• We've upgraded our forums. Please post any issues/requests in this thread.

Dell is back to their old tricks. This is why I hate Dell!

Joined
Jan 29, 2012
Messages
4,481 (2.09/day)
Likes
3,640
Location
Boca Raton, Florida
System Name natr0n-PC
Processor Phenom II X6 1100T @ 3.7 GHz - NB 3.0 GHz | Xeon E3-1290
Motherboard MSI 970 Gaming | Asus Sabertooth Z77
Cooling TRUE 120 |Deep Cool Assassin
Memory Gskill Ripjaws X - 16GB DDR3 (4x4GB)
Video Card(s) MSI 7970 Twin Frozr III BE OC - 1100/1500
Storage Crucial MX300 525GB + Multiple Mechs
Display(s) SyncMaster 2343BWX 23" 2048x1152 / Dell 1909W 19" 1440x900
Case Sunbeam Transformer Silver - frame is built like a tank
Audio Device(s) X-Fi Extreme Music | X-Fi Titanium - Bookshelf system
Power Supply Corsair TX650 v1
Software Windows XP/7/8.1/10
Benchmark Scores Xeon E3-1290 cpuz world record
#26
How proprietshitty of them.
 
Joined
Aug 7, 2009
Messages
605 (0.20/day)
Likes
139
Processor Intel i7-940 @ 3.5Ghz
Motherboard Asus P6X58D-E
Cooling Corsair H70
Memory 12GB OCZ Platinum XTC DDR3 1600mhz CL7
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX 780ti
Storage Revodrive X2 240GB, 5TB HDD storage
Display(s) Asus PB278Q 27''
Case Antec Lanboy Air
Audio Device(s) Asus Xonar D2X
Power Supply Corsair HX850W
Software Windows 7 x64
#27
It isn't so much about upgrading the machine, it is about repairing it when the power supply fails. It isn't too much to expect that they use a standard easily replacable part.
Well, you could always get a new PSU, cut and solder the wires directly to the board, then glue the unit to the case.
 

newtekie1

Semi-Retired Folder
Joined
Nov 22, 2005
Messages
24,275 (5.51/day)
Likes
10,362
Location
Indiana, USA
Processor Intel Core i7 4790K@4.6GHz
Motherboard AsRock Z97 Extreme6
Cooling Corsair H100i
Memory 32GB Corsair DDR3-1866 9-10-9-27
Video Card(s) ASUS GTX960 STRIX @ 1500/1900
Storage 480GB Crucial MX200 + 2TB Seagate Solid State Hybrid Drive with 128GB OCZ Synapse SSD Cache
Display(s) QNIX QX2710 1440p@120Hz
Case Corsair 650D Black
Audio Device(s) Onboard is good enough for me
Power Supply Corsair HX850
Software Windows 10 Pro x64
#28
Well, you could always get a new PSU, cut and solder the wires directly to the board, then glue the unit to the case.
Yep, that's definitely a practical solution!:rolleyes:
 
Joined
Oct 2, 2005
Messages
2,908 (0.65/day)
Likes
656
Location
Baltimore MD
Processor FX-8320@ 4.2Ghz
Motherboard Gigabyte 970A-UD3
Cooling Xigmatek S1283
Memory 2x4Gb Corsair 1600 9-9-9-24
Video Card(s) Sapphire RX-480 Nitro
Storage OCZ Vertex 3 120G, 1TB WD Black
Display(s) Dell S2330MX
Case Corsair Carbide Air 540
Audio Device(s) X-Fi Fatal1ty / 5.1 Logitech Z-5500
Power Supply Silverstone DA750
Software Win10 pro 64bit
#29
just when Microcenter started carrying psu's that fit in slimlines they start with this BS
 

qubit

Overclocked quantum bit
Joined
Dec 6, 2007
Messages
14,547 (3.98/day)
Likes
8,052
Location
Quantum Well UK
System Name Quantumville™
Processor Intel Core i7-2700K at stock (hits 5 gees+ easily)
Motherboard Asus P8Z68-V PRO/GEN3
Cooling Noctua NH-D14
Memory 16GB (4 x 4GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 PC3-12800 C9 1600MHz)
Video Card(s) Zotac GTX 1080 AMP! Extreme Edition
Storage Samsung 850 Pro 256GB | WD Green 4TB
Display(s) BenQ XL2720Z | Asus VG278HE (both 27", 144Hz, 3D Vision 2, 1080p)
Case Cooler Master HAF 922
Audio Device(s) Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Fatal1ty PCIe
Power Supply Corsair HX 850W v1
Software Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
#30
I recommended the client sent the piece of shit back.
+1 This looks like the worst Dell I've ever seen. Low quality, totally proprietary and deliberately impossible to upgrade.

A piece of shit indeed.
 
