Have AIOs killed custom loops?

[Why_Me]

I agree that the eficiency of a system is largely bound to the rad's own ability to move heat to atmosphere.
In my case I prefer copper since it's the better of the two and (Personally) I'm a "Stickler" for getting the most out of what I've got if I have it at all. Yes, sticking to the same metal/material in the system is better than mixing things.

You're probrably right about that these days.

I can honestly say things like blocks for CPU's and the like aren't as "Good" as they were before about soaking up heat spikes due to them not being as thick, or substantial as they were back in the day.
Today, the the emphasis is more on overall efficiency which is OK in itself.
Compared to how thick blocks used to be vs what you'd find today lends evidence of it.

An example is when you compare the thickness of block bases these days, they are paper-thin in comparison to alot for things you could get back in the day and some are even made of aluminum, not copper.
Anything made now with copper is just a really thin sheet of copper stamped/made into the design and that's about it.

However the term "Custom" always carries a higher price tag too and that's one big reason why the market and pickings of such components is so slim these days.
You really don't have manufacturers making anything of real quality vs what was available in the past for custom setups and that just hurts the market for it.

Other than hobbyist/enthusiast/techie freaks (this board for example), nobody wants to mess with custom cooling seeing how there is no need for it these days.

 

[Kapone33]

Other than hobbyist/enthusiast/techie freaks (this board for example), nobody wants to mess with custom cooling seeing how there is no need for it these days.

Agreed in today's world most people get PCs built by their friends or someone who knows someone. As a result the vast majority of systems have AIOs. In all the builds I have done since Ryzen launched I have used an air cooler in 2 builds where they specifically asked for an Air cooler.

 

[Bones]

Other than hobbyist/enthusiast/techie freaks (this board for example), nobody wants to mess with custom cooling seeing how there is no need for it these days.

What is it?

 

[Why_Me]

What is it?

You ever read the threads on this board. These are the kind of people that pull sh1t apart and put it back together again in order to improve on the original design. Most of the post on here are above my head tbh.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

I like all 3 major forms of cooling a pc they all have a place none are replacing the other. Personally I think a lot of different choices is a good thing.

 

[Kapone33]

I like all 3 major forms of cooling a pc they all have a place none are replacing the other. Personally I think a lot of different choices is a good thing.

And they all fit another thing that makes some aspects of the PC industry exemplary.

 

[A Computer Guy]

I don't have the numbers to know if AIO's are killing custom loops but after having assembled my first loop successfully after using an AIO many years ago I'd wouldn't go back to using an AIO ever.

Air is basically maintenance free other than a dusting and good coolers can still compete.

Custom cooling will always be more expensive (in terms of raw parts cost and labor) but I like being able to know I've checked every gasket and connection for a leak proof experience so going all in also means perfecting my setup to 100% satisfaction including the proper tube length to fit into my PC case and piece of mind knowing it's not going to leak. Also with that I know something about the fluid being used not being a problem that's going to gunk up in the fins. I'll add that when I got my first blocks I didn't try to get "the best ones" and managed to get both on sale with heavy discounts but the fittings are what really killed my budget. If I had to make any recommendations for new customer loop builders it would be (in no particular order)

• get what's on sale that's not pure garbage
• use a simple D5 and tube combo
• use clear fluid only
• use opaque low permeation soft tubing
• don't get the smallest tubing size ex: 10/13mm, go 10/16mm instead
• don't bother with distribution plates
• any money you save not buying something RGB can be put to better use building your custom loop
• pressure test with air before filling your loop
• mistakes will happen so plan for it

Although AIO's seems to have gotten better I hate the ewaste aspect of it approaching almost a consumable product and the pumps will likely be worse in terms of noise and failure rate especially over time. I just want a trusty D5 I can put on top of a CPU waterblock/reservoir to make things more compact but by the time EK gets around to that it will be 400% more expensive for no reason at all. If custom water cooling dies it will be partially because EK helped price it into oblivion.

I would be remiss to say I haven't looked at something like Arctic Liquid Freezer II and said - humm that seems pretty good deal for only about $100-$150 and it had good reviews for performance before my "other side" catches up and says no, just no, you've got spare parts now so go deeper and make a second custom loop you fool.

