HDMI out from GPU revisited

[Dent1]

Sorry that I didn't clarify, but I was asking Dent about PCM, since he's the one that commented on it earlier as far as getting multi channel PCM in some games, but not others.

The bottom line is you need a soundcard with DDL and or DTS Connect. And if you ever get your HDMI out working on your video card use LPCM, Dolby Digital True HD or DTS HD Masters on your bluray discs. I think this is the best solution.

 

[Frag_Maniac]

The bottom line is you need a soundcard with DDL and or DTS Connect. And if you ever get your HDMI out working on your video card use LPCM, Dolby Digital True HD or DTS HD Masters on your bluray discs. I think this is the best solution.

Again, no need to go over what I've already said to be working for me. I have an external HT BD player on which I have no problem getting True HD and HD Master for movies. I am only talking GAME audio here. Earlier you said some games you could play in multi PCM, others not, thus my question as to how many games you could play in multi PCM.

Then there's the fact that you switched to a sound card and S/PDIF to avoid poor PCM audio in YT and other such formats, so your advocating PCM appears to be half hearted. Suffice it to say I'd just like to get an idea of roughly what percentage of games can actually be played via multi PCM though. The rest I'll decide for myself, because most everyone here is taking what I say out of context, and it's getting quite frustrating.

 

[Dent1]

Again, no need to go over what I've already said to be working for me. I have an external HT BD player on which I have no problem getting True HD and HD Master for movies. I am only talking GAME audio here. Earlier you said some games you could play in multi PCM, others not, thus my question as to how many games you could play in multi PCM.

Then there's the fact that you switched to a sound card and S/PDIF to avoid poor PCM audio in YT and other such formats, so your advocating PCM appears to be half hearted. Suffice it to say I'd just like to get an idea of roughly what percentage of games can actually be played via multi PCM though. The rest I'll decide for myself, because most everyone here is taking what I say out of context, and it's getting quite frustrating.

I've already answered this question. I've only played a hand full of games briefly in Multi channel PCM such as Tomb Raider Underworld, Crysis 2, and Max Payne 3. I can't comment on whether other games would have worked because I didn't value Multi channel PCM enough it consistently use it thereafter. Even when I was using my video card's HDMI output I usually opted for normal PCM and DTS: Neo upmix on my receiver which was far more accurate positional sound. Although the surround sound was weak it was the better option for me.

I've come from owning high end sound cards like the Auzentech X-Meridian which I regret selling and the X-Fi Prelude, so DDL and DTS connect wasn't new to me before I bought my Xonar DS. When I was using my video cards HDMI outputs I knew immediately what I was missing, but didn't want to spend big money on a high end card again which is why I went with the Xonar DS.

 

[H82LUZ73]

Frag I hate to tell you this but your A/V receiver has no inputs that say GAME/PC and that is one of your problems.

The second is this .. are you even plugging the HDMI on your AMD card in the right card? Try to switch it around and see if the AMD HDMI is plugged in.Without the A/V showing as default device It should only show your A/V in the Display Properties menu not under sound options.

3rd is this are you even switching the hdmi channels to what your pc is connected to ? say its on hdmi 3 are you clicking it to that ?

4, theirs no need of this going to TV crap to your A/V in the first place... just plug it to the A/V and switch the channels like above .

5, you will i repeat NEVER get Dolby games out from the PC to play in Dolby sound unless you buy a A/V Receiver that is Windows sound certified to decode it or run a decode to compress it .Hell mine don't even do it and mine is in my system specs.Only thing that runs is when i watch Blu -ray and in Cyberlink Power DVD 12 does it play sound out that is DTS-HD and Dolby True HD and that is because Power DVD has the codec to do that.I forgot to mention when i play a audio dvd encoded in Dolby 5.1 under power dvd it works too .

 

[Dent1]

Frag I hate to tell you this but your A/V receiver has no inputs that say GAME/PC and that is one of your problems.

2nd The second is this .. are you even plugging the HDMI on your AMD card in the right card? Try to switch it around and see if the AMD HDMI is plugged in.Without the A/V showing as default device It should only show your A/V in the Display Properties menu not under sound options.

3rd is this are you even switching the hdmi channels to what your pc is connected to ? say its on hdmi 3 are you clicking it to that ?

4, theirs no need of this going to TV crap to your A/V in the first place... just plug it to the A/V and switch the channels like above .