Joined
Jan 11, 2013
Messages
832 (0.46/day)
Likes
138
Location
California
System Name Primary/Secondary/HTPC/Server
Processor i5-4590/i3-3220/A4-5300 APU/Pentium G3258
Motherboard MSI Z97S Krait/Biostar TH67+/ASRock FM2A75Pro4-M/MSI Z87M-G43
Cooling Noctua NH-U12S/Stock Intel/Stock AMD/Stock Intel
Memory 16GB DDR3/8GB DDR3/8GB DDR3/10GB DDR3
Video Card(s) GeForce GTX760 2GB/Radeon HD5870 1GB/Radeon HD7480D/Intel
Storage 480GB SSD+ 3TB HDD/240GB SSD/60GB SSD/2x 2TB HDD Intel RAID1
Display(s) 3x Samsung 23" 1080P/Acer 24" 1080P/LG TV 32" 720P
Case Fractal Design/Corsair (it was free)/Silverstone ML03/Antec VSK3000
Audio Device(s) Onboard
Power Supply XFX 750W/Cougar 550W/Antec 380W/In Win 350W
Mouse it moves the pointer, clicks, and scrolls
Keyboard CM Storm MX Blue/Logitech/Logitech
Software Win7 Pro/Win7 Pro/Win10 Pro/Win7 Pro
Benchmark Scores Buy American - Choose Chevrolet/GMC Trucks!
#31
Not sure what you are all flipping out about.

Dells are some of the most reliable OEM PCs especially the Optiplex series. It's the HPs, even the "business class" ones that have bizarre issues and have such crappy BIOS that even one CPU model higher "Microcode error" and the updates on their website barely ever work?

Additionally, OEM power supplies, especially Dell, are miles better than the cheap power supplies most custom built low cost computers use. Sure, it's no Seasonic, and their capacitor choices are usually mediocre at best, but I'd rather have a 290W Dell PSU with Teapo capacitors than a "680W" $10 PSU which most custom built cheap computers are built with.

RAM slots? You're really complaining about that? 16GB could go in there, and the target customers for this computer is NOT even going to use more than 4GB even with the latest 64-bit Win8 Pro OS.

And whoever above said that it doesn't matter if it's proprietary because most companies buy dozens, hundreds, or thousands of these computers have the on site support contracts, is spot on.

Source: I work almost full time at a local computer refurbisher/repair shop/ewaste recycling place.
 
Joined
Dec 9, 2013
Messages
910 (0.62/day)
Likes
280
System Name BlueKnight
Processor Intel Celeron G1610 @ 2.60GHz
Motherboard Gigabyte GA-H61M-S2PH (rev. 1.0)
Memory 1x 4GB DDR3 @ 1333MHz (Kingston KVR13N9S8/4)
Video Card(s) 1x NVIDIA GeForce 9500GT 512MB (Zotac ZT-95TEH2P-FSL)
Storage 1x 160GB (Western Digital WD1600AAJS-75M0A0)
Display(s) 1x 20" 1600x900 (PHILIPS 200VW9FBJ/78)
Case μATX Case (Generic)
Power Supply 300W (Generic)
Software GNU/Linux Mint 17
#32
itely a practical s
Please, add Lenovo, HP, Toshiba, Samsung to that list.

There may be more which I can't remember now... Happy New Year!
 
Joined
Jun 27, 2011
Messages
5,625 (2.38/day)
Likes
2,986
Processor Intel I7 4790k (stock)
Motherboard ASRock H97M-ITX/ac LGA 1150 Intel H97
Cooling Prolimatech megahalem
Memory Crucial 2x4gb 1600mhz
Video Card(s) EVGA 1060 3gb
Storage OWC Mercury SSD 240 GB
Display(s) Asus 144hz
Case Raijintek Metis
Power Supply Corsair SF600 600w psu
Software Windows 10 64 Bit
#33
Laptops failure rates but related.

Source
 

newtekie1

Semi-Retired Folder
Joined
Nov 22, 2005
Messages
24,275 (5.51/day)
Likes
10,362
Location
Indiana, USA
Processor Intel Core i7 4790K@4.6GHz
Motherboard AsRock Z97 Extreme6
Cooling Corsair H100i
Memory 32GB Corsair DDR3-1866 9-10-9-27
Video Card(s) ASUS GTX960 STRIX @ 1500/1900
Storage 480GB Crucial MX200 + 2TB Seagate Solid State Hybrid Drive with 128GB OCZ Synapse SSD Cache
Display(s) QNIX QX2710 1440p@120Hz
Case Corsair 650D Black
Audio Device(s) Onboard is good enough for me
Power Supply Corsair HX850
Software Windows 10 Pro x64
#34
Not sure what you are all flipping out about.

Dells are some of the most reliable OEM PCs especially the Optiplex series. It's the HPs, even the "business class" ones that have bizarre issues and have such crappy BIOS that even one CPU model higher "Microcode error" and the updates on their website barely ever work?
I've had my fair share of issues with Dell's BIOSes. Like BIOSes that support a processor, but not the exact same processor but one stepping higher. Dell tends to never update their CPU support in the BIOS after they release the PC, never updating CPU support for the PC. They do this on purpose to try to force people to buy new computers instead of upgrading.

