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Global Warming & Climate Change Discussion

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We need to revitalize soil this time, though. Inorganic fertilisers break the carbon cycle thus releasing carbon stores, also thinning the soil layer.

What?

I'd love to hear an explanation of that. :)

Inorganic fertilizers are in the large part fixed nitrogen, like nematodes produce.
The other parts are phosphorous, and potassium.

None of these are "Breaking the carbon cycle"; they lead to more plant growth, makes them absorb more CO2, and yield more nutrients.

None of these things are different from using less efficient organic substitutes, which contain less of these chemicals per volume.

The problem with inorganics is with runoff, but that's not what you said.

Please, I haven't had a good laugh today; please inform us how this "Breaks the Carbon cycle".
 
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Please, I haven't had a good laugh today; please inform us how this "Breaks the Carbon cycle".
It kills soil mycelial networks. Fertilizer is acidic and fungi aren't at good terms with such heavy chemicals.
The fertilizer substrates normally are present however in smaller quantities. Mycelium root stock is much broader than plant roots that rather dig down for water. Mycelium on the otherhand traverse horizontally. They are symbiotic.
 
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The only reason why Earth has over 7 billion humans is because of fossil fuels. More people can live in smaller space thanks to electricity produced from coal, more food grown in the same space thanks to oil-based fertilizers, and diesel transporting goods many miles from areas of production to areas of consumption. China lifted itself out of poverty by building coal mines and power plants at a staggering rate.

Or - and here's a crazy idea - we could have fewer people, living in better conditions, with less pollution. Quantity is not quality.
 
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Imagine sciences taking a political stand leaving the poor to toil, 'whitling down their numbers' as a justification. I'm sure it is a new slogan...
 
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Or - and here's a crazy idea - we could have fewer people, living in better conditions, with less pollution. Quantity is not quality.

Kill 'em all; God knows his own.

Where have I heard this before?
Better kill the right ones; Pol Pot proved killing all the educated people was a losing proposition.

SMH.


It kills soil mycelial networks. Fertilizer is acidic and fungi aren't at good terms with such heavy chemicals.
The fertilizer substrates normally are present however in smaller quantities. Mycelium root stock is much broader than plant roots that rather dig down for water. Mycelium on the otherhand traverse horizontally. They are symbiotic.

Nematodes are not affected by inorganic fertilizers, so unless you're running a mushroom farm, fungus==loss.

"Fertilizer substrates"; what exactly is that? :)

Soil based fungus competes for nutrients; that's not "symbiotic".

References?

Inorganic fertilizer has a century-old track record, and I have never heard of the drivel you spew without references.

Next I guess you'll call me biased. :)

If it weren't for inorganic fertilizers, Tennessee would not export anything.



Climate change was the original topic, before the generic idiots came out of the woodwork.

Check out this:

QYXYUFSV2NEAXJK6JA2O24PA2M.jpg


This is the Antarctic; this is the melt in less than two weeks.

But Climate Change/Global Warming is a Hoax, right?

SMH.
 
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Or - and here's a crazy idea - we could have fewer people, living in better conditions, with less pollution. Quantity is not quality.
The more prosperous a household, the fewer children it has. This is partly why Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation is trying to raise Africa out of poverty: naturally reduces birth rates. But skipping past the industrial revolution without relying on fossil fuels is expensive. It remains to be seen if the effort is self sustaining.
 
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Soil based fungus competes for nutrients; that's not "symbiotic".

References?
Anything Paul Stamets has to offer. Fungi are not even commensal, they need the sugar plants offer in exchange for nutrients.

Check out this:

This is the Antarctic; this is the melt in less than two weeks.

But Climate Change/Global Warming is a Hoax, right?
What you are saying is called concern trolling. World doesn't go around because you tell it to. Stop spreading FUD. What we need is a solution. I play the photosynthetic carbon sequestration wildcard. You could play your co2 capture and storage wildcard, but I'm going to say it as a one time disclaimer: had it not been for co2, your o2 pressure in your capillary vessels would drop. Stop messing with the environment rather than making it more efficient. We are here because of biology and that involves the mighty little 'C'.
 
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Actual Pictures are FUD. Right.

I still don't see any references.

At 400ppm CO2, we are already seeing problems; that number will not decrease in the next 50 years, regardless of actions we take.

We can decrease the rate it increases, but people will make sure that doesn't happen, because money.

Rats have a higher tolerance to CO2, so they'll still be alive to eat us when we pass out from lack of O2.

Enjoy!
 
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At low partial o2 pressure, such as high altitude, co2 scrubbers cause a decrease of capillary o2 tension. You expect a magic solution. There isn't any. No leaps of faith to envision your sort of world.
 
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This is the Antarctic; this is the melt in less than two weeks.

But Climate Change/Global Warming is a Hoax, right?
This Antarctic coastal melting happens every year and varies from year to year and decade to decade. Hardly alarming information when the proper context is observed.