5, you will i repeat NEVER get Dolby games out from the PC to play in Dolby sound unless you buy a A/V Receiver that is Windows sound certified to decode it or run a decode to compress it .Hell mine don't even do it and mine is in my system specs.Only thing that runs is when i watch Blu -ray and in Cyberlink Power DVD 12 does it play sound out that is DTS-HD and Dolby True HD and that is because Power DVD has the codec to do that.I forgot to mention when i play a audio dvd encoded in Dolby 5.1 under power dvd it works too .

I agree with point 1, 2, 3 and 4. But disagree some of with 5.

Not getting Dolby in games has nothing to do with his receiver. His receiver supports all the standards expected from a quality entry level receiver. Dolby: TrueHD, Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby Digital DTS: DTS-HD HR, DTS, ES, 96/24, Neo:6.

The reason isn't getting Dolby in games specifically is because he doesn't have an encoder soundcard which encodes Dolby on the fly (DDL). This advice applies to you judging by your spec too.

 

[Frag_Maniac]

@Dent,
Well, technically, no, the first time you really didn't give me an idea of how many games you played on PCM, or if any or how many wouldn't play via PCM multi channel. You def gave me a better idea in this response, but it still seems odd that on the one hand you touted it as the best option earlier, only to now imply it's lackluster. In fact now it even seems you're saying it's surround in games isn't so good, though it's hard to tell what you meant on that.

The last thing I need to know from you is will the Xonar DS encode ALL games to DTS? Can it take virtually ANY game's stereo signal and DTS encode it? Reason I ask is if the consoles have a DTS Connect type chip that encodes DTS, why is it only certain console games are actually claimed to support DTS?

@H82LUZ73,
1. Odd that you say that because my last call to Yamaha resulted in the tech laughing at me when I suggested my problem might be at the AVR end when I asked why the FAQ for this model says to use an optical cable when connecting to a PC via HDMI. I'm also not understanding why you would say this as if it's the main problem, then go on to suggest a few other things as if it's not. Why would you even suggest those other things if you think my AVR is not capable of HDMI audio from a PC without a Game/PC HDMI input? If that were the case, the other points would be moot.

2. Am I "plugging the HDMI on (my) AMD card in the right card"? This comment doesn't even make sense. If you're asking if I'm plugging the HDMI CABLE into the proper place (EG video card HDMI port), do you REALLY need to ask such a thing? Do you take me for a friggin MORON? Of COURSE I'm plugging in to the HDMI port on the video card, in fact it's the ONLY HDMI port on the entire PC system, and if you'd been following what has been said, you'd know that.

3. LOL, and yes, I do make sure the AVR is switched to the proper HDMI port when attempting a pass thru from the AVR to the TV. In fact I recently mentioned having gotten the video pass thru to work. That is not even possible without the AVR being set to the right port.

4. Self explanatory, and again, you weren't paying attention to the prior posts already having mentioned that.

5. Dent is of course correct about this. It has nothing to do with the AVR and everything to do with a lack of DD encoding at the PC end, and as I already stated, I'd prefer DTS anyway, so I'm not sure why you even said Dolby.

You know what's odd guys, this is a tech oriented forum with some fairly knowledgeable members, but one thing it seems many erroneously assume is that anyone asking for help is a buffoon that doesn't know squat. One member here was recently caught labeling TPU in general as a "tard forum", but more often than not I find the comments from those trying to help not making sense. There's often too many assumptions, oversights, and misinterpretations being made for the responders to be carrying such a smug attitude. Sorry, that's just my take after many frustrations having to repeat myself, but thanks for the replies anyhow.

 

[Dent1]

@Dent,
Well, technically, no, the first time you really didn't give me an idea of how many games you played on PCM, or if any or how many wouldn't play via PCM multi channel. You def gave me a better idea in this response, but it still seems odd that on the one hand you touted it as the best option earlier, only to now imply it's lackluster. In fact now it even seems you're saying it's surround in games isn't so good, though it's hard to tell what you meant on that.

The last thing I need to know from you is will the Xonar DS encode ALL games to DTS? Can it take virtually ANY game's stereo signal and DTS encode it? Reason I ask is if the consoles have a DTS Connect type chip that encodes DTS, why is it only certain console games are actually claimed to support DTS?

Not sure how I gave that impression that it was my preference. Throughout I've been talking about how the speech doesn't always come from the center speaker and dodgy ambient noises. I even said you wouldn't benefit from PCM over Dolby Digital Live as the audio quality in MP3 and games is generally too poor to take advantage of PCM's maximum frequencies and bitrates.

Yes using DTS Connect on the Xonar will encode all stereo signals to DTS 5.1. You have to use the DTS Neo: PC™ and DTS Interactive together within the drivers.

