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Frame Latency with GTX Titan?

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#51
I agree. I've been talking about issues like this for years. Literally. Now people are taking it seriously.

The big issue is that there is not a lot of public documentation from AMD or Nvidia about what's really going on. I was complaining about 60+ FPS having stutter issues since 2900XT. I have a video of it up on my youtube channel, even. The number of people that said they saw no issue is really amazing to me.

Here we are now, many years later, and it's still problem, but more people see it. There's still tonnes of people who do not. To me, it's no different than some people getting motion sickness. And for me, that's what this problem causes, literal physical sickness. So it's a big issue for me.

Some drivers are worse than others. There's been times when I haven't been able to play BF3 for more than 10 minutes or so...turn off Crossfire, and it doesn't bother me.

They have warnings about games and flashing lights causing problems for people, and I'm one of those people that is subject to a form of that.
Is this like the conversation we had a while about the fluidity of the game and how sometimes you see the "smoothness" but its rare? Or is that more of a refresh rate thing? Because I still haven't found the config to hit that sweet spot ever! Its very random.
 
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#52
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#53
All this latency thing, dunno, I can tell you, I have never had a smoother gaming experience before, but that's completely subjective, I'm a dentist, not an optometrist or IT engineer...

First of all, latency issues on single GPU cards have never been brought up before, to me this new metric is a way for websites to create controversy, and generate more hits, I mean, we got to the point were over 100 FPS became feasible on even medium range GPUs at mainstream resolutions for most games out there, there had to be a way to make all this hardware reviews less boring, right?

Second, this is almost exclusively a driver issue, as shown by AMD, they were criticized for the latency on crossfire on GCN cards, (and this is true for all multi gpu setups, either nVidia or AMD, both have issues depending on the game being tested) and have addressed this issue with subsequent driver releases as witnessed by some of you guys here. So, let's say a few sites think a single Titan has latency issues (and come on, 3.3ms latency? Are you really able to perceive that? Like I said, I'm not an optometrist or engineer, but use some common sense) well, news flash, this is the first release driver for a brand new card, even different websites post different numbers, it could all be related to the test systems, background processes and OS like cadaveca said for all we know...

Third, and this coming from someone who's had multiple card systems, for many years, adding more cards to any given setup will only make matters worse, this is true for both Nvidia and AMD cards, scaling will never be perfect on current technology, and increasing the number of GPUs will only diminish the return in performance the more cards you add, trust me, I've gone all the way to 4-way 680s in SLI, and found the experience to be lackluster. IMHO, dual cards is the sweet spot, and adding more cards will not return your investment in terms of performance and smoothness.

As for ppl questioning the purpose investing on Titan, if you question it, don't do it then, no one is forcing anyone to upgrade, in my own case I had to, because gaming on multiple monitors with 680s (2, 3 or 4 cards) just wasn't smooth anymore, but your case may be different, YMMV, and I would really recommend the upgrade on a per case basis, do not make the mistake of making a universal recommendation, without taking all factors into account.
 
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#54
All this latency thing, dunno, I can tell you, I have never had a smoother gaming experience before, but that's completely subjective, I'm a dentist, not an optometrist or IT engineer...

First of all, latency issues on single GPU cards have never been brought up before, to me this new metric is a way for websites to create controversy, and generate more hits, I mean, we got to the point were over 100 FPS became feasible on even medium range GPUs at mainstream resolutions for most games out there, there had to be a way to make all this hardware reviews less boring, right?

Second, this is almost exclusively a driver issue, as shown by AMD, they were criticized for the latency on crossfire on GCN cards, (and this is true for all multi gpu setups, either nVidia or AMD, both have issues depending on the game being tested) and have addressed this issue with subsequent driver releases as witnessed by some of you guys here. So, let's say a few sites think a single Titan has latency issues (and come on, 3.3ms latency? Are you really able to perceive that? Like I said, I'm not an optometrist or engineer, but use some common sense) well, news flash, this is the first release driver for a brand new card, even different websites post different numbers, it could all be related to the test systems, background processes and OS like cadaveca said for all we know...

Third, and this coming from someone who's had multiple card systems, for many years, adding more cards to any given setup will only make matters worse, this is true for both Nvidia and AMD cards, scaling will never be perfect on current technology, and increasing the number of GPUs will only diminish the return in performance the more cards you add, trust me, I've gone all the way to 4-way 680s in SLI, and found the experience to be lackluster. IMHO, dual cards is the sweet spot, and adding more cards will not return your investment in terms of performance and smoothness.

As for ppl questioning the purpose investing on Titan, if you question it, don't do it then, no one is forcing anyone to upgrade, in my own case I had to, because gaming on multiple monitors with 680s (2, 3 or 4 cards) just wasn't smooth anymore, but your case may be different, YMMV, and I would really recommend the upgrade on a per case basis, do not make the mistake of making a universal recommendation, without taking all factors into account.
That's not 100% true. I have seen and heard of latency issues on a single GPU before. Hell I've experienced them first hand. Maybe because I'm an artist I notice the little idiosyncrasies of FPS but I do notice them. The concern is legit and established AFAIK.
 