At 400ppm CO2, we are already seeing problems
And again, hardly an alarming number when ice-gas samples, from the Antarctic shelf itself, show that CO2 levels have been high in the past, as high as 950PPM, during the middle of the last ice-age. It was shown to be due to volcanic activity of the time. The Earth's atmosphere recovered. What we have been and are doing to the environment is minor compared to the periodic volatile volcanic activity Earth experiences, which the geologic record shows we are on the leading edge of. Additionally almost all of the nations on Earth are actively participating in reducing pollutants and human impact on the environment. While there is much work still to be done over the next century, great progress has been made.
 
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This Antarctic coastal melting happens every year and varies from year to year and decade to decade. Hardly alarming information when the proper context is observed.


And again, hardly an alarming number when ice-gas samples, from the Antarctic shelf itself, show that CO2 levels have been high in the past, as high as 950PPM, during the middle of the last ice-age. It was shown to be due to volcanic activity of the time. The Earth's atmosphere recovered. What we have been and are doing to the environment is minor compared to the periodic volatile volcanic activity Earth experiences, which the geologic record shows we are on the leading edge of. Additionally almost all of the nations on Earth are actively participating in reducing pollutants and human impact on the environment. While there is much work still to be done over the next century, great progress has been made.

I'm sure you wouldn't post without a source and your mention of 950ppm intrigued me. But I couldn't find that info. The closest I can find to evidence on long term ice-cores relates to Antartic Ice Sheet sensitivity, which recorded levels at 500ppm (long before the last ice age). These levels, however, had a significant impact on melting and suggest sensitivty to melting at even lower levels than 500ppm.

Moreover, significant volcanic activity is known to drive global cooling, therefore it would be expected that higher CO2 emissions were present at the onset of such periods. Even if measures were that high, they reflect a transient event (volcanic activity). Transient events do affect the global system but are normally put in check by the very systems form which they come. You say the atmosphere recovered- it did, but after a very long time. Our lifespan would be consumed many times over by the passage of time required to naturally 'heal' such catastrophic damage.

The current measures (at 400+ppm) are part of a trend of an accelerating increase. Our recent past has seen an increase in CO2 from human influences of burning fossil fuels, after all, creating energy from burning organics does release CO2. Other significant factors, farming and methane etc are also to blame, again, all part of the human influence.

Also, to use volatile natural 'disasters' as some sort of innoculation to minimise the current trend is disingenuous. In fact, an item quoted from Forbes, on studies in volcanic CO2 emissions stated:

even if we include the rare, very large volcanic eruptions, like 1980's Mount St. Helens or 1991's Mount Pinatubo eruption, they only emitted 10 and 50 million tons of CO2 each, respectively. It would take three Mount St. Helens and one Mount Pinatubo eruption every day to equal the amount that humanity is presently emitting.

And if that happened - we'd all be dead anyway.

To add to that, the source article states volcanic CO2 emissions (all forms) contribute to a 1/4 billion tonnes of CO2 each year. Human sources of CO2 are measured at around 29 billion.
 
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In fact, an item quoted from Forbes
Interesting source...

 

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Interesting source...


Yes, the article was from Forbes but the source data came from a volcanologist.


I can't find anywhere your data of 950ppm. In the links you gave we have:

Over the last 800,000 years atmospheric CO2 levels as indicated by the ice-core data have fluctuated between 170 and 300 parts per million by volume (ppmv), corresponding with conditions of glacial and interglacial periods. The Vostok core indicates very similar trends. Prior to about 450,000 years before present time (BP) atmospheric CO2 levels were always at or below 260 ppmv and reached lowest values, approaching 170 ppmv, between 660,000 and 670,000 years ago. The highest pre-industrial value recorded in 800,000 years of ice-core record was 298.6 ppmv, in the Vostok core, around 330,000 years ago. Atmospheric CO2 levels have increased markedly in industrial times; measurements in year 2010 at Cape Grim Tasmania and the South Pole both indicated values of 386 ppmv, and are currently increasing at about 2 ppmv/year.
 
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The only reason why Earth has over 7 billion humans is because of fossil fuels.

We could try not fearing nuclear energy.

Our current course is wholly unsustainable. We aren't ever going to eliminate fossil fuels entirely but our present use is crazily over the edge.
 

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We could try not fearing nuclear energy.

Our current course is wholly unsustainable. We aren't ever going to eliminate fossil fuels entirely but our present use is crazily over the edge.

Fukushima bit Japan badly, psychologically speaking. They're intent on building more coal power stations. They'll also need to import the coal. All because they built a Nuclear power station in a known Tsunami area. :kookoo:
 
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Fukushima bit Japan badly, psychologically speaking. They're intent on building more coal power stations. They'll also need to import the coal. All because they built a Nuclear power station in a known Tsunami area. :kookoo:

Well cooling wise a large body of water makes sense. That's one of the issues. But that was still exceptionally bad placement.
 
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We could try not fearing nuclear energy.

