Have AIOs killed custom loops?

[dgianstefani]

Not true. There are some AIO's that do just as well as a custom loop. The idea that AIO's are inferior is just not valid anymore. It once was, but the quality and workmanship have GREATLY improved over the last 15 years.

The top AIO TPU has tested can cool 250 W at 60 dBA.

350 W if Intel.

That's not even close to 500 W at < 30 dBA.

 

[thesmokingman]

Have never seen this in person. I doubt it happens all that much.

Happens all the time. I've thrown out my share of AIO, they're just not worth the money or effort to rehab. Which is why I personally like many others only use AIO for other peoples rigs.

 

[lexluthermiester]

The top AIO TPU has tested can cool 250 W at 60 dBA.

To be fair, TPU doesn't test all that many AIO's. I'd bet less than 5%.

Happens all the time. I've thrown out my share of AIO, they're just not worth the money or effort to rehab. Which is why I personally like many others only use AIO for other peoples rigs.

Buy better quality then? Seriously. AIO's are not bad if you are willing to spend at least $70 to $85 for a quality unit.

 

[thesmokingman]

To be fair, TPU doesn't test all that many AIO's. I'd bet less than 5%.


Buy better quality then? Seriously. AIO's are not bad if you are willing to spend at least $70 to $85 for a quality unit.

You're one of those who doesn't read shit and just keeps repeating "your" truth.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

I replace my aio every 5-6 years just out of warranty. I've never kept a cpu longer than 5 years but non intel cpu are so easy to cool wattage wise (temps are whatever anymore they will all boost till they hit a specific temperature and stop unless you alter it in the bios) that even a 30-40 usd air cooler can handle the heat output. Now if you want a 14900k to not break past 100c sure open loop ftw also I see people talk about gpu being 50c my pos cooler on my gigabyte 4090 does like 65c not really worried I'd rather have a fast gpu than a slow one with a water block..

 

[dgianstefani]

not really worried I'd rather have a fast gpu than a slow one with a water block..

It's not an either or choice. You can have both.

If you don't mind a 2 KG 3-4 slot cooler hanging off your motherboard then stock air coolers are indeed good enough.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

It's not an either or choice. You can have both.

If you don't mind a 2 KG 3-4 slot cooler hanging off your motherboard then stock air coolers are indeed good enough.

True but the majority of the people I see with water blocks have slowish gpu on this site I guess them 4090 WB people are too busy gaming

 

[thesmokingman]

It's not an either or choice. You can have both.

If you don't mind a 2 KG 3-4 slot cooler hanging off your motherboard then stock air coolers are indeed good enough.

I'd add that we see a crapton of dead gpus around the 5 year mark under stock air cooling. My blocked gpus on the other hand don't die, they just get replaced because they become slower.

 

[dgianstefani]

True but the majority of the people I see with water blocks have slowish gpu on this site I guess them 4090 WB people are too busy gaming

What do you define as "slow"? Anything that's not a 4090? Some people don't upgrade every generation. 4090 also has old displayport so you can't even use all that power with the latest monitors without compression, which is why I'm personally waiting for next gen.

I'd add that we see a crapton of dead gpus around the 5 year mark under stock air cooling. My blocked gpus on the other hand don't die, they just get replaced because they become slower.

I think that might change with this generation, RTX40xx cards have shown to have better temps overall compared to previous generations.

Probably because they're so efficient.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

What do you define as "slow"? Anything that's not a 4090? Some people don't upgrade every generation. 4090 also has old displayport so you can't even use all that power with the latest monitors without compression, which is why I'm personally waiting for next gen.


I think that might change with this generation, RTX40xx cards have shown to have better temps overall compared to previous generations.

Probably because they're so efficient.

Well technically in some games even the 4090 is slow....... Poor wording the majority I see are non flagship which never made sense to me but to each their own.

 

[dgianstefani]

Well technically in some games even the 4090 is slow....... Poor wording the majority I see are non flagship which never made sense to me but to each their own.

Yeah there's little point waterblocking below xx80 class. This generation 4070 Ti and below are only ~2-300 W class chips anyway.

But then people pay for factory overclocked air cooled GPUs at hundreds over MSRP so it's really not very different.