Additionally, OEM power supplies, especially Dell, are miles better than the cheap power supplies most custom built low cost computers use. Sure, it's no Seasonic, and their capacitor choices are usually mediocre at best, but I'd rather have a 290W Dell PSU with Teapo capacitors than a "680W" $10 PSU which most custom built cheap computers are built with.
There was a time when Dell power supplies were really good, but Dell has also put out some really bad power supplies. They used to really underrate their power supplies, but the power supply in this machine is not one of the good units. It isn't even 80+ Standard efficient. Yes, it probably is better than the garbage $10 units, but not by much, and certainly not what I would put in any of my custom builds. I won't put anything below 80+ Bronze in anything I custom build for a client.

RAM slots? You're really complaining about that? 16GB could go in there, and the target customers for this computer is NOT even going to use more than 4GB even with the latest 64-bit Win8 Pro OS.
The RAM slots are not a deal breaker, and not why I started this topic. Only having 2 is mildly annoying, but not something I would really fret about.

And whoever above said that it doesn't matter if it's proprietary because most companies buy dozens, hundreds, or thousands of these computers have the on site support contracts, is spot on.
That's fine, but there are a lot of small business buying these too that don't have support contracts with Dell. It certainly does matter that it is proprietary. Don't assume only large corporations buy these, because that is way off.

Source: I work almost full time at a local computer refurbisher/repair shop/ewaste recycling place.
Source: I own a computer repair/support company servicing mostly small businesses, replacing 3-5 dead Dell power supplies a week.
 
Joined
Jan 11, 2013
Messages
832 (0.46/day)
Likes
138
Location
California
System Name Primary/Secondary/HTPC/Server
Processor i5-4590/i3-3220/A4-5300 APU/Pentium G3258
Motherboard MSI Z97S Krait/Biostar TH67+/ASRock FM2A75Pro4-M/MSI Z87M-G43
Cooling Noctua NH-U12S/Stock Intel/Stock AMD/Stock Intel
Memory 16GB DDR3/8GB DDR3/8GB DDR3/10GB DDR3
Video Card(s) GeForce GTX760 2GB/Radeon HD5870 1GB/Radeon HD7480D/Intel
Storage 480GB SSD+ 3TB HDD/240GB SSD/60GB SSD/2x 2TB HDD Intel RAID1
Display(s) 3x Samsung 23" 1080P/Acer 24" 1080P/LG TV 32" 720P
Case Fractal Design/Corsair (it was free)/Silverstone ML03/Antec VSK3000
Audio Device(s) Onboard
Power Supply XFX 750W/Cougar 550W/Antec 380W/In Win 350W
Mouse it moves the pointer, clicks, and scrolls
Keyboard CM Storm MX Blue/Logitech/Logitech
Software Win7 Pro/Win7 Pro/Win10 Pro/Win7 Pro
Benchmark Scores Buy American - Choose Chevrolet/GMC Trucks!
#35
Just because they didn't waste money on the 80Plus certification doesn't mean it isn't efficient.
Why don't you take apart a modern DELL power supply and post some pics? Then the community can be a judge of the quality of the supply.

Who cares if it's not conservatively rated? That 290W PSU is more than enough for a PC that's never even going to consume more than 100W in typical usage they just can't put something that low in there because somebody will bitch about it in a public forum.

By the way: 3-5 Dell power supplies a week? You're leaving out the important numbers: How many Dells? How many HP PSUs are failing vs how many HPs you manage? You're leaving out 90% of the relevant information and forming conclusions based on incorrect data.
 

Norton

Moderator & WCG-TPU Captain
Staff member
Joined
Dec 21, 2011
Messages
12,663 (5.80/day)
Likes
36,203
Location
USA
System Name My Fortress/Trish (WCG)/Julia (WCG)/Ella (WCG)/Junior(WCG)/Cruncher 1 & 2/Kreij (WCG)
Processor Ryzen 1700X/i7-970/2600K/i7-980X/3930k/Opteron 6168x4/Ryzen 1600X/FX-8350
Motherboard X370 Taichi/ ASUS R3E/Asus P8P67 Pro/P9X79 Pro/EVGA X58 SLI 3/SuperMicro 4P
Cooling NH-D14/Phanteks/NH-U14S/H70/DeepCool/CM 212+ (x4)/NH-U14S/CM212
Memory 16GB GSkill TridentZ-3200 (1700X), 16GB GSkill FlareX-2400 (1600X),... various...., 4P- 16x1GB
Video Card(s) RX 580/HD 4670/HD 7770/HD 7770/HD 7770/onboard/HD 7770/onboard
Storage WD 500GB SSD/Seagate 2TB SSHD, everything else is Western Digital (mostly)
Display(s) Dell U2414H & 2409W / Dell 2208WFP (shared)
Case Silverstone FT01B/Source 530/Corsair 230T/Define XL R2/Silverstone FT05/Define R4/custom
Audio Device(s) on board (All)
Power Supply Corsair HX850/TX650/CS650M/X Gold 750/EVGA P2 850/X Gold 1050/HX650
Mouse Logitech G300s
Keyboard Thermaltake Challenger Prime (Great for $30!!!)
Software Win 7 Home 64 (Win 10 Pro 64)/Win Pro 64 or Ubuntu 12.04 LTS/14.04 LTS/17.04
Benchmark Scores Why sit on the Bench when you can get in the game and Crunch!!!
#36
It's all about cost, compliance, and bonuses- If a company can design something that saves them $10-20-50-100 per unit while maintaining certain established benchmarks and whatever regulatory compliance is applicable... they make more money/larger percentage of profit per unit and someone gets a fat bonus check.

