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Help me cool my PC!

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#1
Hi guys! Right now I'm looking at redoing my cooling setup; two 140mm intakes in the front and a push-pull outtake on the Corsair H60 120mm. I just bought a Fractal S24 240mm cooler and I'm debating where to go. I am considering putting the new cooler in the front with the included fans as intakes. Then I'll take the 140s and use one as an intake on the bottom and the other on the rear as an exhaust. Another option I'm considering is keeping the 140s in the front and using the included radiator fans as exhausts on the block. Then I could buy another two 140s and like before put them on the bottom and back. Last but least, I could throw the cooler on the top as exhaust and keep the 140s on the front. I want to maintain positive pressure if at all possible so I can reduce the incoming dust. Any feedback is appreciated.
 
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#2
If I were you, I would put the two 140s in the front for intake ,and then have a push or pull exhaust over the radiator. If your CPU is warmer than it should be, simply reverse the set up ,and intake with either a push or a pull over the radiator, and exhaust with the 2- 140 mm fans at the front or top. I use bold for "or" because p+p is a wasted fan, one or the other is sufficient except for a VERY specific set of conditions
 
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#3
If I were you, I would put the two 140s in the front for intake ,and then have a push or pull exhaust over the radiator. If your CPU is warmer than it should be, simply reverse the set up ,and intake with either a push or a pull over the radiator, and exhaust with the 2- 140 mm fans at the front or top. I use bold for "or" because p+p is a wasted fan, one or the other is sufficient except for a VERY specific set of conditions
I see, thank you. Do you have any advice how either of those setups would affect my Vega GPU? That thing struggles against heat, so I am think a bottom intake blowing towards it should help somewhat.
 
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#4
I see, thank you. Do you have any advice how either of those setups would affect my Vega GPU? That thing struggles against heat, so I am think a bottom intake blowing towards it should help somewhat.
I've never personally owned that particular video card, but if it is a concern in terms of the temperatures it generates, then you should either have an exhaust fan near it ,or an equally powerful exhaust set up to keep up with it. If you are using 2- 140 mm for intake, and two 120 mm for exhaust, you could switch that set up around, if you think the heat inside the case is an issue, by increasing exhaust strength you may find temperatures to be more suitable. Ultimately there's no right or wrong answer, it's fairly easy to test the set up ,one way or the other, I'd recommend trying it the way I suggested , see if the heat is a problem, if it is switch it up to a different set up
 
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#5
Wait wait

Have you checked another factors, like airflow, thermalpaste, and how you applied them

Push pull is the better way since it maintain the airflow, but if i have to choose, i prefer push
 
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#6
I've never personally owned that particular video card, but if it is a concern in terms of the temperatures it generates, then you should either have an exhaust fan near it ,or an equally powerful exhaust set up to keep up with it. If you are using 2- 140 mm for intake, and two 120 mm for exhaust, you could switch that set up around, if you think the heat inside the case is an issue, by increasing exhaust strength you may find temperatures to be more suitable. Ultimately there's no right or wrong answer, it's fairly easy to test the set up ,one way or the other, I'd recommend trying it the way I suggested , see if the heat is a problem, if it is switch it up to a different set up
Will do on the testing when I have time to. Vegas are easily thermal throttled or at least the blower types are. I'm concerned that the hotter air coming from the radiator will cause the temps to rise, that's why I want a fresh intake beneath it. I've even considered getting a Meshify C case instead of my R5 to see if the extra airflow will help. Right now the only thing that really causes noise in my build is the Vega 56 when it spins up past 2K RPM.
 
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#7
Push has advantage at lower rpms... up to about 1500 rpm. Pull has an advantage at 1800 and above .... its generally a tossup in the middle but will depend upon specific pairings . Adding an additional fan will increase air flow from 10 - 30% depending on the setup and speeds.... (all this per martinsliquidlab published testing).

Couple of other water cooling rules....

Min pump flow = 1.0 gpm ... more has minimal impact
Never mix aluminum and copper materials
RAD fans ALWAYS blow in... no exceptions...ever
Air blowing in must be greater than air blowing out
Inefficient aluminum rads require extreme speed (noisy) fans

The H100i / Kraken X61 was measured to have a flow of only 0.11 gpm. The Swiftch AIO is > 1.0 gpm

If you are familiar with boating, you have heard the term "sacrificiail anode" where by the anodesorrodes away and gives it's life fo other metal components don't corrode. In a water loop, the aluminum rad is the sacrificial anode and over time the sacrificed ions form crud which builds up in the water block channels.