In farness for AIO's they are made to be basically maintenance free so as long as they don't leak and the fluid isn't garbage for an average user why not? I would like to see more proactive recycling efforts though such as recycling returns accepted by big box stores without charge. Until that happens I probably won't get another AIO over an air cooler unless some unforeseen circumstance leaves me with no choice.

Regarding hybrid AIO's that attempt to be "expandable" - from the ones I had seen - the major drawback to those is they end up being even more niche for not using standard parts already in custom loops. Instead one could conceivably make a custom loop with one of those DDC pump/block combos and a RAD that is proportional in size and volume to an AIO. The downside I think based on comments I read over time is those DDC pump/block combos tend to be quite cheap and underperform for modern CPU's that need better heat dissipation.

One big gripe I have for any liquid cooling device is there isn't any universal motherboard or OS mechanism to protect the system in case of pump failure.

 

[sn2x]

The value of AIO can't be beat, when compared to custom.

I bought a 280mm AIO for under $60 back in 2021, less than the price of a high end air cooler.

Custom loops are too expensive and too time consuming for my taste, though it would be nice to cool my GPU, I wouldn't pay hundreds extra to do so (and it'd be a PITA to upgrade, as I upgrade GPUs every generation).

 

[freeagent]

I ran my old H100 dry lol.. piece of junk. I have a Thermalright 360 AIO and it is pretty decent.. about 3-5c better than my heatsinks at a 260w load from my 5900X. Not a fan of an AIO in my Torrent though.. I have to brute force air though the rad to cool other components using a push/pull config of 5 fans.

 

[gurusmi]

The value of AIO can't be beat, when compared to custom.

I bought a 280mm AIO for under $60 back in 2021, less than the price of a high end air cooler.

Custom loops are too expensive and too time consuming for my taste, though it would be nice to cool my GPU, I wouldn't pay hundreds extra to do so (and it'd be a PITA to upgrade, as I upgrade GPUs every generation).

1. Try to cool DDR5 RAM or PCIe5.0 SSD's with an AIO.
2. You can buy A Alphacool AIO for a CPU and integrate a GPU. You can also buy a GPU AiO from Alphacool.

It seems that most of you arent aware what and how can be cooled with an AiO. So this discussion will fail anyway. You cannot discuss about cornering with a car and never drove one before.

 

[Bones]

You ever read the threads on this board. These are the kind of people that pull sh1t apart and put it back together again in order to improve on the original design. Most of the post on here are above my head tbh.

I'm active in some, but not all threads/sections so yeah, I had to ask.
No way I can remember everyone's system specs on the spot either and that's another reason why.

I was going to look around and see if anything could be found - I'd be no worse off than where we are right now (Nothing) by looking anyway.

 

[Kapone33]

I would be remiss to say I haven't looked at something like Arctic Liquid Freezer II and said - humm that seems pretty good deal for only about $100-$150 and it had good reviews for performance before my "other side" catches up and says no, just no, you've got spare parts now so go deeper and make a second custom loop you fool.

In farness for AIO's they are made to be basically maintenance free so as long as they don't leak and the fluid isn't garbage for an average user why not? I would like to see more proactive recycling efforts though such as recycling returns accepted by big box stores without charge. Until that happens I probably won't get another AIO over an air cooler unless some unforeseen circumstance leaves me with no choice.

Regarding hybrid AIO's that attempt to be "expandable" - from the ones I had seen - the major drawback to those is they end up being even more niche for not using standard parts already in custom loops. Instead one could conceivably make a custom loop with one of those DDC pump/block combos and a RAD that is proportional in size and volume to an AIO. The downside I think based on comments I read over time is those DDC pump/block combos tend to be quite cheap and underperform for modern CPU's that need better heat dissipation.

One big gripe I have for any liquid cooling device is there isn't any universal motherboard or OS mechanism to protect the system in case of pump failure.