Here's some info on that model:
http://www.dell.com/downloads/global/corporate/environ/comply/opti_3020_sff_d08s001.pdf
 

FordGT90Concept

"I go fast!1!11!1!"
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
20,906 (6.25/day)
Likes
10,000
Location
IA, USA
System Name BY-2015
Processor Intel Core i7-6700K (4 x 4.00 GHz) w/ HT and Turbo on
Motherboard MSI Z170A GAMING M7
Cooling Scythe Kotetsu
Memory 2 x Kingston HyperX DDR4-2133 8 GiB
Video Card(s) PowerColor PCS+ 390 8 GiB DVI + HDMI
Storage Crucial MX300 275 GB, Seagate 6 TB 7200 RPM
Display(s) Samsung SyncMaster T240 24" LCD (1920x1200 HDMI) + Samsung SyncMaster 906BW 19" LCD (1440x900 DVI)
Case Coolermaster HAF 932 w/ USB 3.0 5.25" bay
Audio Device(s) Realtek Onboard, Micca OriGen+
Power Supply Enermax Platimax 850w
Mouse SteelSeries Sensei RAW
Keyboard Tesoro Excalibur
Software Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
Benchmark Scores Faster than the tortoise; slower than the hare.
#37
I was hoping that would say what form factor that was (clearly not ATX) but alas, it does not. It does say the PSU is 80 Plus certified though.
 

Solaris17

Creator Solaris Utility DVD
Joined
Aug 16, 2005
Messages
19,262 (4.28/day)
Likes
6,072
Location
Florida
System Name Not named yet
Processor I5 7640x 5Ghz 24/7
Motherboard MSI x299 Tomahawk Arctic
Cooling Corsair H55
Memory 32GB Corsair DDR4 3000mhz
Video Card(s) Gigabyte 1080TI
Storage 2x Seagate 3TB Drives (RAID 0) 1x Seagate 256GB SSD 1x Adata 120GB SSD
Display(s) 3x AOC Q2577PWQ
Case Inwin 303 White (Thermaltake Ring 120mm Purple accent)
Audio Device(s) Onboard on Audio-Technica ATH-AG1
Power Supply Seasonic 1050W Snow
Mouse Roccat Tyon White
Keyboard Ducky Shine 6
Software Windows 10 x64 Pro
#38
I service alot of dells. Their caps are pretty horrid. The company they use has been the same since the early 2000s and I can say pretty much 90% of the dells I get have bad caps on the board. I cant say the PSUs have the same since im

A: uncertain what brand of caps are used and

B: since most dont seem to be made by dell


but at the end of the say its still on my bench


and I handle all types of PCs im not small business limited.
 
Joined
Apr 2, 2011
Messages
2,442 (1.00/day)
Likes
1,866
#39
I'm not getting it here. Neither side of this conversation seems grounded in reality.

Dell designing their own power connectors is not unexpected. They have two things to gain here, customer dependence and more control over their products. The dependence means control over replacement parts, and no need to deal with warranty claims if people replaced components in their PC with cheap knock-offs. The more interesting point is that Dell gets control over the products. They can set more aggressive standards for how power is delivered, and make trouble shooting the components easier (by integrating more components).

From a consumer and technician side, both of these goals mean no upgrades. While not a great compromise for all, the compromise is made because the primary customers (large companies buying multi-year service contracts on hardware) don't focus on continued life. This is exactly like the division of processors at Intel. There are plenty of reasons that the 2011 socket and 1155 socket both existed; it sucked that a 3700k wouldn't be a direct competitor to the 4820, but the differences were acceptable because price is an object to most people. People who hated multiple sockets could always go to AMD, though that jump had its own compromises.


I guess what I'm saying is the problem here isn't Dell. The real problem is that somebody bought a Dell, thinking they were buying a higher end system. Dell doesn't produce a lot of high end systems, they produce products focused on running for a set amount of time with minimum effort. Once that time is exceeded they could care less, because the bulk of their customer base has already shelled out for replacement hardware and a new service contract. While the business model isn't for everyone, it's the consumers lack of information that is the real problem.
 

newtekie1

Semi-Retired Folder
Joined
Nov 22, 2005
Messages
24,275 (5.51/day)
Likes
10,362
Location
Indiana, USA
Processor Intel Core i7 4790K@4.6GHz
Motherboard AsRock Z97 Extreme6
Cooling Corsair H100i
Memory 32GB Corsair DDR3-1866 9-10-9-27
Video Card(s) ASUS GTX960 STRIX @ 1500/1900
Storage 480GB Crucial MX200 + 2TB Seagate Solid State Hybrid Drive with 128GB OCZ Synapse SSD Cache
Display(s) QNIX QX2710 1440p@120Hz
Case Corsair 650D Black
Audio Device(s) Onboard is good enough for me
Power Supply Corsair HX850
Software Windows 10 Pro x64
#40
Just because they didn't waste money on the 80Plus certification doesn't mean it isn't efficient.
Actually, it does. They offer an 80+ Certified option, this PSU is not it.