Outiside air is going to be cooler than the inside air.... with 33C coolant, what wil cool it better 23C air or 26C air ? if the concern is getting heat out of your case, what are you trying to protect ... is there anything in there that is bothered by 26C ?
Corsair's published instructions say "For best performance" have the fans on radiators as intakes. I don't know why but most CLC users feel they know more than the folks who sell and support it or the OEM who makes it. Prolly because of 8th grade earth science when we learned 'hot air rises' .. it does, but not when fan blowing other way.

As I understand it, Option 1 is ...

-2 fans on rad air blowing in behind intake filters; the flters can increase air flow by up to 30% so EF (Equivalent Fans = 2 x 0.7 = 1.4 EFs
-2 fans in P/P blowing out no restriction EF = 1 + 20% = 1.2 fans out
-1 fan blowing out EF = 1.0
-1 fan blowing in EF= 0.7

Total In = 1.4 + 0.7 = 2.1 EF
Total Out = 1.2 + 1.0 = 2.2 EF

Granted the 30% is an estimate based upon testing w/ moderate dust on filters and yours may be better or worse ... but you have slightly negative case pressure

Under Option 2

Total In = 1.4 (front) + 0.7 (bottom) = 2.1 EF
Total out = 2.0 (cooler) + 1.0 (rear) = 3.0 EF

You have negative pressure. The problem w/ NP is not so much the dust, but when it exists, its is inatke air comming thru case openings that balances the NP created by the fans. The most likely place is the rear of the case where those slotted card covers are and that big rear grille ... and what is the source of ai back there ? ... all that hot air exhausted by your 650 watts PSU and 300 watt GFX card ... you are now sucking that hot air exhaust right back into your case. This is very easy to test with a $29 fog machine on amazon.

Had we communicated earlier, i would have suggested a non aluminum AIO but not a CLC from EK or Swiftech with a GFX card waterblock and extra rad in front. But too late for that. With what ha planning....

-New cooler on top blowing in as per Corsair's instructions.
-(2) Fans in front blowing in EF = 1.4
-(2) fans in front blowing in EF = 1.4
-(1) fan in rear blowing out EF = 1.0

That's 2.8 blowing in cool air and 1.0 blowing out at top rear with 1.8 fans worth of air being forced out thru rear case grille leaving you with significant positive case pressure, no dust, and more importantly, no way for hot card / PSU exhaust to get back in. Could add two on bottom if ya wanna go crazy (blowing in)
 
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#8
PC guts.jpg


This is what I ended up doing. Hope it doesn't look too jacked up :laugh:
 

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#9
View attachment 104449

This is what I ended up doing. Hope it doesn't look too jacked up :laugh:
not that bad, but, look at this:
1532628921890.png


you can add 3 more fans to improve airflow lad,slim ones for space save, at least the secondary bottom one, for the rad use the one you like the most,
 
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#10
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#11
View attachment 104449

This is what I ended up doing. Hope it doesn't look too jacked up :laugh:
Not saying it's wrong, but the radiator on top with fans in push (exhaust) would be cooler, and the warm air from the radiator wouldn't be blowing in towards the GPU.
 
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#12
Not saying it's wrong, but the radiator on top with fans in push (exhaust) would be cooler, and the warm air from the radiator wouldn't be blowing in towards the GPU.
I considered using the AIO as an exhaust, but I want to try to keep the sound-proofing panels in place. I would have to open the top up, losing that, not to mention dust would get in easier on the top while the PC is off. I live in the desert and dust is fierce here. I think having the bottom fan pulling air up into the case is a good compromise.

not that bad, but, look at this:
you can add 3 more fans to improve airflow lad,slim ones for space save, at least the secondary bottom one, for the rad use the one you like the most,
I have 2 fans on the radiator pushing air into it, though you can't see it. I suppose I could add more fans, but I want to observe temps for a bit before I consider adding more.

Thats almost the exact same set-up I had in my old Air 540, with the added benefit of 2x 140mm exhaust fans at the top, neveranottaproblemo :D
The Air 540 looks like a neat case!
 
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#13
Heat rises.

Two fans at top exhausting should help a lot. That is what I did and saw a huge performance in my GS1000 case.
 
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#14
Heat does not rise, heat is an energy not a substance. Hot air will rise in your case if you have no out take fans and cooler air coming in. If you do have out take fans then hot air will go in the direction you send it.
 
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#15
Very true. But I found that associated we're the VRMs are, a lot of heat accumulated at the top of the case. So having had fans at top, helped me.
 

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#16
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#17
If heat does NOT rise, then please explain why practically every single case mfgr make cases with provisions for fans, or at least some form of venting, at the top of their cases ???????

Answer: Cause CPU's and VRM's generally generate ALOT of heat, and also they are normally located closer to the top of the case areas than other components :D

I have "been there, done that" many many times over the past 10 years with a huge number of cases big & small, and it ALWAYS works better with fans exhausting hot air out thru the top of the case....
 