Alphacool Eisbaer has no worse parts vs what you can buy from them. The Eisbear is sold as a D5 pump/res, quick tubing and 240-420 rad. Each of those things can be bought individually. This made adding a GPU AIO from them (where the pump is in the head of the GPU block) academic. Some of my first posts on TPU were celebrating the convenience and genius of Quick connect. Today I have a pump res for my GPU so the block does not matter. This is one of the reasons that people today water cool their GPUs. I have a Sapphire 7900XT Pulse. When that card is in idle it is fine but when you are in the 3rd hour of a session of TWWH3 on a Friday those fans sound like a Hair Dryer. The only cards that I have found that are actually quiet are As Rock cards. The proof of the performance of these parts (same as Custom) is how much heat the GPU rad pushes into the room. Enough that I can have the Window open when Gaming and it is cold outside. I am very interested in the Alphacool C1 though. I did buy a Phanteks distro plate that I could have be a res for that. That is the secret of Alphacool once you get it Water cooling becomes academic. You also have sites like Grooves land that have plenty of inexpensive good Alphacool parts that you get free shipping World wide on. The only lamentation is DHL is the carrier.

1. Try to cool DDR5 RAM or PCIe5.0 SSD's with an AIO.
2. You can buy A Alphacool AIO for a CPU and integrate a GPU. You can also buy a GPU AiO from Alphacool.

It seems that most of you arent aware what and how can be cooled with an AiO. So this discussion will fail anyway. You cannot discuss about cornering with a car and never drove one before.

Most people see Asetek when they think of AIOs. Alphacool is like Thermalright, or how Asus or Logitech used to be. Some really innovative tech (I know quick connect has been in the Aquarium industry) that bridges the gap seamlessly between AIOs and Custom cooling.

 

[A Computer Guy]

You ever read the threads on this board. These are the kind of people that pull sh1t apart and put it back together again in order to improve on the original design. Most of the post on here are above my head tbh.

You should enjoy this thread where ultimately I take the reader though the complete teardown and rebuild of my custom loop twice! (warning many many photos)

 

[ShrimpBrime]

One big gripe I have for any liquid cooling device is there isn't any universal motherboard or OS mechanism to protect the system in case of pump failure.

There is safety precautions built into board and cpu. Throttle then therm-trip (board shuts off).

Water cooling pics.

 

[thesmokingman]

I ran my old H100 dry lol.. piece of junk. I have a Thermalright 360 AIO and it is pretty decent.. about 3-5c better than my heatsinks at a 260w load from my 5900X. Not a fan of an AIO in my Torrent though.. I have to brute force air though the rad to cool other components using a push/pull config of 5 fans.

Curious, how many years did you get out of it?

 

[lexluthermiester]

Have AIOs killed custom loops?
And no, I'm not making a poll because I'm not interested in bland yes/no answers - I'm looking for others' experiences. So walls of text away!

It can depend on one's own personal view. I personally haven't built a custom loop for myself in years. I had an H80i for a few years and recently upgraded to an ID-Cooling 280 based AIO. Simple and easy is best. I also don't OC like mad anymore, so custom loops really have no purpose. I don't build my personal systems for show as they're all locked away in my office. Just not showing off like in the past.

I recently purchased an Arctic Liquid Freezer II 420, which cost under £90.

That's a very solid cooler for that price point. Nice!

The problem is, watercooling components are really freaking expensive.

Yeah, the custom market has gone a bit elitist, generally. But value and bargain shopping can/will result in good builds at reasonable prices.

 

[InVasMani]

If I ever replaced my 240 push/pull in the future it's most likely to be replaced with a 360 push/pull. It's been amazing coming from a tower cooler both cooler and more quiet by a notable amount. Durability is basically my only concern with it otherwise it's just great. Custom loop was too pricey when I was looking at it and hard tubing feels less user friendly as well. It's nice as a show piece and good set it and forget option, but otherwise AIO's feel much more practical and economical. Not having hard tubing also makes it more serviceable to swap fans for example.

 

[thesmokingman]

If I ever replaced my 240 push/pull in the future it's most likely to be replaced with a 360 push/pull. It's been amazing coming from a tower cooler both cooler and more quiet by a notable amount. Durability is basically my only concern with it otherwise it's just great. Custom loop was too pricey when I was looking at it and hard tubing feels less user friendly as well. It's nice as a show piece and good set it and forget option, but otherwise AIO's feel much more practical and economical. Not having hard tubing also makes it more serviceable to swap fans for example.