Why don't you take apart a modern DELL power supply and post some pics? Then the community can be a judge of the quality of the supply.
I don't need to, I've replaced enough of them to know they have been using pretty poor quality units for some time now. This unit is no different, if it was of decent quality it would at least be 80+. Granted, at least it has ActivePFC, but I still don't expect it to last 10 years.

Who cares if it's not conservatively rated? That 290W PSU is more than enough for a PC that's never even going to consume more than 100W in typical usage they just can't put something that low in there because somebody will bitch about it in a public forum.
You missed my point entirely. My point was their old "good" units used to be overrated, they don't do that now, and this unit isn't a good unit.

By the way: 3-5 Dell power supplies a week? You're leaving out the important numbers: How many Dells? How many HP PSUs are failing vs how many HPs you manage? You're leaving out 90% of the relevant information and forming conclusions based on incorrect data.
None of those numbers matter, the point is that PSUs will no longer be easily replaceable with readily available parts. I'm not comparing quality to HP, I'm concerned with Dell using proprietary parts. HP PSUs can be replaced with standard PSUs, so I don't really care, and their failure rates don't apply to this thread.

I was hoping that would say what form factor that was (clearly not ATX) but alas, it does not. It does say the PSU is 80 Plus certified though.
The 80+ unit is optional, not standard. The unit in this machine is not one of the 80+ units offered.

Also, I'd like to point out the irony of the product page when they say "Help reduce maintenance time and cost"... Yeah, because having to buy an overpriced proprietary PSU and wait for it to ship to me is definitely reducing the time and cost compared to just pulling one off the shelf and slapping it in...

I'm not getting it here. Neither side of this conversation seems grounded in reality.

Dell designing their own power connectors is not unexpected. They have two things to gain here, customer dependence and more control over their products. The dependence means control over replacement parts, and no need to deal with warranty claims if people replaced components in their PC with cheap knock-offs. The more interesting point is that Dell gets control over the products. They can set more aggressive standards for how power is delivered, and make trouble shooting the components easier (by integrating more components).

From a consumer and technician side, both of these goals mean no upgrades. While not a great compromise for all, the compromise is made because the primary customers (large companies buying multi-year service contracts on hardware) don't focus on continued life. This is exactly like the division of processors at Intel. There are plenty of reasons that the 2011 socket and 1155 socket both existed; it sucked that a 3700k wouldn't be a direct competitor to the 4820, but the differences were acceptable because price is an object to most people. People who hated multiple sockets could always go to AMD, though that jump had its own compromises.


I guess what I'm saying is the problem here isn't Dell. The real problem is that somebody bought a Dell, thinking they were buying a higher end system. Dell doesn't produce a lot of high end systems, they produce products focused on running for a set amount of time with minimum effort. Once that time is exceeded they could care less, because the bulk of their customer base has already shelled out for replacement hardware and a new service contract. While the business model isn't for everyone, it's the consumers lack of information that is the real problem.
You're still trying to see the argument as an issue with upgrades. Upgrading the PC really has nothing to do with why I have a problem with this. Fixing the PC when the power supply dies several years down the road is the issue.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Apr 2, 2011
Messages
2,442 (1.00/day)
Likes
1,866
#41
You're still trying to see the argument as an issue with upgrades. Upgrading the PC really has nothing to do with why I have a problem with this. Fixing the PC when the power supply dies several years down the road is the issue.
You are still looking at this from one point of view. Upgrades and replacements are the same thing to Dell, once the warranty runs out. Both of them are replacing a stock part with something new. That isn't a reasonable thing for Dell internally.

Dell is driven to produce a product that lasts x number of years, before failing. That x is either equal to, or long than, the warranty period that they offer. If you buy an $800 PC, with $650 in parts you are expected to be paying $150 for the warranty service. Dell could theoretically provide you with two power supplies, assuming their cost was low, and still make money off of the $150 for the service contract. If you shave 25% off of the cost of the PSU, but only increase replacements of the PSUs (under warranty) by 20% you've made money. Dell doesn't give a crap about long term solutions, because that isn't what they are selling.

If I were to go out and buy an $800 dollar PC without any warranty I'd demand quality interchangeable parts be used (so that I could service the computer myself). That makes perfect sense, as I'd be taking maintenance and upkeep responsibilities onto myself. Dell has targeted a completely different consumer. These consumers need reliability, or an absolute minimum of down-time. These consumers pay more, so that any problems which arise will be dealt with.