It's not just fear, it's economics: https://www.npr.org/2016/04/07/4733...price-nuclear-power-on-the-decline-in-the-u-s and https://www.forbes.com/sites/michae...hy-when-it-comes-to-energy-small-is-expensive

Fukushima bit Japan badly, psychologically speaking. They're intent on building more coal power stations. They'll also need to import the coal. All because they built a Nuclear power station in a known Tsunami area. :kookoo:

Onagawa NPP is twice as close to the epicentre of the 2011 earthquake and tsunami, yet it had no issues. Why? Because the utility responsible for its construction, Tōhoku Electric, listened to its engineers and constructed a seawall nearly 3 times as high as the one that Tepco built around Fukushima Daiichi. That seawall was only a meter taller than the waves from the tsunami, but it was enough to ensure the plant was able to shut down safely. In short: it's nothing to do with the location of the plant, and everything to do with how responsible - or not - the company responsible for its construction and management is.

I maintain that Japan's about-face on nuclear power is not due to fear of it, but rather mistrust of greedy utilities like Tepco that received no significant penalties in the wake of Fukushima Daiichi. If the government isn't willing to punish those responsible, those responsible are going to repeat their f**kery, and the Japanese people will suffer again.
 
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It's not just fear, it's economics: https://www.npr.org/2016/04/07/4733...price-nuclear-power-on-the-decline-in-the-u-s and https://www.forbes.com/sites/michae...hy-when-it-comes-to-energy-small-is-expensive



Onagawa NPP is twice as close to the epicentre of the 2011 earthquake and tsunami, yet it had no issues. Why? Because the utility responsible for its construction, Tōhoku Electric, listened to its engineers and constructed a seawall nearly 3 times as high as the one that Tepco built around Fukushima Daiichi. That seawall was only a meter taller than the waves from the tsunami, but it was enough to ensure the plant was able to shut down safely. In short: it's nothing to do with the location of the plant, and everything to do with how responsible - or not - the company responsible for its construction and management is.

I maintain that Japan's about-face on nuclear power is not due to fear of it, but rather mistrust of greedy utilities like Tepco that received no significant penalties in the wake of Fukushima Daiichi. If the government isn't willing to punish those responsible, those responsible are going to repeat their f**kery, and the Japanese people will suffer again.

Yeah, I knew about Tepco - some extremely bad practice. Not too far removed from the sort of mindset at Chenorbyl, though obviously, very hard to draw direct comparisons. The problem with Nuclear incidents is the immediate mistrust of the technology, as opposed to the very real malpractice of a company.
 
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For the record, I would like it to be known that while I don't particularly like nuclear power (due to the waste, which includes inevitable power station decommissioning) I find it far more palatable than anything that burns fossil fuels. Nuclear fission is inherently more dangerous than anything else we currently have, yes, but it's understood well enough that we are capable of harnessing it safely. The issues around it are solely due to lack of enforcement of regulations, and that is a problem of political will, not the technology.
 
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Yeah, I knew about Tepco - some extremely bad practice. Not too far removed from the sort of mindset at Chenorbyl, though obviously, very hard to draw direct comparisons. The problem with Nuclear incidents is the immediate mistrust of the technology, as opposed to the very real malpractice of a company.

This about sums up my feelings.

It's a powerful technology you should be careful around, like gasoline. There's a reason people don't use open flames at gas stations.

Treat it right and it's helpful to man. Neglect it and well... boom.

For the record, I would like it to be known that while I don't particularly like nuclear power (due to the waste, which includes inevitable power station decommissioning) I find it far more palatable than anything that burns fossil fuels. Nuclear fission is inherently more dangerous than anything else we currently have, yes, but it's understood well enough that we are capable of harnessing it safely. The issues around it are solely due to lack of enforcement of regulations, and that is a problem of political will, not the technology.

My main favored tech involves use of the new "Fast rebreeder" type reactors. They are effectively reactors that can run on some of the old spent fuel: ie the most dangerous part of the waste.
 
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My main favored tech involves use of the new "Fast rebreeder" type reactors. They are effectively reactors that can run on some of the old spent fuel: ie the most dangerous part of the waste.

What blows my mind is that the Generation IV reactor designs are available and pretty much proven, but none of them are in commercial operation. Hell, there are barely any Gen III reactors in operation worldwide - most are Gen II! If not for the myopic fixation on the holy grail of fusion (which has remained 2 decades away since the 1950s) I believe we would have many more, far better fission plants in operation to help us break our dependence on fossil fuels.
 
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What blows my mind is that the Generation IV reactor designs are available and pretty much proven, but none of them are in commercial operation. Hell, there are barely any Gen III reactors in operation worldwide
That's because they are bloody expensive to build/rebuild. Replacement is almost the same amount.
 

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Because natural gas is so cheap there's no interest in investing in $1+ billion reactors. Bond measures to try to fund such projects almost always fall way short of the goal. Then the reactors being built now are way over time and over budget. Natural gas is so much cheaper and simpler.

What we need is a modular reactor design that's virtually plug and play. Mass production and precertification is the only way nuclear will make a come back.
 

Tatty_Two

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In the UK nuclear has not really gone away (15 operational nuclear reactors across 8 plants)) and is set to grow by a third over the next 15 years, it currently generates around 20% of the UK's electricity and in terms of total UK energy production/consumption low carbon fuels make up 20%, of which by far the greatest contributor is Nuclear …….. still a long way to go though.
 
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