Epic game store is epic at spying on you

[R-T-B]

That probably applies more in a philosophical way, the plebs are more or less powerless.

I subscribe to the idea they are only powerless when the majority of them are content to be so, but yes, this is encroaching into philosophy. Either way my point stands. Want to change it? Doing anything is better than doing nothing and acting all "oh, we're powerless, shut up you wankers."

 

[rtwjunkie]

epic ceo quote


valve quote


Now you can say "improving" But the ceo says fix.
you can say its not spying and stealing data. But epic's ceo and valve say it is.

Why they also has to monitor AND report what apps you are running is beyond me.
They CLAIM its to prevent pushing updates when the system is in use. But there is no reason to send that data any where to stop a update.
personally have not looked in to that any further so il leave that as it is.

What you want to be true and what is true arent always the same. And when they have already admitted culpability "after being caught" but then Deny any other wrong doing due to lack of any evidence. it all just tends to stink. I know the world is not black and white, but some things even the slightest shade of grey is bad enough.

like i said though everything is spying on you. But epic just had to go about it in a manner that skipped a purpous made api Which just so happened to also give them access to private user data that they should not be able to access, and not only that they also did it without asking for user permission which as far as im aware is 100% exactly what the GDPR is there to fine them for.

p.s
I only started using steam 4 years ago because it did suck. ( i have been a member of this forum longer than i have used steam) so 15 years of sucking and me not using it and i survived just fine without it.
Epic though. well i cant forse me using it

Get something straight bud, I’m not defending Epic. I am not saying I don’t want this or that to be true. I am on the side of evenhandedness and fair assessments. I try to give every side a fair shake.

You want to talk spying? Windows does it. Steam does it. Origin does it. GoogleBing does it. Most online retailers do it to some degree. You picking out Epic as some evil titan is comical. In fact agreement is likely given while people skip through the EULA when installing Epic.

What I am saying is that people complaining about the quality of the Epic launcher and complaining that there might be some spying elements (most debunked by @FordGT90Concept) have extremely short memories.

Most of this seems to be brought on by people still being butthurt by Epic gaining a Metro exclusive for a year due to their deal (last minute?) with Deep Silver. I’m not defending Epic. I’m defending fairness, and treating them just like each of the other game launchers have been judged.

 

[R-T-B]

you still on that
its been explained in great detail that it was not spying on you

Depends what you mean by spying. It wasn't looking at fiddler. It WAS querying processes but that could just be anticheat. In that case any anticheat spies on it's user, really.

 

[Shambles1980]

You agree to the EULA when you install it: https://www.epicgames.com/store/en-US/eula

Specifically: https://www.epicgames.com/site/en-US/privacypolicy

Eula does not count under GDPR, neither is it nor has it ever been a legally binding contract, and it has never and will never be able to supersede any form of law.
and that does not even say it will be taking private information from files friends lists from other launchers, or potentially stealing your log in keys for the launcher they are trying to be being direct rivals too..
so even If a EULA was legally binding, and covered them under the GDPR. The eula doesnt say its gonna be doing what it was caught doing And so they are now "fixing" it

Get something straight bud, I’m not defending Epic. I am not saying I don’t want this or that to be true. I am on the side of evenhandedness and fair assessments. I try to give every side a fair shake.

You want to talk spying? Windows does it. Steam does it. Origin does it. GoogleBing does it. Most online retailers do it to some degree. You picking out Epic as some evil titan is comical.

What I am saying is that people complaining about the quality of the Epic launcher and complaining that there might be some spying elements (most debunked by @FordGT90Concept) have extremely short memories.

Most of this seems to be brought on by people still being butthurt by Epic gaining a Metro exclusive for a year due to their deal (last minute?) with Deep Silver. I’m not defending Epic. I’m defending fairness, and treating them just like each of the other game launchers have been judged.

its easier to be even handed when you do some research..
i have said multiple time in this thread alone everything spies on you.
but you chose to call it "improve" when even epic's ceo say its fixing Thats not being even handed thats being the devils advocate which is not a game you should play without 1st making sure you know what deck you are playing with.