In short, imagine a triangle. At the intersection point you've got excellent service, low cost, and extended usage. Dell focuses on the low cost and excellent service, while ignoring the long life. Customized PCs and boutique dealers focus on excellent service and extended life. Building your own PC allows for low costs and extended usage. You can only have two of the three at most, and Dell just isn't designing systems to run for a decade. I'm not sure why this is a point of contention. As a tech, becoming angry because a customer bought a Dell and thought it would last a decade is counter productive. Consumers need to educate themselves better, because Dell doesn't hide the fact that their systems have a very finite lifetime calculated into their construction.
 

tigger

I'm the only one
Joined
Mar 20, 2006
Messages
10,476 (2.44/day)
Likes
1,673
System Name Black to the Core MKIV
Processor Intel I7 6700k
Motherboard Asus Z170 Pro Gaming socket 1151
Cooling NZXT Kraken X61 280mm radiator
Memory 2x8gb Corsair vengeance LPX 2400 DDR4
Video Card(s) XFX Radeon R9 290 4gb ddr5
Storage Patriot Blast 120gb ssd Boot and WD10EADX-22TDHB0 1TB Data
Display(s) Dell 2408WFP 24" 1920x1200
Case Nzxt IS 340
Audio Device(s) Asus xonar dsx pci-e
Power Supply Corsair CX750
Mouse Logitech G502
Software Win 10 Pro x64
#42
Actually, it does. They offer an 80+ Certified option, this PSU is not it.



I don't need to, I've replaced enough of them to know they have been using pretty poor quality units for some time now. This unit is no different, if it was of decent quality it would at least be 80+. Granted, at least it has ActivePFC, but I still don't expect it to last 10 years.



You missed my point entirely. My point was their old "good" units used to be overrated, they don't do that now, and this unit isn't a good unit.



None of those numbers matter, the point is that PSUs will no longer be easily replaceable with readily available parts. I'm not comparing quality to HP, I'm concerned with Dell using proprietary parts. HP PSUs can be replaced with standard PSUs, so I don't really care, and their failure rates don't apply to this thread.



The 80+ unit is optional, not standard. The unit in this machine is not one of the 80+ units offered.

Also, I'd like to point out the irony of the product page when they say "Help reduce maintenance time and cost"... Yeah, because having to buy an overpriced proprietary PSU and wait for it to ship to me is definitely reducing the time and cost compared to just pulling one off the shelf and slapping it in...



You're still trying to see the argument as an issue with upgrades. Upgrading the PC really has nothing to do with why I have a problem with this. Fixing the PC when the power supply dies several years down the road is the issue.
I one took out and used a really nice 750watt Dell N750p psu, came out of a xps 720 one of the ones with the big metal case, it was a good psu and is still been used today.
 

Mindweaver

Moderato®™
Staff member
Joined
Apr 16, 2009
Messages
6,572 (2.08/day)
Likes
3,906
Location
Charleston, SC
System Name Sechs / EyeSeven
Processor i7 5820k @ 4.5ghz / i7 2600k @ 4.0Ghz
Motherboard X99S GAMING 7 / ASRock Z68 Extreme3 Gen3
Cooling CORSAIR Hydro Series H100i Extreme / Stock cooler... H50 leaked!..
Memory G.Skill DDR4 2800 16GB 4x4GB / G.Skill DDR3 1600 8gb 2x4GB
Video Card(s) PNY Quadro K2000 / MSI GTX 970 GAMING 4Gb
Storage Samsung 850 PRO 256GB SSD /Intel 240gb, corsair 120gb SSD, 3x 1 tb s storage
Display(s) 2x Acer G276HL 27" 1080p / 3x Acer 22" Nvidia surround
Case Phanteks “Enthoo Pro series”/ Cooler Master Storm Scout
Audio Device(s) Azalia Realtek ALC1150 / SB X-Fi Gamer
Power Supply Corsair CXM CX600M / Corsair 600w
Mouse Razer DeathAdder Chroma / Razer DeathAdder
Keyboard Razer BlackWidow Ultimate /
Software Windows 10 Pro x64 / Windows 10 Pro x64
#43
I don't see why that's so hard to believe buddy. I worked for a very large company for 13 years that only used Dell with Gold Support (I left the company because I was tired of traveling and relocating). Now I'm the CIO of 2 smaller companies for the past 7 years, and I don't use Dell or any other company like Dell. Not because they are bad, but just not cost effective for our business model. I have everything done in house.

I'm still friends with their current CIO, and they still use Dell with Gold support. The last mother board I replaced on one of the Dells there was a Optiplex GX280 and it only took me 5 minutes to swap it out. That's power down install and power up and ready to use. I can't advise any small companies or personal use to have Gold support, but I can say if you have gold support then you really have not worries with there proprietary parts. The service center was about 30 minutes away. I could call the service ticket in and they would hand deliver the parts the same day. They would either replace it or if I had time I would have them leave the part (Because I enjoy replace it myself as well). I'm sure someone will disagree, but I'm just sharing my experience. :toast:
 