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#18
If heat does NOT rise, then please explain why practically every single case mfgr make cases with provisions for fans, or at least some form of venting, at the top of their cases ???????

Answer: Cause CPU's and VRM's generally generate ALOT of heat, and also they are normally located closer to the top of the case areas than other components :D

I have "been there, done that" many many times over the past 10 years with a huge number of cases big & small, and it ALWAYS works better with fans exhausting hot air out thru the top of the case....
Airflow direction isn't that important, what's more important is *sufficient* airflow and it going in ONE direction and using the principle of Cold intake hot outtake. Whichever case edge it is. Front to back works just as well as high up the back to front. The problem with Top exhaust is a curve in your airflow direction from front > top. It works too, but hardly any better - unless you have insufficient airflow because then yes, heat does rise out the top more easily.
 
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#20
Hi guys! Right now I'm looking at redoing my cooling setup; two 140mm intakes in the front and a push-pull outtake on the Corsair H60 120mm. I just bought a Fractal S24 240mm cooler and I'm debating where to go. I am considering putting the new cooler in the front with the included fans as intakes. Then I'll take the 140s and use one as an intake on the bottom and the other on the rear as an exhaust. Another option I'm considering is keeping the 140s in the front and using the included radiator fans as exhausts on the block. Then I could buy another two 140s and like before put them on the bottom and back. Last but least, I could throw the cooler on the top as exhaust and keep the 140s on the front. I want to maintain positive pressure if at all possible so I can reduce the incoming dust. Any feedback is appreciated.
Try placing the fans you have in various positions and then measure temps? That will tell you where they work best.
I know that's what I'd do.
 
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#21
You are feeding your GPU hot air that is coming off of the radiator that way, What I would suggest you do, is put the rad up top with fans pushing hot air out of the case, and having 2 140s at the front feeding cold intake for both your card and the rad.
 

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#22
Since your using a Radeon Vega with stock cooler I suggest using the Fractal AIO in the top of the case.

Set the fans to exhaust out the top arranged as follows. Case -> Fans -> Radiator. The fans will pull the air through the radiator and exhaust them out the chassis. The benefit to this is that with the fans pulling air through the dust will accumulate on the radiator more than the fans making cleaning and maintenance easier. Use the two fans in front and one fan on bottom as intakes. This will give you three fans operating as intakes and three fans operating as exhaust. While it wont be perfect airflow should be in relative balance.

The fractal Celsisus S24 is not that loud. Its just on the custom of acceptable at 45 dBA at maximum fan RPM. That is on an open test bench. A typical chassis will reduce those dBA numbers by 2 dBA for a max noise of 43. Your sound dampening material in the rest of the case is good for about 1 dBA. As such the loudest component in your system will be the Radeon GPU. By putting the AIO up top you will avoid pushing the warm air from the radiator to the GPU which will drive up those temps overtime making the card louder as a result.

The top sound proof panels will do little to mitigate the GPU noise since that will find its way out the back anyway. The side panels will muffle the fan noise which is the best you can hope for from these types of chassis'.

I say this having used 4-5 sound dampened chassis'. The Fractal Define XL, Define R4, Nanoxia, Deep Silence 1, among others. The results remain the same biggest benefit for noise reduction is the sound dampened side panel. Even then the benefits are minimal do to the multitude of exhaust areas, and cut outs making it a bit moot. So just go with the outline above and your airflow will flow naturally from bottom and font to the top and back. Mitigating turbulence and dust accumulation in harder to clean areas.

View attachment 104449

This is what I ended up doing. Hope it doesn't look too jacked up :laugh:
 
Last edited:

peche

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#23
I have 2 fans on the radiator pushing air into it, though you can't see it. I suppose I could add more fans, but I want to observe temps for a bit before I consider adding more.
you can use push/pull on any rad that have 2 sided screw holes, no matter the possition of the rad, i mean if its front, top or case rear panel, push/pull ensures the airflow over the rad's fins, helping to maximize airflow direction and pulling the hot air outside so mounted in front you still have the chance if the rad has the holes,
 
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#24
like peche said ,i have a similar setup had 4 fans at first and still had problems(2 in 2 out) i bought 2 more so now i have 6(3 in 3 out) front and side in and back and uper 2 ones out and i don`t have any more problems with overclock`s ;)
 
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#25
Temps are looking good so far. At night time when my house is a cool 24C, I see the idle temps average 28C on all the cores. As far as the Vega, temps average at 30C while idle. Gaming temps are all over the place and I notice it correlates more to the fan curve than anything else. The card will reach the target of 75C easily at 100% utilization at 2200RPM or less of fan speed. However, when the fan kicks into high gear (2800), the temps will cool down another 10C and the process will repeat itself. I wish Wattman had more fine tuning for the fan curves.

curve.PNG
 
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