 

[Dr. Dro]

You're not getting a good deal on cheap AIOs, you're just renting cooling for a few years. Rents due when your coolant evaporates and the overworked pump fails. Enjoy your ewaste. Time to pay rent again.

I mean, fair enough on this point. But I can buy a new 360mm AIO with minimal investment, and install it with minimal difficulty. It's on the list of things "I will do someday", but I have really no hurry for...

To convert my current system to water cooling, I need:

- A new full-tower size case
- Tubing and fittings
- Pumps
- Radiators
- CPU block
- GPU block

At that point, wouldn't it be a better idea to, I don't know, just upgrade to a i9-15900K/"Core Ultra whatever" and buy a 5080 instead?

 

[dgianstefani]

I mean, fair enough on this point. But I can buy a new 360mm AIO with minimal investment, and install it with minimal difficulty. It's on the list of things "I will do someday", but I have really no hurry for...

To convert my current system to water cooling, I need:

- A new full-tower size case
- Tubing and fittings
- Pumps
- Radiators
- CPU block
- GPU block

At that point, wouldn't it be a better idea to, I don't know, just upgrade to a i9-15900K/"Core Ultra whatever" and buy a 5080 instead?

Yeah well, ewaste is cheap that's true. Economics of things are definitely moving towards replace instead of buying longevity for more initial cost. Good for the economy.

Who told you that you need a full tower case to custom cool? I do twin radiators twin blocks full size reservoir in a < 15 litre case

There's even ~20 L cases that support full size ATX boards and PSU.

 

[Dr. Dro]

Yeah well, ewaste is cheap that's true. Economics of things are definitely moving towards replace instead of buying longevity for more initial cost. Good for the economy.

Who told you that you need a full tower case to custom cool? I do twin radiators twin blocks full size reservoir in a < 15 litre case

With my hardware I kind of need it. Not cramming an E-ATX board in a midtower, much less doing all the loop and radiators comfortably that way.

I'm using an open air bench right now, but if I'm going all the way might as well get something appropriate because once a watercooled setup is finished there's not much in the way of tearing it down casually, it's a weekend affair to do that

 

[thesmokingman]

it's a weekend affair to do that

Most loops I can hammer out in a few hours. The only thing that took me two days to build was a high end TR render machine. Though tbf fine tuning it and setting the pump/fan curves, cpu power curves takes a bit longer.

Build: 3970x, dual 2080ti, 8TB m.2 RAID = Render Monster

I'm building a render machine for work on a variety of applications. It will be an investment in reducing completion times in rendering and content creation workloads. This is a build for an old college buddy who works in the industry. On to the component list. Also, going to start with two...

hardforum.com

 

[dgianstefani]

Yeah unless you're doing hard tubing a custom loop is a couple hours, if that.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Yeah unless you're doing hard tubing a custom loop is a couple hours, if that.

Soft tubing an open loop has been pretty tempting to me but I do swap out hardware super frequently so it would probably be annoying.... As I get older I will probably keep hardware longer so it might start to make more sense as it is I rarely keep a gpu longer than 2 years in my primary system and I haven't owned a cpu that needed it somewhat since a 9900k but even that was debatable. I still prefer the look and the custom nature of it though.

 

[dgianstefani]

Just buy quick release fittings.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Just buy quick release fittings.

More to do with buying a water block for a card I will keep two years max and then put it into a system without a loop. Especially with how much decent blocks seem to cost these days.

 

[freeagent]

Curious, how many years did you get out of it?

14 months of solid service, after that it tapered off. After 2.5 years I was running back at stock voltage range, 1.35-1.375v. Had a brand new family back then so I was stuck.. I got 3 years out of it on an X5690 ES. I have it to my brother to use on his 7700K and it was useless..