Tbf, hard tubing is not required. It's only used on show rigs and not sure why you assume its the only way to custom wc?

 

[Dr. Dro]

Somewhat. Custom loops cost far too much due to all the parts involved, and a 360 to 420 mm AIO can handle 300 W of heat, so to need to extract north of that... well, at that point might as well cap your Core i9 at 300 W before something else melts.

 

[xmanrigger]

One big gripe I have for any liquid cooling device is there isn't any universal motherboard or OS mechanism to protect the system in case of pump failure.

So what would you do when a conventional air cooler fan failed? The method of cooling is irrelevant.

Same thing is going to happen if CPU overheats regardless of cooling method. Safeguards will kick in and PC will shut down.

 

[thesmokingman]

So what would you do when a conventional air cooler fan failed? The method of cooling is irrelevant.

Same thing is going to happen if CPU overheats regardless of cooling method. Safeguards will kick in and PC will shut down.

Yea... reminds of when there were no cpu protections at ALL years ago.

 

[Kapone33]

So what would you do when a conventional air cooler fan failed? The method of cooling is irrelevant.

Same thing is going to happen if CPU overheats regardless of cooling method. Safeguards will kick in and PC will shut down.

I remember putting system together using an air cooler. I installed everything, turned it on, got in the BIOS and the CPU temp was 68 C within 10 seconds it climbed 12 c and shutdown. I had forgotten to install the CPU fan. Without the fan running the heatsink on an air cooler will fail in seconds.

 

[xmanrigger]

The expense of a custom loop can be justified. Once you build your initial loop, you have all the water cooling components for next build. At most, you only need a new CPU block.

As far as maintenance goes, very little. If all components are washed/flushed and rinsed with distilled water, and loop properly assembled, there is very little to worry about.

Actually less to worry about than an AIO. Less to worry about because you have the 'piece of mind' that you yourself assembled it and it was done correctly with quality components.

 

[dgianstefani]

Having my CPU and GPU hotspot at 50 C while pulling 80 and 400 W is a perk that AIO users can't understand.

2GHz+ locked Ampere without hearing it.

BCLK OC to 5.3 GHz and 55ns memory due to consistently cool memory controller.

You're not getting a good deal on cheap AIOs, you're just renting cooling for a few years. Rents due when your coolant evaporates and the overworked pump fails. Enjoy your ewaste. Time to pay rent again.

At least air cooler enjoyers aren't creating a cycle of ewaste.

I wonder how many pcs are silently (or not so silently, have a look at the AIO reviews on TPU and check out the noise when brand new, you're talking 50-60+ dBA) throttling because the AIO can't keep up anymore and the user is not savvy enough to notice. Hey, at least they're "watercooling", that's cool like RGB right?

I remember rebuilding a pc where the user installed a 120mm AIO with the push/pull fans pointed in opposite direction. Wondering why bad temps. Switched him to a D15 and he never looked back. If you're not savvy or financially comfortable enough to build a loop, use air. Better in the long run.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Having my CPU and GPU at 50 C while pulling 80 and 400 W is a perk that AIO users can't understand.

Not true. There are some AIO's that do just as well as a custom loop. The idea that AIO's are inferior is just not valid anymore. It once was, but the quality and workmanship have GREATLY improved over the last 15 years.

You're not getting a good deal on cheap AIOs, you're just renting cooling for a few years.

Also not true. My H80i would still be running if it weren't for the lightning strike in my neighborhood. It was an OG H80i(made in 2014 IIRC) and was running fine. It never had any issues with the OCing I did. Granted, I was OCing an X79 CPU to 4.2ish Ghz with a minor bump in voltage, but it was nowhere near heat-soak and I could have pushed it much further. I wouldn't call it "cheap" but it wasn't expensive either.

Rents due when your coolant evaporates and the overworked pump fails. Enjoy your ewaste. Time to pay rent again.

Have never seen this in person. I doubt it happens all that much.

If you're not savvy or financially comfortable enough to build a loop, use air. Better in the long run.

This is less than great advice. It would be better to suggest people buy a known quality AIO or stay with air.