 

[rtwjunkie]

Eula does not count under GDPR, neither is it a legally binding contract, and Neither does that say it will be taking private information from files friends lists from other launchers, or potentially stealing your log in keys for the launcher they are trying to be being direct rivals to



its easier to be even handed when you do some research..
i have said multiple time in this thread alone everything spies on you.
but you chose to call it "improve" when even epic's ceo say its fixing Thats not being even handed thats being the devils advocate which is not a game you should play without 1st making sure you know what deck you are playing with.

If you improve something then it likely wasn’t right in the first place. They ALSO listed many IMPROVEMENTS that will make their launcher a little more modern. You say you watched Steam for years before joining. Then if that is so, you surely remember that many many people were not happy with them for many things, from not working right to spying. Guess they never needed to be “fixed” either, huh?

 

[R-T-B]

If you improve something then it likely wasn’t right in the first place. They ALSO listed many IMPROVEMENTS that will make their launcher a little more modern. You say you watched Steam for years before joining. Then if that is so, you surely remember that many many people were not happy with them for many things, from not working right to spying. Guess they never needed to be “fixed” either, huh?

Oh god, as a privacy advocate the early steam hate was unreal.

It's things like this that make legit attacks on privacy harder to defend against. Because I gurantee you someone will point at this later as an example of how "we just whine about crap that ends up working out just fine"

 

[Shambles1980]

Never remember steam needing to fix the fact that they were accessing my game-spy data files that contained my login details and then sent them back to their servers without asking for permission.. (because it never happened)

I remember them "improving" by adding friends support, the ability to share games.. and general stability issues. Thats an improvement.

Not accessing files that contain private data and logon information for a direct rival Isnt something that should ever need "improving" because it should never happen and the fact that it did and you want to defend it is disturbing.

sure you can say:
"well jimmy stopped stealing my car and crashing it in to baby's. that's an improvement"
but then you have taken the stance of arguing over the semantics of the case rather than the issue which means you already know enough for us to stop having this conversation, as you will only be taking a deliberatly contrary stance for the sake of saving face.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Eula does not count under GDPR, neither is it nor has it ever been a legally binding contract, and it has never and will never be able to supersede any form of law.

As long as the terms aren't unlawful (usually an uphill climb for the challenger), courts generally uphold the EULA as an enforceable contract.

The only reason why GDPR exists is so EU has another way to fine corporations.

and that does not even say it will be taking private information from files friends lists from other launchers, or potentially stealing your log in keys for the launcher they are trying to be being direct rivals too..

Copying doesn't constitute theft.

The eula doesnt say its gonna be doing what it was caught doing And so they are now "fixing" it

Many points of the EULA can be stretched to reading information from Steam.

It's very possible that reading localconfig.vdf is associated with an experimental feature in EGL that shouldn't have been published yet (e.g. assistance in populating friends list) that wasn't disabled in the public release. Still, not overly concerned about it because I don't care that Epic Games has my friend list, the games I own, and the last time I played them.

 

[R-T-B]

Never remember steam needing to fix the fact that they were accessing my game-spy data files that contained my login details and then sent them back to their servers without asking for permission.. (because it never happened)

Probably because no one ever cared about game-spy enough to bother. If they had a reason to, I have no doubt they would've done some kind of integration attempt.

The only reason why GDPR exists is so EU has another way to fine corporations.

That's one way to look at it. I choose to think it has something to do with sending a message we have the right to own our own data, but I know, I'm such a frigin hippie.

 

[rtwjunkie]

the fact that it did and you want to defend it is disturbing.

Find it disturbing all you want. I am a huge privacy advocate, but I am also a realist. I know life is extremely hard to live in the modern world if we try to push total privacy on our lives. I also know that many people that skip right through the EULA’s for every piece of software they install are some of the first to cry about their lack of privacy vs the big bad corporation.