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#55
Mailman and Dave are not alone I agree with both,

having owned 4870x2 5850 xfire 6970 xfire 6950 xfire i finally switched to a single 7970 even then in some cases things still didnt feel smooth. the 7970 by itself definitely felt smoother than any xfire setup I had used previously But as always its a per game basis. That said I have recently switched to a heavily overclocked GTX 670 and honestly I am happier with how games feel now than I was before. Bethesda titles still run like ass (honestly dont know why we use them as a frame latency test the engine is STILL bugged at 64hz which means every so many frames it auto drops a frame when not running at a perfect 64hz thus all the stutter fixes including the latest which is a DLL fix used by Script Extenders)

Regardless there is a problem both hardware and driver that causes this issue but shoddy game code makes it more pronounced.

I refuse to go multi gpu again. Ill stick to buying single gpu and just update yearly selling off the older card and grabbing a new one for $100 out of pocket.
 
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#56
All your arguments are wasted on me frankly. Your opinions are dull and worthless and...

WHOOOOOPPPPSSSSSS!

I just ordered a Titan and a waterblock. :roll:

If this isn't smooth as silk, I'm going to fly over to the US and make y'alll eat it.

Now, time to take photos of my beautiful 7970's for the B/S/T forum...
 
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#57
If this isn't smooth as silk, I'm going to fly over to the US and make y'alll eat it....
Wear a red dress when you come over. Something pretty and not slutty.
 
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#58
Wear a red dress when you come over. Something pretty and not slutty.
Hmm, PVC or leather dress.... Anyway, this is filthy, i refuse to mind raped by you of all people. :laugh:
 
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#59
All your arguments are wasted on me frankly. Your opinions are dull and worthless and...

WHOOOOOPPPPSSSSSS!

I just ordered a Titan and a waterblock. :roll:

If this isn't smooth as silk, I'm going to fly over to the US and make y'alll eat it.

Now, time to take photos of my beautiful 7970's for the B/S/T forum...
You do realise I'm British :eek:
 
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#60
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#61
Yeah, I'm saving you till last Oxford boy. I'm gonna Morse you up. :laugh:
Wahey!

I'm not gunna be in Oxford too much longer, anyway :p

Planning to move to North or West London later this year.
 
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#62
Good luck with the move. Mind I'll need your new address if this new card isn't as smooth as my 7970's were ;)
 
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#63
All your arguments are wasted on me frankly. Your opinions are dull and worthless and...

WHOOOOOPPPPSSSSSS!

I just ordered a Titan and a waterblock. :roll:

If this isn't smooth as silk, I'm going to fly over to the US and make y'alll eat it.

Now, time to take photos of my beautiful 7970's for the B/S/T forum...
Well, I guess it couldn't be helped :) Welcome to the club mate! :toast:

I really hope you like your new card, it's a long way from Scotland to sunny California! ;)

Please upload pictures of the waterblock once you install it :p a Titan under water, you had to go the whole nine yards I recon! :rockout:
 

crazyeyesreaper

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#64
well worse case with 7970s sold add in cost of water blocks hes probably out $200-300 out of pocket but lose the multi gpu headache for single gpu. Its a jump I would make.
 
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#65
Well, I guess it couldn't be helped :) Welcome to the club mate! :toast:

I really hope you like your new card, and please upload pictures of the waterblock once you install it :p a Titan under water, you had to go the whole nine yards I recon! :rockout:
Cheers mate. I've got too much invested in water cooling in my current system (2 x D5 vario pumps, 480 rad. 240 rad, 2 tube reservoirs and a multitude of fittings). I also want to run the Titan as fast as it will go under good temps. If I get the same level of performance W1zzard got in his review for the overclock, namely:



Then that's only 20-25% off dual GHz 7970's and it should be completely smooth.

well worse case with 7970s sold add in cost of water blocks hes probably out $200-300 out of pocket but lose the multi gpu headache for single gpu. Its a jump I would make.
You're one of the many voices that tipped me over!
 
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#66
Cheers mate. I've got too much invested in water cooling in my current system (2 x D5 vario pumps, 480 rad. 240 rad, 2 tube reservoirs and a multitude of fittings). I also want to run the Titan as fast as it will go under good temps. If I get the same level of performance W1zzard got in his review for the overclock, namely:

http://tpucdn.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_Titan/images/perf_oc.gif

Then that's only 20-25% off dual GHz 7970's and it should be completely smooth.



You're one of the many voices that tipped me over!
That's the spirit! :p

Looks like the only thing preventing you from reaching the same result would be the power limit, as your card will be running cooler than any other Titan on air, I'm pretty sure you'll get a good OC under those circumstances :toast:

If only I wasn't such a chicken shit when it comes to custom water cooling, it's nice to have the skill to build a system like yours, respect :respect:
 
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#67
That's the spirit! :p

Looks like the only thing preventing you from reaching the same result would be the power limit, as your card will be running cooler than any other Titan on air, I'm pretty sure you'll get a good OC under those circumstances :toast:

If only I wasn't such a chicken shit when it comes to custom water cooling, it's nice to have the skill to build a system like yours, respect :respect:
Didn't you say you were a dentist? You have the required skill I assure you. :D

I've read a lot of negative Titan remarks at overclock.net about the cards throttling. Is this an issue with you or is it just that these guys keep trying higher overclocks and it's just the card staying safe?
 
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#68
Didn't you say you were a dentist? You have the required skill I assure you. :D

I've read a lot of negative Titan remarks at overclock.net about the cards throttling. Is this an issue with you or is it just that these guys keep trying higher overclocks and it's just the card staying safe?
You know, I haven't noticed any throttling, but then again, my cards don't hit the thermal limit (80 degrees I believe?) so they run over the actual advertised boost clock most of the time, dunno if any ppl are reaching too high temps, and then cards have to reduce the clocks...