I'd think the console games which don't claim to support DTS would claim to support Dolby Digital instead, conflict of interest to mention competing technologies on the same box (different for DVDs and motion studios are required to by it's governance). Maybe they have to ask permission to display DTS or Dolby Logo on the box or pay royalty. Maybe DTs or Dolby have a deal with Sony to use their encoder on specific titles. I really don't know I can only speculate.

I think what H82LUZ73 meant was, when connecting your video card to your receiver, the receivers may not be setup to switch inputs automatically upon connecting a new device. You may have to go into it's configuration (with the remote) and manually assign the physical buttons (BD DVD, TV, CD) to the associated HDMI port and make it active. There might be further options elsewhere in the menu which dictate the behaviour of the HDMI input.

@ H82LUZ73. You don't need a button saying GAME/PC. All the buttons on the receiver are exactly the same regardless of the name printed on it, it just to help you find the relevant HDMI port when you're at the back connecting it up. The names on the button are interchangeable and can be renamed something completely different within the configuration.

 

[Frag_Maniac]

Not sure how I gave that impression that it was my preference. Throughout I've been talking about how the speech doesn't always come from the center speaker and dodgy ambient noises. I even said you wouldn't benefit from PCM over Dolby Digital Live as the audio quality in MP3 and games is generally too poor to take advantage of PCM's maximum frequencies and bitrates.

I thought you'd said somewhere that PCM is best option if you can get it, but maybe you said it for other source material like DVD. I've been trying to keep the topic on the subject of game audio only to no avail.

Anyways, it seems somewhere games were mentioned as always having no better than stereo PCM signal, which is often 5.1 capable given the proper encoding/decoding, but as well you're saying some games can actually play in multi channel PCM, but I don't see how that's possible if the signal is stereo and needs encoding/decoding, because that typically involves one of the licensed formats like DD or DTS.

Anyway, I guess it's moot if PCM multi yields poor center and surround even in games. At first I got the impression you were saying that was the case just in YouTube vids and such. I can also see why the lossless bandwidth is moot since all games have compressed audio to begin with. It seems some here in the past have over stated the value of multi channel PCM in games in both audio quality and positional audio.

I probably should have jumped on the DS when it was on MIR for only $33. I held off because I wasn't sure if I wanted a PCI card without knowing if I'd eventually go Crossfire. A used PCI slot can cause conflicts space wise with things like that. It may drop again, but now it's getting to the point where limited stock might actually drive the price higher. I don't know if they even make them anymore.

 

[Dent1]

Anyways, it seems somewhere games were mentioned as always having no better than stereo PCM signal, which is often 5.1 capable given the proper encoding/decoding, but as well you're saying some games can actually play in multi channel PCM, but I don't see how that's possible if the signal is stereo and needs encoding/decoding, because that typically involves one of the licensed formats like DD or DTS.

The signal isn't always stereo. It could very well 5 or 7 audio channels. It just comes out as stereo because of the bandwidth limitations of SPDIF. HDMI doesn't have the same bandwidth limitation and hence why multi channel PCM is a possibility.

Also before HDMI became mainstream people were enjoying multi channel PCM on analogue out which also boasts higher bandwidth than SPDIF.

 

[Frag_Maniac]

Well given the way most game audio is anymore and the hit and miss success many have with HDMI audio from the PC, I can see why sound cards are still a viable market niche.

 

[HitmanSamus]

Hey There,

I hope this thread is not dead... looks to me it is but here goes... I have the same setup as you... Exept the video card... I have the GTX 680 and I also have the Yamaha RX-V367 AVR. It works very well with my GTX 680... I have a few quirks though... first of which, my TV seems to be detected in my video card control panel and not my AVR... although i do get surround sound in 5.1 i doubt my yamaha is using its codec to output my 5.1 as it seems to be using my tv's codecs... Also, when I have music / games playing and I hear the sound on all speakers but the minute I power down my TV, the sound cuts for a bit then seems to switch to my AVR in which I hear a notable difference in sound quality... its twice as better than my TV's audio codecs.... Did you manage to have your AVR detected with your GPU? I also though of maybe buying a DVI to HDMI adpater and plug my HDMI cable to my tv with that adapter then pluging my other HDMI cable to the HDMI out then to my AVR without having it connect with the TV whatsoever

 

[eidairaman1]

Any thread that hasnt been visited in 2 months is considered dead

 

[Mussels]

short version is that greater than stereo from HDMI is generally a problem, for the simple reason that a lot of receivers only support pre-encoded data - not LPCM.

so itll work fine for DVD and blu ray movies, but everything else goes to crap without very specific hardware.