 

[Shambles1980]

Copying doesn't constitute theft.

collect all the bank account information you can copy it down nice and safe, credit card numbers, and so on. and see what the police think about you copying and storing peoples bank info without permission Even if you never use it for anything other than decoration.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

collect all the bank account information you can copy it down nice and safe, credit card numbers, and so on. and see what the police think about you copying and storing peoples bank info without permission Even if you never use it for anything other than decoration.

Not theft until something is stolen. In your example, funds withdrawn.

localconfig.vdf doesn't have any information of that sort anyway.

 

[moproblems99]

Not theft until something is stolen. In your example, funds withdrawn.

Even that doesn't matter in my locality. My CC got popped and the police said they would do nothing because my CC company returned the money so nothing was stolen from me. LOL

Also, if we want to get semantic, TPU is tracking everything you do as well seeing as how they have Google Analytics running. So, by that measure, TPU is helping Google track and build a profile on you.

 

[Super XP]

Get something straight bud, I’m not defending Epic. I am not saying I don’t want this or that to be true. I am on the side of evenhandedness and fair assessments. I try to give every side a fair shake.

You want to talk spying? Windows does it. Steam does it. Origin does it. GoogleBing does it. Most online retailers do it to some degree. You picking out Epic as some evil titan is comical. In fact agreement is likely given while people skip through the EULA when installing Epic.

What I am saying is that people complaining about the quality of the Epic launcher and complaining that there might be some spying elements (most debunked by @FordGT90Concept) have extremely short memories.

Most of this seems to be brought on by people still being butthurt by Epic gaining a Metro exclusive for a year due to their deal (last minute?) with Deep Silver. I’m not defending Epic. I’m defending fairness, and treating them just like each of the other game launchers have been judged.

Its all good. After the lack luster Metro Exodus sales I'm sure this will end up being a mistake not to allow the game access from both Steam and Epic.

 

[rtwjunkie]

Its all good. After the lack luster Metro Exodus sales I'm sure this will end up being a mistake not to allow the game access from both Steam and Epic.

It would be nice to see some actual sales figures.

 

[Super XP]

It would be nice to see some actual sales figures.

Agreed.
I was just speculating seeing how Epic doesn't have a large enough reach as Steam has.

 

[moproblems99]

I was just speculating seeing how Epic doesn't have a large enough reach as Steam has.

Can you explain how Steam has more reach?

 

[Super XP]

Can you explain how Steam has more reach?

I rather not give such information out when it's quite readily available online.
Steam has over 90 Million monthly active users. The entire Metro Series was launched on Steam.

 

[moproblems99]

I rather not give such information out when it's quite readily available online.
Steam has over 90 Million monthly active users. The entire Metro Series was launched on Steam.

Are you saying that Epic can't reach these 90 million people? Like those 90 million somehow have no idea that Metro Exodus still exists and is for sale?

 

[Super XP]

Are you saying that Epic can't reach these 90 million people? Like those 90 million somehow have no idea that Metro Exodus still exists and is for sale?

I've already answered this question. You are saying Epic can't reach these 90 million people. I said no such thing.
Anyhow, Epic's is nowhere near the pull Steam has nor does it offer anything better than Steam offers. Perhaps sometime in the future it will match or exceed Steam, till that time, Steam is the better platform that offers the most games and is more stable.

And I'll throw this out there, the sentiments of over 37K people and climbing.

They have terrible security, terrible customer service, the games are more expensive due to epics regional pricing, you cant play games offline, no social features like chat, no screenshots, no controller support, they broke EU laws, they have really scummy tactics.
There's no achievements, no cloud saves, no game forums, Epic makes you pay for a transaction fee when buying games, they pay for exclusive rights to try and force you to use their store, they also refuse refunds even if you meet criteria. Then there's no users reviews, no linux support.
This just shows that Epic only cares about the money and nothing else. They're trying to compete with steam but are failing. Even Valve thinks its unfair. Get your store together Epic Games.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

I rather not give such information out when it's quite readily available online.
Steam has over 90 Million monthly active users. The entire Metro Series was launched on Steam.