 

[Kapone33]

Why do some people make AIOs seem like the bane of PC parts? I have a Thermalright Frio OCK, there is no mounting kit for AM4 or new Intel. As a result there is no use for that cooler. AIOs have their place. If we are going to start worrying about waste now. What do you think we have been doing for the last 40 years in this space? I will tell you that using an AIO with a watercooled GPU requires less resources in today's modern Processors. How many transistors does a 7900X have vs a 5900x and before that a 1700X. How many watts does a 14900K produce in heat output when running strong? As GPUs are something that improve about every 2 years from AMD or Nvidia the most academic thing to do is use Quick connect tubing. That allows you to take the old GPU out, slap the shroud back on it, get a new block on Day one to stretch the value and have no fan spin up. That means (as long as the block maker supports it) you can get the cheaper version. The best was those Sapphire cards that had a 4 pin fan header so that you could have control of the fans on the rad right from GPU data.

 

[sn2x]

1. Try to cool DDR5 RAM or PCIe5.0 SSD's with an AIO.
2. You can buy A Alphacool AIO for a CPU and integrate a GPU. You can also buy a GPU AiO from Alphacool.

It seems that most of you arent aware what and how can be cooled with an AiO. So this discussion will fail anyway. You cannot discuss about cornering with a car and never drove one before.

1. I am aware of what can be cooled with custom, I just don't see the point of water cooling RAM and SSDs, seems like a lot of added cost and little to no benefit.
2. Alpha Cool GPU AIOs seem too expensive. I wouldn't pay $200+ when it might not work on the GPU I upgrade to next year...

I'll stick with my less than $60 280mm AIO for the foreseeable future.

 

[The Von Matrices]

I have a custom loop in my own PC but if I'm helping a friend or family member spec out a PC then I'm recommending an AIO system every time. The lack of needing maintenance, ease of installation, and the lower chance to catastrophically damage something are all benefits to the novice PC builder. For my own purposes, I use a custom loop so I can use a gigantic radiator and use as slow of a fan speed as possible to reduce noise.

 

[AusWolf]

That used to be true in the days of Pentiums and Athlon XP's but hasn't been since around 2008 or so.

Extreme Overclocking (XOC) uses subzero methods these days which is WELL beyond what a custom loop is capable of no matter how you look at it.
I do agree with one point here, in that custom watercooling has always been a niche market because the majority always defaulted to air or in later days, AIO's which is nothing more than a "Package" watercooling system in itself.
Back then watercooling was thought of a something dangerous or even "Taboo" to a point.
All that quickly passed and here we are today with water/liquid cooled systems being commonly used now.

That's just you own opinion of it and, just because it's your own opinion that doesn't make it correct.

I did have a custom loop in my home once and it did really well, I still have the block and both pumps (MCP 655 "Vario" pumps) I got for it too which all of it still works fine to this day.
Yes, I had a need for it so I used it and never once regretted using it.

If I still had the place for it I'd run it yet again with my daily but that's not true anymore so instead I'm running an Ice Giant cooler and it's works great with my AM4 daily machine here.

So - The "Need" of it for a regular PC or anything else is up to the individual to decide. In your case you can't see a need for it and that's fine - You're intitled to that thought about it but it's not like your own view MUST be everyone else's too.

With that, there is no denying some chips these days run really warm to hot and I do know a custom setup, with the right parts can more than meet the need for it's cooling, plus you can do all the maintenance on the setup with ease vs cracking open an AIO for the most basic things like keeping the cooling system topped off.

In all honesty I don't care for or even like an AIO - I've actually won one before and gave it away because I just don't like them BUT at the same time, that's just me and only me.

My own like or dislike of them is not a requirement for anyone else to ditch an AIO if they already have one or to dismiss it if considering one to use.


I'll reiterate it here - The need for such is up to the user to decide - Not for you, me or anyone else to decide here.

Let's not confuse needs with wants. The fact that you had a custom loop and you liked it doesn't mean you needed one.

I drive a Fiesta ST which I absolutely love, and if it goes (when it goes?), I definitely don't want something under 160 bhp per tonne. Does that mean that I need a sporty car? Absolutely not.

A £50 air cooler can give you 98% of the performance of what you'd get with a custom loop, which is fine for most people. Saying that the extra 2% is absolutely necessary is an unreasonable expectation, something I'd class as a want, not a need.

 

[Ferrum Master]

I tried to read few pages... I can't get about what people argue here.

I do custom loop because it is more silent that way... I mean... many times more silent than any AIO or Air cooler simply because of the heat capacity and area, nothing can outdo that no matter how you look at it.