Joined
Oct 7, 2008
Messages
1,888 (0.56/day)
Likes
142
System Name The Beast
Processor Intel Core i3-2100 @ 3.1GHz
Motherboard Asus P8P67 LE
Cooling Stock
Memory 4GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 @ 1600MHz
Video Card(s) 1GB Sapphire Radeon HD4650 Ultimate Edition
Storage 60GB Corsair Force LE, 1TB Samsung SpinPoint F1, 500GB Seagate
Display(s) 22" Samsung T220HD & 19" Acer X193W
Case Corsair Obsidian 750D
Power Supply Corsair HX650W
Software Windows 7 Ultimate x64
#44
Wow, every single PC I've EVER worked on, from 10 year old beige generic PCs, AGP Alienwares to everything in between has had 4 RAM slots, even every DDR1 machine I worked on. I worked in a PC repair shop for 2 months, I hated Dell the most. Even on their more modern machines like a Vostro the HDDs are screwed to the side of the case. Welcome to every single Dell EVER. POS shit PSU, although this propriety one takes the piss. Sure you don't need to put a more powerful one in, but at the very least putting a more reliable one in makes sense. Especially in a business environment when long hours and reliability are needed.

Propritery costs money. Not only that, they seem to change their shit every few years. Just stick to normal shit FFS. Having said that, my 230w Dell PSU still works after like 7 years. I use it as a back up. The cables, of course, are short as balls because it's ONLY meant for their shitty ass boards.
 

qubit

Overclocked quantum bit
Joined
Dec 6, 2007
Messages
14,547 (3.98/day)
Likes
8,052
Location
Quantum Well UK
System Name Quantumville™
Processor Intel Core i7-2700K at stock (hits 5 gees+ easily)
Motherboard Asus P8Z68-V PRO/GEN3
Cooling Noctua NH-D14
Memory 16GB (4 x 4GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 PC3-12800 C9 1600MHz)
Video Card(s) Zotac GTX 1080 AMP! Extreme Edition
Storage Samsung 850 Pro 256GB | WD Green 4TB
Display(s) BenQ XL2720Z | Asus VG278HE (both 27", 144Hz, 3D Vision 2, 1080p)
Case Cooler Master HAF 922
Audio Device(s) Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Fatal1ty PCIe
Power Supply Corsair HX 850W v1
Software Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
#45
Wow, every single PC I've EVER worked on, from 10 year old beige generic PCs, AGP Alienwares to everything in between has had 4 RAM slots, even every DDR1 machine I worked on. I worked in a PC repair shop for 2 months, I hated Dell the most. Even on their more modern machines like a Vostro the HDDs are screwed to the side of the case. Welcome to every single Dell EVER. POS shit PSU, although this propriety one takes the piss. Sure you don't need to put a more powerful one in, but at the very least putting a more reliable one in makes sense. Especially in a business environment when long hours and reliability are needed.

Propritery costs money. Not only that, they seem to change their shit every few years. Just stick to normal shit FFS. Having said that, my 230w Dell PSU still works after like 7 years. I use it as a back up. The cables, of course, are short as balls because it's ONLY meant for their shitty ass boards.
No, unfortunately not every mobo had 4 memory slots and I'm talking about decent ones, too.

Back in 2003 in the AMD socket A days many enthusiast boards came with only three memory slots, such as the excellent Abit AN7. I didn't like it either. Check out this review to see this: http://hexus.net/tech/reviews/mainboard/681-abit-an7/?page=3

I agree that the cheap construction of modern Dell PCs and their deliberate proprietary lockins are bad. HP does the same thing unfortunately however, but at least with better build quality.
 

newtekie1

Semi-Retired Folder
Joined
Nov 22, 2005
Messages
24,275 (5.51/day)
Likes
10,362
Location
Indiana, USA
Processor Intel Core i7 4790K@4.6GHz
Motherboard AsRock Z97 Extreme6
Cooling Corsair H100i
Memory 32GB Corsair DDR3-1866 9-10-9-27
Video Card(s) ASUS GTX960 STRIX @ 1500/1900
Storage 480GB Crucial MX200 + 2TB Seagate Solid State Hybrid Drive with 128GB OCZ Synapse SSD Cache
Display(s) QNIX QX2710 1440p@120Hz
Case Corsair 650D Black
Audio Device(s) Onboard is good enough for me
Power Supply Corsair HX850
Software Windows 10 Pro x64
#46
I don't see why that's so hard to believe buddy. I worked for a very large company for 13 years that only used Dell with Gold Support (I left the company because I was tired of traveling and relocating). Now I'm the CIO of 2 smaller companies for the past 7 years, and I don't use Dell or any other company like Dell. Not because they are bad, but just not cost effective for our business model. I have everything done in house.

I'm still friends with their current CIO, and they still use Dell with Gold support. The last mother board I replaced on one of the Dells there was a Optiplex GX280 and it only took me 5 minutes to swap it out. That's power down install and power up and ready to use. I can't advise any small companies or personal use to have Gold support, but I can say if you have gold support then you really have not worries with there proprietary parts. The service center was about 30 minutes away. I could call the service ticket in and they would hand deliver the parts the same day. They would either replace it or if I had time I would have them leave the part (Because I enjoy replace it myself as well). I'm sure someone will disagree, but I'm just sharing my experience. :toast:
So because you work for one large company that has gold support, all companies that buy Dell must have it as well. Get real. There are far more small business in this country than large corporations, and small business don't have support contracts with Dell.