Fortnite had 200 million players (all platforms) in November 2018:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/746230/fortnite-players/
Guess how they play on Windows...

On top of that, all Unreal Engine 4 developers have EpicGamesLauncher installed because that's what keeps the dev tools up to date.

 

[moproblems99]

I've already answered this question. You are saying Epic can't reach these 90 million people. I said no such thing.

I was just speculating seeing how Epic doesn't have a large enough reach as Steam has.

You clearly said Epic doesn't have the reach. Which is silly. Epic has the same reach as every other store on the internet - which is everyone that has internet access. Now, some people may not buy Metro because of whatever reason they choose but it has nothing to do with not having the reach.

And since you are talking about Metro, which is a single player game, the only feature on that list that matters is cloud saves.

Fortnite had 200 million players (all platforms) in November 2018:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/746230/fortnite-players/
Guess how they play on Windows...

Precisely.

 

[Super XP]

You clearly said Epic doesn't have the reach. Which is silly. Epic has the same reach as every other store on the internet - which is everyone that has internet access. Now, some people may not buy Metro because of whatever reason they choose but it has nothing to do with not having the reach.

And since you are talking about Metro, which is a single player game, the only feature on that list that matters is cloud saves.



Precisely.

Total number of registered players? That can't decrease correct? lol. I'll guarantee you won't see 200 million active monthly users
Once again you misunderstand my simple point. How many Metro games were launched on Epic Store? I know of 4 that were released on Steam. Metro 2033 (Redux) and Metro Last Light (Redux). My point is those that purchased these previous games are most likely going to purchase a 3rd installment. Does Epic have that reach? I don't think so, but seeing the bad publicity they've gotten lately its basically free advertising for them. Anyhow, who in the right mind would install something so incomplete and incompetent is beyond me.

 

[moproblems99]

Total number of registered players? That can't decrease correct? lol. I'll guarantee you won't see 200 million active monthly users
Once again you misunderstand my simple point. How many Metro games were launched on Epic Store? I know of 4 that were released on Steam. Metro 2033 (Redux) and Metro Last Light (Redux). My point is those that purchased these previous games are most likely going to purchase a 3rd installment. Does Epic have that reach? I don't think so, but seeing the bad publicity they've gotten lately its basically free advertising for them. Anyhow, who in the right mind would install something so incomplete and incompetent is beyond me.

If it allows me to play the game, it has served its purpose. How is it any different than 'ye olde' days when you had to install via a cd and every game had its own launcher? It isn't. I'm sure people aren't going to buy it until it comes to Steam. More power to them for standing up for what they believe in. However, I find it silly they aren't buying it because a single player game doesn't have a friends list. Just seems...silly. But, that is their prerogative.

I agree Metro will not have 200 million users. It isn't going to get 90 million on Steam either. I'd also bet that the majority of players will just play the game because they don't give two flying farts what store it is on.

 

[Super XP]

If it allows me to play the game, it has served its purpose. How is it any different than 'ye olde' days when you had to install via a cd and every game had its own launcher? It isn't. I'm sure people aren't going to buy it until it comes to Steam. More power to them for standing up for what they believe in. However, I find it silly they aren't buying it because a single player game doesn't have a friends list. Just seems...silly. But, that is their prerogative.

I agree Metro will not have 200 million users. It isn't going to get 90 million on Steam either. I'd also bet that the majority of players just will just play the game because they don't give two flying farts what store it is on.

I truly hope an alternative Game Store comes out to directly compete with STEAM. Because we need fair competition. Epic may be that special storefront one day, but it has a long way to go. I just don't like the tactics used to remove the game off Steam and exclusively offer it only on Epic. That rubs me and many others the wrong way. Anyhow,
I know Metro is a single player game, that is actually the reason why I play the previous 2. I am not too fond about MMO, though some like L4D2 I don't mind, its fun and most of my friends are on it.