be entitled to the internet. i believe we are entitled to be free and live our lives as we see fit, and if that means working to purchase internet service then fine. by no means do i believe it is fair to circumvent the free market and force ISPs to lower their price for the sake of the masses. not only is it unfair to the business people who invest all that money, but it is unfair to the consumer because it will without a doubt slow progress and make it MORE expensive for everyone.

 

[Nick89]

Have you ever been raped by cell phone fees before?

Thats what they are trying to impose on the internet. Its not like you using your cell phone an hour longer each day costs them close to the $800 you would pay in overage. They sneak this stuff in the fine print of your contract as "fees may apply".

Exactly, the ISP companys are trying to find new ways to rip off the consumers.

 

[Gam'ster]

In The UK the same applies, BT own a lot of the exchanges and lines and unless u can get cable in your area your choices are limited and service within those choices differs a lot and as polaris said the old lines and such don't help, but atm there is a consistent argument about who will pay for the upgrades gov'ment, Isp's or BT neither will pay so stalemate for the moment. We should follow Japans lead but correct me if im wrong but hasnt japan got the best infrastructure or close to it ?

Gam

 

[DaedalusHelios]

In The UK the same applies, BT own a lot of the exchanges and lines and unless u can get cable in your area your choices are limited and service within those choices differs a lot and as polaris said the old lines and such don't help, but atm there is a consistent argument about who will pay for the upgrades gov'ment, Isp's or BT neither will pay so stalemate for the moment. We should follow Japans lead but correct me if im wrong but hasnt japan got the best infrastructure or close to it ?

Gam

Yes, and they have the lowest telecom prices in the first world aswell.

HHHHMMMMMMmmmm why don't we have better and unlimited access to the internet at those prices??? Since we pay the most for telecommunications in the world????? Greed maybe? But greed should never be regulated.... no matter what it does to the individual because its the right of corporations to do whatever they want. Or is it?

The real question is who will stand up for the individual? If the government doesn't, who will? Nobody would. And right now, nobody is.

 

[pentastar111]

Well, I'll tell you what...These guy's (Time/Warner A.K.A. Adelphia)already get $1160.00 a year out of me for my internet (or internets for you Bush fans)....That's NOT including the additional charge for cable tv.... I think that's more than enough. I'm not complaining, yet.... now you raise this price closer to 1500 or 2 grand a year for internet alone and I'll get rid of my PC and go back to consoles.... F%ck 'em.

 

[kaneda]

In The UK the same applies, BT own a lot of the exchanges and lines and unless u can get cable in your area your choices are limited and service within those choices differs a lot and as polaris said the old lines and such don't help, but atm there is a consistent argument about who will pay for the upgrades gov'ment, Isp's or BT neither will pay so stalemate for the moment. We should follow Japans lead but correct me if im wrong but hasnt japan got the best infrastructure or close to it ?

Gam

hence im moving there, the average download speed is 100mbit. glorious fiber optic lines ¦3

 

[DaedalusHelios]

Well, I'll tell you what...These guy's (Time/Warner A.K.A. Adelphia)already get $1160.00 a year out of me for my internet (or internets for you Bush fans)....That's NOT including the additional charge for cable tv.... I think that's more than enough. I'm not complaining, yet.... now you raise this price closer to 1500 or 2 grand a year for internet alone and I'll get rid of my PC and go back to consoles.... F%ck 'em.

Thats awful.

 

[Triprift]

Isnt Sweden similar ive heard users there getting awesome speeds?

 

[DaedalusHelios]

hence im moving there, the average download speed is 100mbit. glorious fiber optic lines ¦3

My friends that have lived there say its tough socially when you live there due to their Xenophobia. But if you can deal with that I would say its a great place to live.

 

[Solaris17]

I personally think this is rediculous imo were going back in time...dialup days only with DSL pay by the min type of crap..i mean seriously if i have a highend connection and i already pay like $200 a month for some crazy speed..if im DL'ing a linux distro and a pop up comes up saying that i have exceeded my bandwidth limit 95% done im gonna be sooooooooooo @#%$#^$#% i mean why throttle our connection? if they only log in for 5min why do i need to buy a limit of bandwidth? why not do what they already do? here in concord i have a 10mb/5mb connection but ilive downtown....if i start downlaoding huge files like distros nothing happens but if i keep doing that around 12-2pm i start getting throttled because these 5min users are logging on cause they gont out of work w/e that doesnt bother me around 6 ill have my speeds back...thats a much more efficient system..i mean i upload drivers distros and my utility DVD to my server....me and others like me at that rate with tha amount of traffic will go over their cap quicker than shit.

 

[kaneda]

My friends that have lived there say its tough socially when you live there due to their Xenophobia. But if you can deal with that I would say its a great place to live.

Heard the same thing, im not really a very social person, so it's all good.

 

[Easy Rhino]

In The UK the same applies, BT own a lot of the exchanges and lines and unless u can get cable in your area your choices are limited and service within those choices differs a lot and as polaris said the old lines and such don't help, but atm there is a consistent argument about who will pay for the upgrades gov'ment, Isp's or BT neither will pay so stalemate for the moment. We should follow Japans lead but correct me if im wrong but hasnt japan got the best infrastructure or close to it ?

Gam

south korea and japan have the fastest available consumer internet. not because their systems of govt are better, but because they are much smaller countries than the US and they are not upgrading from an infrastructure that is 30 years old.

 

[Solaris17]

south korea and japan have the fastest available consumer internet. not because their systems of govt are better, but because they are much smaller countries than the US and they are not upgrading from an infrastructure that is 30 years old.

that and the fact that they are the most technologically advanced countrys in the world...i mean maybe not in some aspects but in general you cant argue with me here some places are really poor harvest your own rice subsistance farming but were their is tech its always crazy advanced so even if they had to update their infastructure i dont think it would be that hard for them.

 

[Easy Rhino]

that and the fact that they are the most technologically advanced countrys in the world...i mean maybe not in some aspects but in general you cant argue with me here some places are really poor harvest your own rice subsistance farming but were their is tech its always crazy advanced so even if they had to update their infastructure i dont think it would be that hard for them.

they certainly have some of the most advanced gadgets out there, but nothing we wouldnt have the in the US if we didnt have all the regulations slowing down companies trying to innovate. one of the coolest things they have in s korea is high quality tv on their GPS devices. also, our mobile phones seem to be generations behind theirs. it comes down to the fact that the US is a large country which makes it expensive to run line every where and upgrade cell towers.

 

[Solaris17]

they certainly have some of the most advanced gadgets out there, but nothing we wouldnt have the in the US if we didnt have all the regulations slowing down companies trying to innovate. one of the coolest things they have in s korea is high quality tv on their GPS devices. also, our mobile phones seem to be generations behind theirs. it comes down to the fact that the US is a large country which makes it expensive to run line every where and upgrade cell towers.

ya i totally get what you mean speaking of cells my cousin went to tokyo for a bit he's an IT tech for a company and he went as a kind of week long vacation he told me that the cell phones their are CRAZY!!! makes the $500 cells here look like vtech toys.

 

[Triprift]

Actually my sister partner went to South Korea late last year and he tolled me they dont have 3g with there mobile phones wich stunned me as i assumed theyd be miles infront of us in that department. Ofcourse that could be all different now.

 

[Solaris17]

Actually my sister partner went to South Korea late last year and he tolled me they dont have 3g with there mobile phones wich stunned me as i assumed theyd be miles infront of us in that department. Ofcourse that could be all different now.

probably because they like dumping their R&D money into weapons or japan and china charge alot for the tech korea isnt that rich of a nation if i remember but i could be wrong id love to go though