You are still looking at this from one point of view. Upgrades and replacements are the same thing to Dell, once the warranty runs out. Both of them are replacing a stock part with something new. That isn't a reasonable thing for Dell internally.
Of course it isn't, I see Dell's side, allowing the part to be replaced is a new PC sale lost. That's why they do it, and that is why it pisses me off.
 

Mindweaver

Moderato®™
Staff member
Joined
Apr 16, 2009
Messages
6,572 (2.08/day)
Likes
3,906
Location
Charleston, SC
System Name Sechs / EyeSeven
Processor i7 5820k @ 4.5ghz / i7 2600k @ 4.0Ghz
Motherboard X99S GAMING 7 / ASRock Z68 Extreme3 Gen3
Cooling CORSAIR Hydro Series H100i Extreme / Stock cooler... H50 leaked!..
Memory G.Skill DDR4 2800 16GB 4x4GB / G.Skill DDR3 1600 8gb 2x4GB
Video Card(s) PNY Quadro K2000 / MSI GTX 970 GAMING 4Gb
Storage Samsung 850 PRO 256GB SSD /Intel 240gb, corsair 120gb SSD, 3x 1 tb s storage
Display(s) 2x Acer G276HL 27" 1080p / 3x Acer 22" Nvidia surround
Case Phanteks “Enthoo Pro series”/ Cooler Master Storm Scout
Audio Device(s) Azalia Realtek ALC1150 / SB X-Fi Gamer
Power Supply Corsair CXM CX600M / Corsair 600w
Mouse Razer DeathAdder Chroma / Razer DeathAdder
Keyboard Razer BlackWidow Ultimate /
Software Windows 10 Pro x64 / Windows 10 Pro x64
#47
So because you work for one large company that has gold support, all companies that buy Dell must have it as well. Get real. There are far more small business in this country than large corporations, and small business don't have support contracts with Dell.
Wow, so touchy.. lol I think it's funny how you twist my words.. and I never said "all", I said most that only buy Dell use their support. I care not to argue with you, the matter doesn't really spark my interest enough to argue over. Like I said I was just sharing my experience (you act as if I don't know anyone out side of the companies I've worked for... you keep beating your drum someone will listen). I also, agreed with you on smaller companies, but there again you are only looking at what you want to see of what I said. Just remember jealousy will rot your heart out buddy. ;)
 
Joined
Jun 28, 2012
Messages
245 (0.12/day)
Likes
138
System Name Main Pc | Xeon rig
Processor Intel Core i5-4670 @3.6Ghz | Intel Xeon X5675 @stock
Motherboard Gigabyte GA-Z87-HD3 | Sabertooth X58
Cooling Noctua NH-U9B SE2 | Noctua NH-D14
Memory 16GB Crucial OC @ 2133mhz | 12 GB Various
Video Card(s) MSI R9 390 | MSI R7970 TF III 3GD5 OC BE (Bios mod 1081 mV)
Storage 120GB Samsung Evo\ 4TB WD HDD | 120GB Samsung Evo
Case NZXT H440 | Fractal Design Define R5
Power Supply Seasonic 650 Watt| Nexus 450
Software Windows 10 Pro x64 | Windows Server 2016 Datacenter x64
#48
I've seen HP PC's being even worse. It had a dc jack on the motherboard and a power adapter :banghead::laugh: When it blows, you probably need to order a original psu from them. in other words: expensive
 
Joined
Dec 9, 2013
Messages
910 (0.62/day)
Likes
280
System Name BlueKnight
Processor Intel Celeron G1610 @ 2.60GHz
Motherboard Gigabyte GA-H61M-S2PH (rev. 1.0)
Memory 1x 4GB DDR3 @ 1333MHz (Kingston KVR13N9S8/4)
Video Card(s) 1x NVIDIA GeForce 9500GT 512MB (Zotac ZT-95TEH2P-FSL)
Storage 1x 160GB (Western Digital WD1600AAJS-75M0A0)
Display(s) 1x 20" 1600x900 (PHILIPS 200VW9FBJ/78)
Case μATX Case (Generic)
Power Supply 300W (Generic)
Software GNU/Linux Mint 17
#49
you probably need to order a original psu from them.
Ah, now you understand their strategy. I wouldn't support any company that does such thing...
 

Frick

Fishfaced Nincompoop
Joined
Feb 27, 2006
Messages
14,878 (3.45/day)
Likes
5,411
System Name A dancer in your disco of fire
Processor i3 4130 3.4Ghz
Motherboard MSI B85M-E45
Cooling Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo
Memory 4 x 4GB Crucial Ballistix Sport 1400Mhz
Video Card(s) Asus GTX 760 DCU2OC 2GB
Storage Crucial BX100 120GB | WD Blue 1TB x 2
Display(s) BenQ GL2450HT
Case AeroCool DS Cube White
Power Supply Cooler Master G550M
Mouse Intellimouse Explorer 3.0
Keyboard Dell SK-3205
Software Windows 10 Pro
#50
Ah, now you understand their strategy. I wouldn't support any company that does such thing...
Then you should probably get off the internet. ;)